Match Stats/Report - Federer vs Roddick, Wimbledon final, 2009
- Thread starter Waspsting
- Start date
RS
Bionic Poster
lol
AnOctorokForDinner
Talk Tennis Guru
Fred lost the first set by a break with DR>1, that's a fail on its own.
You don't see how Joe's 12/13/14/16 USO losses are all matches he should have won?
The Guru
Legend
12 wind ****ed him more than anything. It's hard to dream up worse conditions for Novak than that final and he still almost/arguably should have won and against peak Murray that's not too bad. It's a loss I can live with. It sucks though cuz 12 USO would've been his peak run. 13 USO was a peak ATG a loss to that level happens. He choked the 0-40 but other than that Nadal was just better. Djoko's FH just wasn't up to par. Even if he had played well no guarantee he wins though. 2014/16 he was the better player and lost/choked. Those two are bad.
RS
Bionic Poster
Federer USO 06 F vs Novak USO 12 QF who wins ?
AnOctorokForDinner
Talk Tennis Guru
Wind is such an excuse for the mental tietan Noel is painted to be, bleh. So is Nadal's supposed sky high level... peakovic would've blitzed him again come on.
AnOctorokForDinner
Talk Tennis Guru
The Guru
Legend
Novak sucks in windy conditions. Also, yeah sure Peak Novak beats Peak Nadal but he's not gonna be at his best every match and if he brings his B game Nadal wins.
AnOctorokForDinner
Talk Tennis Guru
Djokovic made Nadal look peak by playing disgustovic...
InsideOut900
Legend
That was more on Djokovic honestly.
Good performance by Murray, but in his 2016 SF and F form, Djoko would handle him easily.
NoleIsBoat
Hall of Fame
RS
Bionic Poster
In how many sets?
The Guru
Legend
How do you explain Canada then? Nadal was no joke. Show me Fed's wins over slam HC Nadal. He couldn't even beat babydal in BO 5 during his peak at Nadal's worst master without egregious officiating help. Nadal's a beast losing to him is not a choke.
abmk
Bionic Poster
2016 SF/F was better, but I just replied to the statement he made.
InsideOut900
Legend
Ok.
AnOctorokForDinner
Talk Tennis Guru
Djokovic double faulted on both BPs he faced in set 1 like a mental midget. Nadal played a great third set yes. One set he won without giftovic acts. Only such set on HC since Miami 11 ha.
NoleIsBoat
Hall of Fame
I think 2021 Djokovic defeats the best Federer in 4 sets there
RS
Bionic Poster
Not as good as some on here.
The Guru
Legend
I mean I don't disagree Novak was a mental wreck but you're still not countering my argument and lol to the last thing. You must think Novak's an absolute monster BOAT if you believe that.
NoleIsBoat
Hall of Fame
RS
Bionic Poster
Wow that is strong.
AnOctorokForDinner
Talk Tennis Guru
He's considerably better than Nadal off clay so should win barring choking (or a massive difference in form like some pre-2011 encounters). Same as Federer. Nadal of course played well and smart to extract those chokes.
Third Serve
Talk Tennis Guru
edit: read that wrong
abmk
Bionic Poster
1. Paris is Nadal's worst Masters, not Miami
2. 2005 Miami was the 2nd best Nadal there (after 2011). But babydal, ok. LOL.
3. Matchup-wise, Miami is a bad surface for fed to play Nadal on.
4. Playing badly for 2 sets (1 and 4) and choking away set3+nadal being clutch is a choke. Just like fed losing AO 09 was choking because he was the better player over 1st 4 sets (but had to split it 2 all) and played a poor 5th set. And nadal was clearly better in the AO 09 final than in the USO 13 final.
The Guru
Legend
So let me get this right. If Djokovic wasn't a choker he'd never drop a set to Nadal on HC/Grass? What? Also, I just disagree whole heartedly with your premise. Nadal is far less consistent than Fedovic but his peak is not that below. Djokovic 11>Fed 07>Nadal 09/12 and Fed03/05>Djokovic 15>Nadal 08 but that gap isn't massive.
