Mark Woodforde: "I consider Rafael Nadal the best volleyer in our game today"
- Thread starter intrepidish
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Kralingen
Bionic Poster
Actually I think gun to my head I would take Jack Sock’s volleys. When he plays doubles it’s a legitimately electric experience.
The thing about Rafa’s volleys is that he has the best approach shots and ground game, and you really only see him come to net in advantageous situations. So you can’t separate just the volleys from the overall player.
If he was playing true SnV every point like Goran, Rafter, Henman etc then some of his flaws would be more maginified. For example, I would never say he’s a better volleyer than someone like Sampras.
But all that said, he has great volleys for this day and age and uses his forays to net well. He deserves credit for developing that part of his game, it was definitely lacking in his early years. The truth is he is a smart, complete tennis player in every respect and has almost no weaknesses.
The thing about Rafa’s volleys is that he has the best approach shots and ground game, and you really only see him come to net in advantageous situations. So you can’t separate just the volleys from the overall player.
If he was playing true SnV every point like Goran, Rafter, Henman etc then some of his flaws would be more maginified. For example, I would never say he’s a better volleyer than someone like Sampras.
But all that said, he has great volleys for this day and age and uses his forays to net well. He deserves credit for developing that part of his game, it was definitely lacking in his early years. The truth is he is a smart, complete tennis player in every respect and has almost no weaknesses.
and how is that in any way evidence of Nadal being a better vollyer?
TMF
Talk Tennis Guru
We're talking about volley here. The fact that Nadal is 100 dimensional baseline game doesn't justify to compare his level to players in the past that have played serve/volley. Capiche?
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
I love the Nadal damage control team 
what an interesting thing to be tasked with constantly reminding us that everything Nadal does is nothing special while he keeps ticking past the slam record 
what an interesting thing to be tasked with constantly reminding us that everything Nadal does is nothing special while he keeps ticking past the slam record Does "he is up there" mean , "he is a better vollyer than me"? And don't you think that Fed is humble enough not say he is better in anything than anyone else?
How is that an objective assessment?
Mustard
Bionic Poster
The latter, of courseas djokovic's coach or as woodforde's best buddy?
If I had a son I would show him a picture of Woodforde and tell him ‘don't play like this'.
Yup, because one-dimensional serve-bot's subjective opinion is an objective assessment of Nadal being a better Volleyer than everyone else, shm.
StrongRule
Talk Tennis Guru
Nadal's volleys are a bit underrated while Federer's are a bit overrated. During their primes Nadal used to pass Federer a lot. Part of it is because Federer sometimes rushes to the volley when he shouldn't.
NeutralFan
G.O.A.T.
Well, Nadal in his peak would barely miss easy vollies under pressure like Fed would do against Nadal's passing shots. What define a better vollier ? By Making a great volley at 40-0 and fail to execute a simple volley to save break point? it's not as BnW as you want to believe.
intrepidish
Hall of Fame
I think Isner knows a lot more about tennis than you, my friend, and of course Woodforde and McEnroe know a lot about volleying and said the same thing. But what about this guy Federer? Does he count as knowing something about tennis?
For the best volley, Federer has chosen Rafael Nadal: “I think Rafa’s up there” Federer also picked Nadal for the best forehand...
https://www.**************.org/tenn...layer-picks-rafael-nadal-for-the-best-volley/
vamos22
Rookie
Federer has the best bh volley and smash, Nadal technically has superior volley and covers the net better
Impressario
Semi-Pro
Deification is boring even for the priests sometimes
Tennfan123
Legend
I’ve heard McEnroe say the same. I think we probably all have. McEnroe and Woodforde know a thing or two about volleying.
intrepidish
Hall of Fame
Lot of repetition in this thread!
What's with the spam?
Spam and repetition is your department typically so I get that when you have a hammer, all you see are nails but try and keep up.
intrepidish
Hall of Fame
Gonna be hard to deny GoatDal's net skills now that him and McEnroe share the same opinion on the subject
Woodforde, McEnroe and even Federer himself in a stunning display of cognitive dissonance are discounted by our fabulous TTW Federer fans as not knowing what they are talking about.
Only they themselves imagine that they are equipped to evaluate matters of importance to TTW and to discuss endless hypotheticals with the utmost of certainty.
