Mats Trollander at it again: "Federer played in the worst era of all time"

BrooklynNY

Hall of Fame
Who Cares, Fed is not the greatest of all time, there is no such thing.
Fed is one of the best who have played the game.

All the praise is he say she say, just as much as Mats Opinion is his.
 

Shaolin

G.O.A.T.
Wilander is becoming like Pat Cash, just spouting off random idiotic comments for attention. Its pretty sad.
 

angiebaby

Semi-Pro
I think Mat is jealous of Federer and Nadal..
00000012.gif

Nah, he is just desperate for attention.

Or both. He's just being ridiculous at this stage.
 

namelessone

Legend
Mats likes federer a lot.

Wilander was hoping that Federer would go onto win the french open in 2006 and become the GOAT. But simply put, Federer let Wilander down.

Wilander was so amazed at roger's talent and game that he thought the only reason why nadal could defeat him was that it was mental.

Hence the "Roger has no balls" comment.

But Wilander really does love Roger..its just that he is a very harsh harsh fan...and thinks that someone with federer's talent should never lose to anyone.

Roger almost makes it look too easy...that wilander feels like he should win everytime.

Thanks for this post. Saved a lot of typing on my part.

This is what people don't seem to get. Wilander LIKES Federer, maybe not a diehard fan, but he definitely likes him more than Nadal. Wilander also said that one of his fav players was Nastase. Wilander was always a workhorse on the field so I think he likes the guys who make it look easy and even admires them.

When Wilander said Fed came out with no balls he didn't look like a guy dissing Fed, he seemed like a disgruntled fan who thought he could do more.

Certainly looked that way to me.

Oh, and as many others have said Wilander has made some pretty stupid remarks in time.
 
J

Jchurch

Guest
Who Cares, Fed is not the greatest of all time, there is no such thing.
Fed is one of the best who have played the game.

All the praise is he say she say, just as much as Mats Opinion is his.


Did GameSampras wake up on the wrong side of the bed this morning?
 
Thanks for this post. Saved a lot of typing on my part.

This is what people don't seem to get. Wilander LIKES Federer, maybe not a diehard fan, but he definitely likes him more than Nadal. Wilander also said that one of his fav players was Nastase. Wilander was always a workhorse on the field so I think he likes the guys who make it look easy and even admires them.

When Wilander said Fed came out with no balls he didn't look like a guy dissing Fed, he seemed like a disgruntled fan who thought he could do more.

Certainly looked that way to me.

Oh, and as many others have said Wilander has made some pretty stupid remarks in time.

Someone that says Fed now isn't worse than 04-07 Fed is a 'fan'? Please.
 
N

NadalAgassi

Guest
I am not a Federer fan but Wilander is ridiculous in alot of his assessment. I sort of agree Federer didnt have the best competition but how he puts it is way out of touch with reality:


Suddenly, Nadal and these guys came up and they’re better than him.

Who exactly is better than him? Nadal has been better than him since 2008. Nobody else.

Djokovic- has lost 4 of his 5 matches with Federer this year and Federer has won 5 slams since Djokovic's last.

Berdych- ROTFL!

Soderling- has beaten Federer 1 out of about 6 tries since his breakthrough began. Has made 2 slam finals and lost both and won 1 Masters.

Murray- has yet to win a slam and been thumped in straight sets both times he played Federer in a slam.


But his era had the worst Nos. 2, 3, 4, 5 we’ve had – the Nalbandians, Roddicks, Hewitts. That’s one of the reasons why Roger dominated so much. He’s not worse (now). He’s still fighting hard and he’s not winning.

Roddick, Hewitt, and Safin have a combined 5 slams. Djokovic, Murray, and Del Potro have a combined 2 at this point. Nalbandian and Davydenko are way better than Soderling and Berdych have proven to be so far.

And Federer for the most part is nowhere near his 2004-2007 level of play.
 

Breaker

Legend
So Federer is as good as he once was now.

Explains why he lost to broken hipped "worst number 2" Hewitt on grass earlier this year 4+ years out of his prime and came points away from losing to one of the "worst number 2's" Roddick in a Wimbledon final when he hadn't been on form for years either.

