Marat Safin: Nadal more impressive than Federer

Backspin1183

Backspin1183

Talk Tennis Guru
He said it. Nadal more epic than Federer.
@MichaelNadal


Marat Safin believes Rafael Nadal is a more impressive tennis player than Roger Federer because of how much harder he has to work than the 19-time Grand Slam champion.

The former world No. 1 has watched on as the legendary duo topped the rankings once more in 2017 – having split all four majors between them – but remains more astounded by Nadal’s achievements.

Safin believes Federer’s career is built upon outrageous natural talent, while Nadal has been forced to fight for everything in his career.

https://www.google.co.in/amp/metro....re-impressive-than-roger-federer-7110944/amp/
 
In the same article, he also says: "If we look at the top 10, nothing has changed since I retired in 2009."

Sure, Marat, there you go:

2009 YE rankings:
1 Roger Federer
2 Rafael Nadal
3 Novak Djokovic
4 Andy Murray
5 Juan Martin Del Potro
6 Nikolay Davydenko
7 Andy Roddick
8 Robin Söderling
9 Fernando Verdasco
10 Jo-Wilfried Tsonga

2017 YE rankings:
1 Rafalel Nadal
2 Roger Federer
3 Grigor Dimitrov
4 Alexander Zverev
5 Dominic Thiem
6 Marin Cilic
7 David Goffin
8 Jack Sock
9 Stanislas Wawrinka
10 PCB

Is it me, or maybe there was a bit of change past the first two guys? "Nothing has changed" might be pushing it, like, a tiny bit, maybe... ;)
 
This talent vs hard work trope has been beaten to death.

Nadal is talented too - otherwise he wouldn't be an ATG; there have been plenty of grinders in the history of the sport, and not all of them have 16 slams to their name.

And Federer works extremely hard behind the scenes to make it look easy on the court - otherwise there is no way he can hang with other athletes that are working their butt off; logical really if you apply a bit of brain power.

Of course Safin can have his preference as to whose style of play he prefers, but to say Nadal's season is objectively more impressive based simply on effort expended is stupid IMO
 
nikdom said:
This talent vs hard work trope has been beaten to death.

Nadal is talented too - otherwise he wouldn't be an ATG; there have been plenty of grinders in the history of the sport, and not all of them have 16 slams to their name.

And Federer works extremely hard behind the scenes to make it look easy on the court - otherwise there is no way he can hang with other athletes that are working their butt off; logical really if you apply a bit of brain power.

Of course Safin can have his preference as to whose style of play he prefers, but to say Nadal's season is objectively more impressive based simply on effort expended is stupid IMO
Click to expand...

Exactly. Maybe Safin likes to see himself in Federer, the real "no work, only talent" player.
 
11_11_safin_press_37.jpg
 
This is really stupid logic. Anyone who's read Matthew Syed's Bounce would know that the role of talent in sport is debatable anyway. And who says Fed hasn't had to work hard to get where he is? He had to leave home and cope with an entirely new language at 14, he had to work very hard to attain mental composure on court and battle his own temperament (a battle which I suspect costs him more than we realise but that's getting a bit speculative). In contrast Nadal has always been in a very supportive environment in terms of being surrounded by his family and people who speak his language.

That's certainly not to deny Nadal's incredible hard work in achieving what he has done, but just to show what stupid reasoning this is. Perhaps if Safin had shown anything like the dedication of these two he would have a few more titles to his name,no?
 
Last edited:
Nadal is also a very talented individual. The only reason people are underrating his talent is his supremely physical game, which may mask some of his talent because he relies way too much on it.

But make no mistake, Nadal is extremely talented and he wouldn't be where he is without talent. Just look at Borna Coric. Plays a physical style of play without the talent to back it up and he is nowhere near Nadal.

Likewise, Federer has worked his behind off to get to where he is. Talent alone can only get you so far. Look at Kyrgios.
 
Well there's a lot of natural talent for Nadal too, playing lefty despite being a natural righty, a body that is both fast and has a lot of potential for power, which I'm sure he worked hard for, but a lot of people work harder and never achieved Nadal's results. And we can talk more about Nadal's genetics when his family has multiple professional sportsmen. Meanwhile, we look at Federer's dad... he does not look like a sports person. Both were quite strong in tennis at a young age, but Nadal achieved his first major results long before Federer did, in terms of age.

