Match Stats/Report - Federer vs Roddick, Wimbledon final, 2009

[Deleted member 779124]

The big difference is the serving. Murray returned well in 2012 but Fed served amazingly in the Djokovic match and it kinda dipped a little in the final imo. Also, Fed didn’t play that well in the first set of the final and I don’t think he had any such lapses in the semifinal. Even the one set Djokovic won was all on Djokovic: it was one of Novak’s better sets on grass.

I think Fed was a little bit better vs Djokovic because of that serving but Federer seemed better of the ground and net vs Murray though.

 

[abmk]

Fed always seemed to have an outlier serving performance vs Djoko in slams in that period. I mean he completely served out of his shoes in W 12 and RG 11 and his serving at the USO SF was also pretty ridiculous.

Fed's serving in USO 11 SF was good, but nothing ridiculous by his standards. He and Djoko had similar% of unreturned serves - around 28%/29%. (granted djoko had couple more DFs).
Also shaky serving on MP and then DF on BP at 5-3 (IIRC)

Fed's serving in AO 11 was decent/normal. Nothing outlier.
RG 12 semi was just garbage serving.

 

[The Guru]

Yeah Fed has rarely given Novak an easy time on the return. Probably the best of them all as far as pure serving goes might be the 2019 WTF RR. Utterly ridiculous serving from Fed and he might have been even better than in that 2015 Wimbledon SF just on that shot alone.

Part of that is Djokovic has returned Fed's serve like actual dog crap ever since his rebirth. Djokovic I think also just has more problems with Fed's disguise than most for whatever reason. Still though it annoys me Fed always serves so much better than normal against Novak. Especially RG 11 annoys me because I think Novak would've won in the final if he had the gas for it.

 

[abmk]

He kind of brainfarted the 1st set TB away.
Was up 5-4 and made 3 easy UE to lose it 7-5. Granted Fed made 1 or 2 UE to give him the 5-4 lead in the first place.

last point was a makeable FH off the fed slice BH if fully focussed. But fed was slicing&dicing well in this match.
point before that is what I'd call a semi-forced error.
at 4-5 fed serving, 10+ shot rally. My copy somehow breaks towards the ending of the point.

A dip for sure from Djokovic, but wouldn't call it a brainfart.

 

[RF-18]

Yeah, djoko broke nadal more times than he did fed because nadal was clearly worse.
You said
"every significant stat in 11 SF was worse than his 2021 stats. "

which is utter deluded hot garbage even by your standards.

as far as your stats are concerned, mine covers more ground than yours

1. Djoko had 101 winners+errors forced to 41 UEs in 2011 semi (+60)
2. Djoko had 87 winners+errors forced to 37 UEs in 2021 semi (+50)

21 Nadal was tougher to hit winners against than 11 Fed ?
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
wait
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

Tennisabstract has Nole sitting at 56 UEs, @Waspsting has Nole at 53 UEs in open play (excluding serves and returns).

 

[RS]

What do you mean?

Best slam tournament Djokovic played at each slam.

 

[mike danny]

Hard agree. Fed fans get most if it right with how great he was on grass in the 00s but 09 is just so much worse. That RG is pretty massively overrated too I agree. Then for some reason Fed fans detract from their own guy's spectacular 2012 run that was clearly better than 09. Weird stuff.

Cleatly better is pushing it.

 

[RS]

@Waspsting

Which match did you think was a better match this or the Wim 15 final?

 

[RF-18]

Best slam tournament Djokovic played at each slam.

I'll start with AO.

AO: 2019/2011
Honorable mention: 2008

It's really hard to just pick one. In most of Djokovic's slam runs he usually has had some luls in the middle of the tournament but then some crazy peak performances at the end of it. 2011 AO and AO 08 were clean consistent runs with high peaks thrown in there and beat real competent high level HC opponents, these 2 tournaments probably his most consistent slam runs over 2 weeks in any of his slams, not just at AO. But for me AO 19 is a personal favourite cause of what he did to Nadal. Djokovic in those 2 last matches could have beaten Nadal and an opponent of his choice at the same time. His serve, return, ground game I just think was unstoppable. Djokovic was god mode here and belongs in my highest peak list.

