Match Stats/Report - Federer vs Roddick, Wimbledon final, 2009

abmk said:
Disagree, on 2 counts:

1. No one who watched the match seriously, without having an agenda stuffed up their you know what - would think Roddick had only 34 winners in the match.

2. waspsting quite clearly has written in the heading : Winners (including returns, excluding aces)
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I fast forwarded to their winners/UEs stats, didn't read the headline.

I've seen a big portion of the match btw, in replay.
 
Third Serve said:
Fed actually choked the first set about as much as Roddick did the second, a detail many people seem to miss because 6-2 draws a lot of the attention. In reality, Roddick probably only choked one or two points in that tiebreak: that famous one and I believe one other. I’m not even kidding when I say that Fed losing would have been a less clutch loss than 40-15. The match had no business going five in the first place given, as I said, how much Fed was generally outplaying Roddick in most aspects of the game.


Fed’s return game wasn’t completely up to par, sure, but I always get a little annoyed when people (not saying this is you) point out his “poor” returning in the 2009 final but completely overlook that it was even worse in the 2008 final against a much worse server to boot. In general, I think his return game as a whole was worse in 2007-2009 than it was in 2003-2006 and that’s mostly what sets those streaks apart in terms of level. As for his returning throughout the whole tournament, it probably wasn’t completely up to par, but I think he faced some generally great servers throughout the tournament which tanks his numbers a little.

Do agree with you on the 2004 final being a better match but I think you’re overestimating the difference.

I don’t think Fed servebotted very much in RG 2009. Perhaps in the early rounds, maybe, but he certainly improved a lot in his overall game once the QFs rolled around. Wimbledon 2009, maybe, but there’s a marked difference between what Fed was doing and actual servebotting. For one, his baseline game was still up to par, though of course it was below his absolute best. Even well below.

I’m not 100% sure on 2009 being his worst Wimbledon final win given 2012 and 2017. 2012 is probably a bit better but it’s very close, and 2017 is straight-up impossible to rate because... well... Cilic... my ranking probably looks like this:

2005
2003
2004
2006
2007
2008
2012
2009
2017???
Click to expand...
Where would you slot in 2015?

I would drop 04 and put 2015 final around 07/08.
 
RF-18 said:
I fast forwarded to their winners/UEs stats, didn't read the headline.

I've seen a big portion of the match btw, in replay.
Click to expand...

Like I said:

No one who watched the match seriously, without having an agenda stuffed up their you know what - would think Roddick had only 34 winners in the match.

because that Djokovic-pumping, anti-Fed, anti-Roddick agenda has filled your head with rubbish stuff, you didn't even bother to check the simple heading when you saw 34 winners (off the ground)
 
abmk said:
Like I said:

No one who watched the match seriously, without having an agenda stuffed up their you know what - would think Roddick had only 34 winners in the match.

because that Djokovic-pumping, anti-Fed, anti-Roddick agenda has filled your head with rubbish stuff, you didn't even bother to check the simple heading when you saw 34 winners (off the ground)
Click to expand...

That's why I was surprised when I read the stat. Hence my comment on 34 winners.
 
RS said:
2004 Roddick and 2006 Nadal is 50-50 imo.
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I have to disagree. 2015 was the best Federer to that point and Nadal to Fed’s BH won’t work as well with the new racket.

Roddick could Take a set or even go 5 but history suggests Federer is huge favourite.
 
NoleIsBoat said:
I have to disagree. 2015 was the best Federer to that point and Nadal to Fed’s BH won’t work as well with the new racket.

Roddick could Take a set or even go 5 but history suggests Federer is huge favourite.
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Roddick never got a chance to play later years Federer at Wimbeldon . I reckon he would fancy his chances vs 2014/2015 Federer in his 2004 form.
 
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AnOctorokForDinner said:
Federer losing two close sets in a wimbledon final would be a deplorable choke in itself, with that DR too lol. Next thing you tell us kovic hasn't choked four times in five years at the USO 2012-16.
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Fed was the better player but it wouldn't have been unheard of for Roddick to win that way. The only sets where he had a significant DR advantage are 3 and 5. Not sure how the two are related but I don't see how 12/13/15 are chokes?
 