So is Nadal more genetically gifted, lucky to have the heritage that he possesses, making him "naturally talented"? Maybe. Is Federer only good at the game by way of concentrated effort, building everything in his game from the ground up, carefully examining every part of his game and putting in immense effort to make his tennis game the best ? Maybe.

Whats most likely though is that not even Nadal and Federer know exactly what they're doing that makes them win so much. In reality they've just managed to be marginally better than their opponents so many times, maybe it comes down to luck, or the invincible aura that other people build up around them, and proceed to bow down to.
 
Last edited:
kOaMaster said:
Safin never really liked Federer and vice versa I assume ;)
Click to expand...
i never got that impression.

he adores Federer, or at least his talent, which he holds above any other tennis player ever.

also, Federer fans really shouldn't take Safin's statement as a slight. if anything it diminishes Nadal to an extent, likening him to some savage on the court who only relies on physicality, which is absurd.
 
merlinpinpin said:
In the same article, he also says: "If we look at the top 10, nothing has changed since I retired in 2009."

Sure, Marat, there you go:

2009 YE rankings:
1 Roger Federer
2 Rafael Nadal
3 Novak Djokovic
4 Andy Murray
5 Juan Martin Del Potro
6 Nikolay Davydenko
7 Andy Roddick
8 Robin Söderling
9 Fernando Verdasco
10 Jo-Wilfried Tsonga

2017 YE rankings:
1 Rafalel Nadal
2 Roger Federer
3 Grigor Dimitrov
4 Alexander Zverev
5 Dominic Thiem
6 Marin Cilic
7 David Goffin
8 Jack Sock
9 Stanislas Wawrinka
10 PCB

Is it me, or maybe there was a bit of change past the first two guys? "Nothing has changed" might be pushing it, like, a tiny bit, maybe... ;)
Click to expand...

If Djokovic and Murray had full year, they are 3rd and 4th in the worst case scenario. Del Potro is still top 10, Cilic was top 15 in 2009 while Tsonga is top 15 now. 6 from top 15 in 2009 are still there while another 4 have retired. Its pretty much the same.
 
DRII said:
i never got that impression.

he adores Federer, or at least his talent, which he holds above any other tennis player ever.

also, Federer fans really shouldn't take Safin's statement as a slight. if anything it diminishes Nadal to an extent, likening him to some savage on the court who only relies on physicality, which is absurd.
Click to expand...
Definitely. Nadal is extremely talented. People get the wrong idea about his talent because he has the tendency to rely too much on his physical gifts. But he is supremely talented, otherwise he would be just another Muster.
 
This is Safin's opinion, and he's entitled to it, but some of the stuff he says here is a real head scratcher. He even talks about Nadal sweating more :confused: which is just baffling since it really has nothing to do with the issue at hand. Plus if Nadal "never" gets tired doesn't that mean tennis is harder for Federer if we assume he gets tired? Also, he's 5 years older so he has to work harder to combat that. Lots of counterarguments to this to say the least.
 
merlinpinpin said:
BTW, the same Safin thinks that Fed and Nadal will split 2018 again, that Murray will have his ups and down but won't be able to challenge them if they're fit, and that "Djokovic won't return to the top level full stop".

http://metro.co.uk/2017/11/27/novak...r-federer-in-2018-claims-marat-safin-7111022/

Make of that what you will... ;)
Click to expand...
Safin is direct and speaks his mind. This was a big part of his appeal while he was on tour and he clearly hasn't lost his blunt candor.

That said, it's his opinion and nothing more. The Djokovic comment is interesting. I think the fact that Safin beat Djokovic at Wimbledon in 2008 in straight sets, when Djoko was already a proven force on tour, left Safin permanently unimpressed with Djokovic's game/talents, to some extent.
 
This is Safin's opinion, and he's entitled to it, but some of the stuff he says here is a real head scratcher. He even talks about Nadal sweating more :confused: which is just baffling since it really has nothing to do with the issue at hand. Plus if Nadal "never" gets tired doesn't that mean tennis is harder for Federer if we assume he gets tired? Also, he's 5 years older. Lots of counterarguments to this to say the least.
 