So using Mats' logic, Hewitt and Roddick are stronger now than they were in their prime.
 

TJfederer16

Hall of Fame
wow what a dreadful person, fed has played in many eras, the tail end of the sampras and agassi era then his era with safin, roddick, hewitt, ferrero, nalbandian era now this era and he's still pretty much dominating this era with rafa, its just in feds prime he made everyone look a lot worse because he was so much better than everyone else, i would love to see fed destroy wilander. I swear wilander used to be roger's friend at one point as well, thats obviously gone, what a backstabber, the players must really not like him.
 

iamke55

Professional
Your assumption is flawed.

You're assuming that the players would have turned up in today's game and played as they did back then.

Take most players from the past, start them as a junior along with today's players when they were juniors, and we'd see many of the former players succeeding. Not all, but many.

Why would you assume this? Those guys made themselves famous by playing the tennis that worked in their era. There's nothing to suggest they would be any better than your average top 1000 player when it comes to playing outside of their era, the same way Sampras' domination on grass did not in any way imply that he could do just as well on clay.
 

Wilander Fan

Hall of Fame
Nothing in tennis disappointed me as much as Wilander folding like a cheap shirt after his great 88 season at the ripe old age of 24. Deep down, this was probably a big part of why I stopped playing and following the sport for 20 years roughly around the same time.

OTOH, Federer had already had the greatest career of all time by 2009 and, pushing 30, he is still retooling to stay on top.

Sorry Mats. Im your biggest fan but Federer has given more to the sport than you ever did.
 
Nothing in tennis disappointed me as much as Wilander folding like a cheap shirt after his great 88 season at the ripe old age of 24. Deep down, this was probably a big part of why I stopped playing and following the sport for 20 years roughly around the same time.

OTOH, Federer had already had the greatest career of all time by 2009 and, pushing 30, he is still retooling to stay on top.

Sorry Mats. Im your biggest fan but Federer has given more to the sport than you ever did.

:) Nicely said.
 

Fugazi

Professional
Mats has a serious flaw in his reasoning.

He would rather believe that the nos 2, 3, 4, 5 are all weaker than the equivalent historical averages, instead of believing that the no 1 is stronger than the historical average #1.

But statistically, what is more likely: 4 players weaker than the norm, or 1 player stronger than the norm?

There's actually a rule of thumb for this kind of thing - Mats should look up "Occam's razor"
That is very true!
 
Nothing in tennis disappointed me as much as Wilander folding like a cheap shirt after his great 88 season at the ripe old age of 24. Deep down, this was probably a big part of why I stopped playing and following the sport for 20 years roughly around the same time.

OTOH, Federer had already had the greatest career of all time by 2009 and, pushing 30, he is still retooling to stay on top.

Sorry Mats. Im your biggest fan but Federer has given more to the sport than you ever did.
It was shocking to watch Mats go from the highest of highs, to the lowest of lows. It largely reminded me of the quick fall of Bjorn Borg.

However, Mother Marjorie was more of an Edberg type 'o gal. He had the most developed thighs and tight butt....woo hoo!

Mother Marjorie A 2 the nn
Queen of Talk Tennis Warehouse
 
Yeah, because Fed was knocked out by Nadal in every slam this year.

You're right. Arseclown (Wilander or CF, you choose) seems to think a peak Fed would really lose to guys like Berdych and Soderling in slams, and play as poorly as he did vs Djoker at the USO. Anyone that simply watches tennis (not sure if Mats and Cesc do, they spend so much time admiring the famous arse instead) know that Fed of now is not the same guy of 04-07.
 

OrangeOne

Legend
Why would you assume this?

Because it's a rational and logical thing to assume.

Those guys made themselves famous by playing the tennis that worked in their era. There's nothing to suggest they would be any better than your average top 1000 player when it comes to playing outside of their era,

They grew up learning the tennis that was being played and taught at the time. Are you seriously suggesting someone with, say, Lendl's power and fitness wouldn't have adapted to more modern methods?

Look at John McEnroe now - he's succeeding on the senior's tour against much younger players - with a partly adapted game. If he was 12 starting now, he'd still have the hand-eye talent he has, but a more modern game.