 

[Waspsting]

Adding on a bit, Roddick makes 11 groundstroke UEs in last 4 games (5 FH, 6 BH), which I'd put down to him being physically out of it
Federer has 0 over the same period. Neither player hits a winner other than aces

Taking those UEs to be a product of stamina (for which Fed's superiority is duly noted) and not any general issue with consistency of shot, rest of match (i.e. sans stamina issues), UE counts read
- Federer 44 (23 FH, 19 BH, 2 FHV)
- Roddick 46 (18 FH, 25 BH, 3 BHV)

That looks better for Roddick, and more in line with how it looked to my eye. He played a clean match... virtually the same as Federer

Both players using BH to stay in rallies
Fed dominating play with FH, in a way Roddick can't
Roddick coming to net to attack, in a way Fed doesn't

Great match breakdown as always must have been a tough match to rewatch

I statted the '12 US Open final. This is pornography compared to that

Your winners shows 35 FH, but then underneath they add up to 21?

Federer's FHs - 10 cc (4 passes, 1 at net), 7 dtl (1 pass), 1 inside-out (1 at net), 3 inside-in, 2 longline and 1 longline/inside-in
...
- 1 from a serve-volley point, a first 'volley' FH at net drop shot

FH inside-out should read 11... taking total under FH to 34

There's also a first 'volley' FH at net under winners from serve-volley points to make it 35

Nice catch - thanks. editting in

If you ever spot something like that being off, please let me know

Interesting. It seems you came to a more favorable conclusion about the match than I did on my rewatch. It's a hard one to get through with all the botting haha. The drama really carried it the first time but when you know who wins it was kinda boring.

I don't think its a bad match in absolute sense

Serve-botty matches are hard to assess in terms of quality and I agree, once you know the result, its not interesting to rewatch

In real time, its like a penalty shoot out. The thrill of what happens next or who'll break first is there and you know whatever will happen, will happen quickly

Once you know the outcome though? Not much left to offer in terms of beauty of the game

But from players point of view... if your getting things done with the serve alone, bravo

Federer is +8 winners/UE differential and +29 winners + errors forced/UE differential
Roddick is - 23 and +10

Comparing with other Federer Wimbledon finals -

'03... Fed +21 and +35
... Philippoussis -2 and +10 (this a serve-volley match, hence, low UE counts)

- '04...Fed +11 and +31
... Rod -4 and +25

- '06... Fed -10 and +13
... Nadal -1, and +13

- '07... Fed -7 and +26
... Nadal +16 and +43

- '08... Nadal +18 and +53
... Fed -5 and +41

- '12... Fed +9 and +43
... Murray -14 and +5

- '14... Djoko +11 and +49
.... Fed +3 and +34

- '15... Djoko +10 and +38
... Fed +1 and +34

'19... Djoko -8 and +29
... Fed -7 and +22

 

[abmk]

Tennisabstract has Nole sitting at 56 UEs, @Waspsting has Nole at 53 UEs in open play (excluding serves and returns).

Firstly TA UE stats are unreliable.
I'm taking UE stats from official statisticians for both the matches - 2011 RG and 2021 RG - a common standard, clearly more reliable than TA UE stats.

Just FYI, TA has 47 UEs for Djokovic in the 2021 RG semi as opposed to 37 UEs in the official stats.
Also 64 UEs for Nadal as opposed to 55 UEs in the official stats.

2021 Roland Garros SF: Rafael Nadal vs Novak Djokovic Detailed Stats | Tennis Abstract

 

[Roddickulous1]

Fed actually choked the first set about as much as Roddick did the second, a detail many people seem to miss because 6-2 draws a lot of the attention. In reality, Roddick probably only choked one or two points in that tiebreak: that famous one and I believe one other. I’m not even kidding when I say that Fed losing would have been a less clutch loss than 40-15. The match had no business going five in the first place given, as I said, how much Fed was generally outplaying Roddick in most aspects of the game.

