McEnroe discusses rivalries with Jimbo, Borg and Lendl

thks for posting those borg#1! fantastic hilarious videos! always funny to see Connors go into that finger pointing routine with Mac who always reacts. Classic stuff. greatest tennis rivalry ever. imagine the chaos if Nadal and Federer did stuff like that crossing the net and finger pointing in each others face. ESPN would be showing that on sportscenter and tennis TV ratings would probably double or triple.

Tenis is terrific the way it is today but if today's players could come up with some drama and hijinks like Mac and Jimbo did, tennis would be so much better and more popular
 
Riosfan said:
thks for posting those borg#1! fantastic hilarious videos! always funny to see Connors go into that finger pointing routine with Mac who always reacts. Classic stuff. greatest tennis rivalry ever. imagine the chaos if Nadal and Federer did stuff like that crossing the net and finger pointing in each others face. ESPN would be showing that on sportscenter and tennis TV ratings would probably double or triple.

Tenis is terrific the way it is today but if today's players could come up with some drama and hijinks like Mac and Jimbo did, tennis would be so much better and more popular
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Isn't that funny?? Yes, Connors often played to the crowd and used "gamesmanship", but he and McEnroe really weren't "making that stuff up". Things OFTEN got heated between them.

See some great hard court tennis between them in 1979:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5UAIbr0yUc

Things got better between them later. See them practicing in the early 1990's together.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qe9Mc_ZbuU
 
That was then, this is now

Riosfan said:
thks for posting those borg#1! fantastic hilarious videos! always funny to see Connors go into that finger pointing routine with Mac who always reacts. Classic stuff. greatest tennis rivalry ever. imagine the chaos if Nadal and Federer did stuff like that crossing the net and finger pointing in each others face. ESPN would be showing that on sportscenter and tennis TV ratings would probably double or triple.

Tenis is terrific the way it is today but if today's players could come up with some drama and hijinks like Mac and Jimbo did, tennis would be so much better and more popular
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It is nice to look back and have a laugh at JC and Mac but to be honest it wasn't always in the best of taste and they both used to bend the rules...Mac himself has admitted he didn't have himself under control and Jimmy loved to control everybody, crowd, spectators, umpire..when he couldn't then, often when he had to play just tennis and Mac or Borg had a good day..then he took some losses.
Don't misunderstand me ..it was funny to watch but Fed and Rafa doing that wouldn't pass to their personalities. You have guys like Tsonga and extreme entertainers like Djoker who like "godding it up" a bit and they are often criticized as being arrogant or show-offs. A pity because they are natural entertainers. The ratings were stronger then because other sports were not as strongly telecast. Now it is saturated, you can watch nearly every challenger in internet, it will never be the same.
But it is nice to look back. Thanks for posting.
 
Fun to read, thanks for posting. Makes me wish I remembered the Wimbledon 4th set tiebreaker in 1980--don't tell McEnroe I don't, don't want to make him mad. Anybody up for a quick insight?
 
^^The 4th set tiebreaker was a....classic. It seemed like the WHOLE WORLD was watching it together. It was Tennis Drama that sent people into a frenzy, much like the 2008 Wimbledon 4th and 5th sets between Federer and Nadal. Even McEnroe and Borg started feeling the pressure. Somehow, Borg recovered to play a stellar 5th set and prevail 8-6 in the fifth.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmfKbggEt5s

Borg needed 8 match points to ultimately prevail. He wins it on a backhand pass in the fifth set.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMXMKEsW1qQ


See a recap of the famous tiebreaker:

http://www.wimbledon.org/en_GB/about/history/1980.html
 
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The rivalries at that time were very unique. All four of these players had a burning desire to win, all with different styles and different personalities and last but not least, all super players who often had great matches against each other.

I'm kind of glad McEnroe implies that he is getting along with Lendl somewhat now. I always felt Lendl got a bad rap as the dour, humorless personality.
 
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pc1 said:
The rivalries at that time were very unique. All four of these players had a burning desire to win, all with different styles and different personalities and last but now least, all super players who often had great matches against each other.

