Marcelo Rios worthy of Hall of Fame?
- Thread starter Gonzalito17
- Start date
Mustard
Bionic Poster
Leconte was a dazzling player when in form. I love his win over Lendl at 1985 Wimbledon, with the number of times that Leconte just smashed down the line forehand winners off the return of serve, almost Laver like.
Because he did what he wanted and didn't give a damn what anybody thought. Rios liked tennis, but I get the impression that he hated a lot of the stuff that went with being a tennis professional, like the travelling across the world and the media duties, amongst other things.
Crisstti
Legend
Yep, he was brilliant. The beauty and artistry of his game, his innovative tennis, his importance to Latin American tennis.
Plus, he was number one.
His personality shouldn't matter here. Plus, it wasn't so bad.
Hehehe, I can just see it.
Plus, he was number one.
His personality shouldn't matter here. Plus, it wasn't so bad.
Hehehe, I can just see it.
Rabbit
G.O.A.T.
While not my all-time favorite, he is certainly in my top 5. I have his Lipton final against Agassi. Rios just made Agassi look like a club player. Rios' talent was unreal, his game was sublime.
THUNDERVOLLEY
G.O.A.T.
No, it is not. By that criteria, major-free Wozniacki or Jankovic being a former #1 took more effort than the intensity and ability required to demolish the competition to win a major.
I'm sorry, but that does not fly.
Anyone can play like a workhorse, go deep in events enough to get the points required for that ranking, but as history illustrates, everyone cannot win a major--where one is forced to domianate all on their path. There are no such demands in place to earn a #1 ranking.
On that note, Rios has no business being the HOF.
Gonzalito17
Banned
According to the book about Rios, there are anecdotes about Rios being asked for an autography by a little girl and Rios took the pen and broke it. Gambill said Rios tried to stare him down in the players lounge before their match. Bollettieri said a girl waited two hours for an autograph and Rios refused it. Bollettieri also said Rios tried to not pay Nick when he won the million dollar Grand Slam Cup in Munich after he beat Agassi because "It wasn't a tour event." Rios verbally disrespected Bud Collins at a press conference in Estoril saying he would "not take questions from that man." Ilie Nastase said Rios is "The worst ***** I ever met." Spadea partied with Rios once in Indian Wells and he said the girl he took into his suite came running out screaming just moments after she went in. Roy Emerson told Rios nice match and tried to shake his hand and Rios said to him, "Who the f*** are you?" There's just a ton of examples of Rios being rude and crude in this book which is a must read for Rios fans. Rios was a one of a kind player and personality.
Crisstti
Legend
We're talking men's tennis.
The fact that less players have been number one than have won a major would point to it being harder.
kiki
Banned
Good post.Rios is so overrated, only dull era posters can be astonished by his talent.Leconte and Mecir were so much better than him...Mecir won the Dallas finals, nothing close Rios ever got to.
He was good, don´t misunderstand me...but for old seasoned posters, he had nothing really special...
kiki
Banned
If he had played in the 70´s or 80´s, he´d be at most like Jarryd or Fibak.
To think Corretja owns him blattantly...
kiki
Banned
Maybe he didn´t have a defined sexual identity...
THUNDERVOLLEY
G.O.A.T.
No, it is not harder, which is why in the expression "playing the computer" came into vogue in the last century, as anyone playing enough events--collecting enough points could get there--despite never having the goods to win a major. You cannot do that with the majors. Since the majors are the distinguishing achievement of the sport--with the Grand Slam being the ultimate achievement--if a player cannot even win one, he should not be able to stand shoulder to shoulder with those who captured the great tennis prize.
Gonzalito17
Banned
Rios more than stands shoulder to shoulder with any slam winner. He was 2-1 vs. Agassi. Thomas Johansson, winner of the Australian Open, said you could play a great match but Rios could still kill you like 1 and 1. Safin, winner of two majors, said Rios had the talent to win 10 majors. Korda beat Rios in the Aussie final but Korda tested positive a few months later. Who knows how long they waited to go public with the test. Rios played Korda a few months later at Indian Wells and straight setted him.
