Mary Pierce is a cheater - "Spoiler"

156MPHserve

Professional
I feel SO bad for Dementieva! It must've been hard to lose in the finals last year, but then this year her serve was much better and she even beat Davenport who does basically what she does with a huge serve to back it up. She must've felt so much confidence and with a much better first serve she thought she had a pretty good chance. To lose to Mary by such cheap tactics is just sooo damn cruel. She was even winning too... she must be slapping herself like crazy for not beng able to keep focus! Poor ED!
 

bcslice

Rookie
Is there anyone else who doesn't really care? I mean, Dementieva is such a headcase that it's hard to feel badly for her. Even Davenport mentioned that she plays worse when she's ahead in her postmatch interview after losing to Elena. So, it makes sense that Dementieva lost the second set. And the bottom line is, you still have to hit the big shots on the important points. And if Mary wants to win the US Open tonight, she'll have to hit those same shots to win the match. No sympathy. This is the big time. If these players can't deal with these kinds of distractions (or rain, hostile crowds, injuries, etc.) then they don't deserve to win the major titles.

No more sympathy for professional tennis players! The word professional means that they should be able to deal with anything and be ready to play their best. If Mary used the rules to her benefit, oh well. Dementieva still could have won this match. And she didn't. She lost. Move on.
 
She has all those "ridiculous" faces and choked. She got scared and used time out to cool Dementieva off otherwise Dementieva was on a roll and would finish her off on the court.
She was going to get crushed. What a chicken. But it worked. Do I think it's fair? No, absolutely not. And that "friend" excuse was ridiculous as well. *****.
 

LendlFan

Semi-Pro
BigboyDan said:
You think that any tournament wants a player to default in a semifinal match because of an injury that can be rectified *********?

Huh?

What do you think the paying fans would think?

Puhlease.
Defaulting a match is not the point .. Of course nobody wants a default and it doesn't matter whether it's the Semis, Finals or 1st RD. The point is, presenting a situation where the Player can not use the Rule to change the game.

If a person is injured to a point where they can not play, then the opponent should get a win. If a player says oh my poor back is aching, then they should not have the luxury of using that to change the dynamics of the game.

If Defaulting matches goes against Viewer ticket sales and Commercial advertisement, then a serious reduction of time allowed needs to be placed.

I am not convinced that Pierce was hurting to the point that she needed all that attention. Think about it, what she got was a nice little massage which gave her time to time about what to do against somebody that was kicking her butt.
 

MHK

New User
Have always really liked Pierce and never imagined the strength of feeling against her. Admire her desire to come back from long spells out the game and still achieve great success when most had written her off; liked the fact that when she was younger and her nickname was "The Body", her focus was always on tennis and not image. Perhaps she was more aware than some of the fickleness of fans who call female players "ugly" and "old" (at the grand age of 30) and who move their attention to the next 16 year old Eastern-European to come along. Liked how she eventually coped with her father and had to make some difficult decisions in the very public gaze.

Didn't see the match, and quite like Dementieva, but it strikes me that at this level of tennis you should be able to cope with most things are are thrown at you - Dementieva didn't cope and didn't manage to play her best when it mattered.

Hope that Pierce puts on a good show, though I still want Clijsters to win as along with Mauresmo, she is the most talented player not to have won a major and I love her attitude.
 

ACE of Hearts

Bionic Poster
I am gonna tune in tonight just to see Pierce get whipped or too se if she has it in her, to pull another injury timeout.
 

janipyt05

Professional
i think the issuse of time out is fine but when u take a time out when u are clearly losing now thats another issuse. and y when the trainers comes out and touches the spot can't they tell if someone is telling a porkie pie.

About mary's time out, the rule is there but once again tennis is about sportmanship and her taking that time out when she was not playing well,only showed that she was doing it to get ahead, and that is not fair at all. The rules need to b looked at, 12 minutes is far too long. the 3 minute rule is fine but 12 minutes out of a game ur not even serving after thats too much. mary did cheat even if u think that she had the right she should hav some flipping respect that wat she was doing was not right.

Mary does tend to play slow which is fine and i can understand that but the rule of time out hav got to change u can see what it does when someone abuses the system that's clearly there to b used wne really needed.

