Marat Safin: Nadal more impressive than Federer

Nadal is also a very talented individual. The only reason people are underrating his talent is his supremely physical game, which may mask some of his talent because he relies way too much on it.

But make no mistake, Nadal is extremely talented and he wouldn't be where he is without talent. Just look at Borna Coric. Plays a physical style of play without the talent to back it up and he is nowhere near Nadal.

Likewise, Federer has worked his behind off to get to where he is. Talent alone can only get you so far. Look at Kyrgios.

Very true. Nadal is way more talented than Kyrgios. Kyrgios is just a flashy overrated player.
 
I think it's normal to think that players who came after you are more difficult to beat than the players against whom you competed while at your best (Safin's best years pretty much ended around the time Nadal broke through). Sergi Bruguera said that Federer was "50 times" better than Sampras, which even die-hard Federer fans ought to admit was hyperbole.
 
Safin probably thinks of Roger like a rich kid who had everything to be a success, and Nadal a working class hero who with his hard work and determination rose to the top.
Why do you think he respects a guy like Lleyton when compared to himself? He has better achievements than him (Safin) but not as much talent, so he had to work much harder to get there as opposed to Safin.

Nadal is like the GOAT version of Michael Chang/Lleyton Hewitt in terms of game.
 
And I don't know if I agree that Roger is much more talented then Rafa. Rafa is EXTREMELY talented! You don't win 16 majors if you're not talented beyond belief.
 
I think it's normal to think that players who came after you are more difficult to beat than the players against whom you competed while at your best (Safin's best years pretty much ended around the time Nadal broke through). Sergi Bruguera said that Federer was "50 times" better than Sampras, which even die-hard Federer fans ought to admit was hyperbole.
That’s an interesting phenomenon, if accurate. Compare to the stereotype of the enraged geezer pining for the good old days when things were better.
 
Safin meant nothing has changed as far as Fedal ruling the rankings.. that's it. The rest of the top 10 don't matter in this case.
 
Djokovic is more epic than both of them ;)

Following a tennis player is like watching a movie. Djokovic's story is obviously much more dramatic than Roger's and Rafa's. He's more like a Cinderella of tennis.

Imagine a movie about Roger's life: a super talented kid, born in a upper middle-class family, grown up in one of the richest and peaceful countries in the world... his tennis is stunning, but his story is boring as hell. All he has had to overcome so far is his temper, LOL. I bet the director will have to add a lot of sex scenes to make the movie more funny...
 
All I'm seeing here is Safin's idiocy in suggesting that Nadal isn't amazingly talented.

Edit: To be clear I'm not being sarcastic. Both players are absolute top talents and Safin is an idiot for suggesting otherwise.
 
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Always got the impression he doesn't think too highly of Djokovic either tbh.

Federer hates Djokovic and I think Djokovic is obsessed with Federer, both in terms of jealousy about the public's fondness for him, and also envy of his on-court success. I didn't know Marat felt that way about Djokovic. Interesting.... There is always a lot of tension / steam in Djokovic v Federer matches and this rivalry's drama is underrated imo. I think at one stage Federer probably felt that even more than Nadal, Djokovic could be the guy to eclipse his major count, which probably added some spice, too.

Safin also believes in repressing gay rights.

Yep. It's funny to see how people who talk about Margaret Court don't also mention the stuff Safin has done in the Duma to not just repress gay rights but criminalize same sex equalities. Very bad and far more damaging than what Margaret Court has done (which is also damaging but gets waaaaaay more air-time from disgruntled tennis fans).

Nadal is also a very talented individual. The only reason people are underrating his talent is his supremely physical game, which may mask some of his talent because he relies way too much on it.

But make no mistake, Nadal is extremely talented and he wouldn't be where he is without talent. Just look at Borna Coric. Plays a physical style of play without the talent to back it up and he is nowhere near Nadal.

Likewise, Federer has worked his behind off to get to where he is. Talent alone can only get you so far. Look at Kyrgios.

