Matching tennis racquets by weight and balance

[chazz]

I have two POG oversize racquets I've ordered on TW on seperate occasions. One feels much more headlight and easier to swing than the other. Haven't weighed them yet but it's obvious to me. Even the grip size feels slightly smaller even though they're both 4 1/2. I'd like to purchase two more of the same racquet with similar specs as the lighter of the two I currently have. I know there are other factors such as weight distribution in determining swing weight but if I know the racquets weight and balance, would I be able to get at least in the ballpark to matching the swing weight? If I were to use TW's matching service, would it be better to provide the unstrung weight and balance of the racquet I want to match?

 

[esgee48]

As you stated, matching mass and balance will not match SW/TW. They could match up, but it will be extremely unlikely. As for whether they would be close, that would depend on where and how much lead was added. You should use the TWU Racquet customizers to to this work and possibly obtain the SW before stringing. If you wish to match frames, it is best to do them unstrung. Strings will not help in matching unless they are the same mass. If grommets need to be replaced, do them as part of the matching because they can vary 1-2 grams.

TW has 2 levels of matching service. They will be unstrung. The cheaper option is TW will match as close as they can to your desired specs without going over. They may not be at your desired specs, but those specs will be written on the frames. The more costly option is for them to match to your desired specs with lead tape, etc. In both cases, you need to contact them via phone during or after placing the order to make sure they need to match and at what level.

A possible 3rd option is to use a local pro shop that can measure and tweak the frames to your desired specs. If they have an RDC or similar device, they could do the job quickly. Keep in mind that it may not be possible to match mass, balance, SW and TW without tweaking all the frames. So you have to decide which specs are MOST important to you.

 

[blai212]

As you stated, matching mass and balance will not match SW/TW. They could match up, but it will be extremely unlikely. As for whether they would be close, that would depend on where and how much lead was added. You should use the TWU Racquet customizers to to this work and possibly obtain the SW before stringing. If you wish to match frames, it is best to do them unstrung. Strings will not help in matching unless they are the same mass. If grommets need to be replaced, do them as part of the matching because they can vary 1-2 grams.

TW has 2 levels of matching service. They will be unstrung. The cheaper option is TW will match as close as they can to your desired specs without going over. They may not be at your desired specs, but those specs will be written on the frames. The more costly option is for them to match to your desired specs with lead tape, etc. In both cases, you need to contact them via phone during or after placing the order to make sure they need to match and at what level.

A possible 3rd option is to use a local pro shop that can measure and tweak the frames to your desired specs. If they have an RDC or similar device, they could do the job quickly. Keep in mind that it may not be possible to match mass, balance, SW and TW without tweaking all the frames. So you have to decide which specs are MOST important to you.

i dont understand why SW would not be the same if the mass and balance of the same model racquet is the same. Isn’t SW based on the mass and balance?


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[gutfeeling]

i dont understand why SW would not be the same if the mass and balance of the same model racquet is the same. Isn’t SW based on the mass and balance?


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The answer is weight distribution. The racquet with the more polarized distribution will have higher sw, even if it is the same weight and balance as the other.

 

[Jster]

The answer is weight distribution. The racquet with the more polarized distribution will have higher sw, even if it is the same weight and balance as the other.

i have yet to see a weirdo pair of racquets with matching weight and balance to have different swingweight , given that they are of the same model , before customization.
hoping to see one pair soon.

 

[gutfeeling]

i have yet to see a weirdo pair of racquets with matching weight and balance to have different swingweight , given that they are of the same model , before customization.

It is more common than you would think unfortunately.

 

[Jster]

It is more common than you would think unfortunately.

May be also caused by parallax error upon reading the balance point. even as far as 2mm variance , the sw can differ by 3-5 units.

 

[gutfeeling]

May be also caused by parallax error upon reading the balance point. even as far as 2mm variance , the sw can differ by 3-5 units.

That's possible, in my opinion balance is the least precise measurement for that reason.

 

[Jster]

That's possible, in my opinion balance is the least precise measurement for that reason.

RDC is already a joke with 0.5cm accuracy , hahahaha.

 

[gutfeeling]

RDC is already a joke with 0.5cm accuracy , hahahaha.

.0 and .5 and everything in between!

 

[esgee48]

i dont understand why SW would not be the same if the mass and balance of the same model racquet is the same. Isn’t SW based on the mass and balance?