A 1 in a billion player is a 1 in a billion player, and in my opinion any could learn the appropriate style of an era and play it successfully.

the same way Sampras' domination on grass did not in any way imply that he could do just as well on clay.

That is absolutely not the same.
 
What is the hardest era ever !?
…..
Should Federer have lost to Roddick, Hewitt and Murray in the majors to put this era as the hardest era or one of the hardest ..??

When Federer defeats the other players,, " the worst era helps him always no rivals " , and when the others defeat him " No,, he must dominate to deserve the G.O.A.T " ..

They will never stop attacking him
 

cc0509

Talk Tennis Guru
It was shocking to watch Mats go from the highest of highs, to the lowest of lows. It largely reminded me of the quick fall of Bjorn Borg.

However, Mother Marjorie was more of an Edberg type 'o gal. He had the most developed thighs and tight butt....woo hoo!

Mother Marjorie A 2 the nn
Queen of Talk Tennis Warehouse

Nope, Bjorn Borg was it for me! :)
 

Tshooter

G.O.A.T.
For reasons unknown to me he has some thing with Federer.

"But then again, there are a lot of us who had the focus that Nadal has who couldn’t last mentally"

On *** best day he never had the focus Nadal has.
 

namelessone

Legend
It's funny to see so many people ripping into Wilander :)

But people should cut him some slack, even if he is making some wild statements. You have to understand that:

1)he is a media guy. He needs to stay relevant and put some controversial statements out there

2)he is a nostalgic and genuinely believes that he played in a tougher era of tennis, thus feeling the need to put down the current one.

3)he may actually believe what he is saying. I've thought about this "weak era" stuff and I think Mats may be talking about Fed's main rivals at the time(especially off clay in 2006 and 2007), there is no other way to explain his words. Nadal gets put ahead as a rival but he was a non-entity outside of natural surfaces until 2008(at least at the GS's), when he reached his first AO and USO SF. Fed's main competition in the 2004-2007(widely considered prime) and even before that were basically guys like safin,roddick,hewitt and let's put davydenko since he is from that generation.

Safin was great(2 GS, 5 MS) but since his 2006 injuries he was never the same player. He ended up with a 10-2 h2h. He lost to Roger multiple times on all surfaces outside of carpet. His last win over Roger was in AO 2005. So he was a good quality rival but only before 2006 IMO.

Andy had a couple of good years and he remained a solid top 10 player till today but he was and remains Fed's pigeon. Even more embarrassing when you consider that they met on HC/grass most of the time. He beat Fed 2 times in 22 matches, his last win coming in 2008 in Miami in three sets. A good fighter, moreso than safin, but without safin's quality IMO. He was unlucky in his career, I've lost count of how many times Roger ousted him from QF or SF stage in GS's, not to mention beating him in all those WB finals. Rival only by name IMO. He was there to meet Roger but he did not have the game to beat him.

Hewitt also had his share of injuries and played his best tennis IMO before 2006. He holds a somewhat respectable 8-17 h2h but most of these wins came before Fed had won his first GS. He win in Halle 2010 was his first win over Fed since 2003 even though they met like 14 more times, usually on lleyton's fav surfaces. A rival does not get double bageled in a GS final IMO.

It's also interesting to see that many of these rivals(safin,hewitt,roddick), even though they were great on HC couldn't cut in big events, not in Roger's prime, well not for the full duration of it anyway.

Safin barely made finals after 2005(in any event). Hewitt basically has the same story, though he did snatch some minor titles in 2006 and 2007. Roddick is a different story, he actually does win 250 and 500 events quite regularly and even won a masters this year but almost always goes down to Fed in majors.

It's interesting to see GS performance outside of clay(weakest surface for both roger and his rivals) for these guys in fed's prime:

2004 AO: Fed beat Hewitt in QF and Marat in F. Roddick went down in QF to Safin. 2-0 to Fed so far.

2004 WB: Fed beat Hewitt in QF and Roddick in F, Marat went down in 1R to Tursunov. 4-0 for Fed.

2004 USO: Fed beat Hewitt in F, Roddick went down in QF(to jochansson) and Safin in Enqvist in 1 R. 5-0 to Roger.

Looking good so far, these guys are losing, but they are meeting Fed in later stages of GS events, 5 meetings overall(hewitt three times,roddick once, marat once).

