I always get crucified whenever I mention this, but Federer's lack of mental toughness isn't talked about enough. Do you even realise how often he lost close matches against his main rivals? Yeah of course he can find his way out of tough matches against players like Leonardo Mayer (Shanghai '14), but those guys are ten levels below him. He can outplay Djokovic for an entire match, only to lose his way completely at the very end. That's a problem. A notable exception is AO '17 against Nadal, which made that victory all the more sweet.
Match points saved and squandered by the Big Four
- Thread starter jm1980
- Start date
jm1980
Talk Tennis Guru
See this post here where I explain why there is confusion:
Djokovic makes quarters after Serra scare
World number four Novak Djokovic survived a nerve-wracking second-round scare against France's Florent Serra to book his place in the quarter-finals of Halle's ATP tournament overnight.www.abc.net.au
"I have defended six match points in a game before a few years ago at Wimbledon, I broke into the top 100 after that and I am hoping this experience will also be a turning point."
Djokovic himself seems to have two different recollections of how many match points he had (3 or 6). While Lopez seems to recall having wasted 4 match points.
The biggest problem is these are players remembering the match years after it had happened, and human memory can be faulty.
speedysteve
Legend
Feel free to discuss it to your heart's content on the former pro players area.
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jschroe36
New User
See this post here where I explain why there is confusion:
Djokovic himself seems to have two different recollections of how many match points he had (3 or 6). While Lopez seems to recall having wasted 4 match points.
The biggest problem is these are players remembering the match years after it had happened, and human memory can be faulty.
yeah i saw it and i've tried to post legitimate evidence that it was, in fact 6 match points. there are multiple AP articles that cite 6 match points and this press conference also seems like pretty good evidence.See this post here where I explain why there is confusion:
Djokovic himself seems to have two different recollections of how many match points he had (3 or 6). While Lopez seems to recall having wasted 4 match points.
The biggest problem is these are players remembering the match years after it had happened, and human memory can be faulty.
Screenshot-2025-07-20-at-8-35-17-AM hosted at ImgBB
Image Screenshot-2025-07-20-at-8-35-17-AM hosted on ImgBB
ibb.co
jm1980
Talk Tennis Guru
Yes, but all of these sources are the same. They are just citing Djokovic himself in a presser after beating Serra in 2009. I have no issue believing he actually said this. But that is just his personal recollection of what happened in the match, four years later. So Djokovic may or may not be factually correct.yeah i saw it and i've tried to post legitimate evidence that it was, in fact 6 match points. there are multiple AP articles that cite 6 match points and this press conference also seems like pretty good evidence.
Screenshot-2025-07-20-at-8-35-17-AM hosted at ImgBB
Image Screenshot-2025-07-20-at-8-35-17-AM hosted on ImgBB
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jschroe36
New User
yeah, i even tried some of the free public library databases for newspaper articles from back in 2005 but couldn't find anything beyond the scorelines. Can't even find point-by-point data a la Flashscore etc. Will keep digging.
jm1980
Talk Tennis Guru
Yeah I tried digging too. But point-by-point data unfortunately doesn't go that far back.
It doesn't help that he was a relative unknown playing another relative unknown at the time, so there are no articles covering the match in much depth.
And since that court wasn't televised, the answer will probably be lost to the sands of time.
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jschroe36
New User
i found this little snippet on the wimbledon.org internet archives, unfortunately doesn't help us...
"Frustration and racket throwing took place on Court 4 as Guillermo Garcia-Lopez took on Novak Djokovic from Serbia and Montenegro in another five-set spectacular. The Spaniard started well by taking the first two sets with ease, but Djokovic clung on and began to wear the Spaniard down as the game progressed, forcing tiebreaks in the third and fourth sets which he won by sheer tenacity. The game was briefly suspended in the fifth as the net had to be repaired after taking so much abuse throughout the match. Djokovic kept his cool and his concentration to win 3-6, 3-6, 7-6 (7-5), 7-6 (7-3), 6-4.
Written by Luis Lopez"
"Frustration and racket throwing took place on Court 4 as Guillermo Garcia-Lopez took on Novak Djokovic from Serbia and Montenegro in another five-set spectacular. The Spaniard started well by taking the first two sets with ease, but Djokovic clung on and began to wear the Spaniard down as the game progressed, forcing tiebreaks in the third and fourth sets which he won by sheer tenacity. The game was briefly suspended in the fifth as the net had to be repaired after taking so much abuse throughout the match. Djokovic kept his cool and his concentration to win 3-6, 3-6, 7-6 (7-5), 7-6 (7-3), 6-4.