Balance on a frame is related to the distance of the incremental mass from from the balance point. When you sum up everything, the balance point is where there is equal distribution of mass x distance on both sides of the balance point. SW is based on the square of the distance from the balance point translated to a point 10 cm above the butt cap. So you can have many combinations of mass distributions which will let you have the same total mass and same balance point. Odds are almost 100% that they will not match when you square the distance that the incremental mass is from the balance point for SW.

SW = Mg(D - R)(T/20pi)^2 - M(D - R)^2 + M(R - 10)^2 was derived by a poster in an old thread and shows the translation. Note that all the distance measurements are squared.

 

[HitMoreBHs]

How close do the specs need to be in weight, balance point and swingweight for you to accept is a good enough match? Just how obsessive one gets and whether small differences matter varies greatly by individual. The greater the number of rackets, the harder it will get to get very closely matching frames “off the shelf”, and a degree of customisation will be needed.

In my case, I’m happy enough with variances of Wt 2g, BP 3mm (1HL pt) and SW 5 in my rackets which I purchase in threes. This also means less effort needed in my customisations. I can’t honestly tell a difference between frames within these tolerances in real world play; though I’m sure some others can.

If the available off the shelf rackets aren’t closely enough matched, the general rule of thumb is to pick the lighter, more headlight and lower SW frames since it is easier to “customise upwards”. Good luck with your purchases!

i have yet to see a weirdo pair of racquets with matching weight and balance to have different swingweight , given that they are of the same model , before customization.

I think we have all seen this happen from time to time, and more often than we would like given the $200+ price point that rackets have got to! However, I would agree that in general, if weight and balance point are close, SW generally follows suit. Might not be perfect, but usually within my happy tolerances above. Or maybe I’m just not picky enough!

 

[gutfeeling]

How close do the specs need to be in weight, balance point and swingweight for you to accept is a good enough match? Just how obsessive one gets and whether small differences matter varies greatly by individual. The greater the number of rackets, the harder it will get to get very closely matching frames “off the shelf”, and a degree of customisation will be needed.

In my case, I’m happy enough with variances of Wt 2g, BP 3mm (1HL pt) and SW 5 in my rackets which I purchase in threes. This also means less effort needed in my customisations. I can’t honestly tell a difference between frames within these tolerances in real world play; though I’m sure some others can.

If the available off the shelf rackets aren’t closely enough matched, the general rule of thumb is to pick the lighter, more headlight and lower SW frames since it is easier to “customise upwards”. Good luck with your purchases!



I think we have all seen this happen from time to time, and more often than we would like given the $200 price point that rackets have got to! However, I would agree that in general, if weight and balance point are close, SW generally follows suit. Might not be perfect, but usually within my happy tolerances above. Or maybe I’m just not picky enough!

For a 330 gram racquet with 330 sw, a 1% deviation is 3 grams and 3.3 sw points. I don't think anyone will lose sleep over that. But what if one racquet is +1% and the other is -1%, so a 2% spread. I think that is probably my breaking point. Balance is a little more nebulous in my experience, but I think 1% or 0.3 cm like you noted is probably a good benchmark as well. Agreed that things can become obsessive pretty quickly with no or very little actual difference on the court.

 

[HitMoreBHs]

The trouble with hanging out on Internet forums like TTW is that it can easily feed one’s obsessions since this is a highly self selected group! (The rabbit hole is even deeper when it comes to golf, but that’s a different matter!).

Rather than thinking in +/- variances, I match my sticks by ranges. So in my case, it’s unstrung weight 318-320g, SW 303-308 and I’m good to go. Like you, BP is less specific and I’m fine with a racket that is anywhere 6-10 points headlight. So long as the three frames measure within a 3mm range (eg: 327-330mm for my Gravity Tours; or 322-325mm for my PT600s).

One useful thing that comes out of knowing specs is real world correlation and eventual understanding of one’s own level of necessary obsession! Close enough is good enough. Shrink, anyone?

 

[zipplock]

How close do the specs need to be in weight, balance point and swingweight for you to accept is a good enough match? Just how obsessive one gets and whether small differences matter varies greatly by individual. The greater the number of rackets, the harder it will get to get very closely matching frames “off the shelf”, and a degree of customisation will be needed.

In my case, I’m happy enough with variances of Wt 2g, BP 3mm (1HL pt) and SW 5 in my rackets which I purchase in threes. This also means less effort needed in my customisations. I can’t honestly tell a difference between frames within these tolerances in real world play; though I’m sure some others can.

