mcenroe on raducanu match

jm1980

G.O.A.T.
John McEnroe slammed for comments over Emma Raducanu withdrawal | John McEnroe | The Guardian

is this just an article making something out of nothing? i didnt see the match only the article, and i dont
see where he said anything that could be deemed as offensive?? all he said was she couldnt handle the
situation i dont get it :oops:
McEnroe is an idiot for suggesting she retired because it became "too much" for Raducanu (as opposed to a legitimate medical issue)

But yes, this is someone making something out of nothing
 

Brian11785

Hall of Fame
Nothing offensive here. He is, in his own way, being empathetic. She was definitely riding an adrenaline high from the first point in the match. I could definitely see how someone could have a panic attack or the like if that emotional intensity level is sustained for an extended period. Especially someone so new to this type of pressure.

Also, I don't think "things being too much" and "legitimate medical issue" are in any way mutually exclusive.
 

Aussie Darcy

Bionic Poster
John McEnroe slammed for comments over Emma Raducanu withdrawal | John McEnroe | The Guardian

is this just an article making something out of nothing? i didnt see the match only the article, and i dont
see where he said anything that could be deemed as offensive?? all he said was she couldnt handle the
situation i dont get it :oops:
She retired with injury how does he know it was because she couldn’t handle the situation? If a player broke their leg and retired would he have said they couldn’t handle the situation? It’s just stupid commentary from McEnroe.
 

Jokervich

Hall of Fame
She might have been injured. Or maybe she couldn't handle the situation. It's hard to tell.

But either way, we've seen this situation countless times - rising star has a few high profile wins, maybe wins a tournament, gets praised and hyped up to be the next big thing, then loses and achieves very little in their career thereafter.
 

Kralingen

Hall of Fame
End of the day, someone had to give live commentary on what was a confusing and worrying situation with Raducanu looking sick, then showing signs of some sort of hyperventilation, then inexplicably having to put on a mask (?) for her breathing problems, then retiring. Seriously, what the hell was going on with the mask? How would that be helpful at all?

I don’t ever try to blame first responders trying to provide detail with inaccurate information. He seemed very worried for her and I’m sure he didn’t mean anything bad by it.
 

tennis24x7

Semi-Pro
She might have been injured. Or maybe she couldn't handle the situation. It's hard to tell.

But either way, we've seen this situation countless times - rising star has a few high profile wins, maybe wins a tournament, gets praised and hyped up to be the next big thing, then loses and achieves very little in their career thereafter.
Gavrilova, Oudin
 

tennis24x7

Semi-Pro
she retired due to breathing difficulty possibly due to a panic attack
Maybe they gave the wild card too soon. The blessing as well as the curse of the 4 GS countries who give wild cards to their rising tennis stars must be opened to players of other countries too.
 

Dan Lobb

G.O.A.T.
She might have been injured. Or maybe she couldn't handle the situation. It's hard to tell.

But either way, we've seen this situation countless times - rising star has a few high profile wins, maybe wins a tournament, gets praised and hyped up to be the next big thing, then loses and achieves very little in their career thereafter.
Has she achieved little in the rest of her career yet?
 

Tshooter

G.O.A.T.
End of the day, someone had to give live commentary on what was a confusing and worrying situation with Raducanu looking sick, then showing signs of some sort of hyperventilation, then inexplicably having to put on a mask (?) for her breathing problems, then retiring. Seriously, what the hell was going on with the mask? How would that be helpful at all?

I don’t ever try to blame first responders trying to provide detail with inaccurate information. He seemed very worried for her and I’m sure he didn’t mean anything bad by it.
Masks are very popular these days. More seriously, yes, except I think you meant first respondents (Jmac) not first responders (medical personnel). Though maybe it's better to just say, in effect, "I don't know" and wait for better info.

Of course, it won't slow the Aussie shrill, outrage bot. That's how the algorithm works.
 

mwym

Semi-Pro
Nothing offensive here. He is, in his own way, being empathetic. She was definitely riding an adrenaline high from the first point in the match. I could definitely see how someone could have a panic attack or the like if that emotional intensity level is sustained for an extended period. Especially someone so new to this type of pressure.

Also, I don't think "things being too much" and "legitimate medical issue" are in any way mutually exclusive.
It might not be a panic attack exactly, maybe the opposite of it. But adrenaline was too high from the first point and her mind is young, does not know itself yet and had no similar (home Slam) experience prior to this one. So it did not calm itself at all and created positive feedback with her high motivation ('make mom proud') and it went through the rough to become self harming.