Nah, Fed didn't choke or blow the first set as much as Roddick did the second. Although Fed blew the BP at 5 all, its not a NID thing he would've won as the reality is Roddick broke him in the next game which would've meant a TB. Now, its possible that game plays out differently because Fed could've gained momentum from the break and served the set out but its not a set in stone thing as Roddick winning the second set if he didnt blow SP.

Also, its tough to say how many points Roddick choked in the second set TB. I absolutely do think he tightened up after 6-2 though. Although Fed won the point at 6-2 with a difficult half volley crosscourt BH, Roddick's initial shot selection off the blocked return was not good to me and I didn't think the return was particularly tough to handle. Roddick chose to hit a soft slice up the middle which landed right in Federer's strike zone which allowed Fed to gain control of the point. There was literally no reason for Roddick to go from a offensive position to a defensive one by opting for the slice. No guarantee Roddick wins the point even if he did something differently but his shot selection on the slice was pretty questionable.

Points at 6-3 and 6-4 were saved by Fed's serving. Not much Roddick could've done there. 6-5 had that volley but people rarely mention how Roddick missed both his first serves at 6-5 and 6-6 although the latter obviously wasn't a SP. This is more damning by the fact that Roddick was killing the first serve percentage up to that point in the second set (well over 80 percent first serves in for the second set up till 6-5 in the TB) and also because Roddick only won 25 percent of the second serve points in the second set so Roddick was really banking on the first serve and it failed him on both occasions. Whether you wanna call this a choke, it can be debated. The points at 6-6 and 6-7, while not SPs, Roddick ultimately made errors as well. 6-6, not a good approach with a total mess of a half volley and UE on set point for Fed as he went long on the BH.

 

[Third Serve]

Nah, Fed didn't choke or blow the first set as much as Roddick did the second. Although Fed blew the BP at 5 all, its not a NID thing he would've won as the reality is Roddick broke him in the next game which would've meant a TB. Now, its possible that game plays out differently because Fed could've gained momentum from the break and served the set out but its not a set in stone thing as Roddick winning the second set if he didnt blow SP.

Also, its tough to say how many points Roddick choked in the second set TB. I absolutely do think he tightened up after 6-2 though. Although Fed won the point at 6-2 with a difficult half volley crosscourt BH, Roddick's initial shot selection off the blocked return was not good to me and I didn't think the return was particularly tough to handle. Roddick chose to hit a soft slice up the middle which landed right in Federer's strike zone which allowed Fed to gain control of the point. There was literally no reason for Roddick to go from a offensive position to a defensive one by opting for the slice. No guarantee Roddick wins the point even if he did something differently but his shot selection on the slice was pretty questionable.

Points at 6-3 and 6-4 were saved by Fed's serving. Not much Roddick could've done there. 6-5 had that volley but people rarely mention how Roddick missed both his first serves at 6-5 and 6-6 although the latter obviously wasn't a SP. This is more damning by the fact that Roddick was killing the first serve percentage up to that point in the second set (well over 80 percent first serves in for the second set up till 6-5 in the TB) and also because Roddick only won 25 percent of the second serve points in the second set so Roddick was really banking on the first serve and it failed him on both occasions. Whether you wanna call this a choke, it can be debated. The points at 6-6 and 6-7, while not SPs, Roddick ultimately made errors as well. 6-6, not a good approach with a total mess of a half volley and UE on set point for Fed as he went long on the BH.

I mean, that’s a good argument, but I don’t view choking as exclusively messing up on the big points. Stuff like Roddick failing to nail those first serves in those critical moments of the tiebreak when he had been making them the whole set is about as much of a choke as blowing an individual point that would have given one the advantage. I think Fed did a lot of the former in the first set but your post is making me reconsider things a little.

 

[RS]

I statted the '12 US Open final. This is pornography compared to that

Never know how you managed that one

 

[RS]

5 close sets with Djokovic favourite to prevail 5th set. Even in 06 the peak year, Federer blew a lead against Nadal in Dubai, and multiple leads in the the Rome final, including 2 CP.

Federer RG 2006 final vs Djokovic RG 2015 final?

