Maybe Mixed Isn't So Bad . . .
- Thread starter Cindysphinx
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dcdoorknob
Hall of Fame
There aren't many 2.5 guys anymore, and I'm not sure how the 3.0 women would play 6.5 if the 3.0 had the be the higher rated player? They could play with a 3.0 guy I guess, assuming equal ratings would be acceptable in this hypothetical league, but they'd be in line to lose a bunch to true 6.5 teams unless one or both of them were sandbagging.
FWIW, I do like the idea in general though. As a 3.5 guy I think a mixed league with 3.5 guys and 4.0 women would be fun and competitive. I am in a mixed gender doubles ladder, and basically it ends up most weeks that I share a court with other 3.5 guys or 4.0 women, and it's one of my favorite tennis 'leagues' I've been a part of with consistently interesting, competitive play.
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beernutz
Hall of Fame
We have never had a 5.5 league here in the 8 years I've played USTA. If the woman had to be the higher player, how could they play as a 3.0 on a 6.5 team?
Sorry, I was thinking for the 3.5 women would play 6.5 and the 3.0 women were playing 5.5. That was indeed my bad. Yes, that would be tough for 3.0 women to play in a mixed team if they had to be the higher rated.
In Norcal, so always lots of 2.5's around... didn't really think about other parts of the country where that isn't the case.
In Norcal, so always lots of 2.5's around... didn't really think about other parts of the country where that isn't the case.
beernutz
Hall of Fame
No worries, we've just not had any 2.5 leagues here and in fact the 3.0 men's leagues had such low numbers in 2012 that our area didn't have enough players to have that level last fall at all.
storypeddler
Semi-Pro
I love competitive mixed doubles. Sure, it makes a difference whether you are reasonably close to your opponents' level of play, but I have found that there are always ways to work at neutralizing an opponent's strengths, and in doubles it is more about how you play as a team than it is about your individual skills. No, you can't always win, but you can certainly use your heads and strategize a way to make the match more competitive, even if you are outmatched. That's one of the things I enjoy most about it.
penpal
Semi-Pro
Back in the day here in the Intermountain section the mixed leagues were labeled 3.0, 3.5, 4.0, etc... and they worked exactly like the men's and women's leagues in that you were rated at the level or below for the league in which you played. Those leagues were great.
I agree that the 4.5M/3.5W and 4.0M/3.0W has taken some of the joy out of competitive mixed play.
My wife and I took up the sport precisely because it allowed us to play together, and we still love playing mixed together today. I think like any doubles, the key is finding a partner you enjoy playing with and whose playing style suits yours.
I have noticed one oddity in mixed though that I don't see in men's doubles, and that is that sometimes it seems the woman targets the opposing male player rather than playing to the weaker female player. My wife does this occasionally and I've noticed it from women across the net too. I think in my wife's case it has something to do with testing her skill against the male opponent, and when she beats him it's a bit of a thrill. I'm sure that's also likely the case for some other women, though I also think some female opponents just become so focused on me that they tend to hit to me rather than away from me.
This rarely happens in men's doubles. If one guy is stronger, he'll be avoided as much as possible.
I agree that the 4.5M/3.5W and 4.0M/3.0W has taken some of the joy out of competitive mixed play.
My wife and I took up the sport precisely because it allowed us to play together, and we still love playing mixed together today. I think like any doubles, the key is finding a partner you enjoy playing with and whose playing style suits yours.
I have noticed one oddity in mixed though that I don't see in men's doubles, and that is that sometimes it seems the woman targets the opposing male player rather than playing to the weaker female player. My wife does this occasionally and I've noticed it from women across the net too. I think in my wife's case it has something to do with testing her skill against the male opponent, and when she beats him it's a bit of a thrill. I'm sure that's also likely the case for some other women, though I also think some female opponents just become so focused on me that they tend to hit to me rather than away from me.
This rarely happens in men's doubles. If one guy is stronger, he'll be avoided as much as possible.
Cindysphinx
G.O.A.T.
It is not easy to avoid the female player in mixed.
She will spend more time at net, and the women often play very close to net. Say I am receiving the 4.0 guy's serve in the deuce court. How am I supposed to take that serve and re-direct it at the woman well enough that she won't have an easy volley put-away?
Also, remember that doubles players have patterns of play that they prefer. Returning crosscourt is the bread and butter, as is hitting to the player who is deeper in the court and driving the ball up the middle. These strategies won't steer the ball to the opposing female. Then what?
She will spend more time at net, and the women often play very close to net. Say I am receiving the 4.0 guy's serve in the deuce court. How am I supposed to take that serve and re-direct it at the woman well enough that she won't have an easy volley put-away?
Also, remember that doubles players have patterns of play that they prefer. Returning crosscourt is the bread and butter, as is hitting to the player who is deeper in the court and driving the ball up the middle. These strategies won't steer the ball to the opposing female. Then what?
Fuji
Legend
Are 4.0 men's serve that different to return from a lady's 4.0, from a lady's perspective? Hitting a cross court ball cleanly off a serve should be apart of ones toolbox, especially in doubles right?
As for hitting at the lady, in my very small amount of mixed I was told that you should be going for percentages, not the weaker player on return. If I'm playing someone with a half decent serve, take the net person out of the equation and return it deep cross court. It gives my team enough time to help move in, and if my partner has the chance to poach, it normally happens.
-Fuji
JoelDali
Bionic Poster
I aim for the fem's spider veins, this is where they struggle with low and powerful balls. Especially older 3.0 ladies that play with heavy Babolats trying to act all Clijsterish. They can't scoop up my heavy balls that well and get flustered and impatient and eventually quit the sport altogether.
Fuji
Legend
Cindysphinx
G.O.A.T.
Fuji, IME there is a lot of difference between the serve of a 4.0 guy and a 4.0 gal.
In ladies, I hardly ever face a server who has a serve I will struggle to return. Most of the first serves are flat and come nice and straight. Most of the second serves are a modified push -- just a slower version of the first -- or are puffballs.
The 4.0 guys will have more pace on their flat serve. But the biggest difference is that the 4.0 guys can use spin to confound or to yank you off the court. So if I am receiving on the ad court and the guy hits a slice up the middle, there's just no way I can get enough on the return to go at the woman or down her alley. Gotta send it right back to the guy server.
In ladies, I hardly ever face a server who has a serve I will struggle to return. Most of the first serves are flat and come nice and straight. Most of the second serves are a modified push -- just a slower version of the first -- or are puffballs.
The 4.0 guys will have more pace on their flat serve. But the biggest difference is that the 4.0 guys can use spin to confound or to yank you off the court. So if I am receiving on the ad court and the guy hits a slice up the middle, there's just no way I can get enough on the return to go at the woman or down her alley. Gotta send it right back to the guy server.
dizzlmcwizzl
Hall of Fame
Yea perhaps therw is no greater stroke that differs between men and women than the serve. There are just so few women that hit serves with spin. I suspect in ladies play the woman with a kicker is special indeed.
I have consistently found the best serve to a woman is a slicing serve moving out and away from her forehand. Never give them flat unless you are sending a message. Often you will see it blocked back over the net man.
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