The Guru said:
Fed was the better player but it wouldn't have been unheard of for Roddick to win that way. The only sets where he had a significant DR advantage are 3 and 5. Not sure how the two are related but I don't see how 12/13/15 are chokes?
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Federer choked in USO 2015 and Djokovic in that final was that much better than the 2007-2009 USOs.
 
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BorisRogerFan said:
Roger played like crap during most part of that match, if memory serves. His worst final by far.
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The Guru said:
Interesting. It seems you came to a more favorable conclusion about the match than I did on my rewatch. It's a hard one to get through with all the botting haha. The drama really carried it the first time but when you know who wins it was kinda boring.
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Red Rick said:
It's Stefanki era Roddick, what do you expect. Always said this match was overrated

The idea that Roddick choked this tilts me so much. Him winning this would've been the biggest unclutch of Feds career in a career full of 40-15s and wasted chances

Fed's return game was just suspect this tournament, and I still believe 2009 is Fed's weakest Wimbly final win.
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FO and Wimbledon 2009 have to be without question the most overrated slams over the past 15 years.

Be careful what you say here though; you'll have the whole Fed fanbase hounding you for saying that W'09 was the worst final that Federer has played and WON in his career.

Just a bad match overall. I do think Roddick choked this one; when did a possibility of this happening ever come up against Federer? Safe to say that Federer was relatively poor compared to his prior years at SW'19.

2003-06 Federer and after that at Wimbledon is like night and day with Federer's return game. No comparison in my opinion.
 
Rago said:
FO and Wimbledon 2009 have to be without question the most overrated slams over the past 15 years.

Be careful what you say here though; you'll have the whole Fed fanbase hounding you for saying that W'09 was the worst final that Federer has played and WON in his career.

Just a bad match overall. I do think Roddick choked this one; when did a possibility of this happening ever come up against Federer? Safe to say that Federer was relatively poor compared to his prior years at SW'19.

2003-06 Federer and after that at Wimbledon is like night and day with Federer's return game. No comparison in my opinion.
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Hard agree. Fed fans get most if it right with how great he was on grass in the 00s but 09 is just so much worse. That RG is pretty massively overrated too I agree. Then for some reason Fed fans detract from their own guy's spectacular 2012 run that was clearly better than 09. Weird stuff.
 
The Guru said:
Hard agree. Fed fans get most if it right with how great he was on grass in the 00s but 09 is just so much worse. That RG is pretty massively overrated too I agree. Then for some reason Fed fans detract from their own guy's spectacular 2012 run that was clearly better than 09. Weird stuff.
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Cognitive dissonance. They can’t admit that any post 09 performance were better than some 03-09 ones, otherwise that opens the door to the fact Djokovic beat some well playing prime/peak versions of Fed.
 
Rago said:
FO and Wimbledon 2009 have to be without question the most overrated slams over the past 15 years.

Be careful what you say here though; you'll have the whole Fed fanbase hounding you for saying that W'09 was the worst final that Federer has played and WON in his career.

Just a bad match overall. I do think Roddick choked this one; when did a possibility of this happening ever come up against Federer? Safe to say that Federer was relatively poor compared to his prior years at SW'19.

2003-06 Federer and after that at Wimbledon is like night and day with Federer's return game. No comparison in my opinion.
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Do you think the Federer - Del Potro FO 2009 SF was overrated?
 
RS said:
Do you think Del Potro of FO 2009 was overrated?
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From the stratospheric levels Fed fans build him up to be at certainly. Like some of them rate him over 2015 Stan lol. He was a good opponent but he's clearly overrated.
 
The Guru said:
From the stratospheric levels Fed fans build him up to be at certainly. Like some of them rate him over 2015 Stan lol. He was a good opponent but he's clearly overrated.
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Stan smashed the poll last year IIRC between those two but i think i saw a Del Potro RG 09 > Stan RG 15 debate on some threads.
 