I'm kind of glad McEnroe implies that he is getting along with Lendl somewhat now. I always felt Lendl got a bad rap as the dour, humorless personality.
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Very true PC1. I'm glad that Lendl's image has also softened some. The thing about Borg, Connors, McEnroe, and Lendl was that they combined great tennis skill (very rare talents all four of them), with STEELY determination and concentration. If you faced one of these 4 guys in a GS, get ready to DO BATTLE, because none of them would hand you a easy match. You had to apply maximum effort, concentration and produce great tennis for an entire match in order to prevail. Those guys would never give in and would fight all the way through matches. They were all very tough customers.

Connors-AL-WEB-.jpg




79648218.jpg
 
I love the old wimbledon vids, you can see the ball just as well as you could on live television back in the day.....barely at all!! It's cool to see the old white ball, but glad they eventually eased up the "whiteness"! ;)
 
pc1 said:
I'm kind of glad McEnroe implies that he is getting along with Lendl somewhat now. I always felt Lendl got a bad rap as the dour, humorless personality.
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I felt the same way. It did seem, though, that McEnroe's implication of friendliness was buried in a series of comments you don't hear actual friends make about each other.

McEnroe said:
“It was the opposite with Lendl. We had some incredible matches, but off the court we were unable to communicate at times. These days we can, but when you’re playing the Tour as opposed to not having played a match in 15 years, it’s a little easier to look at things in a light-hearted manner. He was a guy that liked to poke fun and throw out some jokes. And the fact that they weren’t funny didn’t seem to bother him a whole lot. And they’re probably not funny now but it’s still fun that he tried. I’ve got to give him credit for trying. That’s half the battle!”
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If he'd been able to produce backhand winners then like he produces backhand compliments now, he wouldn't have had any problem with Lendl.
 
Great era for tennis. Talk about competition! These guys brought some great intensity and determination to most every match. And many of the other players weren't slouches either......
 
Don't Let It Bounce said:
I felt the same way. It did seem, though, that McEnroe's implication of friendliness was buried in a series of comments you don't hear actual friends make about each other.

If he'd been able to produce backhand winners then like he produces backhand compliments now, he wouldn't have had any problem with Lendl.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXlH73PxVBg

funny comment :)

sam7666 OMG, total backhand ownage - WACK - WACK - WACKKK! LMAO
Click to expand...
 
1970CRBase said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXlH73PxVBg

funny comment :)
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Mac can be funny, Lendl also but you just have had to be on their wavelength!
Just ask Rochey!
Playing against them though would have been a nightmare and not just because of their playing skills! On court it was just a war- 2 guys that didn't understand each other - culturally or with their sense of humour, Borg also has a very dry sense of humour but he didn't show it on court. He had his game face. With Connors, Mac and even Lendl when you got him angry there were mood swings all over the place!
But then..they were "big dogs" and imposed their personality on the cage that was their tennis court.
 
borg number one said:
Very true PC1. I'm glad that Lendl's image has also softened some. The thing about Borg, Connors, McEnroe, and Lendl was that they combined great tennis skill (very rare talents all four of them), with STEELY determination and concentration. If you faced one of these 4 guys in a GS, get ready to DO BATTLE, because none of them would hand you a easy match. You had to apply maximum effort, concentration and produce great tennis for an entire match in order to prevail. Those guys would never give in and would fight all the way through matches. They were all very tough customers.

094C86B8C85EB3BD10C0F8A6B[/IMG]
Click to expand...

Lendl was never a BAD guy, but he really was a bit of a punk himself underneath the robot image. It was said by many, (not just Mac or Connors) that he tried to be a bully in the locker room, that he mocked journeymen, and that he had a weird sense of humour. More than one article talked about how Lendl's weird sense of humour included having his dogs attack (or threaten) guests to his house! Even though the guests were not amused!

Basically Lendl was an man-child who overcompensated, Jimmy was an all around jerk, and Mac was a decent guy with a horrible temper. All in all, quite a group! ;-) Maybe Borg retired just to get away from them all! ;-)

At least Vitas was everyone's buddy.
 