She retired for 'medical reasons' not 'injury'. Which means puls / blood pressure too high (adrenaline) - doctors had to prevent her from continuing, and likely something to drop both fast ...

She will be fine. It is experience she needs to win big in future, by using her motivation as neded, not at full throttle each second of the match. Next time she will be ready.
 
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Tshooter

G.O.A.T.
It might not be a panic attack exactly, maybe the opposite of it....
I don't know what she had but Malisse, W semis, 2002, came immediately to mind:

" On Friday, he was struggling with respiratory problems during the opening set against Nalbandian. After treatment for dizziness, he returned to put pressure on his opponent, but could not sustain that vibe overnight....He did not use his condition as an excuse even though he was advised by tournament officials to retire after the first signs of heart palpitations on Friday.

''It's blown out of proportion,'' said Malisse, who has experienced the symptoms before. ''I was stressed yesterday. I get it sometimes when I'm really stressed.''"

 

JeffG

Rookie
It’s interesting that Mac mentioned his own problems handling the pressure when he was very young. It’s also interesting that few attributed his boorishness to youth and pressure when it first started occurring.
 

Tshooter

G.O.A.T.
We all know what you were thinking :whistle:
The programming "team" determined it would be more "inclusive" to simply trigger a response when anyone over a certain age spoke rather than limiting the rule to over the age threshold + white. If over the age threshold + white, then a separate, more damning canned response is generated.

Thank you for your interest in the project.
 
Nothing offensive here. He is, in his own way, being empathetic. She was definitely riding an adrenaline high from the first point in the match. I could definitely see how someone could have a panic attack or the like if that emotional intensity level is sustained for an extended period. Especially someone so new to this type of pressure.

Also, I don't think "things being too much" and "legitimate medical issue" are in any way mutually exclusive.
Great comments
 

mwym

Semi-Pro
It’s interesting that Mac mentioned his own problems handling the pressure when he was very young. It’s also interesting that few attributed his boorishness to youth and pressure when it first started occurring.
Boorishness is chaneling insecurity into what looks like "more manly' by the standards of that era. But it takes your mind off of what causes insecurity. A kind of backing off - being scared but masking it.

Raducanu actually deliberately pumped her adrenaline even more, like fighting fire with fire.Which is THE OPPOSITE of backing off. No one taught her what to do and how to use her mind to calm down first and then step on motivation pedal as needed. So she actually acted bravely to a point of self harm. Opposite of panic attack.

These two are as different as they can be. And no - McEnroe is neither dumb nor mean for not knowing the difference.

note : I already said - this is real life 'Lara Croft' in the making, a bit too keen to get there, as all youngsters are.
 
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Visionary

Professional
Commentators who assume in teams sports that teams stink are a little offensive; commentators who suggest individual players suck are insulting. If a commentator on air claims without facts that a player on the tennis court is faking an injury, he is just plain disrespectful to the player. But this wouldn't be the first time McEnroe demonstrated how unprofessional his mouth can be.
 

jm1980

G.O.A.T.
End of the day, someone had to give live commentary on what was a confusing and worrying situation with Raducanu looking sick, then showing signs of some sort of hyperventilation, then inexplicably having to put on a mask (?) for her breathing problems, then retiring. Seriously, what the hell was going on with the mask? How would that be helpful at all?

I don’t ever try to blame first responders trying to provide detail with inaccurate information. He seemed very worried for her and I’m sure he didn’t mean anything bad by it.
The mask is protocol here. Every time the physio comes out, the players are wearing masks
 
I remember Sampras hyperventilating as he got near the finish line at 93 Wimbledon. Said he was feeling the pressure afterwards. I guess we can’t acknowledge nerves can physically affect performance without upsetting someone
I remember Sampras playing a match where by the end of it he was doubled over and puking between points.
 

Russeljones

G.O.A.T.
She retired with injury how does he know it was because she couldn’t handle the situation? If a player broke their leg and retired would he have said they couldn’t handle the situation? It’s just stupid commentary from McEnroe.
There was talk of a panic attack yesterday. If that isn't what happened, I am sure we'll find out what her injury was. If no real injury is described (and it would have to be something special for the manner in which the defaulted), then they'll have to suck it up and admit JMac was right.
 

