Match points saved and squandered by the Big Four

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by jm1980, Jan 12, 2017.

  1. jm1980

    jm1980 G.O.A.T.

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    Code:
    –––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––
                                      ***FEDERER***                     
    
    MP WASTED (20)                        
    
    2018 Wimbledon       QF   Anderson       6–2, 7–6(5), 5–7, 4–6, 11–13      (1MP)
    2018 Indian Wells    F    del Potro      4–6, 7–6(8), 6–7(2)               (3MP)
    2017 Stuttgart       R16  Haas           6–2, 6–7(8), 4–6                  (1MP)
    2017 Dubai           R16  Donskoy        6–3, 6–7(7), 6–7(5)               (3MP)
    2016 Stuttgart       SF   Thiem          6–3, 6–7(7), 4–6                  (2MP)
    2015 Madrid          R32  Kyrgios        7–6(2), 6–7(5), 6–7(12)           (2MP)
    2014 Rome            R32  Chardy         6–1, 3–6, 6–7(6)                  (1MP)
    2013 Dubai           SF   Berdych        6–3, 6–7(8), 4–6                  (3MP)
    2011 US Open         SF   Djokovic       7–6(7), 6–4, 3–6, 2–6, 5–7        (2MP)
    2010 Paris           SF   Monfils        6–7(7), 7–6(1), 6–7(4)            (5MP)!
    2010 US Open         SF   Djokovic       7–5, 1–6, 7–5, 2–6, 5–7           (2MP)
    2010 Miami           R16  Berdych        4–6, 7–6(3), 6–7(6)               (1MP)
    2010 Indian Wells    R32  Baghdatis      7–5, 5–7, 6–7(4)                  (3MP)
    2006 Rome            F    Nadal          7–6(0), 6–7(5), 4–6, 6–2, 6–7(5)  (2MP)
    2005 Monte Carlo     QF   Gasquet        7–6(1), 2–6, 6–7(8)               (3MP)
    2005 Aus Open        SF   Safin          7–5, 4–6, 7–5, 6–7(6), 7–9        (1MP)
    2003 Miami           QF   Costa          6–7(4), 6–4, 6–7(7)               (3MP)
    2002 Aus Open        R16  Haas           6–7(3), 6–4, 6–3, 4–6, 6–8        (1MP)
    2001 Halle           QF   Rafter         6–4, 6–7(6), 6–7(4)               (1MP)
    2000 Vienna          SF   Henman         6–2, 6–7(4), 3–6                  (2MP)
    
    MP SAVED (18)                       
    
    2018 Halle           R16  Paire          6–3, 3–6, 7–6(7)                  (2MP)
    2017 Miami           QF   Berdych        6–2, 3–6, 7–6(6)                  (2MP)
    2016 Wimbledon       QF   Cilic          6–7(4), 4–6, 6–3, 7–6(9), 6–3     (3MP)
    2014 London WTF      SF   Wawrinka       4–6, 7–5, 7–6(6)                  (4MP)
    2014 Shanghai        R32  Mayer          7–5, 3–6, 7–6(7)                  (5MP)
    2014 US Open         QF   Monfils        4–6, 3–6, 6–4, 7–5, 6–2           (2MP)
    2011 Madrid          R32  López          7–6(13), 6–7(1), 7–6(7)           (1MP)
    2006 Shanghai TMC    RR   Roddick        4–6, 7–6(8), 6–4                  (3MP)
    2006 Halle           QF   Rochus         6–7(2), 7–6(9), 7–6(5)            (4MP)
    2005 Dubai           R16  Ferrero        4–6, 6–3, 7–6(6)                  (2MP)
    2003 Houston TMC     RR   Agassi         6–7(3), 6–3, 7–6(7)               (2MP)
    2003 Paris           R16  Verkerk        6–7(3), 7–6(12), 7–6(6)           (4MP)
    2003 Cincinnati      R64  Draper         4–6, 6–3, 7–6(10)                 (7MP)!!
    2001 Vienna          R32  Massú          4–6, 7–6(8), 6–4                  (3MP)
    2001 Miami           R16  Johansson      7–6(3), 5–7, 7–6(7)               (1MP)
    2000 Basel           SF   Hewitt         6–4, 5–7, 7–6(6)                  (1MP)
    2000 Marseille       QF   Ljubicic       6–2, 3–6, 7–6(5)                  (2MP)
    1999 Rotterdam       R32  Raoux          6–7(4), 7–5, 7–6(3)               (2MP)
    