Yes, you are right Datacipher. That's a good way to describe things between those folks. Vitas was a friend to them wasn't he?

31mcenroe.jpg



All four, even Borg, could be considered quite "eccentric" and they were all so tennis driven. They wanted to win so badly and would give no quarter to any of their opponents. Lots of drama...before Lendl, Vilas was in the mix on clay, but Lendl really brought more intensity out on the court. Lendl was already very good by 1981-1982 (he started beating McEnroe and Connors pretty regularly around then), yet I wish we could have seen some more years with all 4 of them at the top.

By 1982, Borg was gone and Lendl/Wilander emerged in his place. Borg's departure really seemed to change the dynamics at the top. McEnroe seemed down and somewhat depressed for a while after Borg would not return. His "inspiration" in a way was gone.

Meanwhile, Lendl started to forge his own championship identity and Connors seemed to thrive once again, as he literally fought with McEnroe and emerged as #1 in 1982. After that, you had Lendl and McEnroe really going at it for Tennis supremacy. What a group of 4! Imagine Connors at the US Open (and Wimbledon), McEnroe at the US Open and Wimbledon,Lendl at the French Open (and later the US Open), and Borg a threat everywhere. Imagine trying to win a Grand Slam with those guys facing you one after another!

LENDL_Ivan_1981_GH_L.jpg


ivan-lendl.jpg


connors-mcenroe1.jpg
 
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jimbo333 said:
Fantastic photos, just superb:)
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Thanks Jimbo333. I'm glad you're enjoying them. I love those old photos, but all tennis photos in general. When you look at these, they transport you and remind you of how good those guys were and how they left such an impression on us.
 
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Here's 4 more for you:

The "Belleville Basher", the "Brash Basher from Belleville":
Jimmy-Connors-Photograph-C10038471.jpeg




The Swedish "Enigma", the "Ice Man"
image


The "Genius From Queens", the "Super Brat"
john-mcenroe.jpg


and the "Czech Assassin", the "Terminator"

ivan-lendl1-239x300.jpg
 
pc1 said:
I echo the sentiments. Incidentally Lendl hated that Sports Illustrated cover.
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As well he should have, although the cover is pretty much correct. I like Lendl but he had some negative traits which could make one cringe.
 
Fantastic photos thanks for posting. it's like looking at live art. That SI cover was inaccurate, Lendl had many fans, and I know Ted Williams was a Lendl fan, Ted Williams also liked Michael Chang. Will try to find the link to that interview with the Splinter.

it's going to be interesting to see Lendl play Wilander this weekend in AC. Can't wwait for that.
 
Datacipher said:
Lendl was never a BAD guy, but he really was a bit of a punk himself underneath the robot image. It was said by many, (not just Mac or Connors) that he tried to be a bully in the locker room, that he mocked journeymen, and that he had a weird sense of humour. More than one article talked about how Lendl's weird sense of humour included having his dogs attack (or threaten) guests to his house! Even though the guests were not amused!

Basically Lendl was an man-child who overcompensated, Jimmy was an all around jerk, and Mac was a decent guy with a horrible temper. All in all, quite a group! ;-) Maybe Borg retired just to get away from them all! ;-)

At least Vitas was everyone's buddy.
Click to expand...

Lendl was a bit odd all the way around; not to mention having his "child bride"...who was his underage girlfriend who eventually became his wife
 
that SI cover was really quite cruel, but reflected the fact that US fans just did not care much for Lendl...and it was not just an American thing, as they had previously liked players like Borg and Vilas very much. Lendl just had a way about him that did not engender the fans, and he didn't care. He was a fine player, no doubt and worthy of competing w/the other 3 greats. But, not sure John or Jimmy ever saw it that way; i think they felt he was a rung beneath them.
 