 

[RF-18]

Nah, Fed didn't choke or blow the first set as much as Roddick did the second. Although Fed blew the BP at 5 all, its not a NID thing he would've won as the reality is Roddick broke him in the next game which would've meant a TB. Now, its possible that game plays out differently because Fed could've gained momentum from the break and served the set out but its not a set in stone thing as Roddick winning the second set if he didnt blow SP.

Also, its tough to say how many points Roddick choked in the second set TB. I absolutely do think he tightened up after 6-2 though. Although Fed won the point at 6-2 with a difficult half volley crosscourt BH, Roddick's initial shot selection off the blocked return was not good to me and I didn't think the return was particularly tough to handle. Roddick chose to hit a soft slice up the middle which landed right in Federer's strike zone which allowed Fed to gain control of the point. There was literally no reason for Roddick to go from a offensive position to a defensive one by opting for the slice. No guarantee Roddick wins the point even if he did something differently but his shot selection on the slice was pretty questionable.

Points at 6-3 and 6-4 were saved by Fed's serving. Not much Roddick could've done there. 6-5 had that volley but people rarely mention how Roddick missed both his first serves at 6-5 and 6-6 although the latter obviously wasn't a SP. This is more damning by the fact that Roddick was killing the first serve percentage up to that point in the second set (well over 80 percent first serves in for the second set up till 6-5 in the TB) and also because Roddick only won 25 percent of the second serve points in the second set so Roddick was really banking on the first serve and it failed him on both occasions. Whether you wanna call this a choke, it can be debated. The points at 6-6 and 6-7, while not SPs, Roddick ultimately made errors as well. 6-6, not a good approach with a total mess of a half volley and UE on set point for Fed as he went long on the BH.

For me it's a choke and I've had run ins with people here about that. I don't think a choke is only about comitting an easy mistake in crunch moments, but a choke revolves around your decision making aswell. For me it's unreal what was going through Roddicks mind when he decided to slice a ball back in the middle of the court wich you refer to the situation yourself, after he, 1) hit a great first serve wich Fed blocked back kinda short and 2) Roddick is now a few meters inside of the court on the 2nd shot and he just slices the ball back to Federer in the middle and gives away the initiative to Federer.

Not many times do I call chokes on players, but Roddicks behaviour and decision making, and mistakes in tight moments is exactly what a choke is. It was terrible how he blew that TB in a grand final.

 

[RS]

For me it's a choke and I've had run ins with people here about that. I don't think a choke is only about comitting an easy mistake in crunch moments, but a choke revolves around your decision making aswell. For me it's unreal what was going through Roddicks mind when he decided to slice a ball back in the middle of the court wich you refer to the situation yourself, after he, 1) hit a great first serve wich Fed blocked back kinda short and 2) Roddick is now a few meters inside of the court on the 2nd shot and he just slices the ball back to Federer in the middle and gives away the initiative to Federer.

Not many times do I call chokes on players, but Roddicks behaviour and decision making, and mistakes in tight moments is exactly what a choke is. It was terrible how he blew that TB in a grand final.

Would you say Murray choked in AO finals vs Novak ?

 

[abmk]

For me it's a choke and I've had run ins with people here about that. I don't think a choke is only about comitting an easy mistake in crunch moments, but a choke revolves around your decision making aswell. For me it's unreal what was going through Roddicks mind when he decided to slice a ball back in the middle of the court wich you refer to the situation yourself, after he, 1) hit a great first serve wich Fed blocked back kinda short and 2) Roddick is now a few meters inside of the court on the 2nd shot and he just slices the ball back to Federer in the middle and gives away the initiative to Federer.

Not many times do I call chokes on players, but Roddicks behaviour and decision making, and mistakes in tight moments is exactly what a choke is. It was terrible how he blew that TB in a grand final.

