match contested question

[Blade0324]

I'll try to keep this from being too long.
So our team played a match last week in which the hosting team did pressured our captain to exchange rosters at 6:00. At that time one of our singles players was at the clubhouse for the country club but not on court and our captain was not aware that he was on sight. We are supposed to have until 6:15 to wait for a player that is not present. However our captain went ahead and exchanged rosters and inserted a sub in place of the intended player. Not more than 10 min. later we learned that this hosting team did not have enough courts to play all 5 concurrent individual matches and that singles players would need to go offsite. As we left the courts we met up with the intended singles player for our team and he not the sub went with myself and the 2 players from that other team offsite. We arrived at the other location to find no courts available there either. As a result the 4 of us decided to make up the match at a later time. While all of this was going on both teams captains were playing doubles matches and unavailable. We then went back to the club and made arrangements to make up the match and exchanged info amongst the 4 players. We then played both make up matches as arranged. It turns out that I won my match which tied the teams at 2-2. The following day when the final match was played the other teams captain showed up for the deciding match to watch. Our guy won the match. Our captain entered the results on tennis link and the other teams captain then contested the result as the guy that played the match was not who he had on the roster.
My question is do you think we have a leg to stand on in fighting the fact that this match was contested. Please give me your thoughts. Thanks.

 

[Ace]

I believe once you exchange your roster, no substitutions are allowed. Thats why I always wait until all my players are on site until I give the opposing team captain my roster.

If I were the other captain, I wouldn't have a problem with what happened and would allow you to keep the win. If the match is deciding who goes to districts, it might get sticky though. If that is not the case, then the captain is a real jerk not to allow the scores to stand the way they were played. But....rules are rules.....some people just like to stick by the rules no matter what..... me, I'm just here to play tennis.

 

[Geezer Guy]

Your captain shouldn't have exchanged line-up's until all players were present. However, since he did, the players that were on the "official" line-up (meaning the sub) should have played the matches. Not the other (original) guy.

The other captain was right to do what he did. Sometimes being a captain means you have to be kind of a jerk to stick up for your team.

Kinda depends a lot on the situation though.

 

[Cruzer]

If I understand this scenario correctly the two singles matches could not be played on the same day as the doubles matches due to the unavailability of courts. The singles players agreed to play at another time, the next day. Neither captain was immediately aware of the re-schedule since they were both playing in doubles matches.

It seems that this is the same as if the matches were postponed due to rain. In Norcal if the matches have not started then you do not have to play the players originally included in the lineup. If the matches had started then the same players would have had to finish them. So the visiting captain could play anyone he wanted to in the two singles matches as could the hosting captain.

Losing the team match was the stupidity penalty for the host team for not making sure all five matches could be played either at their facility or where the singles players went to try and play.

 

[Blade0324]

Thanks for the feedback. We'll see what the league and USTA decide on this. We have a meeting with them this week to discuss the facts. I'll post how it turns out.

 

[JavierLW]

I'll try to keep this from being too long.
So our team played a match last week in which the hosting team did pressured our captain to exchange rosters at 6:00. At that time one of our singles players was at the clubhouse for the country club but not on court and our captain was not aware that he was on sight. We are supposed to have until 6:15 to wait for a player that is not present. However our captain went ahead and exchanged rosters and inserted a sub in place of the intended player. Not more than 10 min. later we learned that this hosting team did not have enough courts to play all 5 concurrent individual matches and that singles players would need to go offsite. As we left the courts we met up with the intended singles player for our team and he not the sub went with myself and the 2 players from that other team offsite. We arrived at the other location to find no courts available there either. As a result the 4 of us decided to make up the match at a later time. While all of this was going on both teams captains were playing doubles matches and unavailable. We then went back to the club and made arrangements to make up the match and exchanged info amongst the 4 players. We then played both make up matches as arranged. It turns out that I won my match which tied the teams at 2-2. The following day when the final match was played the other teams captain showed up for the deciding match to watch. Our guy won the match. Our captain entered the results on tennis link and the other teams captain then contested the result as the guy that played the match was not who he had on the roster.
My question is do you think we have a leg to stand on in fighting the fact that this match was contested. Please give me your thoughts. Thanks.