    –––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––
                                        ***NADAL***                       
    
    MP WASTED (7)
    
    2016 Buenos Aires    SF   Thiem          4–6, 6–4, 6–7(4)                  (1MP)
    2015 Indian Wells    QF   Raonic         6–4, 6–7(10), 5–7                 (3MP)
    2010 Doha            F    Davydenko      6–0, 6–7(8), 4–6                  (2MP)
    2005 Cincinnati      R64  Berdych        7–6(4), 2–6, 6–7(3)               (3MP)
    2004 Stuttgart       QF   Ferrer         3–6, 7–6(3), 5–7                  (3MP)
    2004 Indian Wells    R32  Calleri        4–6, 6–3, 6–7(10)                 (3MP)
    2003 Bastad          QF   Lapentti       6–3, 3–6, 6–7(6)                  (5MP)!!
    
    MP SAVED (13)
    
    2017 Beijing         R32  Pouille        4–6, 7–6(6), 7–5                  (2MP)
    2016 Indian Wells    R16  Zverev         6–7(8), 6–0, 7–5                  (1MP)
    2015 Paris           R16  Anderson       4–6, 7–6(6), 6–2                  (1MP)
    2014 Rio             SF   Andujar        2–6, 6–3, 7–6(10)                 (2MP)
    2010 Tokyo           SF   Troicki        7–6(4), 4–6, 7–6(7)               (2MP)
    2010 Cincinnati      R16  Benneteau      5–7, 7–6(6), 6–2                  (1MP)
    2009 Paris           R32  Almagro        3–6, 7–6(2), 7–5                  (5MP)
    2009 Madrid          SF   Djokovic       3–6, 7–6(5), 7–6(9)               (3MP)
    2009 Indian Wells    R16  Nalbandian     3–6, 7–6(5), 6–0                  (5MP)!
    2008 Chennai         SF   Moyá           6–7(3), 7–6(8), 7–6(1)            (4MP)
    2006 Rome            F    Federer        6–7(0), 7–6(5), 6–4, 2–6, 7–6(5)  (2MP)
    2006 Marseille       R32  Rochus         4–6, 6–2, 7–5                     (1MP)
    2005 Aus Open        R64  Youzhny        6–1, 4–6, 4–6, 7–5, 6–3           (1MP)
    
    –––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––
                                      ***DJOKOVIC***                     
    
    MP WASTED (3)                       
    
    2018 Queen's         F    Cilic          7–5, 6–7(4), 3–6                  (1MP)
    2009 Madrid          SF   Nadal          6–3, 6–7(5), 6–7(9)               (3MP)
    2007 Rotterdam       SF   Youzhny        6–3, 6–7(7), 5–7                  (3MP)
    
    MP SAVED (12)                       
    
    2017 Doha            SF   Verdasco       4–6, 7–6(7), 6–3                  (5MP)
    2015 Montreal        QF   Gulbis         5–7, 7–6(7), 6–1                  (2MP)
    2012 Shanghai        F    Murray         5–7, 7–6(11), 6–3                 (5MP)!
    2012 Roland Garros   QF   Tsonga         6–1, 5–7, 5–7, 7–6(6), 6–1        (4MP)
    2011 London WTF      RR   Berdych        3–6, 6–3, 7–6(3)                  (1MP)
    2011 US Open         SF   Federer        6–7(7), 4–6, 6–3, 6–2, 7–5        (2MP)
    2010 US Open         SF   Federer        5–7, 6–1, 5–7, 6–2, 7–5           (2MP)
    2010 Indian Wells    R32  Kohlschreiber  6–3, 2–6, 7–6(3)                  (3MP)
    2009 Basel           SF   Stepanek       6–7(4), 7–5, 6–2                  (3MP)
    2009 Halle           R16  Serra          5–7, 7–5, 6–1                     (5MP)
    2007 Vienna          QF   Chela          6–3, 5–7, 7–6(2)                  (2MP)
    2005 Wimbledon       R64  G.Lopez        3–6, 3–6, 7–6(5), 7–6(3), 6–4     (3MP)
    
    –––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––
                                       ***MURRAY***                       
    
    MP WASTED (5)                       
    