Fed deserved to win set1 in Wim 09 final and Roddick set2.
Hilarious how ******** exaggerates rubbishly about this, but nothing much about Murray collapsing badly in AO finals vs Novak and RG final. Far worse than Roddick saving set1, but missing set2 in Wim 09 final. Or djoko crumbling to dust after choking away and losing set3 vs Nadal in USO 13 final. Roddick actually played well and fought like hell in Wim 09 final unlike Errorovic/Crumblovic in USO 13 final.
Or how much Djoko got lucky with vulturing so much in the weakest era of all time from 15-21.
ALso Djoko was the one ultra lucky with all the 3 TBs in Wim 19 final anyways. Ultra mega lucky.

 

[RF-18]

Would you say Murray choked in AO finals vs Novak ?

No. Murray never had such chances to go 2 love up. Murray was usually competitive for couple of sets (13,15 finals) then Djoko took over.

 

[RS]

No. Djoko never gifted such chances to Murray to go 2 love up. Murray was usually competitive for couple of sets (13,15 finals) then Djoko took over.

You do not think Murray dipping in level badly had anything to do with 13/15 finals? Murray lost the last 9 games in the AO 15 final when it was near even before that.

 

[abmk]

Nah, Fed didn't choke or blow the first set as much as Roddick did the second. Although Fed blew the BP at 5 all, its not a NID thing he would've won as the reality is Roddick broke him in the next game which would've meant a TB. Now, its possible that game plays out differently because Fed could've gained momentum from the break and served the set out but its not a set in stone thing as Roddick winning the second set if he didnt blow SP.

Federer had lost 3 points on serve till 5 all in the TB. I think its pretty safe to say that if he had broken, he'd have served it out.
Roddick got the confidence from those 4 BPs saved (well 3 saved and 1 missed by fed). That plus fed probably ruing his missed chances led to break.

 

[NoleIsBoat]

Or how much Djoko got lucky with vulturing so much in the weakest era of all time from 15-21.
ALso Djoko was the one ultra lucky with all the 3 TBs in Wim 19 final anyways. Ultra mega lucky.

Yes so lucky having to go through Murray, Federer and Nadal for most of his slams.

Also so lucky in those TBs, hitting alll those winners past Federer.

@abmk

 

[RF-18]

You do not think Murray dipping in level badly had anything to do with 13/15 finals? Murray lost the last 9 games in the AO 15 final when it was near even before that.

Well, he dipped but that wasn't cause he was choking. It was really physical and he couldn't keep it up.

 

[abmk]

No. Murray never had such chances to go 2 love up. Murray was usually competitive for couple of sets (13,15 finals) then Djoko took over.

Murray had his chance to go up 2 sets to love in AO 13 final in the 2nd set TB. Got distracted by a feather.

 

[RS]

Well, he dipped but that wasn't cause he was choking. It was really physical and he couldn't keep it up.

Choking can be broken down into different contexst. Some might say lacking the ablity to keep up physically comes into some sort of choking.

 

[abmk]

Well, he dipped but that wasn't cause he was choking. It was really physical and he couldn't keep it up.

AO 13 final was Murray having blisters.
AO 15 final was Murray falling for Djokovic's shenaningans - BS fakery of possum.

 

[RS]

I had a deleted thread comparing Murray efforts vs Djokovic at AO compared to Roddick against Federer at Wimbeldon in all the 9 matches.

 

[RF-18]

Murray had his chance to go up 2 sets to love in AO 13 final in the 2nd set TB. Got distracted by a feather.

What chance? He lost the TB 7-3. He most definitely did not have 2 Roddick serves and SPs and blew them.

 

[abmk]

What chance? He lost the TB 7-3. He most definitely did not have 2 Roddick serves and SPs and blew them.

A chance to actually play well in the TB to win it, umm?
Murray got distracted by a freaking feather.
If that's not choking/mental issue, what is?

 

[RF-18]

A chance to actually play well in the TB to win it, umm?
Murray got distracted by a freaking feather.
If that's not choking/mental issue, what is?

So? Everyone has a chance to play well. He was in no position to take the TB like Roddick did. Two complete dissimilar situations.

 

[abmk]

So? Everyone has a chance to play well. He was in no position to take the TB like Roddick did. Two complete dissimilar situations.

not everyone gets distracted by a freaking feather in a TB either. That's a clear mental letdown/choking. That's what I was pointing out.