Your tryin to tell me her back her leg and her eyes were hurting at the same time she should hav jus retired from the game to begin with if she had all thoughs problems b4 the start of the match. she was faking it big time and does not deserve to win that match at all. i hope kim give her a run for her money. kim is pretty patien and does not let such bother her that much so she should b fine.

JUST LOOK AT THE SHARAPOVA AND KIM MATCH MARIA COULD HAV TAKEN A LONG TIME OUT AS WELL TO BUT DIDN'T. SHE JUS GOT HERSELF BACK IN BECAUSE SHE KNOWS HOW SHE CAN REALLY PLAY. KIM JUST PLAYED BETTER. THERE WAS NONE OF THIS 12 MINUTE TIME OUT CRAP. MARY USED IT TO HER ADVANTAGE, RATHER THAN REAL INJURIES
 

Jack the Hack

Hall of Fame
janipyt05 said:
About mary's time out, the rule is there but once again tennis is about sportmanship and her taking that time out when she was not playing well,only showed that she was doing it to get ahead, and that is not fair at all. The rules need to b looked at, 12 minutes is far too long. the 3 minute rule is fine but 12 minutes out of a game ur not even serving after thats too much. mary did cheat even if u think that she had the right she should hav some flipping respect that wat she was doing was not right.
Have you read my earlier posts?

Pierce has a history of back problems, and was grabbing at her lower back and twisting herself around like something was wrong from the very first point. In addition, she strained her thigh in the second set of her win over Mauresmo, but did not have it taped up before the Dementieva match. She was also shaking her leg and stomping her foot to try and get it loosened up the entire first set. Obviously, there was something physically bothering her the entire set, and she was within her rights to try and address it so she could play on without the injuries distracting her.
Suggesting that she "faked" the injury means that she had this elaborate scheme to act injured throughout the first set, which she would purposely lose, in order to take a timeout which would send Dementieva into a downward spiral that she could never recover from... obviously, baloney...

Regarding the excessiveness of the 12 minutes, this was also overblown by the commentators. See my earlier post regarding a breakdown of the time and the rulebook... this was not that unusual, and the whole thing is a non-story!
 

Redflea

Hall of Fame
My bottom line is that the rules should be revised, based on the standard that either you're ready to play, or you aren't. If you aren't (due to fitness problems, injury received on court, or mental fatigue), we're sorry, but you obviously aren't ready to play at this level, and maybe it's time you moved on. Allow one three minute time out, once in a match, and if after that you can't continue, hasta baby.

If the USTA isn't willing to reign in the time outs, they could balance the equation by charging players for the time out...some number of points or, preferrably, a full game (they forfeit three points, their next service game, etc.). That way players will at least think twice about about spending an "injury" time out on a back rub.
 

West Coast Ace

G.O.A.T.
Jack the Hack said:
Regarding the excessiveness of the 12 minutes, this was also overblown by the commentators. See my earlier post regarding a breakdown of the time and the rulebook... this was not that unusual, and the whole thing is a non-story!
Having to stand around for 12 minutes after winning the 1st set is not a 'non-story.'
 

BreakPoint

Bionic Poster
Redflea said:
If the USTA isn't willing to reign in the time outs, they could balance the equation by charging players for the time out...some number of points or, preferrably, a full game (they forfeit three points, their next service game, etc.). That way players will at least think twice about about spending an "injury" time out on a back rub.
Redflea, I think that's a great idea!!!!
 
D

Duccy

Guest
I think a lot of people are overlooking the fact that Pierce called for a trainer to treat an injury, which took 12 minutes to tend. I don't know about you but if it truly was an "injury", I don't care what anyone says, you don't come back from an actual injury in mere 12 minutes to pummel the S**T out of your opponent who had the upper hand first set. Mary Pierce's victory would have been more believable if she almost did not pull off serving Dementieva frosted breadsticks with cream filling...

Yes they are dubbed pros, and we are led to believe that they can handle the stress of being denied an easy victory, but then again we forget they are also human... they bleed, they cry, heck they even eat. Fact is I believe Pierce pulled the same crap Djokovic pulled on Monfils, except Pierce did a better job of lying, (Djokovic collapsed on court complaining about unable to breathe, but when the trainer came to tend to him, his complaint was cramps in his calves...) Kudos to Pierce to pulling this off.
 