If the available off the shelf rackets aren’t closely enough matched, the general rule of thumb is to pick the lighter, more headlight and lower SW frames since it is easier to “customise upwards”. Good luck with your purchases!



I think we have all seen this happen from time to time, and more often than we would like given the $200+ price point that rackets have got to! However, I would agree that in general, if weight and balance point are close, SW generally follows suit. Might not be perfect, but usually within my happy tolerances above. Or maybe I’m just not picky enough!

I've been matching racquets for more than a decade, and as long as mass and balance were matched, I have yet to have one racquet be so polarized and the other not, to the point where SW is more than a couple points off. Some people say they can feel 1-2 SW points. I can't. I've found most people cant tell the difference until SW gets closer to 5 points difference. Get the weight and balance matched, then swing them before measuring SW. See What happens.

Edit: 2 decades. Damn I'm getting old.

 

[chazz]

In regards to my racquets I'm pretty sure there is a closer to 10 point difference in swingweight. It is very noticeable. I'm much more comfortable with the lower swingweight as I am able to get really good racquet head speed. If I had to speculate I'd say one was below spec and the other above spec. After seeing some of the replies I'm confident I can get racquets that will be reasonably close in swingweight as long as I know the balance and weight.

 

[Jster]

In regards to my racquets I'm pretty sure there is a closer to 10 point difference in swingweight. It is very noticeable. I'm much more comfortable with the lower swingweight as I am able to get really good racquet head speed. If I had to speculate I'd say one was below spec and the other above spec. After seeing some of the replies I'm confident I can get racquets that will be reasonably close in swingweight as long as I know the balance and weight.

Good luck. But it is kind of annoying when you dont know the exact values for sw.

 

[gutfeeling]

Good luck. But it is kind of annoying when you dont know the exact values for sw.

For those that care enough to eat the shipping costs, you can always send your sticks to a racquet tech with the right equipment, have them take measurements, and if needed customize and/or string the frames.

 

[heftylefty]

@chazz I bought a pair of POGs from Fleabay about a month ago. The seller got them from TW and claim that the sticks were matched by TW for weight and balance. The price was very good and the racquets showed little to no wear. One of has no weight where I can see and the other has two strips of TW weighted tape at the throat.

Here are the stats:
Static Weight: 11.7 oz
Balance: 12 pts Head light
Swing Weight 293
Grip size 4 5/8

 

[chazz]

@chazz I bought a pair of POGs from Fleabay about a month ago. The seller got them from TW and claim that the sticks were matched by TW for weight and balance. The price was very good and the racquets showed little to no wear. One of has no weight where I can see and the other has two strips of TW weighted tape at the throat.

Here are the stats:
Static Weight: 11.7 oz
Balance: 12 pts Head light
Swing Weight 293
Grip size 4 5/8

I like those specs. Swing weight should be around 323 strung and probably a tad more with overgrip and dampener that I use. I don't have a balance board but weighed my two racquets with a kitchen scale. One came in at 346 grams and the other at 354. Eight grams that is very noticeable. Both were weighed with an overgrip and shock absorber on.

 

[El_Yotamo]

While I'm a fan of speculation as much as the next guy, it's clear that from the thread title alone you're lacking in information. What you need to understand is the concept of the inertia tensor, a matrix which contains all the moments of inertia in all axis combinations. Its main diagonal consists of SW, TW, and spinweight and for a symmetrically weighted racquet side to side and in the thickness direction the rest of the terms are all zero. For a given mass, balance, and mass distribution the inertia tensor is unique, that is two racquets must have the exact same inertia tensor if they have the same mass distribution, mass, and balance. Therefore, you need a lot more than just mass and balance to know anything about you racquet's mass distribution. For more info you can see the Wikipedia article for the inertia tensor here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moment_of_inertia#Inertia_tensor , and I also recently made a slightly more in depth post about it on this thread: https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/thought-experiment.670952/#post-14358336

 

[joah310]

If the rackets have same weight, balance, and swingweight, are they completely matched?

 

[chazz]

@El_Yotamo I am aware there are other factors involved in matching racquets aside from the two I mentioned though didn't know the specific terms. However I wasn't aware of how significantly it could throw of the swing weight which is kinda the most important factor in how a racquet plays. What I took from this thread is besides the weight and balance, what I really need to know is the swing weight I want to match and the only way is to either send it to TW to match it(don't know if they do that) or take it to a pro shop that can measure swing weight.