2005 AO: Safin beat Fed in SF and Hewitt in F, while Hewitt beat Roddick in QF. 5-1 to Fed.

2005 WB: Safin loses in 3R to lopez, Fed beats hewitt in SF and Roddick in F. 7-1 to Fed.

2005 USO: Roddick loses in 1R to Muller, Safin DNE and Hewitt loses to Fed in SF. 8-1.

In 2005 the rivalry with these three is still pretty strong, they meet Fed 4 times overall(hewitt two times,roddick once,safin once).

2006 AO: Safin DNE, Hewitt exits in 2R to Chela,Roddick exits to baggie in 4R and Fed wins it. Still 8-1 for Fed.

2006 WB: Safin loses in 2R(gonzalez), Hewitt loses in QF to Baggie, and Roddick loses to Murray in 3R. Fed wins the event. Still 8-1 for Fed.

2006 USO: Roddick beat Hewitt in QF, Safin loses to Rochus in 3R, Fed wins in F over Roddick. 9-1 to Fed.

So for 2006 we have just one meeting between Fed and rivals, and Roddick takes that spot. Rivalry is on shaky ground

2007 AO: Roddick beat Safin in 3R, Hewitt lost to Gonzalez in 3R, and Fed beat Roddick in SF. 10-1 for Roger.

2007 WB: Fed beats Safin in 3R, Roddick loses in QF to Gasquet, and Hewitt loses in 4R to Djoker. 11-1 for Roger.

2007 USO: Hewitt loses in 2R(calleri), Safin loses in 2R(wawrinka) and Roddick loses to Fed in QF. 12-1 for Roger.

At the end of 2007, the rivalries is pretty much over(three meetings, two roddick, one safin) and Roddick is the only rival remaining for Fed off clay from the good old days.

Since 2006, Safin and Hewitt struggle to get to QF round in GS events while Fed is making GS finals regularly(4 in 2006, 4 in 2007). Oddly, Roddick, the best match-up for Fed, is still at it and meets him more often than not later on(even though he loses).

And this general rule 2006-2007 letdown rule applies to safin and hewitt in smaller events as well(in fed's prime of course). Hewitt meets Roger only two times in non GS events in 2006-2007. Safin has 0 meetings in non GS matches with Fed in 2006-2007. Meanwhile in 2006-2007, Roddick meets Roger two times in non-GS events, but each time being at the TMC, indicating that Roddick had a higher level of play those years that hewitt and safin.

Looking at the overall stats, I would say that rivalries pan out like this in Roger's prime: In 2004-2005, Roger had to deal with Safin and Hewitt in non clay GS events(but usually handled both of them), with Roddick tagging along. In 2006-2007, only Roddick remained, with the addition of Rafa Nadal, who was just starting to get good on grass.
 
Last edited:

vllaznia

Semi-Pro
^^^

I wrote this in the other thread but actually belong to this thread, if Federer era is weak how come he has already 199 matches againts top ten and Sampras has 195. This means in Federer's era top teners made it further to the draws than in the Sampras's era.
 

namelessone

Legend
^^^

I wrote this in the other thread but actually belong to this thread, if Federer era is weak how come he has already 199 matches againts top ten and Sampras has 195. This means in Federer's era top teners made it further to the draws than in the Sampras's era.

I believe this era is stronger OVERALL(as will the next era be when compared to this one) but I still don't see any rivals(as in guys that keep coming at you over and over again in big tourneys) in 2006-2007 for Fed off clay other than Roddick and we both know how well he matches up against Roger.
 

Raiden

Hall of Fame
^^^^ Don't even bother. How can you argue with this Swedish dopehead who basically claims that the premier number two player when Fed was number one, i.e. the now strong number one Nadal was also a weak number two? :lol:


Once a dopehead always a dopehead, end of story.
 