RF-18
Talk Tennis Guru
No, I bet he wouldn't. It's easy to predict the "correct" score in time travel tennis, but reality is Djoko was on fire here from the ground. He beat Nadal.
abmk
Bionic Poster
2011 RG semi Djoko > 2021 RG semi djoko by a significant margin. from the ground and overall. Not even remotely close. So yeah.
In RG 2021 semi, Djoko played a below par 1st set and could've lost the 3rd set easily inspite of being the better player.
Djoko beat a below par Nadal (by prime Nadal standards). In RG 21 semi, Nadal played a good 1st set, below par 2nd set, meh 3rd set level wise but fought well, horrible 4th set.
What I said is based on the levels of the matches that actually happened.
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RS
Bionic Poster
Okay.
RF-18
Talk Tennis Guru
You could say that about many matches where one could have lost the set, but as you said yourself Djoko was the better player in that set.
There is no way Djoko in 11 SF was significantly better losing in 4 sets vs winning in 4 vs Nadal. What is this. Djokovic was stronger off the ground in 2021 SF, and physically aswell. Djoko had 50+ UEs in the RG 11 encounter. Why are you saying he was significantly better in 11 SF?
RS
Bionic Poster
If you had to pick a year Djokovic played best in each slam which year would it be?
abmk
Bionic Poster
Because I have frickin eyes and am not deluded.
Djokovic was better in almost every aspect in RG 2011 semi than in RG 2021 semi. Not even remotely close overall.
Your problem is you have an agenda stuck up your you know where instead of actually evaluating properly.
Djokovic had 41 UEs in the 2011 SF, not 50+.
He had 40 winners and forced 61 errors from federer.
So 101 Winners+errors forced to 41 UEs.
Roland Garros - The 2011 French Open - Official Site by IBM
The official site of the 2011 Roland Garros is designed, built and hosted by IBM. We feature information on the French Open tennis tournament, player stats, schedule of play, results, interviews, and real-time scores.
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Djoko had to save SP in 3rd set in RG 21 SF. That's very close to losing the set.
RF-18
Talk Tennis Guru
Your eyes are biased cause Federer was on the other side of the net.
You are the one clearly deluded saying Djokovic was significantly better in a match he lost in 4 sets vs winning in 4 against Nadal on chatrier and every significant stat in 11 SF was worse than his 2021 stats.
Both FH and BH was better in 21 SF. He was better mentally under pressure, physically he was stronger. In 11 SF there were signs of tiredness towards the end.
Are you sure you somehow haven't mixed up the matches?
D
Deleted member 779124
Guest
Typical strawman argument this is not the average Federer fan belief maybe a few at best. What many Federer fans would say is Roddick of say W 2004 was better than say the Djokovic that showed up to Murray in W 2013 or something like that.
abmk
Bionic Poster
Djoko was also significantly better in RG 13 SF than in RG 21 SF. Has nothing to do with fed.
@ the bold part: absolutely hot garbage (even by your standards)
1. Djoko was broken only 4 times in RG 11 SF compared to 6 times in RG 21 SF for one.
2. Djoko was +61 in W+errors forced to UEs in 2011 RG semi, +50 in the 2021 RG semi (granted 2011 RG semi had more points).
djoko's FH and BH both better in RG 11 semi.
also ghanta mentally better under pressure in 2021 RG semi. Djoko saved 21/25 BPs in the 2011 RG semi. Made 1st serves and played clutch to save majority of them.
Messed up at 5-4,30-0 in 3rd set of RG 21 semi with easy messed up FH, but did great to save SP with drop shot. what else of significance in 21 RG semi?
lol @ signs of tiredness in RG 11 semi. Nothing of that sort for 11 Djoko in that match. I mean are you that pathetically desperate?
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D
Deleted member 779124
Guest
I think Nadal and Djokovic are on a peak similar level at W and USO and no clear answer to who is better.
