Max squat and deadlift

Discussion in 'Health & Fitness' started by richardc-s, Jul 11, 2018.

  1. richardc-s

    richardc-s Semi-Pro

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    Just thought I would put up videos of my recent max squat and deadlift...





    I think I had more in me on both lifts ;)

    In my efforts to get stronger I've certainly gone past the point of usefulness for tennis.

    I'm now 252lbs / 114kg (5ft11) and the main thing I notice when playing tennis is how slow I have become. I have also lost flexibility in my shoulders, which I notice when serving. When I weighed less I was certainly quicker on court and had a more lively serving arm.

    Now I have the dilemma, do I continue to eat big and keep growing, or begin to cut back down and get to a more 'functional' size? I have been eating around 4500 calories a day whilst bulking and thoroughly enjoy it, and I would love to have a bigger squat and deadlift, however I do miss having abs and fitting my legs into trousers!

    Whats your opinion? What would you do in my position?
     
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  2. Nostradamus

    Nostradamus Talk Tennis Guru

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    that is too much weight and muscles. you will lose flexibility and it it will hinder your tennis shot making
     
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  3. Ramon

    Ramon Hall of Fame

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    That's awesome! I like your form on both lifts. Have you tried moving the bar lower on the squat? The low bar squat will let you move more weight than the high bar squat. You rest the bar on the ridge at the back of your delts instead of on top of your traps. How much can you deadlift without straps?

    I face the same dilemma, although I'm not as big as you. I'm going to keep myself in the 83 kg class. I like using the Beyond 5/3/1 program. I'm lifting 4-5 times a week and playing tennis less than once a week now, so my focus has been more on powerlifting. That's ok with me. I might have to choose lower level tennis opponents, but there are plenty of them. Lifting gets me in better shape.
     
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  4. T1000

    T1000 Legend

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    Nice lifts op. I would guess you probably have another 15-20lbs on each.

    You could always cut to 10-12% and then bulk if you miss strength training. It’ll be easier to gain muscle when you’re leaner and more muscle= more strength potential.

    Have you tried doing dislocations with a resistance band and do you do any rotator cuff work? Both should loosen your shoulder up and they can be incorporated into your routine as a warm up
     
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  5. richardc-s

    richardc-s Semi-Pro

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    Thanks. I have tried low bar a few times but it just didn't feel right. I also found it a bit painful on my wrists, probably because of lack of flexibility.

    Haven't done a max deadlift without straps, but I have pulled 205kg / 452lbs with just chalk before. My grip isn't great so I doubt I could pull much more than that without straps.

    As much as I would like to be 'tennis fit', I enjoy weight lifting too much to tone it right down. I also weight train about 4-5 days a week and only play tennis around 3 hours a week. Tennis is fun but I'd rather be a musclebound beast :cool:

    Thanks, I agree there's a few more lbs in those lifts.

    I agree, if I can cut down to 10-12% body fat and keep a fair bit of my muscle mass I should be in a good spot to bulk up again if needed.

    I used to do dislocations a lot when I did Crossfit, however those days are long behind me. I really do need to do some mobility work on my upper body. I do plenty of lower body mobility work, stretching and foam rolling, but the upper body is neglected.
     
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  6. r2473

    r2473 G.O.A.T.

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    How much are you squatting and deadlifting these days if you don't mind my asking?
     
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  7. Ramon

    Ramon Hall of Fame

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    One type of mobility work you might actually enjoy is overhead squats. Then once you can do those, you can try Olympic lifts. Maybe you did those when you did Crossfit. If you have trouble doing them, I suggest putting plates under your heels and then gradually reduce the amount of heel lift.
     
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  8. richardc-s

    richardc-s Semi-Pro

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    Not a fan of overhead squats! Did them a lot in Crossfit, I maxed out at 110kg / 242lbs as my shoulder stability was no good. The squat portion was no issue, I just couldn't stabilise the load overhead.

    I had a similar problem with front squats, my lack of flexibility meant I couldn't get a decent front rack position. This also made cleans hard due to the front rack position. And the snatch... well my technique was just awful lol.
     