Very good assessment. I hate it when people say Nadal is just all fight. The guy has sick natural talent. And good to see someone give dap to Federer for how hard he trains and not just focusing on his natural talent. No one was training harder during WTFs than Federer. If you watch the WTF live streams the guy was hitting for hours and doing a lot of strategic, transition training and working on volleys for hours.
 
That’s an interesting phenomenon, if accurate. Compare to the stereotype of the enraged geezer pining for the good old days when things were better.

True. And I haven't studied it carefully enough to know. But a possible explanation is this: If a player is in his prime, then if he's decent, nobody is that much better than him. Sure, Federer was better than Safin. And, sure, Sampras was better than Bruguera. But they weren't so much better than them that they couldn't lose. Bruguera even beat Sampras on hard courts in Miami in 1997. However, as a player gets older, he starts to get worse and he likely starts to get injured. Eventually, there comes a point where he can't keep up with younger players, even if the younger players aren't any better than him or are only so much better than him that the match is winnable on a good day. As a result, the older player can easily think that the younger player is just too good for him, especially as there is a point in that process in which he's probably denying to himself that his downturn in results is the result of permanent decline rather than just temporary form, as loss of form has happened to all players many, many times. Hence, there's a plausible explanation as to why it might well be that players often regard their younger rivals (whom they can't beat) as better than their contemporaries (who they could beat occasionally) even if the younger rival is actually on a par with, or even slightly worse than, the contemporary.

This isn't the first time I've had this thought - although it is the first time I've spelt it out like this. I first had it when watching Roddick commentate on Djokovic after Roddick had retired. Roddick acted as though the moment Djokovic turned 14 or 15, Roddick just couldn't hold a candle to him. Now, as we all know, Roddick actually had a very good record against Djokovic even after Djokovic first won the Australian Open and became part of the top three in the world. Sure, Djokovic absolutely battered him on their last two meetings, and I'm sure Roddick knew that from then on it would always be the same story if they played again. But that was at least as much about Roddick's injuries and loss of form as it was about Djokovic's improvement. Djokovic is indeed better than Roddick but he's not as much better than him as Roddick claimed in the commentary that day. When I reflected on that incident, I started to think something like what I just said in my first paragraph.
 
The funny thing is, I'm sure you're right and some people will be affected by that. Can't see why, though.

Probably the same reason why others like you are crowing with glee. Go figure. A random guy says some random stuff so people talk about him, and it's either the end of the world or the best day of your life, depending on which side of the debate you're on. Gotta love Internet boards. :D

Of course I'm "crowing with glee" I always enjoy seeing the Fed fans get riled up...
 
Interesting quote from Rafa from 2009:

Who's the tennis player you admire the most?

A: The all time best that I've seen is Roger Federer. The main point about him is the talent he's got to do his stuff. I've seen him training lots of times, and very few times have seen him training with the same intensity I've trained for all my life. Never, actually. That impresses me. I'm sure a player like him has worked a lot since he was a kid, but you watch him training and he's not even paying much attention. He's got that gift: with little concentration needed, inspiration comes to him, he gets his momentum immediately and then he makes really difficult stuff like if it was easy.
 
Federer says he is impressed by Rafa's game because he is unique. To me, Federer gets the job done but is not exiting to watch.
 
Nadal is also a very talented individual. The only reason people are underrating his talent is his supremely physical game, which may mask some of his talent because he relies way too much on it.

But make no mistake, Nadal is extremely talented and he wouldn't be where he is without talent. Just look at Borna Coric. Plays a physical style of play without the talent to back it up and he is nowhere near Nadal.

Likewise, Federer has worked his behind off to get to where he is. Talent alone can only get you so far. Look at Kyrgios.
Before Nadal, Djokovic and Murray came on the scene, Federer only needed to turn up to win matches because none of his peers were good enough to challenge him. Now he trains as hard as they do, otherwise he wouldn't stand a chance against the other 3 of the Big 4.
 