The Guru
Legend
Well then you're wrong lol
D
Deleted member 779124
Guest
Would be interested to know why you think it is not similar ( W 2008 vs W 2015 and USO 2010 vs USO 2011) . I would back Djokovic slightly in H2H battle though.
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Third Serve
Talk Tennis Guru
Yeah I do think Djokovic played a bit of a better match at RG 2011 compared to RG 2021. I actually can’t name a single thing he did better in 2021 besides the serve maybe? Did go on a few mental walkabouts in 2011 SF but there’s no shortage of those in 2021 SF either. Maybe we should wait till the dust truly settles on that match but I don’t really see what most people see in that one. A good but slightly inconsistent Djokovic versus a bang-average Nadal with no legs sums up the match for me.
abmk
Bionic Poster
Djoko was broken 6 times in RG 21 semi compared to 4 times in RG 11 semi. The only walkabout Djoko had in the RG 11 semi was in the 2nd set, IIRC.
RF-18
Talk Tennis Guru
Djoko was also significantly better in RG 13 SF than in RG 21 SF. Has nothing to do with fed.
@ the bold part: absolutely hot garbage (even by your standards)
1. Djoko was broken only 4 times in RG 11 SF compared to 6 times in RG 21 SF for one.
2. Djoko was +61 in W+errors forced to UEs in 2011 RG semi, +50 in the 2021 RG semi (granted 2011 RG semi had more points).
djoko's FH and BH both better in RG 11 semi.
also ghanta mentally better under pressure in 2021 RG semi. Djoko saved 21/25 BPs in the 2011 RG semi. Made 1st serves and played clutch to save majority of them.
Messed up at 5-4,30-0 in 3rd set of RG 21 semi with easy messed up FH, but did great to save SP with drop shot. what else of significance in 21 RG semi?
lol @ signs of tiredness in RG 11 semi. Nothing of that sort for 11 Djoko in that match. I mean are you that pathetically desperate?
And how many times did Djoko break Nadal contra vs Federer?
Djoko had more overall winners, more FH winners, more BH winners, less UEs. Stronger both physically and mentally, stronger off the ground,against Nadal on chatrier, who is alot harder to hit outright winners against. And he won in 4. The other match he lost in 4 sets.
D
Deleted member 779124
Guest
Federer beat both in 4 sets and imo Murray played better than Djokovic on grass in 2012 so not sure Federer playing considerably better vs Djokovic than Murray in W 2012.
InsideOut900
Legend
He kind of brainfarted the 1st set TB away.
Was up 5-4 and made 3 easy UE to lose it 7-5. Granted Fed made 1 or 2 UE to give him the 5-4 lead in the first place.
Third Serve
Talk Tennis Guru
The big difference is the serving. Murray returned well in 2012 but Fed served amazingly in the Djokovic match and it kinda dipped a little in the final imo. Also, Fed didn’t play that well in the first set of the final and I don’t think he had any such lapses in the semifinal. Even the one set Djokovic won was all on Djokovic: it was one of Novak’s better sets on grass.
abmk
Bionic Poster
Yeah, djoko broke nadal more times than he did fed because nadal was clearly worse.
You said
"every significant stat in 11 SF was worse than his 2021 stats. "
which is utter deluded hot garbage even by your standards.
as far as your stats are concerned, mine covers more ground than yours
1. Djoko had 101 winners+errors forced to 41 UEs in 2011 semi (+60)
2. Djoko had 87 winners+errors forced to 37 UEs in 2021 semi (+50)
21 Nadal was tougher to hit winners against than 11 Fed ?
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
wait
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
The Guru
Legend
Fed always seemed to have an outlier serving performance vs Djoko in slams in that period. I mean he completely served out of his shoes in W 12 and RG 11 and his serving at the USO SF was also pretty ridiculous.
Third Serve
Talk Tennis Guru
Yeah Fed has rarely given Novak an easy time on the return. Probably the best of them all as far as pure serving goes might be the 2019 WTF RR. Utterly ridiculous serving from Fed and he might have been even better than in that 2015 Wimbledon SF just on that shot alone.
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