Gonzalito17
Banned
Spadea said Rios was a man of few words. Said he hooked up with three chicks that night )
Arnaud DiPasquale also told the story about partying with Rios in Santiago. They were friends.
There was another story about Rios bringing five hookers to the restaurant bar in Indian Wells to watch the Tyson-Bruno fight ) When all the seniors there saw Rios and his girlfriends enter, their jaws dropped and they promptly evacuated the scene )
Gonzalito17
Banned
Corretja did not own Rios. Rios was better than Jarryd and Fibak. How close did they get to #1?
Gonzalito17
Banned
Did Leconte or Mecir come close to achieving #1 ATP ranking? Did either of them invent a new shot, the jumping backhand, which is used today by many players 15 years later?
Gonzalito17
Banned
True. Every year there are four major title winners. ATP #1 ranking is a lot harder to achieve for a player.
Mustard
Bionic Poster
Chang was doing the jumping backhand before Rios.
THUNDERVOLLEY
G.O.A.T.
So in one post, Rios just lost one of his "credits" designed to get him in the HOF.
Crisstti
Legend
Doesn't matter
. He's one of the most brilliant players to play the game, and was number one. More than enough imo.
kiki
Banned
Mecir was unique himself...and Jarryd ROS is one of the best of the last decades...
Gonzalito17
Banned
Chang did not invent the jumping two handed backhand, he copied it from Rios. SO did Safin and Goran and many others. In the book Ayme and Bollettieri both talk about Rios inventing that shot and not stopping him when he first introduced it in practice at Bollettieri's.
Gonzalito17
Banned
Doesn't matter
Agree, I think #1 is a tremendous accomplishment and any player who gets to #1 in singles ATP or WTA deserves to be in the Hall of Fame for that alone.
heninfan99
Talk Tennis Guru
Are you really basing this on his being #1? Me thinks it doesn't matter. You'd put him in any way cause he was a genius player.
Like I'd put Gasquet in just for having best one hander in tennis history but that's just me.
BTW, Reeshard does a jumping one hander. Try that one!
Like I'd put Gasquet in just for having best one hander in tennis history but that's just me.
BTW, Reeshard does a jumping one hander. Try that one!
Mustard
Bionic Poster
Michael Chang and Goran Ivanisevic were around on the main tour for years before Marcelo Rios. Chang did many jumping backhands before Rios was even on the main tour. I like Rios but it is clearly false to claim that he invented the jumping backhand shot.
kiki
Banned
abmk
Bionic Poster
yeah, I'm pretty sure the likes of agassi, federer, safin were dumb to praise rios' talent. :roll:
he was every inch the equal of leconte/mecir in terms of talent. its just your nostalgia and la la land experience speaking.
and what are you trying to prove by talking about mecir's dallas win ? corretja won the masters in 98 and made two major finals just like mecir did ..does that mean he was mecir's equal in terms of talent ? :lol:
kiki
Banned
What else did he do at majors other than being bandwaggoned by Korda at the only major final he attended?
He is not even top 10 for non slammers
Okker,Pecci,Solomon,Gottfried,Ramirez,Pecci,Leconte,Mecir,Jarryd,Medvedev,Ferreira,Corretja,Martin or Pioline are head and shoulders above Rios
I place him as high, but not above the Gorman,Richey,Franulovic,Pilic,Barazutti,Higueras,Dibbs,Clerc,Mayotte league at most
He is not even top 10 for non slammers
Okker,Pecci,Solomon,Gottfried,Ramirez,Pecci,Leconte,Mecir,Jarryd,Medvedev,Ferreira,Corretja,Martin or Pioline are head and shoulders above Rios
I place him as high, but not above the Gorman,Richey,Franulovic,Pilic,Barazutti,Higueras,Dibbs,Clerc,Mayotte league at most
abmk
Bionic Poster
what ? rios and corretja are tied 5-5 in h2h ....
abmk
Bionic Poster
and what about leconte ? got ripped apart by wilander in the only major final he attended ....
what about mecir ? got ripped apart by lendl in both the finals he attended ...
ferrrira ? oh you mean that guy who was 0-11 vs agassi and rarely won sets vs him whereas rios could toy around with agassi and move him around like a ragdoll ?
barazutti ? higueras ? dibbs ? pilic ? franulovic ? mayotte ?????