I love Safin, but Federer works plenty hard even if he doesn't look like it at times, and Nadal has tons of talent. They are just different types of athletes with completely different approaches to the game. I also wouldn't bet against Djokovic in 2018. If he can manage to regain the fire and drop the Amor y Paz stuff, he can return to the top, I am quite sure. Lastly, I would be shocked if Fed and Nadal don't have a dip in form - perhaps more likely Nadal than Fed unless Nadal can play a smarter schedule. When is the last time Nadal strung together two great seasons in a row? Has he ever? I can't remember, and he's probably my favorite when all is said and done...
 
It‘s Marat we are talking about here. Of course he is embellishing the things he says a bit. Also, I’m sure he respects Roger, since he was the only guy who could hang with him when he was on. He also respects Rafa for his relentless effort, because he could never muster that mentality himself.

I miss his swagger, he could make his opponents look like wimps :cool:

Disclaimer: Not a fan of his politics.
 
I love Safin, but Federer works plenty hard even if he doesn't look like it at times, and Nadal has tons of talent. They are just different types of athletes with completely different approaches to the game. I also wouldn't bet against Djokovic in 2018. If he can manage to regain the fire and drop the Amor y Paz stuff, he can return to the top, I am quite sure. Lastly, I would be shocked if Fed and Nadal don't have a dip in form - perhaps more likely Nadal than Fed unless Nadal can play a smarter schedule. When is the last time Nadal strung together two great seasons in a row? Has he ever? I can't remember, and he's probably my favorite when all is said and done...
That's a pretty good analysis...
 
As for the talent-ballerino vs grinding-grunt conundrum, I have no love for it.

Ask Pierre Paganini about the work Fed has put in since 2003. Talk about work ethic and motivation.
Or ask Toni about Rafa‘s talent. Better not, though, he will give you his dismissive stare...
 
He said it. Nadal more epic than Federer.
@MichaelNadal


Marat Safin believes Rafael Nadal is a more impressive tennis player than Roger Federer because of how much harder he has to work than the 19-time Grand Slam champion.

The former world No. 1 has watched on as the legendary duo topped the rankings once more in 2017 – having split all four majors between them – but remains more astounded by Nadal’s achievements.

Safin believes Federer’s career is built upon outrageous natural talent, while Nadal has been forced to fight for everything in his career.

https://www.google.co.in/amp/metro....re-impressive-than-roger-federer-7110944/amp/
FORUM SOLVED.
 
Why do you think he respects a guy like Lleyton when compared to himself? He has better achievements than him (Safin) but not as much talent, so he had to work much harder to get there as opposed to Safin.

Nadal is like the GOAT version of Michael Chang/Lleyton Hewitt in terms of game.

Is he really though? I mean there are similarities of course but none of the things Chang or Hewitt possessed in their arsenal comes close to say Nadal's FH which is one of the best I've ever seen. When you have such a tremendous weapon it's hard to say you're evolved version of players who had to play out of their comfort zone to dictate rallies against most pros. I'd be quicker to put someone like Wilander as the pinnacle of Chang or Hewitt's game, not Nadal.

Watching Nadal at FO this year the last thing that impressed me was his movement (which seems to be nowhere near his younger days if I'm honest), he mostly just straight-out blew people off court with his groundies. He's a topspin artist in a way, the combination of spin, pace, angles and placement is something the vast majority of his opponents on clay just can't handle at all. His court coverage/defense is there as a bonus to make it more difficult for them when they go for broke (ie. try to take the racquet out of his hands) because they can't trade rallies with him.
 
Very true. Nadal is way more talented than Kyrgios. Kyrgios is just a flashy overrated player.

I think Kyrgios is pretty talented with that amazing serve and good hands. Don't think it's a coincidence he beat all of the big 4 except Murray (who's a nightmare match-up for that type of game). However yeah, he's nowhere near Nadal in terms of talent as far as I'm concerned. All the determination, hard work, grit etc.in the world wouldn't turn Nick into a 16 time slam winner.