Datacipher said:
OH yes, I had completely forgotten about....Samantha Frankel was it?
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yes, that was her name; I could not remember! she was something like 15 yrs old and she came over to the US with him....it was very icky! she was clearly underage and it was clear that she was his girlfriend....I doubt he could get away w/something like that today; the press would be all over him...

he was crazy with those dogs too...I love dogs, but would not want them charging me when I entered your house!
 
borg number one said:
Awesome Krosero. Thanks for that. I forgot how often Lendl would go for the body blow!
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And more than once Lendl afterward gave my favorite post-match press conference reply to the inevitable question: "Vell, nobody ask him to come to net."

Anyone remember the U.S. Open sometime in the 80's when other players started following Lendl's example? I recall American Chip Hooper, a huge, strong power player, knocking someone down with a forehand in the early rounds. When asked about it afterward, he replied (with a fake Czech accent), "Vell, nobody ask him to come to net."
 
jrepac said:
yes, that was her name; I could not remember! she was something like 15 yrs old and she came over to the US with him....it was very icky! she was clearly underage and it was clear that she was his girlfriend....I doubt he could get away w/something like that today; the press would be all over him...

he was crazy with those dogs too...I love dogs, but would not want them charging me when I entered your house!
Click to expand...

yes, it took me a couple min. to remember also...I kept thinking "sonja...." but that was Mat's flame at the time. Yes, I remember the press being all over him, FIFTEEN was it?? I thought she was at least 17.

Yes, now that I think of it, I recall Lendl HIMSELF bragging to journalists about how the dogs would obey his every order and attack anyone on command. He seemed amused in one case when he had his dogs threatening a reporter, and I recall a junior player, talking about his run-ins with the dogs as Lendl's practice partner...again, much to Lendl's amusement. The thing is, it didn't sound amusing at all, for anyone else!
 
Don't Let It Bounce said:
And more than once Lendl afterward gave my favorite post-match press conference reply to the inevitable question: "Vell, nobody ask him to come to net."

Anyone remember the U.S. Open sometime in the 80's when other players started following Lendl's example? I recall American Chip Hooper, a huge, strong power player, knocking someone down with a forehand in the early rounds. When asked about it afterward, he replied (with a fake Czech accent), "Vell, nobody ask him to come to net."
Click to expand...

Good memory. Yes, I remember Hooper nailing that guy, and Lendl was a cold blooded ASSASSIN. He didn't care one bit about what his opponent or the crowd was thinking of him, he wanted to seek and destroy his opponent. Like Borg, in his own way. Players didn't like him, but they feared and respected him.
 
jrepac said:
Lendl was a bit odd all the way around; not to mention having his "child bride"...who was his underage girlfriend who eventually became his wife
Click to expand...

That's pretty close-minded. She was hardly a child and we don't really know exactly when she did become his girlfriend.

Also, they're happily married. How terrible.
 
CyBorg said:
That's pretty close-minded. She was hardly a child and we don't really know exactly when she did become his girlfriend.

Also, they're happily married. How terrible.
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15 is hardly a child? Don't know where you are from but in this country that statutory child and more importantly we don't condone those type of relationships.
 
CyBorg said:
That's pretty close-minded. She was hardly a child and we don't really know exactly when she did become his girlfriend.

Also, they're happily married. How terrible.
Click to expand...
Yeah, all appearances are that it worked out better than most marriages, and that's a good thing.

However, I remember them dating, and even speaking as a Lendl fan, it was a little creepy for the 20th century, in an Elvis-&-Priscilla, arranged-marriage sort of way. (Par for the course by earlier standards, incidentally... and if anyone has the discipline to conduct an Old-World courting of a child bride without bringing in New World pre-marital relations that would merit a statutory **** charge, Lendl just might be that guy!) I believe Wojtek Fibak was a friend of the Frankl family and introduced them. The press must have said something, else I wouldn't have known about it, but I remember wondering why they didn't squawk about it more.

They do seem happy now (then, too, I guess), and I hope they really are.
 
pmerk34 said:
15 is hardly a child? Don't know where you are from but in this country that statutory child and more importantly we don't condone those type of relationships.
Click to expand...

In some cultures, people married at 14. 15 is a child only in accordance with the legal definition in certain cultures. It's not a child in the same way that someone of the age of 10 is a child.