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  9. T1000

    T1000 Legend

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    The last year has been a waste for squats and deadlifts but at least it helped my terrible bench lol. I have FAI in both hips and tore my labrum in my right last august. I’ve tried PT three times with this current attempt being the most successful. Tonight is my last session so if all goes well I will be squatting for the first time in just under a year next Wednesday.


    I have been deadlifting pain free since March. I had a little stretch from thanksgiving to the middle of January where I was deadlifting but hit a set back. I pulled 625 (25lbs under my all time best) very easy last Saturday so I’m just about back to where I was and that’s with only doing leg extensions and leg curls for legs.
     
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  10. richardc-s

    richardc-s Semi-Pro

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    Wow that's a big boys deadlift! What was your max squat before the injuries?
     
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  11. r2473

    r2473 G.O.A.T.

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    How much do you weigh now?
     
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  12. T1000

    T1000 Legend

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    Thanks. 445 in a belt and 525 in a belt and knee wraps

    225
     
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  13. richardc-s

    richardc-s Semi-Pro

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    Nice :cool:
     
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  14. r2473

    r2473 G.O.A.T.

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    Be careful not to do anything to yourself that you’ll regret later in life
     
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  15. Raul_SJ

    Raul_SJ Hall of Fame

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    1. What is your pant waist size?

    2. It's not possible to have a six-pack abs and still lift heavy?
     
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  16. ByeByePoly

    ByeByePoly Legend

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    Pick one ... tennis or whatever "that" :eek: is.

    Said by a wimpy tennis player that can barely lift his racquet.
     
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  17. richardc-s

    richardc-s Semi-Pro

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    For suit trousers I have to get a 40 waist to get my legs into them! Obviously they are super baggy in the waist, I imagine my waist would sit nicely in a 36. Luckily I work from home so can wear shorts most of the time.

    Of course you can lift heavy and be lean, I'm just worried about the inevitable drop in strength when I cut the weight. Its not the end of the world though, I have decided I will cut down to around the 225lbs range.

    I'm quite happy to be immobile on the court but hit the ball like a rocket if/when I ever get near it :p
     
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  18. Raul_SJ

    Raul_SJ Hall of Fame

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    I never lifted but I was once 40 pounds overweight -- obese at 220 lbs. I don't know if I was imagining it but I could lift things (furniture, suitcases) much easier when I
    was heavier. I am happy that I'm at healthy weight but I want that fat strength back. :(
     
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  19. richardc-s

    richardc-s Semi-Pro

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    Yea I think to a certain degree weight does move weight. If you're completly untrained then starting just a bit of strength training will make your strength level shoot up very quickly. You will likely be stronger than your former fat self in no time at all :D
     
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  20. onehandbh

    onehandbh Legend

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    Impressive lifts!

    Your lifts are more than 2x mine. My last most recent squat & deadlifts were only: 225x7 and 165x8.
     
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  21. Ramon

    Ramon Hall of Fame

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    That's a lot of reps. It's good to do a lot of reps for hypertrophy, but if you want to test your max you need to lower your reps. You might try doing this to test your max. It should be the first lift you do in the gym: 95x5, 135x5, 185x3, 225x3, and after that just go up in 20 pound increments 1 rep at a time. This wouldn't be your regular routine, just maybe once a month to test your max.
     
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  22. richardc-s

    richardc-s Semi-Pro

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    Thank you.

    Like Ramon said, a 1RM is a completly different beast to reps. 1RM is of no use for building strength, to do that you want to do multiple reps. I normally squat for 4 sets of 8 and deadlift around 4 sets of 6.

    Today for instance I trained legs and did the following...

    - Squats 4x8 @ 308lbs
    - Walking lunges 3x10 (per leg) with a 55lb dumbbell in each hand.
    - Hamstring curl machine 5x15 .
    - Quad curl machine 5x15.
    - Calf raises 4x15.

    I can't remember the weights I used for the last 3 exercises but each set was to near failure.