    2012 Paris           R16  Janowicz       7–5, 6–7(4), 2–6                  (1MP)
    2012 Shanghai        F    Djokovic       7–5, 6–7(11), 3–6                 (5MP)!
    2012 Tokyo           SF   Raonic         3–6, 7–6(5), 6–7(4)               (2MP)
    2010 Los Angeles     F    Querrey        7–5, 6–7(2), 3–6                  (1MP)
    2008 Miami           R64  Ancic          2–6, 6–2, 6–7(7)                  (2MP)
    
    MP SAVED (11)                         
    
    2017 Dubai           QF   Kohlschreiber  6–7(4), 7–6(18), 6–1              (7MP)!
    2016 London WTF      SF   Raonic         5–7, 7–6(5), 7–6(9)               (1MP)
    2014 Valencia        F    Robredo        3–6, 7–6(7), 7–6(8)               (5MP)
    2014 Shenzhen        F    Robredo        5–7, 7–6(9), 6–1                  (5MP)
    2014 Cincinnati      QF   Isner          6–7(3), 6–4, 7–6(2)               (2MP)
    2013 Miami           F    Ferrer         2–6, 6–4, 7–6(1)                  (1MP)
    2007 St. Petersburg  SF   Youzhny        6–2, 5–7, 7–6(1)                  (1MP)
    2007 Miami           R16  Mathieu        2–6, 7–5, 6–3                     (2MP)
    2007 Indian Wells    QF   Haas           3–6, 6–3, 7–6(8)                  (2MP)
    2006 Newport         R32  Mello          6–1, 1–6, 7–6(5)                  (5MP)
    
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2018
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    #1
  2. jm1980

    jm1980 G.O.A.T.

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    Observations:

    FEDERER:
    • Match Won while saving Match point/Match Lost while having Match point: 18-20
    • Matchpoints Saved/Wasted: 50-42
    • Matches Won/Lost in GS: 2-4
    • Lost 1 Match with 4 MP or more (5MP)
    • Saved 6 Matches with 4 MP or more (7MP, 4MP, 4MP, 5MP, 4MP)
    • Wasted Match Points twice against: Djokovic, Berdych, Haas
    • WTF?! Match Point moment: Saving 7 MP against Scott Draper
    • WTF?! Match Point moment 2: Losing twice with 2 MP against Djokovic in a GS Semifinal

    NADAL:
    • Match Won while saving Match point/Match Lost while having Match point: 13-7
    • Matchpoints Saved/Wasted: 30-20
    • Lost 1 Match with 4MP or more (5MP)
    • Saved 3 Matches with 4 MP or more (4MP, 5MP, 5MP)

    DJOKOVIC:
    • Match Won while saving Match point/Match Lost while having Match point: 12-3
    • Matchpoints Saved/Wasted: 37-7
    • Matches Won/Lost in GS: 2-0
    • Saved 4 Matches with 4 MP or more (5MP, 4MP, 5MP, 5MP)
    • Saved Match Point twice against: Federer
    • WTF?! Match Point moment: Saving 5 MP in a final against Murray
    • WTF?! Match Point moment 2: Saving 2 MP twice against Federer in a GS semifinal

    MURRAY:
    • Match Won while saving Match point/Match Lost while having Match point: 11-5
    • Matchpoints Saved/Wasted: 32-11
    • Saved 3 Matches with 5 MP or more (7MP, 5MP, 5MP, 5MP)
    • Saved Match Point Twice against: Robredo
    • Wasted match points three tournaments in a row (2012 Tokyo, 2012 Shanghai, 2012 Paris)
    • WTF?! Match Point moment: Losing 2 Finals with Match Points

    MISC:
    • Berdych (Federer/Nadal), Raonic (Nadal/Murray), and Thiem (Nadal/Federer) have saved MP against two members of the Big 4.
    • Youzhny (Nadal/Murray) and Kohlschreiber (Djokovic/Murray) has wasted MP against two members of the Big 4
    • Federer has wasted MP against both Nadal and Djokovic
    • Federer (Chardy #25), Nadal (Calleri #16, Thiem #19) and Murray (Janowicz #15, Querrey #17) have wasted MP to players whose highest rank is outside top 10
    • Only Murray has not saved MP against a #1 Player (highest Ferrer #3)
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2018
    #2
  3. Noelan

    Noelan Legend

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    • Some really interesting cases as this one, all 3 matches in a row where Andy wasted MP came after he won first GS trophy. Shows how difficult it is to deal with success without previous experience .Then now is more clear why many fedfans hate Berdych so passionately.LOL
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2017
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  4. Duncan Donuts

    Duncan Donuts Semi-Pro

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    Wow...never realized Federer lost so many.

