Martina Navratilova convinced Nadal will be the GOAT

[nadal_slam_king]

Absolutely right! I mean let's ignore the fact that Nadal is human and the more we beat our bodies the faster they break down. We must believe that Nadal is actually like wine and he only improves with age

Got news for you.... when you get older.... injuries are more frequent and usually more severe.

Except tendonitis isn't an "injury". People call it that because it's convenient. It's actually a condition. And guess who has it? Venus and Serena (in their knees and their wrists). Watch footage of Venus vs Hingis 2001 Australian Open SF. Hingis won 6-1 6-1. Watch Venus trying to serve. Who else has it? Roddick has knee tendonitis. Who else has it? Michael Jordan had knee and wrist tendonitis his entire career. What do all these people have in common? Long careers. Why? Because it isn't a career-ender, it's not known to get much worse with age, and it is usually treated without surgery. It is also cyclic, in that you can have it really bad, and then fully recover, then have it really bad and then fully recover etc. over and over again.

 

[Cyan]

I can't see Nadal winning more than 14 or Federer winning more than 18.


http://apurvadesai.com/2010/07/04/a-renewed-look-at-nadals-case-for-greatest-of-all-time-goat/

 

[Sentinel]

I can't see Nadal winning more than 14 or Federer winning more than 18.


http://apurvadesai.com/2010/07/04/a-renewed-look-at-nadals-case-for-greatest-of-all-time-goat/

that's a very interesting article, going of course on statistics of other players.

However, Nadal is *quite* unique, i think.

 

[cknobman]

Martina convinced she now prefers women.

Ya see Martina thinks a lot of nonsensical bullspit!

Remember 2007 when she and practically everyone else was saying Federer would go on to win 20+ slams?

LOL bandwagon jumper deluxe.

 

[Alex75]

i'll sum up the article for every one:

"Federer's time as the world's greatest ever men's player may prove short-lived because Nadal could surpass all the records"

may and could, future and conditonnal...
until then no debate.

 

[drakulie]

Martina is bias because Nadal is a lefty.

 

[pc1]

Martina is bias because Nadal is a lefty.

It does make sense what Martina is saying. She is saying that Nadal owns the French and in all the other tournaments Nadal will be the favorite or one of the co-favorites. So she figures Nadal has a great shot to win two majors a year for years.

 

[single_handed_champion]

Ridiculous. This theory assumes that Nadal plays and tweaks his game while the rest of the tour stagnates. You can bet Roger will launch a fresh charge at the Slams next year, Murray will be around, Soderling and Berdych will try to take that next step and Djokovic will look to build on his recent momentum.

If Roger cannot win Slams at 29, neither can Rafa (in fact, there is a worse chance of him doing do). I agree with the French Open, but he will win the majority of his remaining Slams in the next couple of years and then probably the French Open for a couple more years. He might very well retire at 28 or so.

 

[abmk]

It does make sense what Martina is saying. She is saying that Nadal owns the French and in all the other tournaments Nadal will be the favorite or one of the co-favorites. So she figures Nadal has a great shot to win two majors a year for years.

pc1,

seriously ? this is what she said:

'You can be pretty safe in predicting Nadal will claim two Slams a year for the next five years, so that puts him on 19 Slams and I'd be confident in saying he should get to 20 at least.


safe to say he will win two slams a year for the next FIVE years ? that makes sense, really ????

 

[ivan_the_terrible]

He's right handed though so he handicapped himself by playing with his weaker hand. He would have 25 slams right now if he decided to play with his actual good hand.

Fail. He's actually ambidextrous as per Uncle Toni.

The rest of your post is obviously sarcastic.

 

[ivan_the_terrible]

Nadal is apparently in a time warp.

Instead of getting older & slower, he's getting younger and faster.

Instead of his knees getting worse, they're getting better.

Since he's getting younger, the field is going the opposite way, therefore no one can conquer him.

At the age of 15, Rafa will hoist the trophy in celebration of his 40th GS victory.

 

[Chopin]

Fed's 2008 is absolutely not debatable unless you want to tell me that 3 250 are better than 3 masters + a 500, lol. Oh no wait, you're gonna tell me finals matter more than titles. (Not!)
And in 2009, yeah funny, but with his 0 injury advantage, Fed still managed to win fewer titles than kneeless Rafa. Odd, right?

Yes, Federer has never been injured...

 

[Sentinel]

If you listen carefully, at the end of the interview she mutters "Besides, Nadal is way hotter (than Roger)"

 

[bolo]

The 2 per year for next 5 years is a little crazy. But at least she is not talking about "class" like fed. fanboy bjorkman.

That's also why you have to respect a guy like wilander who saw very early on that for all of roger's ballerina moves nadal had some special characteristics of his own that would lead him to potentially win against fed. over and over again on the clay courts. Kudos to the people who actually pay attention to what's happening on the court.