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ffw2
Hall of Fame
You've got an opportunity to develop your originality.Spam and repetition is your department typically so I get that when you have a hammer, all you see are nails but try and keep up.
First step for you will be to consolidate all of your tennis message board accounts.
intrepidish
Hall of Fame
For sure. McEnroe has been saying this for more than a decade in fact. The response here used to be 'McEnroe is crazy' or 'he's looking for clicks' but now we have more and more commentators, current pros and former pros saying the same thing.
Tennfan123
Legend
It’s going to be interesting to see if Nadal can win Wimbledon and commentators say he did it with an all time great volleying performance. Like they do about his serving at USO 10.
What kind of evidence do you have to prove that Federer was missing more volleys under pressure than Nadal and are you taking into account how much more Fed would come to the net?
intrepidish
Hall of Fame
Nadal has saved himself in plenty of important matches in recent years with his forecourt game. That 2019 US Open final in the 5th set against Medvedev for example would not have gone well for him without his transition game and net skills. It made all the difference.
And he would not more about tennis than you as well, but the point is that is one person's opinions and hardly represent what everyone else thinks , does it?
And I have already adressed your Fed comment which you did not reply to. Does "I think RAfa 's up there " mean that he is the best Vollyer?
ForehandCross
G.O.A.T.
The way I see it, I don't need experts to mould my opinions
Rafa is an amazing volleyer, top class. But he is behind guys like Cressy who volley almost every point for a living. When you talk about volley the shot, it no longer is about economy . Guys who play doubles regularly usually have better volleys.
Ask Nadal to reach R4 of a HC slam while volleying on 95% of the points.
Same goes for Fed too. When he was active, I would have still placed Mischa Zverev and Mahut ahead of him off the top of my head.
The correct statement is "Nadal is the best volleyer among top players"
Not my fault that guys like these don't exist in the elitist Crowd pleasing minds like that of Woodforde , he probably doesn't even know Cressy exists even if the guy reached R4 at AO.
Fedfans and Nadalfans can now fight over who's better between the two.
You know just because the big 3 are the big 3, it doesn't automatically make them the best at everything.
Rafa is an amazing volleyer, top class. But he is behind guys like Cressy who volley almost every point for a living. When you talk about volley the shot, it no longer is about economy . Guys who play doubles regularly usually have better volleys.
Ask Nadal to reach R4 of a HC slam while volleying on 95% of the points.
Same goes for Fed too. When he was active, I would have still placed Mischa Zverev and Mahut ahead of him off the top of my head.
The correct statement is "Nadal is the best volleyer among top players"
Not my fault that guys like these don't exist in the elitist Crowd pleasing minds like that of Woodforde , he probably doesn't even know Cressy exists even if the guy reached R4 at AO.
Fedfans and Nadalfans can now fight over who's better between the two.
You know just because the big 3 are the big 3, it doesn't automatically make them the best at everything.
clayqueen
Bionic Poster
No one is suggesting that Rafa serves and volleys. They are talking about volleying in the middle of a rally. Absolutely nothing to do with Cressy, Karlovic or Zverev Snr.
ForehandCross
G.O.A.T.
And I absolutely laugh at those who have been watching the sport for over a decade but need some crowd pleasing brownie point winning experts for opinions about a sport that they obsess about 24/7.
AnOctorokForDinner
Talk Tennis Guru
At least Fred won a slam while s&v'ing on most first serves. No top player born after him s&v'd consistently at any point.
intrepidish
Hall of Fame
That was in the context of Federer being asked to pick the best player for each stroke. He chose Nadal. So did McEnroe. So did Woodforde. Those are guys who would know an awful lot more than everyone on this forum put together.
Then we have loads of other pros saying it too.
So, no, you haven't addressed it.
For years and years on TTW all we heard was 'talentless moonballer' from posters who didn't themselves know the first thing about the game.
Even when they heard differently from their own heroes, they ignored their heroes or called them demented.
clayqueen
Bionic Poster
They make up these scenarios in their heads which they know are contrary to the evidence but they don't want the facts to get in the way. When Rafa beat Berrettini in the 2019 USO SF they nicknamed it the Berrettini Open but when Djoker beat him in the final of Wimbledon, Djokovic is the greatest grass court player ever.
Nope , he didn't chose Nadal, he said he is up there. Usually when you say "up there", it implies he is one of the better ones and certainly it does not imply that Federer is conceding that Nadal is better than him.