Raiden

Hall of Fame
Oh and I love how he selectively mentioned Hewitt and Roddick to minimize the era and at the same time pretended as if the era's poster boy Safin didn't exist :lol:
 
It's funny to see so many people ripping into Wilander :)

But people should cut him some slack, even if he is making some wild statements. You have to understand that:

1)he is a media guy. He needs to stay relevant and put some controversial statements out there

2)he is a nostalgic and genuinely believes that he played in a tougher era of tennis, thus feeling the need to put down the current one.

3)he may actually believe what he is saying. I've thought about this "weak era" stuff and I think Mats may be talking about Fed's main rivals at the time(especially off clay in 2006 and 2007), there is no other way to explain his words. Nadal gets put ahead as a rival but he was a non-entity outside of natural surfaces until 2008(at least at the GS's), when he reached his first AO and USO SF. Fed's main competition in the 2004-2007(widely considered prime) and even before that were basically guys like safin,roddick,hewitt and let's put davydenko since he is from that generation.

Safin was great(2 GS, 5 MS) but since his 2006 injuries he was never the same player. He ended up with a 10-2 h2h. He lost to Roger multiple times on all surfaces outside of carpet. His last win over Roger was in AO 2005. So he was a good quality rival but only before 2006 IMO.

Andy had a couple of good years and he remained a solid top 10 player till today but he was and remains Fed's pigeon. Even more embarrassing when you consider that they met on HC/grass most of the time. He beat Fed 2 times in 22 matches, his last win coming in 2008 in Miami in three sets. A good fighter, moreso than safin, but without safin's quality IMO. He was unlucky in his career, I've lost count of how many times Roger ousted him from QF or SF stage in GS's, not to mention beating him in all those WB finals. Rival only by name IMO. He was there to meet Roger but he did not have the game to beat him.

Hewitt also had his share of injuries and played his best tennis IMO before 2006. He holds a somewhat respectable 8-17 h2h but most of these wins came before Fed had won his first GS. He win in Halle 2010 was his first win over Fed since 2003 even though they met like 14 more times, usually on lleyton's fav surfaces. A rival does not get double bageled in a GS final IMO.

It's also interesting to see that many of these rivals(safin,hewitt,roddick), even though they were great on HC couldn't cut in big events, not in Roger's prime, well not for the full duration of it anyway.

Safin barely made finals after 2005(in any event). Hewitt basically has the same story, though he did snatch some minor titles in 2006 and 2007. Roddick is a different story, he actually does win 250 and 500 events quite regularly and even won a masters this year but almost always goes down to Fed in majors.

It's interesting to see GS performance outside of clay(weakest surface for both roger and his rivals) for these guys in fed's prime:

2004 AO: Fed beat Hewitt in QF and Marat in F. Roddick went down in QF to Safin. 2-0 to Fed so far.

2004 WB: Fed beat Hewitt in QF and Roddick in F, Marat went down in 1R to Tursunov. 4-0 for Fed.

2004 USO: Fed beat Hewitt in F, Roddick went down in QF(to jochansson) and Safin in Enqvist in 1 R. 5-0 to Roger.

Looking good so far, these guys are losing, but they are meeting Fed in later stages of GS events, 5 meetings overall(hewitt three times,roddick once, marat once).

2005 AO: Safin beat Fed in SF and Hewitt in F, while Hewitt beat Roddick in QF. 5-1 to Fed.

2005 WB: Safin loses in 3R to lopez, Fed beats hewitt in SF and Roddick in F. 7-1 to Fed.

2005 USO: Roddick loses in 1R to Muller, Safin DNE and Hewitt loses to Fed in SF. 8-1.

In 2005 the rivalry with these three is still pretty strong, they meet Fed 4 times overall(hewitt two times,roddick once,safin once).

2006 AO: Safin DNE, Hewitt exits in 2R to Chela,Roddick exits to baggie in 4R and Fed wins it. Still 8-1 for Fed.

2006 WB: Safin loses in 2R(gonzalez), Hewitt loses in QF to Baggie, and Roddick loses to Murray in 3R. Fed wins the event. Still 8-1 for Fed.