Written by Luis Lopez"
jschroe36
New User
The answer is out there, I have no doubt. Probably the Spanish press is the best bet. I can't access the full article but this was published the day after the Garcia-Lopez epic and mentions GGL wasting four match points in the 3rd set (and the newspaper article states the match was still ongoing). So there is ZERO doubt Djokovic saved AT LEAST 4 match points and possibly saved more in the 4th set. I'll keep looking.
jm1980
Talk Tennis Guru
This article is very helpful, thanks! It says here the fifth set was still being played and GGL had wasted 4 match points. Since the fifth ended 6-4, GGL couldn't have had any match points in the fifthThe answer is out there, I have no doubt. Probably the Spanish press is the best bet. I can't access the full article but this was published the day after the Garcia-Lopez epic and mentions GGL wasting four match points in the 3rd set (and the newspaper article states the match was still ongoing). So there is ZERO doubt Djokovic saved AT LEAST 4 match points and possibly saved more in the 4th set. I'll keep looking.
This lines up with GGL's own very detailed recollection of that match, where he remembers having wasted 4 MPs:
I think the answer is almost certainly 4 match points, and Djokovic's recollection of having saved six MPs is faultyATP said:
Pheasant
Legend
Agreed. As a fan, his losses were incredibly painful. And it was talked about in 2006. Fed’s career record in 5-set matches was close to .500; something that stunned some of the announcers that I listened to. How could somebody this dominant be so ordinary in a 5th set.
And I also agree about that epic win over Nadal. That 2017 AO win over Nadal was so incredible; one of my all-time favorite victories. As a matter of fact, Fed from 2017 to early 2018 reeled off 6 consecutive 5th set wins,by far the longest streak of his career. I think that Fed was just happy to be playing. So he played with no pressure.
jschroe36
New User
The Spanish article just says GGL wasted 4 match points in the 3rd set. It doesn’t necessarily rule out additional match points that could have theoretically been saved in the 4th set but I tend to agree that it may have only been the 4 in the 3rd set.
Djokovic also saved a match point (or possibly 2 or 3) during his qualifying match against Moodie in the final rd of qualies (which was a best of 5 match) so he may have just meant 6 match points saved during his 2005 Wimbledon tournament.
jm1980
Talk Tennis Guru
I feel like if GGL had wasted more MPs in the fourth set, the article would have mentioned it (and GGL himself would also have remembered)
jschroe36
New User
I don't disagree but it still can't be ruled out entirely. I feel like there's a big difference between GGL having 4 match points on his own serve in that 3rd set and Djokovic potentially saving one or two more on his own serve late in the 4th set which might not have really warranted much mention at the time given the rankings and status of the two players in 2005. Will keep digging...
helterskelter
G.O.A.T.
I think Sinner has a pretty poor record in fifth sets, too. The only match he has won in a fifth set in his four slam titles is the one against Medvedev in his first-ever slam final, and it helped that Meddy was out on his feet by the end. I remember the commentators mentioning it when Dimitrov was two sets up as reason to think that Sinner would face a bigger test overcoming that deficit than would, say, Alcaraz or Djokovic.
By contrast, Sinner lost in five sets at RG 2025, WI 2024, RG 2024, so even in the year and a half that he's been the tour's dominant player, his record in fifth sets is 1-3. So, I do think Sinner's mental toughness is still questionable, although like Federer his resilience, by which I mean ability to bounce back from tough losses, seems very good.
In addition, Sinner lost in a fifth set at USO 2023, RG 2023, AO 2023 [he did win a fifth set at AO 2023, too, though], USO 2022 [he actually won two fifth sets at that event], and WI 2022, so I think his fifth-set record in the last four years is 4-8, and in the last three years it is 2-6.
In 2021, though, he won two fifth sets (v Herbert at RG and v Monfils at the USO) and only lost one (v Shapovalov at the AO). In 2020, he lost a fifth set at the USO v Khachanov. I don't think he played any in 2019.
So, unless I'm missing some from Davis Cup or some other team tournament, I think his career record in fifth sets is won six, lost 10.