 

[RF-18]

Choking can be broken down into different contexst. Some might say lacking the ablity to keep up physically comes into some sort of choking.

Don't see the connection between the two.

 

[RS]

Don't see the connection between the two.

Fine but would you say Murray AO 13/15 finals was playing as good as Roddick here or was tougher to beat?

 

[abmk]

Fine but would you say Murray AO 13/15 finals was playing as good as Roddick here or was tougher to beat?

I mean you just want to deliberately cause fights, don't you?
Maybe I should give you a dose of your own medicine via trolling vs Nadal?

 

[RS]

I mean you just want to deliberately cause fights, don't you?
Maybe I should give you a dose of your own medicine via trolling vs Nadal?

I thought posters did this anyway.

 

[RF-18]

Fed deserved to win set1 in Wim 09 final and Roddick set2.
Hilarious how ******** exaggerates rubbishly about this, but nothing much about Murray collapsing badly in AO finals vs Novak and RG final. Far worse than Roddick saving set1, but missing set2 in Wim 09 final. Or djoko crumbling to dust after choking away and losing set3 vs Nadal in USO 13 final. Roddick actually played well and fought like hell in Wim 09 final unlike Errorovic/Crumblovic in USO 13 final.
Or how much Djoko got lucky with vulturing so much in the weakest era of all time from 15-21.
ALso Djoko was the one ultra lucky with all the 3 TBs in Wim 19 final anyways. Ultra mega lucky.

Not exaggerating anything, just calling Roddicks play in the TB the way it is.

And lol at calling Djokovic mega lucky in all 3 wimby 19 TBs. What are you even talking about. You call it luck making 0 UEs? You have stooped to a new low. And what any of that has to do with Roddick and Djokos era yada yada I have no clue. Get yourself together man.

 

[abmk]

Not exaggerating anything, just calling Roddicks play in the TB the way it is.

yes, exaggeration. Especially when you won't talk about Roddick saving set1.
When you won't talk about Crumblovic in USO 13.
When you are utterly delusional enough to say Djokovic wasn't lucky in the Wim 19 TBs with fed playing ****ty in all of them.

And lol at calling Djokovic mega lucky in all 3 wimby 19 TBs. What are you even talking about. You call it luck making 0 UEs? You have stooped to a new low. And what any of that has to do with Roddick and Djokos era yada yada I have no clue. Get yourself together man.

LMAO. fed played ****ty TBs - all 3 of them. Djoko was just solid, nothing special. Never has fed played that bad in TBs in a Wim match from 2003 onwards (incl vs Djokovic in 14/15 where they split the TBs in both matches). It was 3 of them, FFS. 1 below par TB is understandable, but 3 in a match is unimaginable.

Wim 19 final TBs:

1st set TB: 1-1, fed misses an easy FH point
5-3: horrible FH CC miss from fed
5-4: another bad FH CC miss from fed
5-6: BH CC miss (deep to an extent)

that's a blown TB, alright. fed loses it from 5-3 up with 3 UEs out of the 4 points.

3rd set TB:

0-0: BH shank off a mid-court ball from fed
0-2: another BH UE off a mid-court ball from fed
1-3: this return is beyond the service line alright, but definitely another BH UE from fed
4-5: djokovic fh is a little over service line, fed misses the BH dropshot

this is also a bad TB from fed.

djokovic was merely solid in this TB. nothing suffocating or great.

Like I said, you have your agenda up your you know where, you tend to make utterlly rubbish assessments.

 

[RF-18]

Fine but would you say Murray AO 13/15 finals was playing as good as Roddick here or was tougher to beat?

Two different matches two different surfaces. One was "first shot" (serve) dominated the other baseline slugfest on who can outlast who.

 

[abmk]

I thought posters did this anyway.

very less compared to what you do.

 

[RF-18]

yes, exaggeration. Especially when you won't talk about Roddick saving set1.
When you won't talk about Crumblovic in USO 13.
When you are utterly insanely delusional enough to say Djokovic wasn't lucky in the Wim 19 TBs with fed playing ****ty in all of them.