I do think people (and that includes both current and former famous players and coaches) often make the mistake of characterizing talent as big aggressive game or touch when it comes to dropshots and volleys. There are more dimensions to the game than that and I do think they also represent a form of talent. What about say Murray's ROS and anticipation, how is that not talent given that they played such a big role in him having a great career? If you're so good at certain elements that they set you apart from the vast majority of people in your field it's hard for me not to see them as an expression of talent.

The majority of pros work extremely hard, what really separates those who rise to the very top is talent usually (and having a body that can take the grind of the tour of course). Of course mental strength counts as well but that also in large part stems from having weapons you can rely on in big moments.
 
Is he really though? I mean there are similarities of course but none of the things Chang or Hewitt possessed in their arsenal comes close to say Nadal's FH which is one of the best I've ever seen. When you have such a tremendous weapon it's hard to say you're evolved version of players who had to play out of their comfort zone to dictate rallies against most pros. I'd be quicker to put someone like Wilander as the pinnacle of Chang or Hewitt's game, not Nadal.

Watching Nadal at FO this year the last thing that impressed me was his movement (which seems to be nowhere near his younger days if I'm honest), he mostly just straight-out blew people off court with his groundies. He's a topspin artist in a way, the combination of spin, pace, angles and placement is something the vast majority of his opponents on clay just can't handle at all. His court coverage/defense is there as a bonus to make it more difficult for them when they go for broke (ie. try to take the racquet out of his hands) because they can't trade rallies with him.
Nadal has more weapons than Chang could dream of but has turned into a Chang-like scrambler on HC on many an occasion. It's pretty perplexing. He had a much easier time adapting to being consistently aggressive on grass than on HC.
 
Before Nadal, Djokovic and Murray came on the scene, Federer only needed to turn up to win matches because none of his peers were good enough to challenge him. Now he trains as hard as they do, otherwise he wouldn't stand a chance against the other 3 of the Big 4.

Post Nadal's and Federer's training regimes side by side.

:rolleyes:
 
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Before Nadal, Djokovic and Murray came on the scene, Federer only needed to turn up to win matches because none of his peers were good enough to challenge him. Now he trains as hard as they do, otherwise he wouldn't stand a chance against the other 3 of the Big 4.
That's a faulty assessment. Fed needed to overcome some early obstacles too, he didn't just need to show up. There were plenty of guys with winning records over him early jn his career. That's like me saying Nadal just needed to show up on clay to win because nobody was good enough to challenge him on the surface.
 
I wonder if Safin will reconsider his statement if Fed tries more "EEEAAHHHH"'s and "AAAAHHHH"'s when he hits the ball like Rafa does. Will it appear like he is actually working hard in that case?
 
Lol!
There's not much in what he said either. Marat - like everyone else who has 2 functioning eyes - can see that Federer is infiniely more talented than Nadal has ever dreamed to be. To him, hard work and grit matters more than talent. Fair enough.
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Before Nadal, Djokovic and Murray came on the scene, Federer only needed to turn up to win matches because none of his peers were good enough to challenge him. Now he trains as hard as they do, otherwise he wouldn't stand a chance against the other 3 of the Big 4.

That's a completely erroneous claim.

Go take your grandkids out for ice cream or something and stop obsessing over Nadal AND Federer! :rolleyes:
 
Before Nadal, Djokovic and Murray came on the scene, Federer only needed to turn up to win matches because none of his peers were good enough to challenge him. Now he trains as hard as they do, otherwise he wouldn't stand a chance against the other 3 of the Big 4.
That is as wrong and ridiculous as anything Fed fans write about Nadal.

I don't know whether to call this a stupid lie or just general stupidity based on complete ignorance.

Why don't we say that Nadal only needed to show in early years because none of his competitors, other than Federer, was good enough to challenge him. Let's throw out all his wins against players other than Federer, in an attempt to downgrade his reputation, because obviously there were no decent players - other than Fed - to challenge him before around 2011.

Is that ignorant enough to make you happy?
 
He said it. Nadal more epic than Federer.
@MichaelNadal
Marat Safin believes Rafael Nadal is a more impressive tennis player than Roger Federer

because of how much harder he has to work
than the 19-time Grand Slam champion.