Secondly, as explained already, she was not necessarily his girlfriend at 15. But someone he knew.

Thirdly, no one gives a crap what you condone in your country. There are different countries and different cultures and they all have their own points of view.
 
Don't Let It Bounce said:
Yeah, all appearances are that it worked out better than most marriages, and that's a good thing.

However, I remember them dating, and even speaking as a Lendl fan, it was a little creepy for the 20th century, in an Elvis-&-Priscilla, arranged-marriage sort of way. (Par for the course by earlier standards, incidentally... and if anyone has the discipline to conduct an Old-World courting of a child bride without bringing in New World pre-marital relations that would merit a statutory **** charge, Lendl just might be that guy!) I believe Wojtek Fibak was a friend of the Frankl family and introduced them. The press must have said something, else I wouldn't have known about it, but I remember wondering why they didn't squawk about it more.

They do seem happy now (then, too, I guess), and I hope they really are.
Click to expand...
'

Yes. It's important to remember that this is a question of ethics, and it is likely most people would NOT take try to justify this with a consequentialist argument. Thus, a positive outcome does not in any way justify the actions of the time. Further, even if one does want to argue that, it is by no means certain that the best outcome was achieved.
 
CyBorg said:
In some cultures, people married at 14. 15 is a child only in accordance with the legal definition in certain cultures. It's not a child in the same way that someone of the age of 10 is a child.

Secondly, as explained already, she was not necessarily his girlfriend at 15. But someone he knew.

Thirdly, no one gives a crap what you condone in your country. There are different countries and different cultures and they all have their own points of view.
Click to expand...

I don't wish to speak for him, but it does not appear he is appealing to the standards of his country. You appear to be the only doing that.
 
Datacipher said:
I don't wish to speak for him, but it does not appear he is appealing to the standards of his country. You appear to be the only doing that.
Click to expand...

He said "this country", which I assume would be his country. I'm in Canada, where the age of consent is currently 18, but was 16 not very long ago. So obviously I'm not appealing to the laws nor morals of my country.

By the way, the age of consent in Czech Republic is 15. In the United States, this varies from state to state.
 
CyBorg said:
He said "this country", which I assume would be his country. I'm in Canada, where the age of consent is currently 18, but was 16 not very long ago. So obviously I'm not appealing to the laws nor morals of my country.

By the way, the age of consent in Czech Republic is 15. In the United States, this varies from state to state.
Click to expand...

Ah, my mistake, I was intending to refer to Don'tletitbounce, not pmerk who did appeal to his countries standards.

As for me, I have ethical issues with it, but it has nothing to do with accepted standards (it's just as useless to point to countries where it's done at a young age to justify it), or the law.
 
CyBorg said:
In some cultures, people married at 14. 15 is a child only in accordance with the legal definition in certain cultures. It's not a child in the same way that someone of the age of 10 is a child.

Secondly, as explained already, she was not necessarily his girlfriend at 15. But someone he knew.

Thirdly, no one gives a crap what you condone in your country. There are different countries and different cultures and they all have their own points of view.
Click to expand...

Uh, yes we do and if you are bringing a 15 year old "girlfriend" to this country and you are over 18 then you you must be prepared to deal wit the laws here - not "some other country"
 
A 15-year-old female is not a child. She's a young woman fully capable of bearing a child.

We often forget that people used to get married as young as 10 only a century or two ago. The main criterion was the ability to procreate. Of course there have been cultural changes since then, but that's what they are, changes of culture.

The purpose of age of consent is to protect the children from being sexually manipulated by the adults. You can't say Frankel was one of such children just because she was underage according to the law. Everyone matures in a differently way, but it's widely accepted (correctly) that girls on the whole mature earlier than boys. Add these together and it becomes perfectly plausible that Frankel was mature enough to make her own decisions with the guidance of her family, relatives, friends and acquaintances. They seemed to be OK with her relationship with Lendl, and unless I'm mistaken she and Lendl didn't break any laws. And they seem happy together to this day. Good for them.
 
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