LMAO. fed played ****ty TBs - all 3 of them. Djoko was just solid, nothing special. Never has fed played that bad in TBs in a Wim match from 2003 onwards (incl vs Djokovic in 14/15 where they split the TBs in both matches)

Wim 19 final TBs:

1st set TB: 1-1, fed misses an easy FH point
5-3: horrible FH CC miss from fed
5-4: another bad FH CC miss from fed
5-6: BH CC miss (deep to an extent)

that's a blown TB, alright. fed loses it from 5-3 up with 3 UEs out of the 4 points.

3rd set TB:

0-0: BH shank off a mid-court ball from fed
0-2: another BH UE off a mid-court ball from fed
1-3: this return is beyond the service line alright, but definitely another BH UE from fed
4-5: djokovic fh is a little over service line, fed misses the BH dropshot

this is also a bad TB.

djokovic was merely solid in this TB. nothing suffocating or great.

Like I said, you have your agenda up your you know where, you tend to make utterlly rubbish assessments.

Not Djokovic's fault he managed to stay more solid than Fed when it mattered while Fed couldn't come up with the goods. Lol at blaming it on mega luck. Blame federer instead of blaming djoko.

 

[abmk]

Not Djokovic's fault he managed to stay more solid than Fed when it mattered while Fed couldn't come up with the goods. Lol at blaming it on mega luck. Blame federer instead of blaming djoko.

Federer playing 3 bad TBs in a single match at Wimbledon is virtually unimaginable. That's why I said Djokovic was ultralucky with that.
Anyone sane and not deluded by BS agenda would say the same thing.

 

[RF-18]

Federer playing 3 bad TBs in a single match at Wimbledon is virtually unimaginable. That's why I said Djokovic was ultralucky with that.
Anyone sane and not deluded by BS agenda would say the same thing.

Yea Federer blew that final. What do you want more. First time in a long time Djoko plays a bad match vs fed in a slam and fed still can't win while playing better? He has himself to blame, no one else. Considering how bad Djokovic was, him toughening it up in the TBs by not making a single UE and asking the questions to fed is the least you can ask for. And fed couldn't answer him.

 

[abmk]

Yea Federer blew that final. What do you want more. First time in a long time Djoko plays a bad match vs fed in a slam and fed still can't win while playing better? He has himself to blame, no one else. Considering how bad Djokovic was, him toughening it up in the TBs by not making a single UE and asking the questions to fed is the least you can ask for. And fed couldn't answer him.

Djokovic was bad in sets2 and 4. Hardly bad in sets 1,3 or 5 or overall. Average match considering him from after AO 19.
Djoko got lucky with fed messing up that badly in the TBs. But you won't talk about stuff like that until pressured.
Or Crumblovic in USO 13 final.
or Murray distratced by feather in AO 13 final 2nd set TB or by Djoko shennanigans in AO 15 final.

But will happily exaggerate Roddick in Wim 09 final 2nd set TB, ignoring the 1st set and ignoring that Roddick fought all the way playing well.

 

[RF-18]

Djokovic was bad in sets2 and 4. Hardly bad in sets 1,3 or 5 or overall. Average match considering him from after AO 19.
Djoko got lucky with fed messing up that badly in the TBs. But you won't talk about stuff like that until pressured.
Or Crumblovic in USO 13 final.
or Murray distratced by feather in AO 13 final 2nd set TB or by Djoko shennanigans in AO 15 final.

But will happily exaggerate Roddick in Wim 09 final 2nd set TB, ignoring the 1st set and ignoring that Roddick fought all the way playing well.

I talked about Roddick cause the thread and posts here refer to the very well known 2nd set TB. I didn't just mention it out of the blue. Why should I comment on other matches in a Wimbledon 09 final match stats thread? Dude, you just hold a grudge for far too long man.

 

[abmk]

I talked about Roddick cause the thread and posts here refer to the very well known 2nd set TB. I didn't just mention it out of the blue. Why should I comment on other matches in a Wimbledon 09 final match stats thread? Dude, you just hold a grudge for far too long man.