The former world No. 1 has watched on as the legendary duo topped the rankings once more in 2017 – having split all four majors between them – but remains more astounded by Nadal’s achievements.

Safin believes Federer’s career is built upon outrageous natural talent, while Nadal has been forced to fight for everything in his career.

https://www.google.co.in/amp/metro....re-impressive-than-roger-federer-7110944/amp/
Nadal's work ethic as with his career accomplishments are to be lauded.

On the other hand, . to paraphrase tennis HOF inductee Gladys Heldman: "if it looks like you're trying hard, you're probably doing it wrong."​
 
That is as wrong and ridiculous as anything Fed fans write about Nadal.

I don't know whether to call this a stupid lie or just general stupidity based on complete ignorance.

Why don't we say that Nadal only needed to show in early years because none of his competitors, other than Federer, was good enough to challenge him. Let's throw out all his wins against players other than Federer, in an attempt to downgrade his reputation, because obviously there were no decent players - other than Fed - to challenge him before around 2011.

Is that ignorant enough to make you happy?
I'd rather say let's ignore what Nadal did on clay because all he needed to do was to show up on the surface since nobody could challenge him on it.
 
Is he really though? I mean there are similarities of course but none of the things Chang or Hewitt possessed in their arsenal comes close to say Nadal's FH which is one of the best I've ever seen. When you have such a tremendous weapon it's hard to say you're evolved version of players who had to play out of their comfort zone to dictate rallies against most pros. I'd be quicker to put someone like Wilander as the pinnacle of Chang or Hewitt's game, not Nadal.

Watching Nadal at FO this year the last thing that impressed me was his movement (which seems to be nowhere near his younger days if I'm honest), he mostly just straight-out blew people off court with his groundies. He's a topspin artist in a way, the combination of spin, pace, angles and placement is something the vast majority of his opponents on clay just can't handle at all. His court coverage/defense is there as a bonus to make it more difficult for them when they go for broke (ie. try to take the racquet out of his hands) because they can't trade rallies with him.
The only player I can compare Nadal with is Borg. Borg was better on faster surfaces, but on clay there are huge similarities. The biggest commonality is top spin. In the Nadal days he was uniqiue. No one else depended on top spin all the time from the backhand side, by default. Borg could hit a 2HBH slice, but it was a bailout shot, usually hit only when he was clearly in a defensive position - although Borg would also chip and charge on grass.

Other players started using more and more topspin after Borg, but Borg set the level in his era.

Nadal did the same thing when he cam on the scene.
 
This is a pretty dumb argument to make. Natural talent only takes you so far. Especially in sports. If you don't put the work in you're not going to coast off of natural talent for long.

This is disrespectful to Federer, whose work ethic is consistently under-appreciated.

It's a funny paradox because Safin HIMSELF encapsulates that you need to put the WORK in too. Not just coast on talent. He was a somewhat wasted talent.
 
Djokovic is more epic than both of them ;)

Following a tennis player is like watching a movie. Djokovic's story is obviously much more dramatic than Roger's and Rafa's. He's more like a Cinderella of tennis.

Imagine a movie about Roger's life: a super talented kid, born in a upper middle-class family, grown up in one of the richest and peaceful countries in the world... his tennis is stunning, but his story is boring as hell. All he has had to overcome so far is his temper, LOL. I bet the director will have to add a lot of sex scenes to make the movie more funny...

You new users are getting weirder and weirder by the day.
 
That is as wrong and ridiculous as anything Fed fans write about Nadal.

I don't know whether to call this a stupid lie or just general stupidity based on complete ignorance.

Why don't we say that Nadal only needed to show in early years because none of his competitors, other than Federer, was good enough to challenge him. Let's throw out all his wins against players other than Federer, in an attempt to downgrade his reputation, because obviously there were no decent players - other than Fed - to challenge him before around 2011.

Is that ignorant enough to make you happy?
I just think you are in denial.

 
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