I dont think this is as cut and dry as one might think. It depends on your local league rules. In our local league I believe you can substitute players for any rescheduled match that has not begun yet. In many others there probally is no such rule for this situation.

Ours also says that lineups must be exchanged at 6pm but they shall not be exchanged until everyone is there. That leaves a lot of questions for when people are late..... It sounds like your rules at least give some sort of reasonable allowable time there.

Also keep in mind that most rules hinge on the contingent that all matches that are played in good faith stand. If you get overruled on this, you should file a grievence, it's worth a shot.

But if I were your captain, you should call your local coordinator as soon as possible and give your side of the story.

The other captain may be right about the lineups, but he may definately be wrong about exchanging lineups before all of your players are present. However that's just as much your captain's fault as his for going along with it.

Also like many rules even if they did enforce this, there usually is not a remedy in the rules for this. So I dont think it's that cut and dry that you automatically lose that match, you could have the additional outcome of just having the player that was on the lineup play that match (which makes the other match null and void).

 

[Cindysphinx]

Here's our league rule:

"If the match is rescheduled, it must be completed within 7 days and the exact same line-up for both teams must be used in accordance with National
League rules . . . "

Under our rules, you guys would forfeit that match, even though played in good faith, I think. I supposed it could be argued that the match should be re-played with the correct opponent, but unless you can prove the opposing captain knew of the substitution and failed to object before the match to obtain an unfair advantage, I'd say you guys lose.

Heh, heh. :winks at Topaz:

We, uh, don't have problems like this because our matches are indoor timed matches so they don't get cancelled/rescheduled.

 

[Cindysphinx]

Oh, and our league rules require line-up exchange no later than 5 minutes before the match starts. If your players aren't there, you write them into the line-up and exchange and hope like heck they show up within 16 minutes.

 

[Raiden.Kaminari]

In some Sections, the line-up can be revised based on the fact that courts were not available, and had to be rescheduled on another day.

In fact, a grievance could be submitted against the home team for not providing all courts when the line-up was exchanged. If not enough courts could be reserved, the match should have been a split format, in which the line-up for the 2nd round could only be changed if there was an injury if the captain was a stickler to the rule.

However, some captains show good sportsmanship by following the Golden Rule, and would allow a late player to return to a line-up.

 

[amarone]

As others have indicated, local rules differ so you need to check yours. It is not totally clear from your first post, but it sounds like the captain inserted the sub before exchanging lineups. If that is the case, then there was no "sub"; the "sub" became the player on the lineup.

If the original player was on the lineup that was exchanged and then removed for the "sub", you need to check your local rules for what substitution is allowed. In Atlanta, it is permissible to sub for a no-show, although the wording of the rules indicates that you wait the 15 minutes before doing so. However, even if the substitution were not 100% by the rules, if you played someone who is not the name on the agreed (final) line-up, then I don't think you have a case for arguing that the match should stand.

Then there is the issue of the home team not providing enough courts. Again, check your local rules. In Atlanta things are a little different as we play matches two at a time. However, the home team has a responsibility to provide courts. If they cannot, then the away team can revert to their courts or claim the match by default.

Treating the match like a rain-out may make sense. In Atlanta we are allowed to do that if it gets too late and an individual match does not start by 9PM. Again, you have to check your local rules - if it does not have a provision for treating a match that had no court as a rain-out, then you can't.

As to what happens in the event of a rain-out, guess what? Check your local rules. In Atlanta if there is a rain-out you can substitute players for the rescheduled match - as long as you did not start the original. But in that event, the captain would need to notify the opposing captain of the lineup change before the individual match started.