I don't understand the notion that if you have to work harder for a goal then you somehow deserve it more. It's basically a diss at players who were born with supernatural God-given talent.
 
tennis_pro said:
I don't understand the notion that if you have to work harder for a goal then you somehow deserve it more. It's basically a diss at players who were born with supernatural God-given talent.
Click to expand...
I'm a true blue GOAT fanatic. I believe if you have to work harder for something you deserve it less.
 
He was basically suggesting that Nadal had to work harder as his slams have come in stronger era. Having himself played in the era he surely knows strength of that era. Sometimes he must be pinching himself, hell it was so easy that even I did it :-).
 
ForumMember said:
He was basically suggesting that Nadal had to work harder as his slams have come in stronger era. Having himself played in the era he surely knows strength of that era. Sometimes he must be pinching himself, hell it was so easy that even I did it :).
Click to expand...

It's a circular argument. If Nadal had to work hard to beat Federer then Federer had to have worked *harder* to beat the improved Nadal no?

The reality is that any time we have multiple champions like we do today with Nadal, Federer, Djokovic (Murray, Stan JMDP to a certain extent, keeping slam winners in mind) - they are all pushing each other in a way which is more complicated than a simple, unchanging dynamic over time. There is action, then reaction, re-adjustment, ups and downs in individual performances.... it's not so clear cut as some fans would like to see it.

In math, you are doing what would be called Partial Differentiation - keeping multiple variable factors artificially constant to analyze a single aspect - in this case, Nadal's efforts.

Anyone having watched the sport over the past 15 years can see how there were phases - Federer was at the top first, then Nadal came in as a disrupter. Djokovic played second fiddle to both these guys for the longest time before he went into his own God mode. Then Nadal had to readjust to Djokovic's successful tactics against him. Federer meanwhile has tooled his game and came back to purge his prior demons with Nadal vis-a-vis their matchup dynamic and hopefully we'll get to see a new Djokovic-Fed dynamic in 2018.
 
ForumMember said:
He was basically suggesting that Nadal had to work harder as his slams have come in stronger era. Having himself played in the era he surely knows strength of that era. Sometimes he must be pinching himself, hell it was so easy that even I did it :).
Click to expand...

It's a circular argument. If Nadal had to work hard to beat Federer then Federer had to have worked *harder* to beat the improved Nadal no?

The reality is that any time we have multiple champions like we do today with Nadal, Federer, Djokovic (Murray, Stan JMDP to a certain extent, keeping slam winners in mind) - they are all pushing each other in a way which is more complicated than a simple, unchanging dynamic over time. There is action, then reaction, re-adjustment, ups and downs in individual performances.... it's not so clear cut as some fans would like to see it.

In math, you are doing what would be called Partial Differentiation - keeping multiple variable factors artificially constant to analyze a single aspect - in this case, Nadal's efforts.

Anyone having watched the sport over the past 15 years can see how there were phases - Federer was at the top first, then Nadal came in as a disrupter. Djokovic played second fiddle to both these guys for the longest time before he went into his own God mode. Then Nadal had to readjust to Djokovic's successful tactics against him. Federer meanwhile has tooled his game and came back to purge his prior demons with Nadal vis-a-vis their matchup dynamic and hopefully we'll get to see a new Djokovic-Fed dynamic in 2018.
 
Was Safin drinking directly from the bottle with vodka, when he brought up "he is sweating more and does not get tired" in defence of his argument?

How about Nadal's speed and stamina?

If he is so impressed with natural gifts maybe think where his argument is going in regard to what he admires in Nadal, no?

Or was it a backhanded way of saying that Nadal's speed and stamina are not naturally acquired?

:eek:
 
Backspin1183 said:
He said it. Nadal more epic than Federer.
@MichaelNadal


Marat Safin believes Rafael Nadal is a more impressive tennis player than Roger Federer because of how much harder he has to work than the 19-time Grand Slam champion.

The former world No. 1 has watched on as the legendary duo topped the rankings once more in 2017 – having split all four majors between them – but remains more astounded by Nadal’s achievements.

Safin believes Federer’s career is built upon outrageous natural talent, while Nadal has been forced to fight for everything in his career.

https://www.google.co.in/amp/metro....re-impressive-than-roger-federer-7110944/amp/
Click to expand...
Safin never kicked Nadal's ass at 2005 Australian Open. Federer doesn't faze him
 
LOL. Safin strikes again. He said two years that the level was higher when he was playing and it is easier now to win a GS. Now today he says "Today’s tennis is more physical and fast. Players have less time to think and it’s a good thing.’ :confused: The guy is all over the place so I wouldn't put too much stock into what he says.
 