LOL !!!!!!!
rios was running through the field in so many events in 98 ...none of the others in both of your lists come close to that ...
talent-wise he's up there with any non-slam winner at the very least ... achievements wise a bit below
but putting him with barazutti ? higueras ? dibbs ? pilic ? franulovic ? mayotte ????? please !!!!!!!
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kiki
Banned
kiki
Banned
You have little knowledge of those guys
No shame if you just talk about what you have watched otherwise it belittles your fanboy opinions
abmk
Bionic Poster
well of course mecir was more talented than corretja. rios was also more talented than corretja ..
you bringing in mecir's dallas win doesn't conclusively prove anything .. that is what I pointed out .
abmk
Bionic Poster
oh please , it is you who has little clue and is hilariously biased
Didn't I already show you a pointer ? agassi ripped apart ferriera so many times it wasn't even funny. rios moved him around and had him in trouble in all of their 3 matches - won 2 of them including a straight set thrashing at miami and retired in the 3rd at one set all .
of course ferriera doesn't have even a single slam final ..solid player, but nothing special. only 2 slam semis
franulovic was nothing great. just went deep at highly depleted RGs
mayotte wasn't great either. no finals, just two semis, no big event wins either
etc etc ..
kiki
Banned
Franulovic: a final and a semi...did Rios do better?
Mayotte: two major semis and the WCT finals final in 1985...again, any news from Rios?
I know Ferreira is not that great and you described him well, as a steady player with powerful groundies and a good first serve.However, record wise, it is very close between him and the player from Chili.I was refeering to records.
Gonzalito17
Banned
Ferreira was a good player, gave Sampras some trouble, but he was not a special player like Rios. Safin or anybody never said Wayne had the talent to win 10 majors. Federer never speaks glowingly about Ferriera's game he has often about Rios. Good tough quality player. But Rios was special.
THUNDERVOLLEY
G.O.A.T.
What are you talking about?
Chang was on tour years before Rios and had already come and gone with the jumping two-handed backhand. Rios is not unique, and without a major, he does not deserve the HOF.
Feriera had a great serve first and second. Wicked forhand when he had time. Solid volleyer with good court positioning at the net. His backhand could break down however and he never seemed to recover from momentum changes in matches. He just couldnt get over the hump. I liked him quite a bit when he was on the tour. He was one of a few that could really get to Sampras on a regular basis.
Compared to Rios though....not even close. Rios was a genius for about 5 years of his professional career before the injuries and week in and out grind of the Tour really got to him. The first half of 98 he was virtually unstopable other than the one hickup in the Aussie open final. He went into the French with a bunch of cortizone shots in his arm.
I will say it again....he attained the #1 ranking. Many players in the hall of fame achieved far less. Anyone who could get to #1 should be in the HOF at this point. It is far more difficult to achieve the #1 ranking than to win a slam. The points are not given to you and you just cant get hot for two weeks and achieve the top spot of the best tennis player on the planet.
Compared to Rios though....not even close. Rios was a genius for about 5 years of his professional career before the injuries and week in and out grind of the Tour really got to him. The first half of 98 he was virtually unstopable other than the one hickup in the Aussie open final. He went into the French with a bunch of cortizone shots in his arm.
I will say it again....he attained the #1 ranking. Many players in the hall of fame achieved far less. Anyone who could get to #1 should be in the HOF at this point. It is far more difficult to achieve the #1 ranking than to win a slam. The points are not given to you and you just cant get hot for two weeks and achieve the top spot of the best tennis player on the planet.
