masters 1000 reform proposal

I think the Masters 1000 tournaments need to be changed in terms of when and where they are played.

First of all, Shanghai is irrelevant and should be canceled forever. It’s at an awkward part of the season and I don’t even remember the last time it’s been played.

Secondly, there are too many clay masters events (3) and no grass events. Because of this, Madrid should be a 500 tournament as it doesn’t even play like clay, it is way too fast of a surface. Instead Halle should be a Masters 1000 tournament, on grass, which would make the grass season much more significant. This would mean the 8 Masters 1000 tournaments would be:

Indian Wells
Miami
Monte Carlo
Rome
Halle
Canada
Cincinnati
Paris
 

Julius Caesar

Professional
Madrid is awesome tournament. It s really one of its kind, with its specific clay bounce conditions. This year its gonna be awesome. Hopefully Nadal & Alcaraz will teach Djokovic another lesson.
 
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nolefam_2024

Bionic Poster
I think the Masters 1000 tournaments need to be changed in terms of when and where they are played.

First of all, Shanghai is irrelevant and should be canceled forever. It’s at an awkward part of the season and I don’t even remember the last time it’s been played.

Secondly, there are too many clay masters events (3) and no grass events. Because of this, Madrid should be a 500 tournament as it doesn’t even play like clay, it is way too fast of a surface. Instead Halle should be a Masters 1000 tournament, on grass, which would make the grass season much more significant. This would mean the 8 Masters 1000 tournaments would be:

Indian Wells
Miami
Monte Carlo
Rome
Halle
Canada
Cincinnati
Paris
Why Halle? It's irrelevant. Queens club has history. Best draws too.

Shanghai is the only Asian big tournament. No it should not be cancelled where 60% of population and around 45% or some gdp is coming from.
 

DSH

Talk Tennis Guru
I think the Masters 1000 tournaments need to be changed in terms of when and where they are played.

First of all, Shanghai is irrelevant and should be canceled forever. It’s at an awkward part of the season and I don’t even remember the last time it’s been played.

Secondly, there are too many clay masters events (3) and no grass events. Because of this, Madrid should be a 500 tournament as it doesn’t even play like clay, it is way too fast of a surface. Instead Halle should be a Masters 1000 tournament, on grass, which would make the grass season much more significant. This would mean the 8 Masters 1000 tournaments would be:

Indian Wells
Miami
Monte Carlo
Rome
Halle
Canada
Cincinnati
Paris
Imagine complaining about a surface that has half the number of tournaments in that category compared to hard courts.
Your whining makes no sense!
:whistle:
 

nolefam_2024

Bionic Poster
In future there will be more pivot to Asia. No one cares about morals when it comes to money.
Christiano is playing in Saudi.
F1 tournaments are in Saudi and Baku.
Tennis is having exhos in middle east.
If not for pandemic and peng shui, tennis was pivoting to China, and no matter how many human rights violations happen, in future tennis will pivot to China.
Having bulk of tennis in Europe worked since beginning but it will change decidedly.
 

Azure

G.O.A.T.
In future there will be more pivot to Asia. No one cares about morals when it comes to money.
Christiano is playing in Saudi.
F1 tournaments are in Saudi and Baku.
Tennis is having exhos in middle east.
If not for pandemic and peng shui, tennis was pivoting to China, and no matter how many human rights violations happen, in future tennis will pivot to China.
Having bulk of tennis in Europe worked since beginning but it will change decidedly.
Truth
 

DSH

Talk Tennis Guru
In future there will be more pivot to Asia. No one cares about morals when it comes to money.
Christiano is playing in Saudi.
F1 tournaments are in Saudi and Baku.
Tennis is having exhos in middle east.
If not for pandemic and peng shui, tennis was pivoting to China, and no matter how many human rights violations happen, in future tennis will pivot to China.
Having bulk of tennis in Europe worked since beginning but it will change decidedly.
With artificial intelligence in full swing, players will no longer be needed to entertain the public.
:eek:
 

nolefam_2024

Bionic Poster
TsiTsiPas wants Grass and Clay seasons to be longer

If grass season is longer some of these next gens will be proper tennis players instead of claybots. I swear this Zverev Coric gen all were claybots. Only exception was Meddy.