I do like Nadal a lot and am not one of those people but it appears that now he is positioned to win the goat race, everyone is going to elevate him above everyone else in all departments and that is not right.
Roger is one of the last breed of all court players and has been attacking the net probably more than other players with great success. It's bizarre to me that now we are willing to take that away from him as well.
No, because his trademark kick serve would go into Nadal's forehand. And in rallyes he would have zero chance anyway.
intrepidish
Hall of Fame
Again, it was in the context of picking a single player per stroke to create your ultimate player. Roger chose Rafael for the volleys. That's pretty clear, isn't it?
He chose Nadal. So did McEnroe. So did Woodforde. Those are guys who would know an awful lot more than everyone on this forum put together.
I'm not sure what you're trying to establish here by saying that Isner doesn't know what he's talking about but posters on a tennis forum do.
intrepidish
Hall of Fame
Did I say the big 3 are automatically the best at everything or did I post experts who know the game infinitely better than any poster on TTW who said Nadal was the best volleyer?
If you're honest you'll recognize it was the latter. And if you're honest and not full of yourself, you'll recognize that Woodforde, McEnroe, Isner, Sinner and yes, Federer himself know these things infinitely better than you do. They don't just watch on TV and comment on a forum full of fans. They've seen Cressy play in person, as well as Zverev and Mahut by the way.
Maybe, just maybe, they have expertise you simply don't. And even if you disagree, it's a good idea to consider what they are saying seriously as it's not just some random guy saying it.
Rosstour
Talk Tennis Guru
Woodforde was asked to create the perfect player and literally left Federer out while including every other ATG. Then he said that Todd Woodbridge has the best overhead of all time. Ok Mark...
Guy's got an axe to grind with Fed, not sure why though.
intrepidish
Hall of Fame
If one wants to disqualify Woodforde for having an axe to grind, virtually no one on this forum can be trusted about anything.
Either way I think we all know that when Woodforde, McEnroe, Roger himself or Isner and Sinner for that matter make statements about players, they matter more than when fans do and for good reason. They have a deeper lived knowledge which is sorely lacking here.
Regarding Roger, it's still theoretically possible to think the sum of his parts are as great or greater than anyone else's even if you don't pick any one shot from him for your imaginary player. It takes more evidence to deduce an axe to grind.
Rosstour
Talk Tennis Guru
Woodforde was asked to create the ideal player, and chose Agassi for FH, Woodbridge for OH, and then literally mixed 2/3 players for things like RoS and BH
I thought it was just odd at the time, but these volley comments really give the appearance of a pattern and not a coincidence.
Listen, we all know Nadal is a great volleyer. But Woodforde is making a deliberate attempt to leave Fed out of conversations he belongs in. Why, I don't know. Maybe just personal preference.
Again no, Federer didn't chose Nadal, he said he is up there. That is not him choosing him to be the best vollyer and certainly not above himself. Not sure how you are trying to push this narrative when the language is very clear.
So Federer aside , there are three people you are quoting that are saying that Nadal is the best vollyer as of current. I still don't think that means anything as there maybe others who think differently.
But for the sake of argument , could you please forward the link or quote where McEnroe actually said that?
intrepidish
Hall of Fame
McEnroe has said many times in broadcasts that Nadal had the best volleys in the top 100. If you search here, you will see many threads where posters have written about it.
I mentioned McEnroe, Federer, Sinner, Isner and Woodforde though of course I wasn't attempting to be comprehensive.
Federer was creating his ideal player and chose Nadal for the volleys. You seem not to be able to accept this and seem intent on being deliberately litigious.
intrepidish
Hall of Fame
Woodforde can legitimately believe all of that and still think Roger taken as a whole is as good or better than the individuals he named for each of those shots. That's not in and of itself proof of anything deliberate on his part.
Sport
G.O.A.T.
Mark Woodforde is a former tennis player who has won 12 Grand Slams in doubles. He sure knows what he is talking about.
Cupcake
Hall of Fame
You have absolutely zero evidence for that. Keep in mind if attacking tennis was the current way to play, Nadal would have concentrated more on doing just that, honing his volley technique further. But instead he has concentrated on the style that takes down serve/volley players - or else more players would still be doing it.
This.
Russeljones
Talk Tennis Guru
Lol!
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