Gonzalito17
Banned
Well said Magnut. It's a special thing to be "the best" in the world at anything. Rios achieved that remarkable distinction and nobody can take that away from him.
Gonzalito17
Banned
There's a funny story in the book about a Rios-Ferreira match at the French Open and Wayne lost a five setter to Rios which he probably should have won. And after the match Ferreira took out all of his racquets and smashed everyone of them on the umpire chair. Right there on the court. Can't imagine seeing that happen today. Well maybe Janowicz or Gulbis maybe )
Ferreira had some classic breakdowns in his career. I remember him playing Safin in Canada (I think). He got a bad call or overule and basically quit the match. I remember on match point he just caught safins second serve and started walking to the net for a handshake.
When he first hit the tour he was a very very dangerous player. He had some classic dogfights early on. I still watch the 1992 US Open Quarterfinal against Chang once in a while. Wayne strained a quad and just started cracking forehands left and right. When he served he went straight serve and volley. He looked so casual it was like a teaching pro playing an old lady.
In the end I always felt Wayne underachieved overall but I think he did get to #4 in the world at one point. He had the game he just fell into the apathy trap too much when he should have been digging deep to find something special. The year he won the Canadian Open he did just that (1996 I think).
Great player though. Probably the biggest forehand in the game in the early 90s. Yes its true.
bluetrain4
G.O.A.T.
I agree, but I honestly don't think the HOF will agree. But, who knows? There are still No. 1s with Slams who haven't made it - Muster, Kafelnikov, Moya, Safin, Ferrero, Hewitt. Though, for most it's a matter of timing/eligibility - Safin, Hewitt, Kafelnikov, I think are foregone conclusions.
But, Muster, Moya, Ferrero, and Rios - not sure - all were No. 1 for single digit weeks. Again, I agree about the No. 1 criteria, but not sure the HOF does. I don''t think Rios' general "genius" is going to get him in. His overall Slam profile isn't great (1 RU, 5 QF). Muster's profile is much better - 1 win, 5QF, 3 SF, and he won more Masters. Even Ferrero's profile is better (1 win, 2 RU, 3 SF, 3 QF), and he was No. 1 longer. He has 4 Masters, as where Rios has 5. Moya too has a better Slam profile.
If Rios gets in, all of these players need to get in.
And they should all be in. Its a travesty Muster is not in already. French open title and #1 in the world after being nearly put out of the game in a somewhat tennis related accident where he should never have played again. How he is not in the HOF right now is beyond me.
When you are the best player in the world you should be an automatic HOF candidate. Its the pinacle achievment of the sport....to be the best. Its what the whole point of the professional tour is about.
If not....do away with the ranking system and the ATP and just have tournaments with no rank based seeding systems.
Honestly it does not really matter all that much. Rios will be remembered either way. He had an impact on the game and those who actually watched him play. People who truelly love this game dont care about off court stuff. Its not like the guy was out killing puppies or molesting children. He was just a moody and private guy who didnt like people bothering him. Kind of like the old man down the street who doesnt wave back when you say hello. It doesnt mean he is a bad guy hes just....in his own place. I have never heard of Marcello going out of his way to do harm to anyone.
N
NadalAgassi
Guest
I am quite shocked that bluetrain, one of the only intelligent posters remaining on this forum, is actually arguing Rios deserves to be in the HOF. 
It is bad enough some 1 slam wonders are now getting in, never mind a player who really didnt even close to winning a slam (made one final and got 6 games, no other times past the quarters). The standards of the Hall have already slipped to an embarssing enough low, lets not make it even much lower.
The argument getting to #1 should be enough is quite laughable given the list of recent players, especialy women, who have gotten to #1. It takes over a whole year at #1 for a slamless player to come even close to equalling the value of a slam title (eg- Wozniacki like time, and even that is highly debateable), never mind Rios's short stint. Meanwhile as low as the Hall of Fame standards have gotten only the very best 1 slam winners (Sabatini, to a degree Chang) or 1 slam singles winners who also excellened in a major way in doubles (Novotna, to a lesser degtee Noah) or all time doubles greats in the case of non singles champions have gotten in, so even an unextraordinary 1 slam winner, which would still likely be clearly superior to Rios as far as career goes has no chance of getting in.