2006 USO: Roddick beat Hewitt in QF, Safin loses to Rochus in 3R, Fed wins in F over Roddick. 9-1 to Fed.

So for 2006 we have just one meeting between Fed and rivals, and Roddick takes that spot. Rivalry is on shaky ground

2007 AO: Roddick beat Safin in 3R, Hewitt lost to Gonzalez in 3R, and Fed beat Roddick in SF. 10-1 for Roger.

2007 WB: Fed beats Safin in 3R, Roddick loses in QF to Gasquet, and Hewitt loses in 4R to Djoker. 11-1 for Roger.

2007 USO: Hewitt loses in 2R(calleri), Safin loses in 2R(wawrinka) and Roddick loses to Fed in QF. 12-1 for Roger.

At the end of 2007, the rivalries is pretty much over(three meetings, two roddick, one safin) and Roddick is the only rival remaining for Fed off clay from the good old days.

Since 2006, Safin and Hewitt struggle to get to QF round in GS events while Fed is making GS finals regularly(4 in 2006, 4 in 2007). Oddly, Roddick, the best match-up for Fed, is still at it and meets him more often than not later on(even though he loses).

And this general rule 2006-2007 letdown rule applies to safin and hewitt in smaller events as well(in fed's prime of course). Hewitt meets Roger only two times in non GS events in 2006-2007. Safin has 0 meetings in non GS matches with Fed in 2006-2007. Meanwhile in 2006-2007, Roddick meets Roger two times in non-GS events, but each time being at the TMC, indicating that Roddick had a higher level of play those years that hewitt and safin.

Looking at the overall stats, I would say that rivalries pan out like this in Roger's prime: In 2004-2005, Roger had to deal with Safin and Hewitt in non clay GS events(but usually handled both of them), with Roddick tagging along. In 2006-2007, only Roddick remained, with the addition of Rafa Nadal, who was just starting to get good on grass.

You need to put Nalbandian and the rest in there to.

Nalbandian:
Beat Federer at the 2003 Australian and US Open.
Federer beat him at the 2004 Australian Open (QF), 2005 US Open (QF), 2006 French Open (SF)

Ferrero:
Ferrero beats Federer at the 2000 US Open
Federer beats Ferrero at the 2004 Australian Open, 2005/2007 Wimbledons

Coria:
Only met in non-Slam tournaments.

Davydenko:
Federer won all of their encounters. 2006 Australian Open, 2006 US Open, 2007 French Open, 2007 US Open, 2010 Australian Open

Agassi was still a tough cookie, he lost in his last 3 hard court Slams tournaments (not counting the 2006 US Open) to Federer, 2004 UO, 2005 AO, 2005 UO.
 
Last edited:

Dgpsx7

Professional
I know he was a great tennis player but I don't understand why someone who constantly changes their tune and is wrong so much of the time can have any credibility. I remember him saying Roger wouldn't be able to win the 2010 AO.

It is pretty easy to see that he has a fair amount envy because Federer has dwarfed his achievements and Nadal will if he hasn't already. It bothers him that before they came along he was one of the first people you would think of and now he is pretty irrelevant.

The truth is that he must be really bitter because even if someone as good as he was thought those things they would never say it in public. If Federer and Nadal were not on the scene they would be a constant war between everybody else for Grand Slams and then the era would no longer be considered weak. Federer and Nadal just happen to be that good.
 
Last edited:
I believe this era is stronger OVERALL(as will the next era be when compared to this one) but I still don't see any rivals(as in guys that keep coming at you over and over again in big tourneys) in 2006-2007 for Fed off clay other than Roddick and we both know how well he matches up against Roger.

You again are making the flawed case that Roger should have lost more to these guys to make them look good and look like true 'rivals'.
 

Pneumated1

Hall of Fame
I know that Agassi was a little older when prime Federer came around, but I remember him saying that Federer was by far the best he had ever faced.