LendlFan

Semi-Pro
BreakPoint said:
Redflea, I think that's a great idea!!!!
In order for that to be a fair equation, the Trainer as I said before needs to be ********* and not some 5 or 10 minutes away before they even get to the Player. Having to forfiet points is not a bad idea if you need extra time because at least it may balance the situation but even then it could cause problems.

People come to see a match where the best Player wins. Winning by Default or Point reduction is not what people pay for. Physical evaluations need to be made prior to induction of a tournament. If a Player sustains an injury during play of serious nature where a Trainer needs to massage them for ten minutes is not fair.

So what do you think? 3 minutes given for things such as bandage or wraps applied, then 1 point deduction for every minute after?
 

DashaandSafin

Hall of Fame
Is it just me or is this injury time out thing getting used more at the USO than any other tennis event? Ive been hearing nonstop about it...from Djovkic to other players.
 

Cybele

Semi-Pro
this tournament certainly has been notable for particularly egregious examples of pulling a sickie just when your opponent is steam-rollering right over you...

although I, for one, would exempt Andy Murray's spectacular projectile vomiting from this category.

Murray pulls a sickie when he's winning.
I don't think he's quite grasped the principle of the whole thing yet.
 

joe sch

Legend
Pierce plays by the rules and is a good sport !
The ironic point with this issue is the Sharapova actually beat herself by taking the bathroom break before the 3rd Set against Clysters ! Again, this tactic is not cheating but part of the rules and it can *backfire* depending on how it works and which players momentum is disturbed !
 

janipyt05

Professional
im sori there is no way to justify wat mary did. not wen she was losing in the first set it did upset elena's rythm, i don't care mary had a long time out at the rite time and it helped her suddenly ur telling me after a 12 min rub down she can run around and play like she had no problem jus how can u explain that. it took her less time to get up and play better than it did to play worse in the first set. i hav lost respect for mary even if she had prior back pains look at andre agassi played through it in the french open. the rules need to to be looked at big time im sori she took the **** out the rules. same with djokovic a sport that is so wonderful to watch should not b taken for a joke with ridiculous time outs

SHARAPOVA WENT TO CHANGE HER WET SOAKING DRESS NOT TO GET A RUB DOWN AND THEN COME BACK RUNNING AROUND LIKE NOTHING HAPPENED. SHE ALSO SAID SHE RUN OUT OF STEAM AND THAT SHE GAVE IT HER ALL.
 

NoBadMojo

G.O.A.T.
Cybele made a funny! good one! ha!
mary Pierce is a drama queen..wouldnt surprise me if pretending to have multiple injuries wasnt done for even more drama and to ice elena for the longest period of time possible..it's win at all costs tennis for many who abuse the injury timeout rule. I think it's cheating..even though it may be within the rules, it certanly isnt within the intent of the rules..and it's certainly bad sportsmanship and exhibits a total lack of class and respect for your opponent.
 

kosmikgroove

New User
My biggest beef with Pierce wasn't with what she pulled on court, but how she addressed this issue in her off-court interview. her justification for taking the timeout was used to make it seem plausable, yet she contradicts herself; that is why i find it so hard to believe that Mary was NOT using the 12 minutes to take the heat outta Dementieva's game.

Here's what she said when addressing why she did not come out on court already strapped down: "I guess I just didn't want my opponent to know that there was anything wrong with me."

Here's what she said when addressing sportsmanship: I'm 30 years old. I've been on the tour 17 years. I had injuries that I needed to attend to to help me. I was hoping that would help, that I could play better, and it did. I just needed to do what I needed to do for my body and that was really it.

This contradiciton is so blatant and painful to hear. So which is it Mary? If you were TRULY worried about doing what was best for your body, get yourself straped prior to the match, because no professional athlete of her calibur would even consider playing with an injury. (ESPECIALLY not when the Final is one match away).
 

jukka1970

Professional
I'm sorry, but I don't feel Mary Pierce cheated at all. There is a reason for the injury time out and it's used when needed. She even spoke about it today, where she said the trainer loosened up the problem in the back. She also still had her quad taped up today. And today it needed to be fixed, and she waited to have it fixed, because it was hanging versus not enough pressure on the quad. Personally I think Dementieva only gets the attention because of her looks versus her playing, reminds me of the one that played doubles with Hingis. The one that was suppose to do so well in singles at the slams and never got anywhere.