ZiggyStardust said:
Oh Marat, if outrageous natural talent was all it took.

Safin is one of the only guys in tennis history whose right there with Federer, talent wise.
Click to expand...

Maybe so, but I always find that this is grossly overstated on TTW. Everybody that rates Safin (usually to a ridiculous degree) uses AO 2005 as some kind of barometer for the challenge that Safin could've would've should've presented to Federer, but Federer really should've won that match if you look back on a few crucial points that on most days Federer would win. Not only that, he was better on clay, so much better on grass, and in all likelihood would've been better at the USO even against this mythical motivated Safin. To be clear, this isn't an attack on you.

I'm not denying that Safin wasted most of his talent, but outrageous speculations that he would've been a double digit slam winner (sometimes seen around here) or taken a bunch away from Federer are just crazy speculations that nostalgic people use to overrate him in the first place. Guys like Nadal and Djokovic are more talented (especially in the all around sense) than Safin IMO. For example, both of them are faster, both are mentally tougher, and both have more stamina than Safin for starters. Two of them have a better FH (yes two of them) and Djokovic's BH is certainly in the same ballpark (with Nadal's usually being underrated) Djokovic might also have a better serve, and Nadal's serving is pretty good when he locks it in.

The reason I'm comparing the 3 being that the people that talk up Safin here will often say he's more "naturally talented" than both, which obviously I'm taking issue with. Again, I don't deny that Safin wasted a fair amount of talent by not working hard, but the extent that some on this site go with their predictions are far fetched to say the least.
 
Before Nadal, seeing a Spaniard on the net (when he somehow finds himself there) was a comic highlight reel. Ok, Rafa is no Fed volleying, but he's better than 90% of the top players in that department.
 
Tennis_Hands said:
Was Safin drinking directly from the bottle with vodka, when he brought up "he is sweating more and does not get tired" in defence of his argument?

How about Nadal's speed and stamina?

If he is so impressed with natural gifts maybe think where his argument is going in regard to what he admires in Nadal, no?

Or was it a backhanded way of saying that Nadal's speed and stamina are not naturally acquired?

:eek:
Click to expand...

I doubt he's thought it through to that extent. His whole argument lacks logic. And how would anyone know whether Nadal has worked harder than Fed or vice versa. Even if you could decide on a criteria for that who would know both of them well enough to make the assessment? Nobody.
 
''Federer brought new things into tennis. The way he plays, his skills, he has an all-around game, just a beautiful tennis. He upgraded the level of tennis so the new generation grew up on this level. The rising stars have better shots, are more physical, more skills. Kyrgios plays so powerful and Nishikori is very good'. Safin said that tennis is more physical now.

This is from 2016.

Safin has always been cognizant of what Fed brings to the table - skills and talent that are unparalleled in tennis history.

Safin is also amazed how a grinder like Rafa has been able to keep the gap close to Fed within a tier.
 
nikdom said:
This talent vs hard work trope has been beaten to death.

Nadal is talented too - otherwise he wouldn't be an ATG; there have been plenty of grinders in the history of the sport, and not all of them have 16 slams to their name.

And Federer works extremely hard behind the scenes to make it look easy on the court - otherwise there is no way he can hang with other athletes that are working their butt off; logical really if you apply a bit of brain power.

Of course Safin can have his preference as to whose style of play he prefers, but to say Nadal's season is objectively more impressive based simply on effort expended is stupid IMO
Click to expand...

I admit, your post makes much more sense than Safin.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

ffw2
"Federer and Nadal have transcended tennis more than Djokovic" — Toni Nadal
2 3 4
Replies
156
Views
8K
gamelovergold
G
T
Nadal talks about Laver and Federer
Replies
6
Views
2K
KillerServe
KillerServe
O
Goran Ivanesevic: "More impressed by Nadal than Federer".
2 3 4
Replies
188
Views
17K
jackson vile
jackson vile
marc45
Safin: Fed/Nadal Winning Means Something's Wrong
Replies
5
Views
1K
nikdom
N
T
Of all the amazing Roger Federer stats, this is the most impressive
Replies
43
Views
4K
Deleted member 743561
D
Back
Top