In new gen hopefully FAA and Rune will be non successful on clay. I don't want many claybots ruining tennis.
 

nolefam_2024

Bionic Poster
More like HC masters should be removed they dominate the tour 6/9

Cincinnati and Paris can go in the bin. Especially Paris, pointless event.

LOL @ removing Madrid. Far more of a spectacle than Cincinnati and Paris put together.
Only masters 1000 on indoors and people want it gone. Lol.
Some players don't have many good indoor titles. Doesn't make it pointless..
 

Razer

G.O.A.T.
If grass season is longer some of these next gens will be proper tennis players instead of claybots. I swear this Zverev Coric gen all were claybots. Only exception was Meddy.

In new gen hopefully FAA and Rune will be non successful on clay. I don't want many claybots ruining tennis.

Grass should always have had 2 Masters.

Halle is a good court, very fast, Queens too, it would have been good to have them as a significant tournament where top seeds attend.
 

nolefam_2024

Bionic Poster
IW and Miami are premier tournaments, they have 32 seed system while others are 16, you want it removed ?
Yes. This will shift whole calendar. Make more space for Asia. USA has 1 month with just 2 tournaments post hard court slam and pre clay court. Makes no sense..
 

jm1980

Talk Tennis Guru
Imagine complaining about a surface that has half the number of tournaments in that category compared to hard courts.
Your whining makes no sense!
:whistle:
HC is a much more versatile surface that can be tailored to suit various game styles. A slow HC is not the same as a fast HC

Clay on the other hand always favors those who like slower, high bouncing conditions
 

Sephiroth

Hall of Fame
UK has had enough premier events, Wimbledon and WTF for a decade and that's coming from someone who lives there. I would make Halle a Masters 1000 or transition between Queens/Halle like Canada does

IW
Miami
MC
Madrid
Rome
Halle
Canada
Shanghai
Paris

actually Cincinnati is the most pointless one
 

James P

G.O.A.T.
I would like a grass masters. Make Hamburg the grass masters and extend the grass season 1 week. I think Madrid should stay. I'm cool with a tournament dropping (also cool with an expansion to 10 masters), but I don't think it should be a clay event.
 

DSH

Talk Tennis Guru
HC is a much more versatile surface that can be tailored to suit various game styles. A slow HC is not the same as a fast HC

Clay on the other hand always favors those who like slower, high bouncing conditions
As far as I know, neither Madrid now nor Hamburg in the past are the same conditions as in Monte Carlo and Rome.
And you should already know that for the ATP to hold a Masters 1000 on grass there would have to be a large investment that, after what has been seen, nobody wants to assume.
:D
 

nolefam_2024

Bionic Poster
2022 Prize Money Only for ATP Tour

IW $8,800,000
Miami €6,575,560 around $7,135,567
MC €5,779,335 around $6,271,445
Madrid €6,575,560 around $7,135,567
Rome €5,415,410 around $5,876,532
Rogers cup $5,926,545
Cincy $6,280,880
Bercy €5,415,410 around $5,876,532

Turin $14,750,000


I am not looking at draw sizes and WTA etc here. Pure spending capacity. Yes IW, Miami are highest paying followed by Madrid. But both are getting 2 weeks of coverage instead of 1. So more chances for making money too.
 

Localfoc

Rookie
I would go further and make BOTH Halle and Queens M1000 events, played one after another, not at the same time. I would also push Wimbledon back 2-3 weeks so there is at least a week's break after the end of the Clay season and the start of the first grass tournament, and also a week's break between the last pre Wimbledon tournament( Queens or Halle) and Wimbledon itself.

This would give players the right balance of rest and preparation time for Wimbledon. This will also mean more top players play these pre-wimbledon grass events.