And Agassi faced some pretty tough competition in his day, wouldn't you agree? Maybe he's changed his tune since then, but I think his opinion speaks volumes.
 

hoodjem

G.O.A.T.
When IT asked Mats Wilander if Federer was the best player of all time, the former No. 1 said, “Roger is the best, on paper, of all time, but you have to say that the era when he played was the worst of all time. That’s why he was winning so much. Suddenly, Nadal and these guys came up and they’re better than him. But his era had the worst Nos. 2, 3, 4, 5 we’ve had – the Nalbandians, Roddicks, Hewitts. That’s one of the reasons why Roger dominated so much. He’s not worse (now). He’s still fighting hard and he’s not winning. That’s the only way I see it. How can you be that dominant in this day and age? It’s impossible. But that doesn’t matter. It’s all statistics. So Roger is the greatest.” As for Nadal, Wilander said, “If he physically stays healthy, he has a real good chance of breaking the [all-time Slam] record. Staying healthy is part of greatness. You have to say that Roger is the greatest because he’s been healthy. He’s gone through bad draws, tough matches. He’s had good luck, he’s had no health issues. That’s why you have to say he’s the greatest.” When asked if Nadal will retain his focus and inner fire, Wilander replied, “I think he can. But then again, there are a lot of us who had the focus that Nadal has who couldn’t last mentally. Bjorn Borg, for example, or me. Nadal is more like Jimmy Connors, who lasted forever. Nobody was stopping him.

I guess it depends on one's bias about the current field or era. If you read this believing that the current field is very strong, then this looks like trolling. In other words, if you don't like the message, attack the messenger.

If you believe that the current spate of players is generally weak (below 1 and 2), then parts of it makes a lot of sense.

One thing that I regard as indisputable is that Wilander has forgotten more about tennis than 99.8% of the posters on here will ever know. For the first half of his adult life he ate, slept, breathed, and thought about nothing other than tennis.

I personally think that Hewitt, Nalbandian, Roddick, Djokovic are mediocre pros in the total history of the game, and that any slams they won are because of a paucity of great challengers. Also, that it is virtually impossible to separate a given player from his era or competitive field, because all wins or losses are against that field.
 
Last edited:

egn

Hall of Fame
This is where Mats Wilander disgusts me, forget trashing Fed, but trashing Roddick, Nalbandian and Hewitt...what grounds does he have to say things like these are the worst players to achieve such rankings. Forget the whole topic of conversation, but I'm sorry no player has a right to bash another player. Wilander should be reminded that most could easily consider a handful of his early French Opens lucky due to a certain player just giving up on the sport. It's a bit disgusting to here him bash other players. Sure Roddick or Hewitt might not have 4-6 majors, but hell the two worked hard their whole careers.
 

egn

Hall of Fame
I personally think that Hewitt, Nalbandian, Roddick, Djokovic are mediocre pros in the total history of the game, and that any slams they won are because of a paucity of great challengers. Also, that it is virtually impossible to separate a given player from his era or competitive field, because all wins or losses are against that field.

So between 2007 US Open and 2008 French Open the competitive field declined greatly then suddenly picked back up?
 

li0scc0

Hall of Fame
Mats has a serious flaw in his reasoning.

He would rather believe that the nos 2, 3, 4, 5 are all weaker than the equivalent historical averages, instead of believing that the no 1 is stronger than the historical average #1.

But statistically, what is more likely: 4 players weaker than the norm, or 1 player stronger than the norm?

There's actually a rule of thumb for this kind of thing - Mats should look up "Occam's razor"

I really enjoyed your use of logic, and yes, your reasoning is correct. Well done! (sorry, I have taught college logic)
 
Mats Wilander has sunk to the deepest pits of hell. He is now openly calling Roddick, Hewitt, and Nalbandian the worst top 5 players of all time... wow. He is a moron.
 

li0scc0

Hall of Fame
I know that Agassi was a little older when prime Federer came around, but I remember him saying that Federer was by far the best he had ever faced.

And Agassi faced some pretty tough competition in his day, wouldn't you agree? Maybe he's changed his tune since then, but I think his opinion speaks volumes.

I agree COMPLETELY. The anti-Fed or anti-Agassi person will state that Agassi is saying that just to spite Sampras. But Agassi is serious, Federer is the greatest player he played against, by far. And Agassi played against a lot of greats.
 