BTW I do agree Safin and Hewitt are a lock to make it, but I dont think Kafelnikov is, and I wouldnt be surprised if he never makes it in. I also think Conchita Martinez is on the bubble and might not ever make it in either.
It is bad enough some 1 slam wonders are now getting in, never mind a player who really didnt even close to winning a slam (made one final and got 6 games, no other times past the quarters). The standards of the Hall have already slipped to an embarssing enough low, lets not make it even much lower.
The argument getting to #1 should be enough is quite laughable given the list of recent players, especialy women, who have gotten to #1. It takes over a whole year at #1 for a slamless player to come even close to equalling the value of a slam title (eg- Wozniacki like time, and even that is highly debateable), never mind Rios's short stint. Meanwhile as low as the Hall of Fame standards have gotten only the very best 1 slam winners (Sabatini, to a degree Chang) or 1 slam singles winners who also excellened in a major way in doubles (Novotna, to a lesser degtee Noah) or all time doubles greats in the case of non singles champions have gotten in, so even an unextraordinary 1 slam winner, which would still likely be clearly superior to Rios as far as career goes has no chance of getting in.
BTW I do agree Safin and Hewitt are a lock to make it, but I dont think Kafelnikov is, and I wouldnt be surprised if he never makes it in. I also think Conchita Martinez is on the bubble and might not ever make it in either.
I am quite shocked that bluetrain, one of the only intelligent posters remaining on this forum, is actually arguing Rios deserves to be in the HOF.
It is bad enough some 1 slam wonders are now getting in, never mind a player who really didnt even close to winning a slam (made one final and got 6 games, no other times past the quarters). The standards of the Hall have already slipped to an embarssing enough low, lets not make it even much lower.
The argument getting to #1 should be enough is quite laughable given the list of recent players, especialy women, who have gotten to #1. It takes over a whole year at #1 for a slamless player to come even close to equalling the value of a slam title (eg- Wozniacki like time, and even that is highly debateable), never mind Rios's short stint. Meanwhile as low as the Hall of Fame standards have gotten only the very best 1 slam winners (Sabatini, to a degree Chang) or 1 slam singles winners who also excellened in a major way in doubles (Novotna, to a lesser degtee Noah) or all time doubles greats in the case of non singles champions have gotten in, so even an unextraordinary 1 slam winner, which would still likely be clearly superior to Rios as far as career goes has no chance of getting in.
BTW I do agree Safin and Hewitt are a lock to make it, but I dont think Kafelnikov is, and I wouldnt be surprised if he never makes it in. I also think Conchita Martinez is on the bubble and might not ever make it in either.
I agree with you 100% but the standards have been lowered considering whats has already been accepted and there is no going back.....unless you start taking back HOF status to those who are currently in. Its kind of like they opened pandoras box.
Gonzalito17
Banned
I am quite shocked that bluetrain, one of the only intelligent posters remaining on this forum, is actually arguing Rios deserves to be in the HOF.
Bluetrain obviously knows and understands the complex but uniquely extraordinary greatness of Rios. You might as well join the program. If you watch the 1998 Miami final in it's entirety, you might come to realize Rios might even deserve to be inducted just based on that match alone. What a performance of genius.
I think Isner and Mahut should both be put into the Hall of Fame on their famous Wimbledon match. It was that special.
Gonzalito17
Banned
Good talented nice players but they never stood at the top of the ATP mountain and reigned supreme like Rios did. 15 years after they retire they will probably not be remembered as fondly as Rios is now and always will be.
Doubt there will be serious discussions in 2030 on tenniswarehouse about Nalbandian and Bagdhatis going to Newport. )