This extended schedule will also make the grass season actually feel like a real season and not a three and half-four week circus that it currently is.
 

Razer

G.O.A.T.
HC is a much more versatile surface that can be tailored to suit various game styles. A slow HC is not the same as a fast HC

Clay on the other hand always favors those who like slower, high bouncing conditions

Clay and Grass and unique surfaces, these should be always relevant. Tour has become rubbish now because of everyone being a hard court player. Natural surface like Grass always needs players who should be rewarded for being good on it. Djokovic is lucky field is garbage on grass, the reward is that instead of being on 5 wimbledons he is on 7+ now, specialists in young generation would have ended his runs in 2021 and 2022 but that did not happen, this way Grass will be dead soon. Tennis will be affected, records are useless if next gen are not there to take it seriously.

2022 Prize Money Only for ATP Tour

IW $8,800,000
Miami €6,575,560 around $7,135,567
MC €5,779,335 around $6,271,445
Madrid €6,575,560 around $7,135,567
Rome €5,415,410 around $5,876,532
Rogers cup $5,926,545
Cincy $6,280,880
Bercy €5,415,410 around $5,876,532

Turin $14,750,000


I am not looking at draw sizes and WTA etc here. Pure spending capacity. Yes IW, Miami are highest paying followed by Madrid. But both are getting 2 weeks of coverage instead of 1. So more chances for making money too.

Sadly money is a very important factor in all this. Asia doesn't have the Tennis crowd to bring in a lot of money I think so. It is easy to say that give a slam to asia or give a masters to asia, but then the question is does the region hosting the tournament have a sporting culture in tennis with enough local players whom the local crowd will want to see ????
 

nolefam_2024

Bionic Poster
Clay and Grass and unique surfaces, these should be always relevant. Tour has become rubbish now because of everyone being a hard court player. Natural surface like Grass always needs players who should be rewarded for being good on it. Djokovic is lucky field is garbage on grass, the reward is that instead of being on 5 wimbledons he is on 7+ now, specialists in young generation would have ended his runs in 2021 and 2022 but that did not happen, this way Grass will be dead soon. Tennis will be affected, records are useless if next gen are not there to take it seriously.



Sadly money is a very important factor in all this. Asia doesn't have the Tennis crowd to bring in a lot of money I think so. It is easy to say that give a slam to asia or give a masters to asia, but then the question is does the region hosting the tournament have a sporting culture in tennis with enough local players whom the local crowd will want to see ????
Shanghai does. China Is super Uber rich
 

Azure

G.O.A.T.
I would go further and make BOTH Halle and Queens M1000 events, played one after another, not at the same time. I would also push Wimbledon back 2-3 weeks so there is at least a week's break after the end of the Clay season and the start of the first grass tournament, and also a week's break between the last pre Wimbledon tournament( Queens or Halle) and Wimbledon itself.

This would give players the right balance of rest and preparation time for Wimbledon. This will also mean more top players play these pre-wimbledon grass events.

This extended schedule will also make the grass season actually feel like a real season and not a three and half-four week circus that it currently is.
Pushing back wimbledon will be detrimental to the grass. Its best grown in July. Thats what I always heard.
 

Ombelibable

Professional
The problem with Queen's is that it doesn't the seating capacity for a Masters tournament

Remove Madrid though, could not agree more with this one


Time for Hamburg to return to masters status!

ljaxilsyt0b91.jpg
 

jm1980

Talk Tennis Guru
Time for Hamburg to return to masters status!

ljaxilsyt0b91.jpg
I was really hoping for Madrid to be demoted once Nadal retired, but now that Spain has Alcaraz they will probably keep it for a while.

Maybe they could shuffle Madrid back into the indoor swing... It makes no sense to play Madrid on clay
 

kevin qmto

Hall of Fame
Why Halle? It's irrelevant. Queens club has history. Best draws too.

Shanghai is the only Asian big tournament. No it should not be cancelled where 60% of population and around 45% or some gdp is coming from.
I’d be ok with that, but you’d have to move Queens a couple weeks back otherwise it’s too close to wimbledon.
 