The Guru said:
From the stratospheric levels Fed fans build him up to be at certainly. Like some of them rate him over 2015 Stan lol. He was a good opponent but he's clearly overrated.
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Again, I think Federer played his best at the French Open in 2007 under normal conditions; just choked on BPs by going 1/17 and ran into a great Nadal. 2011 with lighter balls favored big servers and played more like a hardcourt and I don't consider that to represent his true level at RG.
 
Rago said:
Again, I think Federer played his best at the French Open in 2007 under normal conditions; just choked on BPs by going 1/17 and ran into a great Nadal. 2011 with lighter balls favored big servers and played more like a hardcourt and I don't consider that to represent his true level at RG.
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Exactly right 07 is his best for a normal RG and 11 is the other top run due to conditions and phenomenal serving. 09 clearly a step below these two.
 
The Guru said:
Hard agree. Fed fans get most if it right with how great he was on grass in the 00s but 09 is just so much worse. That RG is pretty massively overrated too I agree. Then for some reason Fed fans detract from their own guy's spectacular 2012 run that was clearly better than 09. Weird stuff.
Click to expand...

The Guru said:
From the stratospheric levels Fed fans build him up to be at certainly. Like some of them rate him over 2015 Stan lol. He was a good opponent but he's clearly overrated.
Click to expand...

LOL, 2009 RG final from fed > any Djokovic match at RG. played very well in the QF vs Monfils. semi played well enough to stave off a red-hot delpo.
delpo was a little better than waw in the tournament as well as the respective matches. stats show that. even with delpo's draw being clearly tougher. But then agenda-driven ********* are just frustrated at fed's epic RG-W double.

2012 Wim run - fed was 2 points away from losing vs Benneteau.
in the 12 final, he only had 22% serves unreturned - clearly below par for him, on top of his fh being below par for a set and half.

2009 Wim semi by fed was haas vs his best Wim match after 2006. Also played pretty well vs Karlovic in the QF
 
Third Serve said:
It’s actually close to the truth, though. Murray played a good first set but he was pretty terribad in the next three.
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It's not. No version of prime Andy Murray is tired after one set lol. Say he was bad fine fair enough but he wasn't tired. Also, I think it was more that Djoko just kicked it into a gear that Andy doesn't have on clay. Murray wasn't all that bad he just isn't really good enough to do much better than a 4 set loss on clay.
 
Third Serve said:
Fed actually choked the first set about as much as Roddick did the second, a detail many people seem to miss because 6-2 draws a lot of the attention. In reality, Roddick probably only choked one or two points in that tiebreak: that famous one and I believe one other. I’m not even kidding when I say that Fed losing would have been a less clutch loss than 40-15. The match had no business going five in the first place given, as I said, how much Fed was generally outplaying Roddick in most aspects of the game.


Fed’s return game wasn’t completely up to par, sure, but I always get a little annoyed when people (not saying this is you) point out his “poor” returning in the 2009 final but completely overlook that it was even worse in the 2008 final against a much worse server to boot. In general, I think his return game as a whole was worse in 2007-2009 than it was in 2003-2006 and that’s mostly what sets those streaks apart in terms of level. As for his returning throughout the whole tournament, it probably wasn’t completely up to par, but I think he faced some generally great servers throughout the tournament which tanks his numbers a little.

Do agree with you on the 2004 final being a better match but I think you’re overestimating the difference.

I don’t think Fed servebotted very much in RG 2009. Perhaps in the early rounds, maybe, but he certainly improved a lot in his overall game once the QFs rolled around. Wimbledon 2009, maybe, but there’s a marked difference between what Fed was doing and actual servebotting. For one, his baseline game was still up to par, though of course it was below his absolute best. Even well below.

I’m not 100% sure on 2009 being his worst Wimbledon final win given 2012 and 2017. 2012 is probably a bit better but it’s very close, and 2017 is straight-up impossible to rate because... well... Cilic... my ranking probably looks like this:

2005
2003
2004
2006
2007
2008
2012
2009
2017???
Click to expand...
Let's say 2017 is impossible to rate.