    I like training with the 'big lift' first to focus on strength gain, and then follow it up with other excersises where I ramp up the reps and work on hypertrophy. I do the same with all body parts, start with a big compound lift and then finish with more isolated exercises.
     
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  23. onehandbh

    onehandbh Legend

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    I haven’t tried a 1 rep max on the squat. A little scared.

    Since I’ve only had time to go to the gym once a week I actually do a full body routine when I go. It has included squats, bench press , pullups, walking lunges, deadlift, dips, shoulder press, rotator cuff

    leg portion of my last workout was:
    squats: 135x10, 209x8, 226.6x7, 209x10
    walking lunges holding 66 lbs dumbell in each hand for 10 reps
    deadlift: 165x0
     
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  24. r2473

    r2473 G.O.A.T.

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    But you can do a proper pistol squat while balancing a tea cup on your head. I bet nobody else can do that
     
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  25. Ramon

    Ramon Hall of Fame

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    Your squat is 36% higher than your deadlift? Are you all torso or something? Either that or you're holding back on your deadlift.
     
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  26. richardc-s

    richardc-s Semi-Pro

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    Pistol squats are very humbling, very few people can do them. I found I wasn't flexible enough to get right down to the floor, so I had to really work on my lower body flexibility before I could do one.

    Now I have the flexibility and strength to do them comfortably I sometimes add them in at the end of a leg workout to really finish me off!
     
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  27. Daniel-San

    Daniel-San Professional

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    I could probably do it but I don’t want to burn myself
     
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  28. onehandbh

    onehandbh Legend

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    I only recently added deadlifts. I do them at the end of my workout after everything else, but not sure I could do all that much more.

    I am a lanky 6’ 165 lbs.
     
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  29. onehandbh

    onehandbh Legend

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    Ha! I had forgotten about that.

    I’ll try to think of another interesting variation of the pistol squat
     
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  30. Daniel-San

    Daniel-San Professional

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    While balancing two teacups
     
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  31. Ramon

    Ramon Hall of Fame

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    Lanky means you probably have long limbs. That’s actually the ideal build for conventional deadlifts. Your long arms will allow you to start with a fairly upright back and you won’t have to lift it as high as someone with short arms. I’m guessing you’re holding back. With max effort it should easily be at least 50 pounds higher than your squat. I’m a lanky 5’10” 185 lbs. My squat is somewhere around 350-360 and my deadlift is about 80 pounds higher.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  32. RVAtennisaddict

    RVAtennisaddict Semi-Pro

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    Nice lifts. I never really did dead lifts but my pb was squat 615x3 and bench 345x3. I was playing football in college. Funny enough I way the same but am not nearly as strong- don’t lift. Really think tennis is better focus from a lifetime sport and general health compared to powerlifting.

    Glory days. I miss the big lifts though. Max rep 225 was 43 on bench. And loved using 125 dumb bells for power sets bench, incline, military.

    But hated having to buy huge pants to fit the thighs and tearing the seems of short sleeves woth normal wear.
     
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  33. richardc-s

    richardc-s Semi-Pro

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    Wow that was a huge squat! You probably could have done a big deadlift without much practice, you clearly weren't lacking in strength.

    I wish I could bench press so I could find out my total for the 3 big lifts, but I get pain in my wrist whenever I press a barbell. I broke my wrist when i was younger and I think that is the problem. Now I just do presses with dumbbells, it's completly pain free.

    I agree tennis is a good way to stay fit for general life, however everyone can benefit from a bit of weightlifting. I personally think as long as you aren't carrying too much body fat then the more muscle you have the better.

    When you have a muscular frame buying clothes becomes a nightmare!
     
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  34. Ramon

    Ramon Hall of Fame

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    Maybe you should try the bulldog grip for the bench press. It will put less stress on your wrists. Here's a video of it. You might want to skip to about the 8 minute mark where he starts talking about the grip.