Purestriker

Legend
I think the Masters 1000 tournaments need to be changed in terms of when and where they are played.

First of all, Shanghai is irrelevant and should be canceled forever. It’s at an awkward part of the season and I don’t even remember the last time it’s been played.

Secondly, there are too many clay masters events (3) and no grass events. Because of this, Madrid should be a 500 tournament as it doesn’t even play like clay, it is way too fast of a surface. Instead Halle should be a Masters 1000 tournament, on grass, which would make the grass season much more significant. This would mean the 8 Masters 1000 tournaments would be:

Indian Wells
Miami
Monte Carlo
Rome
Halle
Canada
Cincinnati
Paris
I think it is fine the way it is. If you want more grass masters events, just add one. No need to reduce anything.
 

nolefam_2024

Bionic Poster
I think it is fine the way it is. If you want more grass masters events, just add one. No need to reduce anything.
Players like Alcaraz are getting injured and no way there should be 10th masters. They can move AO to March. Have Asian swing in Jan. Then give some space in between RG and Wimbledon. Wimbledon pushed back by a week means nothing.

Jan to March Asia to Melbourne ( non NA non Europe tournaments)
April to July European clay swing plus extended grass swing
August to October (NA)
October November (Europe)
 

The Blond Blur

G.O.A.T.
If I said it once I’ve said it a thousand times. Just make Hamburg a GC tournament and restore its MS1000 status. It already has the infrastructure in place as far as seating goes, and there’s more than enough wiggle room to accommodate it on the calendar. We don’t need to remove any existing MS1000 tournament to make it happen.

That being said, if the powers that be wouldn’t be willing to budge on slightly restructuring the calendar then a HC tourney should bite the bullet. Too many of those buggers anyway. If I had to pick one it’d be Shanghai. It’s by far the most awkwardly situated on the current 9 we have now.
 

socallefty

G.O.A.T.
I like the season as it is today except for the fact that there are no big tournaments to prepare for the AO except for team competitions that resemble exhibitions and small tournaments. I would upgrade one of the ATP tournaments before the AO to a Masters level.

Most of the players are happy to have a short grass season and I wonder how the global ratings are for Halle/Queens etc. compared to the clay tournaments in the run up to the FO. I watch the clay tournaments, but don’t enjoy grass tennis and watch only the 2nd week of Wimbledon typically.
 

insideguy

G.O.A.T.
Most of these ideas are dumb. The reason usa has 3 masters is they have 3 facilities to hold them at. Countries just don’t magically build stuff. And I’ve said this for years Hamburg has the infrastructure move it and make it a grass masters.

The rest is nonsense you don’t just make something a masters. A tournament would have to expand its facilities. The three in the USA are combined events. They ain’t going anywhere
 

Purestriker

Legend
Players like Alcaraz are getting injured and no way there should be 10th masters. They can move AO to March. Have Asian swing in Jan. Then give some space in between RG and Wimbledon. Wimbledon pushed back by a week means nothing.

Jan to March Asia to Melbourne ( non NA non Europe tournaments)
April to July European clay swing plus extended grass swing
August to October (NA)
October November (Europe)
Players get injured all the time. When it happens another player moves up and gets to play. Tennis is bigger than any player.
 

bluetrain4

G.O.A.T.
I always hear excuses for grass masters though. I don't know why it's so hard when UK can have 2 elite events on grass.
It's not as "excuses" as much as criteria for holding a Masters - no existing grass facility, other than Wimbledon, meets the ATP's criteria for holding a Masters - unless the standards have changed or Halle has redone the stadium and grounds. Of course the ATP can always change the standards/criteria. Someone could build a new Masters-compliant facility, but you need someone who wants to throw money behind it. There's no way that these ideas - redoing he Masters schedule, adding a grass Masters, etc., haven't been kicked around at some point among the powers that be. I doubt TT is the first to contemplate theoretical changes. Yet, nothing has changed.
 
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