I guess it depends on one's bias about the current field or era. If you read this believing that the current field is very strong, then this looks like trolling. In other words, if you don't like the message, attack the messenger.

If you believe that the current spate of players is generally weak (below 1 and 2), then parts of it makes a lot of sense.

One thing that I regard as indisputable is that Wilander has forgotten more about tennis than 99.8% of the posters on here will ever know. For the first half of his adult life he ate, slept, breathed, and thought about nothing other than tennis.

I personally think that Hewitt, Nalbandian, Roddick, Djokovic are mediocre pros in the total history of the game, and that any slams they won are because of a paucity of great challengers. Also, that it is virtually impossible to separate a given player from his era or competitive field, because all wins or losses are against that field.

Mats never faced Roddick, Nalbandian, Hewitt, so there he is in the same boat with most (if not all) of us. So in that case, how can he say how strong these players are if he never faced them?

The 'forgotten more about tennis' argument is nonsense. McEnroe knows plenty about tennis yet he still spouts out gems like calling Donald Young the future of tennis some years back.

Again, you are asserting that it would have been better for Federer to lose more to these guys, to make them look good, rather than dominate like he did.

To me there's no such thing as a weak era. Relatively speaking, I'd say today's game has less depth at the top than the 80s, but more at the top than the 90s based on Nadal and Federer alone. Regardless of who's on the other side of the net, the onus is still on Fed to go out and win, which he did at a record setting pace.
 

Xemi666

Professional
One thing that I regard as indisputable is that Wilander has forgotten more about tennis than 99.8% of the posters on here will ever know. For the first half of his adult life he ate, slept, breathed, and thought about nothing other than tennis.

McEnroe knows more about tennis than 99.9% of the posters on here and he said Nadal is a better volleyer than Fed, so it must be true :)

What happened to Wilander's tennis knowledge when he predicted Soderling to beat Nadal at the FO this year? :lol:

If we were talking about how to hit the ball, or footwork sure, his opinion would hold more wait than anyone's in here, but him being a tennis player means nothing to his knowledge of this being a weak era or not.

Oh, and Occam's razor as other poster have said, look it up.
 

Gaudio2004

Semi-Pro
Wilander is a reasonably intelligent person, his predictions are pretty good and he actually tipped Soderling to reach the semi finals / final of RG 2009 before it even started, I believe - he can be biased and he's not Federer's biggest fan, but Wilander is a very good tennis commentator.

Although I disagree with Wilander - Federer had plenty of tough players, what maybe Wilander doesn't understand is that at Federer's peak, he was unplayable - regardless of Nadal, Sampras, Lendl, Borg, etc, if you put them against Federer on a hard-court or a grass-court in 2005-2006, each of them would have lost, again and again and again. He was that good. Agassi once said that Federer was the greatest heaver - and Agassi faced a lot of good players in his generation.
 

fed_rulz

Hall of Fame
Wilander is a reasonably intelligent person, his predictions are pretty good and he actually tipped Soderling to reach the semi finals / final of RG 2009 before it even started, I believe - he can be biased and he's not Federer's biggest fan, but Wilander is a very good tennis commentator.

Although I disagree with Wilander - Federer had plenty of tough players, what maybe Wilander doesn't understand is that at Federer's peak, he was unplayable - regardless of Nadal, Sampras, Lendl, Borg, etc, if you put them against Federer on a hard-court or a grass-court in 2005-2006, each of them would have lost, again and again and again. He was that good.

my friend, get ready to be torched and flamed by the army of ****s (especially Pete-****s, b/c of your grass court comment) :).. i agree with you though.
 

hoodjem

G.O.A.T.
So between 2007 US Open and 2008 French Open the competitive field declined greatly then suddenly picked back up?
Djoker got lucky: Fed was ill, and Tsonga took care of Nadal with an inspired S&V performance (that he will probably never again duplicate).

Until these two retire, I doubt that Djoker will win another slam (unless he gets lucky again); same for Nalby or Hewitt or Roddick or Murray.
 

Mick

Legend
talking about federer playing in the worst era, i don't even know if wilander at his prime could beat davydenko. if he could not, then there goes his opinion.
 
Top