(The win against Dimitrov doesn't count as a fifth-set victory even if one were to count it as winning a match from two sets down).
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Pheasant
Legend
That is right. He’s 6-10 in 5-setters. Better yet, 1-3 in his prime, which you pointed out.
I believe that his fitness has improved recently. He’s no longer cramping up. And according to a podcast that I listened to, his team addressed his nerves, which is why they had him hit his FH much harder during the last 4 games of Wimbledon. As a matter of fact, his average FH speed was 88 mph during those last 4 games of Wimbledon; 6 mph faster than the rest of the match.
My gut says that his 5-set record will improve drastically. But we shall see.
jschroe36
New User
you've likely seen this article (french) but it discusses the GGL match in great length and leaves the door open as to how many BPs were saved.
/origin-imgresizer.eurosport.com/2025/06/24/image-f9abc03f-caf2-4bd1-9283-e5f9e864cb70-85-2560-1440.jpeg)
Il y a 20 ans, le miracle fondateur de Djokovic à Wimbledon
Wimbledon 2005. Il y a 20 ans de cela, Novak Djokovic mettait pour la première fois les pieds sur le gazon londonien.
www.eurosport.fr
helterskelter
G.O.A.T.
It might well do. I agree that his fitness and mental toughness will improve. But he, like Federer, or like Nadal on clay, might well always have a worse situation in fifth sets than someone like Alcaraz or Boris Becker, not because the latter are mentally tougher, but because they are more likely to play a fifth set against a much weaker player. Sinner is going to win in three or four sets time and time and time again, because he's disciplined enough to do so. Alcaraz will play fifth sets against someone like Fognini, who is not really in with much chance of beating him. If Sinner rarely needs five against weaker players, then the only fifth sets he will play will be against peers - Alcaraz for now, but potentially some others in future. If that happens, his fifth-set record might not be that great until he gets older and starts being less reliable at beating lesser players.
Nadal only even played three fifth sets in his entire RG career (v Isner in 2011, v Djokovic in 2013, v Auger-Aliassime in 2022). He won all three, of course, but he really was exceptionally mentally tough. I don't think Sinner will ever be as good on hard courts as Nadal was on clay - who is? But it illustrates the point I'm trying to make. (The only fifth sets I know of Nadal playing on clay elsewhere are the 2005 and 2006 Rome finals. Did he play any others?)
Pheasant
Legend
Those are some good points.
jschroe36
New User
Consider the case closed; I consider this to be pretty definitive thanks to the fine folks at the Costa Rican newspaper La Nacion.
As the world's premier Djokovic historian, I say let's put this one to bed.
jschroe36
New User
and if you needed any more evidence; if you follow this thread carefully (beginning on pg 31) it more or less corroborates the 4 MPs saved.Consider the case closed; I consider this to be pretty definitive thanks to the fine folks at the Costa Rican newspaper La Nacion.
As the world's premier Djokovic historian, I say let's put this one to bed.
https://www.****************.com/threads/thursday-op-scores.42811/page-31?nested_view=1&sortby=oldest
jschroe36
New User
And I'd like to have something more official but this leads me to believe Djokovic saved two match points in his final round of qualifying in 2005 against South African Wes Moodie (and Wimbledon doubles champion that same year). So saved two MPs against Moodie and another four in the the 2nd rd against GGL.
So this helps explain why Djokovic may have said he saved six match points during the 2007 press conference after he saved the five against Serra.
https://freeimage.host/i/F8oTVSe
So this helps explain why Djokovic may have said he saved six match points during the 2007 press conference after he saved the five against Serra.
https://freeimage.host/i/F8oTVSe
jschroe36
New User
Also found this from Serbian news source at the time (translated to english)
Novak's match was very exciting, the Spaniard took a 2-0 lead, and Djokovic won two tiebreaks and the decisive fifth set.
"It's really hard to describe how I feel, this is a fantastic success. The success is that I qualified for this competition at all, I think this is the biggest and strongest tennis tournament in the world. I was happy to qualify, let alone reach the peak of my career, reaching the third round of a Grand Slam tournament."
Garcia Lopez won two sets relatively quickly, had an advantage in the third, but Djokovic 'came back from the dead'.
"Even though I won, I played very poorly in the first two sets, I can't describe how I pulled through this match. I saved four or five match points, then I played my best. I think I was mentally stronger and more stable in the fourth and fifth sets, which is the most important thing, I proved to myself that I can handle the best players. And I'm physically ready for it."