I give it 0 chance 2009 was better than 2012. Djokovic and Murray back to back in 2012 is huge.
 
The Guru said:
It's not. No version of prime Andy Murray is tired after one set lol. Say he was bad fine fair enough but he wasn't tired. Also, I think it was more that Djoko just kicked it into a gear that Andy doesn't have on clay. Murray wasn't all that bad he just isn't really good enough to do much better than a 4 set loss on clay.
Click to expand...
It is close to the truth, the one difference being that Murray was just outright bad, not tired.
 
Rago said:
FO and Wimbledon 2009 have to be without question the most overrated slams over the past 15 years.

Be careful what you say here though; you'll have the whole Fed fanbase hounding you for saying that W'09 was the worst final that Federer has played and WON in his career.

Just a bad match overall. I do think Roddick choked this one; when did a possibility of this happening ever come up against Federer? Safe to say that Federer was relatively poor compared to his prior years at SW'19.

2003-06 Federer and after that at Wimbledon is like night and day with Federer's return game. No comparison in my opinion.
Click to expand...

AO 17 final
AO 18 final
Wim 12 final

all 3 won finals worse than Wim 09 final

what is bad is your horrible analysis and hyper-expectations of fed vs Roddick.
 
The Guru said:
It's not. No version of prime Andy Murray is tired after one set lol. Say he was bad fine fair enough but he wasn't tired. Also, I think it was more that Djoko just kicked it into a gear that Andy doesn't have on clay. Murray wasn't all that bad he just isn't really good enough to do much better than a 4 set loss on clay.
Click to expand...

Murray took djoko to 5 in RG 15, lol.
 
abmk said:
LOL, 2009 RG final from fed > any Djokovic match at RG. played very well in the QF vs Monfils. semi played well enough to stave off a red-hot delpo.
delpo was a little better than waw in the tournament as well as the respective matches. stats show that. even with delpo's draw being clearly tougher. But then agenda-driven ********* are just frustrated at fed's epic RG-W double.

2012 Wim run - fed was 2 points away from losing vs Benneteau.
in the 12 final, he only had 22% serves unreturned - clearly below par for him, on top of his fh being below par for a set and half.

2009 Wim semi by fed was haas vs his best Wim match after 2006. Also played pretty well vs Karlovic in the QF
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2021 Djokovic would straight set 09 Fed at RG let’s not kid ourselves.
 
abmk said:
AO 17 final
AO 18 final
Wim 12 final

all 3 won finals worse than Wim 09 final

what is bad is your horrible analysis and hyper-expectations of fed vs Roddick.
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Would you rate as a better level for Federer the USO 07 final or the Wim 09 final?
 
The Guru said:
Lol other than that. Cmon just admit that's a stupid take. Say he was bad whatever but tired is ridiculous lol. The QF/SF weren't even very physical. Cmon now
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It looked to me like he was in that match. I am not sure about others but probably not in many others because Murray is a great athlete.
 
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The Guru said:
Lmao dude's a psycho. He keeps replying to me months after I told him I wasn't gonna reply to him anymore. He's so aggressive and hostile it'd be comical if it wasn't concerning. Haven't said anything to him in months and I'm still in his sig. Rent free lmao
Click to expand...

This isn't a private conversation. This is a public forum. I reply to point out your wrong stuff to others and also to laugh at your comical analysis, TheHackyHack. :-D :-D
I just reply to you just as anyone else in the forum. I don't chase you for anything. Stop flattering yourself, delusional ******** :-D:-D
Immensely butthurt at being laughed at for your statements, (the one in my sig)? :-D:-D
You aren't the only one in my sig.
Its about having fun at how comical you are. :)

My sig has multiple such comical stuff from different people.
 
RF-18 said:
So you are gonna ignore his performance FO 15 QFs? 2021 RG SF?

You say it with such certainty.
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FO 15 QF is close, but I think RG 2009 final was even better.
LOL @ 2021 RG SF. prime federer would take care of that djokovic considerably more easily than he did in RG 11 SF. Maybe lose a set, but the sets he'd win be less closer.
 
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