Match points saved and squandered by the Big Four

jm1980

G.O.A.T.
https://www.reddit.com/r/tennis/comments/cet4ja
Apparently we have two new additions, 2001 Paris 2R vs Jiri Novak and 2002 Rotterdam QF vs Nicolas Escude (1 MP missed both times). Could anyone pull any older sources on that?
I saw this post but couldn't find sources corroborating that Fed had MP in these matches. I'm hesitant to add them to the list until I can find more sources. I even tried looking into Swiss and German sources

I was able to find a report on the Escude match, which says he was down 3-5 in the TB but won 3 straight points (for 6-5). But it doesn't say if Fed had a MP at 7-6 or 8-7.
I was able to find this report on the 2001 Novak match, and I'm now comfortable adding it to the list:

The 20-year-old Swiss held a match point at 5-4 and 40-30 in the third set against Novak but was passed going for a volley.


Finding anything about the 2002 Escude match is proving difficult, partially because it's overshadowed by the final they played in Rotterdam in 2001 (which Escude won), and by the 3 match points Escude saved in the semifinal against Grosjean. There are no mentions of a saved MP against Federer in the QF, even though he was already kind of a big deal then.
 

jm1980

G.O.A.T.
I think I finally cracked the mystery. The sources claiming Federer had a match point against Escude in their 2002 Rotterdam (from this table) match all trace back to Swiss journalists Simon Graf and Rene Stauffer. According to Graf (source), the match point came at 6-5 in the second set tiebreaker.

However, this is contradicted by all other independent sources:

On Friday, the 25-year-old trailed 3-5 in the second-set tiebreak before reeling off three straight points and holding on to knot the contest. (source)

Mené 5-3 dans le tie-break, il [Escude] a réussi un petit miracle pour égaliser à une manche partout. (source)

There were several mini breaks before Escude levelled the match by clinching the tiebreak 10-8 on his fourth set point. (source)

The facts here are:

1. Federer led 5-3 in the tiebreaker
2. Escude won 3 points in a row after that
3. Escude converted on his 4th set point
4. Tiebreaker ended 10-8

There is only one possible sequence of points that respects these conditions. If Federer had one match point at 6-5 (or at any score, really) this would contradict bullet points 2 and 3 (since Escude would have had a maximum of 3 set points)



The German version of the swissinfo.ch article on the match also claims Federer was two points away from winning (source):

Federer war in einer Neuauflage des letztjährigen Finals im Tiebreak des zweiten Satzes zwei Gewinnpunkte von einer gelungenen Revanche entfernt.

Unless some new evidence comes to light, it's safe to say Federer did NOT have a match point in this match.
 
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Sudacafan

Bionic Poster
I think I finally cracked the mystery. The sources claiming Federer had a match point against Escude in their 2002 Rotterdam match all trace back to Simon Graf, a Swiss journalist. According to Simon himself (source), the match point came at 6-5 in the second set tiebreaker.

However, this is contradicted by all other independent sources:

On Friday, the 25-year-old trailed 3-5 in the second-set tiebreak before reeling off three straight points and holding on to knot the contest. (source)

Mené 5-3 dans le tie-break, il [Escude] a réussi un petit miracle pour égaliser à une manche partout. (source)

There were several mini breaks before Escude levelled the match by clinching the tiebreak 10-8 on his fourth set point. (source)

The facts are:

1. Federer led 5-3
2. Escude won 3 points in a row after that
3. Escude converted on his 4th set point
4. Tiebreaker ended 10-8

There is only one possible sequence of points that respects these conditions. Simon's version that Federer had one match point at 6-5 (or at any score, really) contradicts bullet points 2 and 3 (since Escude would have had a maximum of 3 set points)



The German version of the swissinfo.ch article on the match also claims Federer was two points away from winning (source):

Federer war in einer Neuauflage des letztjährigen Finals im Tiebreak des zweiten Satzes zwei Gewinnpunkte von einer gelungenen Revanche entfernt.

Unless some new evidence comes to light, it's safe to say Federer did NOT have a match point in this match.
Thanks! What a relief!
 

BGod

Legend
Nice to see Murray add to the Saved category. The Nishioka match by drama a great possible last USO win.

Nadal trolling Tsit, will ultimately win so Tsit will have a Wasted add.
 