    I will never forget those Murray/Robredo matches in Shenzhen and Valencia.

    Shenzhen: Robredo was up 7-5, 6-6 (6-2) and I went to cook breakfast. When I came back Murray was ahead 5-1 in the 3rd set. I was stunned.

    Valencia: One of the best 3 set matches Ive seen. reminded me a lot of Djokovic/Nadal from Madrid. Robredo blew match points in the 2nd set, but didnt tank the 3rd set like Shenzhen. The MP rally that Murray won on was one of the better match points Ive ever seen.
     
    #4
  5. jm1980

    jm1980 G.O.A.T.

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    Fed blows one for the ages against Donskoy

    5–2 lead in the 2nd set TB, then 5–1 lead in the 3rd set TB blown on top of the 3 MPs
     
    #5
  6. Fiero425

    Fiero425 Hall of Fame

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    Not to mention serving for the match in the 3rd up a break; lost serve twice, but wrangled his way into TB dropping it finally to this kid! WOW! :rolleyes: :p ;)
     
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  7. Fedeonic

    Fedeonic Hall of Fame

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    "Time to reactualize!"
     
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  8. jm1980

    jm1980 G.O.A.T.

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    Fed evens the score at 17-17 with two more saved against Berdych
     
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    #8
  9. Sereger

    Sereger Hall of Fame

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    Will it stop at number 17 for Fed? My heart is just not strong enough:(
     
    #9
  10. Rod Laver

    Rod Laver Professional

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    Nah he's going for 18 :D
     
    #10
  11. Sereger

    Sereger Hall of Fame

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    He nealy got it today. Missed 2 MP :mad:
     
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  12. TheFifthSet

    TheFifthSet Legend

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    Dude, great work!
     
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  13. falstaff78

    falstaff78 Hall of Fame

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    Fantastic work!!!!!
     
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  14. jm1980

    jm1980 G.O.A.T.

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    Wasterer wastes another one against 39-year-old Haas
     
    #14
  15. I knew Rogi would be at the top of list for most losses when having match points among the big 4. That and not converting break points are the 2 biggest stats that make him lose more often than not.
     
    #15
  16. GabeT

    GabeT Hall of Fame

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    And yet I have to read here that Nole isn't clutch!
     
    #16
  17. TheAssassin

    TheAssassin Hall of Fame

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    Djokovic is not just a great front runner. He also hardly ever fails when the finish line is so close.

    Federer probably holds the record for both MP saving and squandering. Not surprising because of such a long career while he hardly ever loses convincingly.
     
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  18. Federer and Del Potro

    Federer and Del Potro G.O.A.T.

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    Djokovic and Nadal are unreal front-runners. The only 2 guys I feel utterly hopeless/helpless against when they have even the slimmest of leads.

    That's what made Australian Open final even more shocking to me.
     
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  19. Terenigma

    Terenigma G.O.A.T.

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    Agree with this 100% Both of those matches were outstanding tennis. There was so many highlight points and the Valencia match was probably one of the top matches all year, probably ignored due to the opponent but i remember it being so good!
     
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  20. Sudacafan

    Sudacafan Legend

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    Federer, the only one of the big four with more matches with MPs wasted than saved according to the lists.
     
    #20
  21. NEW_BORN

    NEW_BORN Hall of Fame

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    Well done Federer for keeping another streak alive - now 6 consecutive years of losing at least 1 match after having held MP.
     
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  22. Fiero425

    Fiero425 Hall of Fame

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    Those back to back USO Semi-Final losses to Nole didn't help in '10 & '11; 2 MP's in both serving for it! WOW! :rolleyes: :p ;)
     
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  23. jimjam

    jimjam Semi-Pro

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    Hold on.. does this mean that Fed has had match points in almost 10% of ALL matches he's lost, across his career?

    That's kinda crazy. :D
     
    #23
  24. Red Rick

    Red Rick G.O.A.T.

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    Find it hard to interpret these stats, though it is pretty curious that Federer has wasted MP in more matches more than he saved.
     
    #24
  25. paranoidandroid

    paranoidandroid G.O.A.T.

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    Shows how hard he is to beat.
     
    #25
  26. Red Rick

    Red Rick G.O.A.T.

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    Does it? He has the lowest matches% won of the Big 3. Career %points won might be interesting by surface cause I think he might have a higher% of points won but lower% of matches won compared to Djokovic.