 

[ivan_the_terrible]

The 2 per year for next 5 years is a little crazy. But at least she is not talking about "class" like fed. fanboy bjorkman.

That's also why you have to respect a guy like wilander who saw very early on that for all of roger's ballerina moves nadal had some special characteristics of his own that would lead him to potentially win against fed. over and over again on the clay courts. Kudos to the people who actually pay attention to what's happening on the court.

hmm..bolded for emphasis

 

[veroniquem]

Remember 2007 when she and practically everyone else was saying Federer would go on to win 20+ slams?

I thought it was mostly TW posters predicting that...
Truth is it's impossible to predict the exact number. Let's just enjoy the ride while it lasts.

 

[slice bh compliment]

If you listen carefully, at the end of the interview she mutters "Besides, Nadal is way hotter (than Roger)"

Hhahaha, good one.

Penis envy.

 

[veroniquem]

Yes, Federer has never been injured...

He wasn't injured in 2009, was he?

 

[rommil]

Martina is bias because Nadal is a lefty.

No. It's because Martina thinks Rafa is a woman.

 

[ashitaka2010]

The 2 per year for next 5 years is a little crazy. But at least she is not talking about "class" like fed. fanboy bjorkman.

That's also why you have to respect a guy like wilander who saw very early on that for all of roger's ballerina moves nadal had some special characteristics of his own that would lead him to potentially win against fed. over and over again on the clay courts. Kudos to the people who actually pay attention to what's happening on the court.

The 'balls', or lack of... gotta love Mats!

 

[veroniquem]

Martina is bias because Nadal is a lefty.

No, it's just because Nadal is more likeable, more exciting and more of a fighter.

 

[Omega_7000]

No. It's because Martina thinks Rafa is a woman.

and what's wrong with this assumption?

 

[Chopin]

He wasn't injured in 2009, was he?

No, Federer has never been injured or sick his entire life.

So, Federer won 8 slams before the age of 25...

And Nadal has won 9 and he turns 25 during the French. So, technically, Nadal could win in Australia and be two slams ahead of Federer when they were both 25.

At most he's two slams ahead and at the least he's only one slam ahead and somehow it's a sure bet that he'll even come close to breaking Federer's record?

Nadal has a long, long way to go...

 

[big bang]

Fail. He's actually ambidextrous as per Uncle Toni.

The rest of your post is obviously sarcastic.

No hes not! hes righthanded but learned to play lefthanded. Actually he cant use his left hand better than anyone else outside the court. Whos failing??

 

[bolo]

The 'balls', or lack of... gotta love Mats!

That was a pretty good clip. Imo it actually came out of wilander's respect for the federer game and how people would perceive fed's place in history if federer could never win the FO. Of course some people interpret that clip as wilander not being a fed. fanboy, but it's actually the opposite!

 

[Wozupniacki]

No, Federer has never been injured or sick his entire life.

Mononucleosis doesn't count?

 

[Chopin]

Mononucleosis doesn't count?

I was being sarcastic to our resident Nadal-troll.

 

[Wozupniacki]

I was being sarcastic to our resident Nadal-troll.

Ok. To new to be sure.

 

[selesian]

You are right. That is why Graf won the Golden Slam, nearly another Calendar Slam, defended every slam title atleast once (some more than once) atleast 1 slam for 6 years in a row already, a record 186 consecutive weeks ranked #1, and won 2 Olympic Golds, all before Seles was stabbed. And that is why when Seles returned the only slam she won was one Graf didnt play, why she was 2-3 vs Graf even while ranked #1, was 1-2 vs a way past her prime nearly retired Graf in late 98/99 while failing to conquer the new generation players Graf was able to. And why Seles averaged 1 game per set in their 2 grass meetings (one while Seles was ranked #1), and why she is 5-10 vs Graf lifetime and hasnt beaten her on any surface except clay and rebound ace (while taking many losses on clay as well). Nice try.

Davey, so you're back, posting the same old bilge...

 

[ivan_the_terrible]

No hes not! hes righthanded but learned to play lefthanded. Actually he cant use his left hand better than anyone else outside the court. Whos failing??

Are you calling Uncle Toni a liar? Please look it up, it's posted here somewhere. Uncle Toni said it in an interview (the same one where he convinced young Rafa that he was a magician). Uncle Toni even said the 'whole righty-to-lefty change" is blown out of proportion.

 

[TheTruth]

Definitely. Personally, that's what I've predicted since Miami 2005. I feel very flattered to be joined by Martina. Graf has also said in an interview that Rafa brings everything that tennis needs. Girls are smart!
Let the boys cling onto their Fedgod. Us girls can tell a great man when we see one

Women are more intuitive.

 

[nadal_slam_king]

Mononucleosis doesn't count?