Fiero425

Hall of Fame
A Murray update, 2 MP saved against Tiafoe in the 3rd set tiebreaker (both on Murray's own serve) in Antwerp
Tiafoe gave this match away to an old man who didn't do much but stay in points until the NG'r blew it with UFE or ambitious shot making! LOSER! :rolleyes: (n):notworthy::cautious:
 

Mainad

Bionic Poster
Tiafoe gave this match away to an old man who didn't do much but stay in points until the NG'r blew it with UFE or ambitious shot making! LOSER! :rolleyes: (n):notworthy::cautious:
Lol...didn't do much? Only took Tiafoe to THREE breakers and had leads in ALL of them at some point!! :cool:
 

Fiero425

Hall of Fame
Lol...didn't do much? Only took Tiafoe to THREE breakers and had leads in ALL of them at some point!! :cool:
Tiafoe was serving for 1st set w/ MP's and couldn't do it! It was a pathetic performance! Murray really didn't do anything special besides attack the net a couple times! :cautious:
 

Fiero425

Hall of Fame
Murray, Murray...:oops:
Poor thing had 7 Match Points and couldn't close on a "Lucky Loser," Dom Koepfer in Paris today! WHO? I think Murray's been playing too much, getting too many free passes into events! It should stop just to save the old fool from himself playing that ridiculous defensive style which got him put under the knife in the first place! What an idiot! :cautious: :notworthy::happydevil:
 
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Sudacafan

Bionic Poster
@jm1980 , please update general summary in first post of the thread.
With the 7 MP wasted in this match, Murray sets the Big Four record for the quantity of MP squandered in the same match, breaking the prior record of 5 MP jointly held by Federer, Nadal and himself.
Those 7 MP came in two different games: the first two MP when Koepfer served 4/5 15/40 in the third set, and 5 MP later in the tiebreaker.
Koepfer only needed his first MP to close the match. Final score Koepfer wins 6/4 5/7 7/6(11/9).
 
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Fiero425

Hall of Fame
@jm1980 , please update general summary in first post of the thread. With the 7 MP wasted in this match, Murray sets the Big Four record for the quantity of MP squandered in the same match, breaking the prior record of 5 MP jointly held by Federer, Nadal and himself. Those 7 MP came in two different games: the first two MP when Murray served for the match at 5-4 40-15 in the third set, and 5 MP later in the tiebreaker. Koepfer only needed his first MP to close the match. Final score Koepfer wins 6/4 5/7 7/6(11/9).
I just watched the 3rd set! I'm not sure, but I may have heard Murray was up a set and a break in the 2nd, but still allowed this to happen again! :-D :giggle::laughing::happydevil:
 

Sudacafan

Bionic Poster
I just watched the 3rd set! I'm not sure, but I may have heard Murray was up a set and a break in the 2nd, but still allowed this to happen again! :-D :giggle::laughing::happydevil:
Nope, Murray had lost the first set of the match, and he was never a break up in the third set.
I corrected above where I said that Murray served for the match, it was actually Koepfer who was serving in those first 2 MP.


 
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Fiero425

Hall of Fame
Nope, Murray had lost the first set of the match, and he was never a break up in the third set.
I corrected above where I said that Murray served for the match, it was actually Koepfer who was serving in those first 2 MP.


I may have been thinking of the other Brit; Evans was up a set and a break allowig Bublik to come back and defeat him in 3 sets! :laughing: :-D:D:laughing::happydevil:
 

Sudacafan

Bionic Poster
Puts even 2012 Shanghai in the shade and I never ever thought that possible!!! :oops::(:unsure::unsure:
I just looked at the list in the first post of this thread, and Paris 2012 Shanghai 2012 was the last time that Murray had wasted MPs (5, which was as well the prior joint record of quantity of MPs I mentioned in a post above) until yesterday. That was the longest Big Four streak without wasting MPs (more than 9 years). (*)

The last time that the other Big Four wasted MPs was Federer in Doha 2021, Nadal in Acapulco 2019 and Djokovic in Queen’s 2018. Murray’s 9-year streak ended yesterday of avoiding wasting MPs was remarkable. (**)

My first edit above also made me change the last paragraph.
Longest streak of time of not wasting MPs is actually Djokovic’s. There’s more than 9 years between Madrid 2009 and Queen’s 2018.
That’s a bit longer than Murray’s 9 years between Paris 2012 and Paris 2021, as both editions fell in the same week of the year.
(*), (**): edited
 
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BGod

Legend
@jm1980 , please update general summary in first post of the thread.
With the 7 MP wasted in this match, Murray sets the Big Four record for the quantity of MP squandered in the same match, breaking the prior record of 5 MP jointly held by Federer, Nadal and himself.
Those 7 MP came in two different games: the first two MP when Koepfer served 4/5 15/40 in the third set, and 5 MP later in the tiebreaker.
Koepfer only needed his first MP to close the match. Final score Koepfer wins 6/4 5/7 7/6(11/9).
Unfreaking believable. Going to watch highlights now for sure.
 

BGod

Legend
That makes it even worse. Sometimes players get aced or have no play on the ball and end up in this thread. Here however, he was in a rally in every single match point:
Very reminiscent of the Kyrgios-Gasquet match to me.
Obviously in that one I believe Kyrgios was serving on all MPs and some of those were touch aces but Gasquet muffed into the net on several occasions.

In this match Murray had two double MPs which begs the question why he didn't go aggressively on the first of those or even both of the 3rd & 4th. Statistically you have to take your odds. This reeks of Federer with his BP problems.
 
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