Novak's next opponent is Frenchman Sebastien Grosjean, the ninth seed in the tournament. Grosjean defeated Romanian Hanescu in the second round, 3:0.
"I play Grosjean on Saturday, I don't think I have anything to lose. This is the third round of a Grand Slam tournament, the third round of Wimbledon, I will play as much as I can, as much as my strength and psyche allow. I think I will hold out until the end and that I have a chance to advance to the fourth round," Novak Djokovic said to B92 about fifteen minutes after the match with Lopes.
Novak's match was very exciting, the Spaniard took a 2-0 lead, and Djokovic won two tiebreaks and the decisive fifth set.
"It's really hard to describe how I feel, this is a fantastic success. The success is that I qualified for this competition at all, I think this is the biggest and strongest tennis tournament in the world. I was happy to qualify, let alone reach the peak of my career, reaching the third round of a Grand Slam tournament."
Garcia Lopez won two sets relatively quickly, had an advantage in the third, but Djokovic 'came back from the dead'.
"Even though I won, I played very poorly in the first two sets, I can't describe how I pulled through this match. I saved four or five match points, then I played my best. I think I was mentally stronger and more stable in the fourth and fifth sets, which is the most important thing, I proved to myself that I can handle the best players. And I'm physically ready for it."
Novak's next opponent is Frenchman Sebastien Grosjean, the ninth seed in the tournament. Grosjean defeated Romanian Hanescu in the second round, 3:0.
"I play Grosjean on Saturday, I don't think I have anything to lose. This is the third round of a Grand Slam tournament, the third round of Wimbledon, I will play as much as I can, as much as my strength and psyche allow. I think I will hold out until the end and that I have a chance to advance to the fourth round," Novak Djokovic said to B92 about fifteen minutes after the match with Lopes.
jm1980
Talk Tennis Guru
There is also some confusion over how many match points Djokovic saved in his 2005 Wimbledon match against Guillermo Garcia-Lopez.
A big source of this confusion was Djokovic claiming he had saved six match points, in a 2009 interview after saving match points in a win against Florent Serra:
This recollection four years after the match had happened is almost certainly wrong. A couple of news sources at the time of the match say he saved four match points:
Mundo Deportivo (June 24th, 2005), page 27:
La Nacion (dated June 23rd, 2005):
Note that Garcia Lopez himself recalls the match in great detail in an interview. GGL had four match points, all on his serve and in the third -- the first at 5-4 40-30 and three more at 6-5 40-0:
Special thanks to @jschroe36 for doing the research on this. You can read the discussion and his contributions starting in post #350
A big source of this confusion was Djokovic claiming he had saved six match points, in a 2009 interview after saving match points in a win against Florent Serra:
Djokovic said:
This recollection four years after the match had happened is almost certainly wrong. A couple of news sources at the time of the match say he saved four match points:
Mundo Deportivo (June 24th, 2005), page 27:
La Nacion (dated June 23rd, 2005):
Note that Garcia Lopez himself recalls the match in great detail in an interview. GGL had four match points, all on his serve and in the third -- the first at 5-4 40-30 and three more at 6-5 40-0:
Special thanks to @jschroe36 for doing the research on this. You can read the discussion and his contributions starting in post #350
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jschroe36
New User
Thanks for the shout and good summary. I would also like to point out that Djokovic was quoted directly by a Serbian news source B92 at or around the time of the 2005 GGL match and stated (in Serbian) that: "I saved four or five match points, then I played my best."
So he was a bit unclear even shortly after the match.
However, Djokovic did save SIX match points in total, but across two separate matches during his inaugural Wimbledon appearance in 2005. Two match points during the 3rd rd of qualifying vs. big serving South African Wes Moodie (who went on to win the 2005 Doubles title!) and four more in his 2nd round main draw match against Guillermo Garcia-Lopez.
jm1980
Talk Tennis Guru
I think his confusion is understandable. Just putting myself in his shoes: he was 18 at the time, playing at Wimbledon for the first time. The match is not going his way: it gets to 6-3 6-3 5-3 40-30, match point for the other guy. He saves that MP, but a couple of games later it's 6-5 40-0, three consecutive MPs on his opponent's serve.
I'm sure to him it felt like it was more than 4 MP
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