This thread also includes 1st set and posts about it. You didn't talk about that.
I didn't say you mentioned 2nd set TB out of the blue.

I wasn't talking about you commenting on other matches in this thread only, I'm talking about in general (anywhere). Show me where you;ve commented the way on those matches as you did about Wim 09 final 2nd set TB - clearly exaggerating the faults, ignoring the 1st set and that Roddick fought till the very end playing well.
Also you did comment on AO 13/15 finals in this thread. You ignored Murray's mental letdowns in both - feather in AO 13 2nd set TB and by Djoko's possum acting in AO 15 final.
The hypocrisy is off the charts.

Not a grudge at all, just exposing the immense hypocrisy and having a good memory.

 

[Deleted member 779124]

This thread now

 

[B-Line]

I just remember Roddick missing that high backhand volley.

 

[RF-18]

This thread also includes 1st set and posts about it. You didn't talk about that.
I didn't say you mentioned 2nd set TB out of the blue.

I wasn't talking about you commenting on other matches in this thread only, I'm talking about in general (anywhere). Show me where you;ve commented the way on those matches as you did about Wim 09 final 2nd set TB - clearly exaggerating the faults, ignoring the 1st set and that Roddick fought till the very end playing well.
Also you did comment on AO 13/15 finals in this thread. You ignored Murray's mental letdowns in both - feather in AO 13 2nd set TB and by Djoko's possum acting in AO 15 final.
The hypocrisy is off the charts.

Not a grudge at all, just exposing the immense hypocrisy and having a good memory.

I commented on Murray matches upon being asked about it. I don't see where he choked there, feather or not, and how Djokos alleged possum act has anything to do with Roddick choking an incredible opportunity after being 6-2 up and having 2 serves of his own to close it out. Sure, lets equal a feather and an "act" to that. I disagree those two situations are connected in any way. Murray lost the TB 7-3, and was in no position to win it either. Nowhere close to the same what Roddick managed to do. So there is no hypocrisy here.

 

[abmk]

I commented on Murray matches upon being asked about it. I don't see where he choked there, feather or not, and how Djokos alleged possum act has anything to do with Roddick choking an incredible opportunity after being 6-2 up and having 2 serves of his own to close it out. Sure, lets equal a feather and an "act" to that. I disagree those two situations are connected in any way. Murray lost the TB 7-3, and was in no position to win it either. Nowhere close to the same what Roddick managed to do. So there is no hypocrisy here.

that's the point - the mega hypocrisy. You don't want to see or admit when someone has clear mental letdown vs Djokovic. You just categorized both the AO finals as Djoko "outlasting" Murray physically to avoid admitting.
Situation doesn't have to be exactly the same.

 

[Roddickulous1]

Federer had lost 3 points on serve till 5 all in the TB. I think its pretty safe to say that if he had broken, he'd have served it out.
Roddick got the confidence from those 4 BPs saved (well 3 saved and 1 missed by fed). That plus fed probably ruing his missed chances led to break.

While yes, it is very likely that Fed would've closed the first set out (I acknowledged that in my initial post too due to momentum/confidence), there's still tennis to be played. Who knows what could've happened? There's tons of examples of crazy **** happening in tennis. Fed might've still possibly thrown a bad game, Roddick might've been able to cluster a good return game and put himself in a position to break (similar to that 8-all game in 5th set or when he broke in 4th), etc.

The number of points Fed lost on serve up to that point doesn't necessarily mean that's how the next game would play out too. It can give a strong indication, sure but it can't substitute for reality. For example, Roddick missed two consecutive first serves at 6-5 and 6-6 in the 2nd set TB. If you look up his serving numbers up to that point in the second set, I highly doubt he did that. Roddick lost 3 straight points on serve during that TB. Again, highly doubt he lost three straight on serve during the set.

You can't just gift Fed the next game no matter how likely he would've been of winning (and I do admit he would have been likely to do so). If Fed converts BP, there's still tennis to be played. If Roddick gets SP, that set is done. Its why you cannot say the two points were the exact same in value.