His doctor said it was the lightest strain of mono a human can have. It allowed him to play professional tennis which says a lot. In fact he played far better in 2008 than he's playing in 2010. Maybe getting mono is a good thing?

 

[TheTruth]

Except tendonitis isn't an "injury". People call it that because it's convenient. It's actually a condition. And guess who has it? Venus and Serena (in their knees and their wrists). Watch footage of Venus vs Hingis 2001 Australian Open SF. Hingis won 6-1 6-1. Watch Venus trying to serve. Who else has it? Roddick has knee tendonitis. Who else has it? Michael Jordan had knee and wrist tendonitis his entire career. What do all these people have in common? Long careers. Why? Because it isn't a career-ender, it's not known to get much worse with age, and it is usually treated without surgery. It is also cyclic, in that you can have it really bad, and then fully recover, then have it really bad and then fully recover etc. over and over again.

Great post. I don't understand how people act like it's a career threatening injury. It's cyclical like you said.

 

[big bang]

Are you calling Uncle Toni a liar? Please look it up, it's posted here somewhere. Uncle Toni said it in an interview (the same one where he convinced young Rafa that he was a magician). Uncle Toni even said the 'whole righty-to-lefty change" is blown out of proportion.

You can find a video on youtube of rafa trying to do different things with his left hand, and he doesnt use it better than any other righthanded person! I dont care what some reporter wrote about what Toni said because in the video rafa talked about it himself. He uses his right hand for everything else besides playing tennis!

 

[msc886]

His doctor said it was the lightest strain of mono a human can have. It allowed him to play professional tennis which says a lot. In fact he played far better in 2008 than he's playing in 2010. Maybe getting mono is a good thing?

Yeah but compared to 2007 he was crap.

 

[msc886]

No, it's just because Nadal is more likeable, more exciting and more of a fighter.

That's entirely subjectice.

 

[big bang]

His doctor said it was the lightest strain of mono a human can have. It allowed him to play professional tennis which says a lot. In fact he played far better in 2008 than he's playing in 2010. Maybe getting mono is a good thing?

No Feddie was soo ill that he reached 3 finals and won 1 of them. Apparently the mono only kicked in when he faced Nadal.

 

[OddJack]

Yes, "simple maths" are hard for people to grasp.

Federer had won 11 slams before age 26 (and he won the US Open right after turning 26--within weeks). This is the point. Players start slipping once they get past 25 years of age or so and there's no reason to think that this won't happen to Nadal. You're also assuming that Federer won't win another few slams. Nadal will be turning 25 next year and things change quickly in tennis. If Nadal has a bad year next year, for whatever the reason, his chances of beating Federer's count could be greatly diminished--nothing is certain.

In fact, let's make a bet: if Nadal ends up with more slams than Federer, I'll retire from these Boards, never to post again, and if Nadal fails to break Federer's record (whatever that ends up being), then you shall retire, never to post again. What do you say?

I am in as well, good idea.

Anyone else wants to bet just let me know.

 

[OddJack]

Nadal shorten his career this year. He is running on reserve. Just look at his 2009 that followed 2008, now the same cycle starts, only this time it's worse. Just watch.

 

[rommil]

and what's wrong with this assumption?

I didn't say there was.

 

[bolo]

oddjack's been wrong so many times (and so badly too) that his saying "just watch" makes me even more eager to watch!

 

[nadal_slam_king]

Nadal shorten his career this year. He is running on reserve. Just look at his 2009 that followed 2008, now the same cycle starts, only this time it's worse. Just watch.

2009 wouldn't have been a problem if he had the 2010 doctor. The current tendonitis treatment only takes 3-4 days to recover the knee to 100%. He had tendonitis twice this year, it was no different to 2009 except the treatment was better this time.

 

[Xemi666]

I am in as well, good idea.

Anyone else wants to bet just let me know.

Why would anyone bet with you? You said you would become a Nadal fan if he won Wimbledon IIRC, well, it's obvious you didn't keep your end of the bargain.

 

[Jaitock1991]

I have no idea if she's being serious or sarcastic...

What the hell? She's talking about Slams as if they were to be nice little walks in the park. Maybe Fed once said something that made her angry...

 

[NamRanger]

I think in terms of quality of play, Nadal already is the so called "GOAT", though I realize not everyone will agree with that. But Nadal playing at his absolute top level beats everyone. So there you go. No other combination of power, angles, speed, movement and tenacity in the history of the game.

I just spat out my coffee. I guess you never heard of guys like Borg, Laver, McEnroe, Sampras, Federer, Agassi, etc. all who at their peaks could roll Nadal at his best on any non-clay surface.