If Dementieva had a problem, she can file a grievance, but she lose the grievance. But if we're all placing blame on people. Lets go back to her match with Davenport where some Russian was yelling during Davenports serve during the tie breaker, and I'll bet it was the coach. So you know what Dementieva, I don't want to hear it, face the loss and go home.
 

LendlFan

Semi-Pro
Killer said:
If a pro athlete can't fight through adversity and win, who amongst us can? If you get up a set on an opponent, shouldn't you be able to keep a focus on what made you win that set, regardless how long an injury delay is? If you lose after a delay, chances are likely that your opponent made better use out of it than you did, plain and simple.
Depends on the Player, I personally have experienced taking a little off my shots when my opponent was limping or claimed they had some sort of problem.
Remember Ivan Lendl against Michael Chang (French Open) ? Ivan was killing him until he saw Chang's legs were cramped and Ivan's game went out the window.

There's something psychological that happens which speaks to our sense of compassion and caring that appears to be a stronger emotion in some of us than the desire to destroy.

And we must not forget that little guy sitting on our shoulder that's whispering in our ear that this other person is playing games right now trying to get an advantage and that starts clawing away at you creating anger instead of what you were thinking before which was purely competitiveness.
 

hopeless

New User
LendlFan said:
Depends on the Player, I personally have experienced taking a little off my shots when my opponent was limping or claimed they had some sort of problem.
Remember Ivan Lendl against Michael Chang (French Open) ? Ivan was killing him until he saw Chang's legs were cramped and Ivan's game went out the window.

There's something psychological that happens which speaks to our sense of compassion and caring that appears to be a stronger emotion in some of us than the desire to destroy.

And we must not forget that little guy sitting on our shoulder that's whispering in our ear that this other person is playing games right now trying to get an advantage and that starts clawing away at you creating anger instead of what you were thinking before which was purely competitiveness.
Having the mental focus to clear one's head of distractions and win is the hallmark of a great player as well

Personally I have eased up several times in the past (for various reasons) against opponents that seemed to be struggling and paid the price for it. And I would say that it is my own fault that I lost focus
 

Paddyjoe

New User
You have an injury and can't play -- forfeit! Is there a players' union that keeps the timeouts on the table? The talk by the commentators about lawyers makes me extremely nervous.

It is obvious, however, that one body and mind are going up against another body and mind out there; you keep yours fit by work off the court and, with a little luck, your skill will be better than the other person's.

Look, tennis is a combination of many things, some quite indefinable. They all have to work together to achieve a win. You can bandage and tape and massage the body, but there is no bandage for the emotions. No one brings the same combination of elements to any two matches. That is why anyone in the top rankings can beat just about anyone else on any given day.

You have to be mentally tough to beat the better opponent, and yourself sometimes. If your emotions fail because your opponent gets into your mind, that is YOUR problem, not his. You work out to make your body fast, to stay out on the court for five sets, to come back for the next match. If you can't do that in some match, that is YOUR problem.

The court is not a training space for multiple massages and lengthy stretching out and so forth. If you have a cramp, one time out for a couple of minutes to see if it can be fixed. If not, you lose. You lose because you did not do your job off court to make your body fitter. If your short time out gets under the skin of the other guy, then he loses because he did not do his job off court in becoming mentally tough. The lawyers have no place in this.

This is a sport where continuous action is part of the stategy of the game itself. These long, multiple timeouts are eating into the very soul of tennis. It is not that Mary Pierce cheated; it is that the rules are breaking down to accommodate those who do not want to do the work off court or who expect their lesser mind/body to succeed against a fitter combo and who will not take a loss with class.

Let's expect that tennis will stay tennis, even with all of the technical inprovements to equipment and all of the fluff to get paid attendance and television audiences. Let's demand that tennis keep its soul -- hard, quick, continuous play until one is the victor and one is the vanquished. The arguments on court, the trainer timeouts (needed or fake) are destroying the soul.
 

Zverev

Professional
Dementieva should have taken anotehr 12 minutes for straight after Pierce 12 minutes, that would be fun...
 
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