    Another thing you can use is wrist wraps, which BTW are legal in powerlifting competition. The stiffest wraps on the market are the Slingshot wraps.

    https://markbellslingshot.com/collections/straps-wraps-support/products/strong-wrist-wraps
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2018
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  35. T1000

    T1000 Legend

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  36. Tennisanity

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    Very impressive. I get back and knee pain after squatting.
     
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  37. Bluefan75

    Bluefan75 Professional

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    Your form is wrong then. Drop weight, and get your form straight.
     
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  38. Ramon

    Ramon Hall of Fame

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    I agree. On top of that, I'd say do it with no support equipment (no belt, no knee wraps, etc.). Support equipment could hide the side effects of bad form. You should learn how to squat correctly so you have no pain doing a truly raw squat. Once you get your form straight, you can add weight and eventually add equipment so you can do even more weight.
     
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  39. onehandbh

    onehandbh Legend

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    This time I tried deadlifts before doing the walking lunges.
    Did 200 for 2 reps. It was pretty difficult to hold onto the bar.
    Also did walking lunges with 71.5 dumbells in each hand. I could barely hold onto the dumbells by the time I got to the 14th lunge. ( 7 in each leg)
     
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  40. Tennisanity

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    Yes I know, but I can't get the form right due to lack of flexibility in many parts. I have stretched and stretched, but some things just don't stretch anymore, like hamstrings.
     
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  41. richardc-s

    richardc-s Semi-Pro

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    I've tried that grip as well as wrist straps but still get the pain. I think it's a problem with my wrist which I only feel when it's pronated, it doesn't hurt at all when pressing dumbbells as I don't have to pronate as much.

    Yea that'll definitely be a form thing. Film yourself squatting and you'll probably find that your knees are tracking forward past your feet. That or your knees are caving in.

    When I first squatted I did those things and it gave me knee pain. I had to (and still have to) remind myself to push my knees out and make sure my knees stay level with my feet.

    In other news I have been cutting down for the last week and I'm now sitting at 243lbs... I feel more nimble already :p
     
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  42. Ramon

    Ramon Hall of Fame

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    If holding onto the bar on the deadlift is the problem, are you using a double overhand grip? Once your grip strength becomes a limiting factor, you can switch to either a mixed grip (one hand undergrip the other hand overgrip) or a hook grip (fingers around the thumbs).
     
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  43. richardc-s

    richardc-s Semi-Pro

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    A mixed grip and a bit of chalk will do wonders to how much you can hold :)
     
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  44. onehandbh

    onehandbh Legend

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    I'll try the mixed grip next time. See if it helps.
     
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  45. Nostradamus

    Nostradamus Talk Tennis Guru

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  46. richardc-s

    richardc-s Semi-Pro

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    Dumbbell squats are good. Also look at goblet squats, I personally prefer them to dumbbell squats. You don't need a kettlebell to do them, just use the dumbbell you have.
     
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  47. Nostradamus

    Nostradamus Talk Tennis Guru

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    it looks a lot harder than dumbbell squats, but I will try it and see which one works better. I was going to buy the 30 lbs dumbbells like the one in video above. how many pounds of dumbbell do you use ?
     
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  48. Ramon

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    I think you'd like the goblet squat better because it's more for the legs. You can start with 30 pounds and go up from there. The dumbbell squat in that video is similar to the hexbar deadlift, which works the lower back as much as it does the legs.
     
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  49. richardc-s

    richardc-s Semi-Pro

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    To be honest I nearly always squat with a barbell, but If I ever squat with dumbbells I do it like a goblet squat, normally using around 65lbs. I find it a good finisher after heavy barbell squats, doing something like 3 sets of 15.

    When squatting holding dumbbells by my side I find I can't squat to full depth as the dumbbells end up touching the ground. Like Ramon said as well it is very similar to a hex bar deadlift.
     
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  50. Nostradamus

    Nostradamus Talk Tennis Guru

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    I want to just buy one set of dumbbells. 30 lbs or something else. which weight should I buy ? I already have 5 lbs but I am only using that for bicep workout. I am also buying 2.5 lbs dumbbells for Serve motion shadowing workout.
     
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