 

[abmk]

I just spat out my coffee. I guess you never heard of guys like Borg, Laver, McEnroe, Sampras, Federer, Agassi, etc. all who at their peaks could roll Nadal at his best on any non-clay surface.

hey don't forget that according to TennisandMusic, rafa did not play his best tennis at AO 2009 ... wonder what rafa's best tennis on a slow HC is then ? :roll:

perhaps T&M is the only one who has some kind of super-vision to view this version of nadal who can beat any other player at their respective bests on non-clay surfaces ! :lol:

 

[Xemi666]

I just spat out my coffee. I guess you never heard of guys like Borg, Laver, McEnroe, Sampras, Federer, Agassi, etc. all who at their peaks could roll Nadal at his best on any non-clay surface.

What is Agassi doing on that list? Borg would roll Nadal on any non-clay surface? That's why he won so many USO, right? :lol:

 

[borg number one]

What is Agassi doing on that list? Borg would roll Nadal on any non-clay surface? That's why he won so many USO, right? :lol:

This is really apples and oranges. Nadal is excellent on non-clay surfaces now. He's improved a whole lot, adding versatility to his game and he has improved his serve in particular. So, if we look at say indoor courts, hard courts, and grass courts, we need to ask a couple of questions when comparing him to different players, especially the older players. If we compare him to Borg, Laver, McEnroe, Sampras, Federer, Agassi, we have to ask, what equipment (exactly is being used, racquets and strings). Also, as to grass courts, what surface at Wimbledon (faster courts or the now slower courts?) In the time of McEnroe and Borg, you only had one hard court major, the US Open, and they only switched to hard courts there in 1978. So, for Borg, he had 4 chances at a hard court major. He lost in the finals at the US Open there in 78, 80, and 81 to McEnroe/Connors. Yet, on indoor courts for example, he won the big Masters tourneys in NY in both Jan. of 1980 and 1981 (going 5-0 vs. Lendl, Connors, and McEnroe). Don't forget that by the time he was 25, he had won 5 straight W titles and made that 6th straight final on the old, fast grass courts too.

 

[Xemi666]

This is really apples and oranges. Nadal is excellent on non-clay surfaces now. He's improved a whole lot, adding versatility to his game and he has improved his serve in particular. So, if we look at say indoor courts, hard courts, and grass courts, we need to ask a couple of questions when comparing him to different players, especially the older players. If we compare him to Borg, Laver, McEnroe, Sampras, Federer, Agassi, we have to ask, what equipment (exactly is being used, racquets and strings). Also, as to grass courts, what surface at Wimbledon (faster courts or the now slower courts?) In the time of McEnroe and Borg, you only had one hard court major, the US Open, and they only switched to hard courts there in 1978. So, for Borg, he had 4 chances at a hard court major. He lost in the finals at the US Open there in 78, 80, and 81 to McEnroe/Connors. Yet, on indoor courts for example, he won the big Masters tourneys in NY in both Jan. of 1980 and 1981 (going 5-0 vs. Lendl, Connors, and McEnroe). Don't forget that by the time he was 25, he had won 5 straight W titles and made that 6th straight final on the old, fast grass courts too.

So, we should count Nadal's hardcourts masters too? A masters is not a slam. I know Nadal is excellent on non-clay surfaces now, that's why I was asking that guy why he says Agassi or Borg would roll him easily on non-clay surfaces. Looks like some people still think Nadal is just a clay courter, big mistake.

 

[borg number one]

So, we should count Nadal's hardcourts masters too? A masters is not a slam. I know Nadal is excellent on non-clay surfaces now, that's why I was asking that guy why he says Agassi or Borg would roll him easily on non-clay surfaces. Looks like some people still think Nadal is just a clay courter, big mistake.

I hear you. Those folks would be wrong then. That's the thing many people don't realize. Borg was actually good/great on ALL non-clay surfaces. He won 5 hard court titles, 22 indoor titles, and 6 grass court titles (5 Wimbledons). That's just the official ATP tourneys listed on the website. The same thing is true of Nadal now. The guy is good/great on EVERY non-clay surface. You name it and he can play on it. Then with BOTH players, you have the red clay. They're arguably the two greatest clay courters of all time. Many similarities between the two in my opinion. Borg brought me so much joy when he played. These days, Nadal is a modern version in many ways. Make no mistake about it, I give Nadal enormous credit for his non-clay prowess. The '09 AO title and the '10 US Open title were both huge statement wins for him. He may be most vulnerable on hard courts, but he is basically as good as anyone on hard courts/grass courts now if he is healthy (even when the opponent is at 100%). Then, he has all those intanglibles that help him even more at the majors (5 set strength, mental toughness, self-confidence, etc). For quite a while now, I've thought that Nadal would ultimately go down as a true great, along with others in the "first tier" such as Laver, Borg, Sampras, and Federer. Many also consider such players as Rosewall, Gonzalez, and Tilden in that very elite group of players.