    In any case, Murray and especially Djokovic are quite something else in this stat. For Murray probably due to having a few huge "scores" against lesser players, while Djokovic, when he's on, has been ridiculously clutch in MP situations.
     
    #26
  27. Im(moral) Winner

    Im(moral) Winner Legend

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    Depends on how you value it. Fed is the hardest ATG to beat in straight sets and his MP mugging is a part of it.
     
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    #27
  28. junior74

    junior74 Legend

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    [​IMG]
     
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  29. Red Rick

    Red Rick G.O.A.T.

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    I think generally Federer just wins because he wins way more points than the opponent, and when the points go 50/50 that Federer actually gets tight and is more likely to choke than Djokovic and Nadal.
     
    #29
  30. Red Rick

    Red Rick G.O.A.T.

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    Wait, is that from after Wimbly '16?
     
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  31. zagor

    zagor Bionic Poster

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    Awesome match that one, I remember it fairly well. I'm sure Robredo does too:

    [​IMG]
     
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  32. Im(moral) Winner

    Im(moral) Winner Legend

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    Yeah, he's also the leader of losing matching while winning the majority of the points.
    RAFA started choking in different situations, though like having a losing record in 5 setters since 2010 while Fed has a winning one.
     
    #32
  33. Im(moral) Winner

    Im(moral) Winner Legend

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    More talented player lost. :(
     
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  34. Red Rick

    Red Rick G.O.A.T.

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    Yeah, people often just talk about choking like it's this one thing, though basically every player can have different choking patterns.
     
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  35. jm1980

    jm1980 G.O.A.T.

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    Escaperer saves 2 more against Paire
     
    #35
  36. True Fanerer

    True Fanerer Legend

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    He also squandered a couple.
     
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  37. travlerajm

    travlerajm Legend

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    Surprised no one posted clip of the epic wasted match point against Safin in 2005 AO yet.
     
    #37
  38. jm1980

    jm1980 G.O.A.T.

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    Yeah but they don't count if he ultimately wins
     
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  39. True Fanerer

    True Fanerer Legend

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    Oh ok of course. I see Delpo and Haas at the top of the list.
     
    #39
  40. jm1980

    jm1980 G.O.A.T.

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    First one wasted by Djoker since the 2009 semi against Nadal
     
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  41. N01E

    N01E Rookie

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    First time after having championship points.
     
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  42. Fiero425

    Fiero425 Hall of Fame

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    In past eras, the top players really couldn't care less about the event; mostly used to get in some extra practice time before Wimbledon! IIRC, Borg never actually played at Queens which was the only event btwn him winning the FO 6 times and the Wimbledon titles he hogged for 5+ years! It wasn't uncommon for Connors to drop his 1st or 2nd match, not wanting to get involved in some grass court war and get injured! That was damn likely with most of the top players with how choppy and slippery the surface was before being homogenized the last decade or so! I'm thrilled Nole actually did this well; I'll take it! :rolleyes: :p ;)
     
    #42
  43. jm1980

    jm1980 G.O.A.T.

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    Wasterer strikes again

    First time from 2-0 up since the 2011 USO SF
     
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    #43
  44. Fiero425

    Fiero425 Hall of Fame

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    You heard it here 1st! I predicted both Fedal would be vulnerable to a big server, but up 2-0 is unbelievable! :rolleyes: :p ;)
     
    #44
  45. tennisaddict

    tennisaddict Bionic Poster

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    Typical Fed, Second loss in 2018 with MP.. If he has to lose why take it to 13-11 in the 5th ?
     
    #45
  46. Fiero425

    Fiero425 Hall of Fame

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    I said the same about Roddick back in '09; "why take it all the way out to 16-14 only dropping serve that one time all day?" :rolleyes: :p ;)
     
    ktwtfd likes this.
    #46
  47. AnOctorokForDinner

    AnOctorokForDinner Hall of Fame

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    Classic FEDR.
     
    #47
  48. May178

    May178 New User

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2018
    Messages:
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    Great work! If you do not mind, do you mind sharing the data source or is it your own personal repository?
     
    #48
  49. jm1980

    jm1980 G.O.A.T.

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    I manually update this every time one of them saves or blows an MP
     
    #49
  50. AnOctorokForDinner

    AnOctorokForDinner Hall of Fame

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    Federer saved 1 MP in 2000 Basel SF vs Hewitt, not 2. Just watched that match and thought of this thread.
     
    #50

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