Raul_SJ

G.O.A.T.
She might have been injured. Or maybe she couldn't handle the situation. It's hard to tell.

But either way, we've seen this situation countless times - rising star has a few high profile wins, maybe wins a tournament, gets praised and hyped up to be the next big thing, then loses and achieves very little in their career thereafter.
She said at the press conference that her parents told her to pack lightly for Wimbledon Bubble because she would be coming home soon... Very odd thing to say.
 

Raul_SJ

G.O.A.T.
The PC way of saying she had a panic attack? Either way, I don't think anyone is piling in on her. She's just a normal teenager, not Seles winning 8 majors.
She was ranked #338 and given a WC. Had never even faced a Top 100 player in a match. Very questionable whether she belonged at Wimbledon with the world's best 128, her little run notwithstanding.

But Wimbledon is desperate to hype a British player. This type of shameless wild card favoritism needs to be done away with when there are many worthy much higher ranked players waiting to play Wimbledon.
 
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_GOATbis

Semi-Pro
Top 400 retired due to panic attack from the Centre Court while #2 Medvedev played on the side court and forces to play 3 consecutive days while meeting Federer next.

P A T H E T I C

It’s totally biased towards the slavic / eastern-europe players just like Djokovic mentioned many times.
 

Bender

G.O.A.T.
She retired with injury how does he know it was because she couldn’t handle the situation? If a player broke their leg and retired would he have said they couldn’t handle the situation? It’s just stupid commentary from McEnroe.
Then he'd have said "She retired because she couldn't stand the situation"
 

Raul_SJ

G.O.A.T.
She retired with injury how does he know it was because she couldn’t handle the situation? If a player broke their leg and retired would he have said they couldn’t handle the situation? It’s just stupid commentary from McEnroe.
And how the hell does Ajila know that Jelena is "lying" about her injury but that Emma has a legitimate injury?

Ajla's behaviour was disgraceful but it is about what you would expect from someone who was stupid enough to date Kyrgios.

Can't wait until Ashley Bartley destroys her in the next round!

 

jm1980

G.O.A.T.
She was ranked #338 and given a WC. Had never even faced a Top 100 player in a match. Very questionable whether she belonged at Wimbledon with the world's best 128, her little run notwithstanding.

But Wimbledon is desperate to hype a British player. This type of shameless wild card favoritism needs to be done away with when there are many worthy much higher ranked players waiting to play Wimbledon.
You realize that's how these things work, not just at Wimbledon, but in every tennis tournament, right?

There are plenty of wildcards ranked below #300. You can expect a couple in every Slam

Slam​
Player​
Ranking*​
Result​
2021 WimbledonEmma Raducanu338Fourth round
2021 French OpenDiane Parry307First round
2021 French OpenElsa Jacquemot493First round
2021 French OpenOceane Babel1105First round
2021 Australian OpenDaria Gavrilova452Second round
2021 Australian OpenKimberly Birrell747First round
2020 US OpenRobin Montgomery593First round
2020 US OpenKatrina Scott637Second round
* ranking at the time the Slam was played

So not only did she outperform these ladies, but she outperformed most wildcards ranked in the 100-200 range as well. Wildcards very rarely win more than 1 round regardless of ranking.
 

Raul_SJ

G.O.A.T.
You realize that's how these things work, not just at Wimbledon, but in every tennis tournament, right?

There are plenty of wildcards ranked below #300. You can expect a couple in every Slam

Slam​
Player​
Ranking​
Result​
2021 WimbledonEmma Raducanu338Fourth round
2021 French OpenDiane Parry307First round
2021 French OpenElsa Jacquemot493First round
2021 French OpenOceane Babel1105First round
2021 Australian OpenDaria Gavrilova452Second round
2021 Australian OpenKimberly Birrell747First round
2020 US OpenRobin Montgomery593First round
2020 US OpenKatrina Scott637Second round

So not only did she outperform these ladies, but she outperformed most wildcards ranked in the 100-200 range as well. Wildcards very rarely win more than 1 round regardless of ranking.
Expect that Wimbledon, the world's premier tennis event, has the Top 150 or 200 players in the world. The only exceptions would be already established players who have been injured.

There is no way Emma plays Wimbledon if she was not from England.
 

jm1980

G.O.A.T.
And how the hell does Ajila know that Jelena is "lying" about her injury but that Emma has a legitimate injury?

Ajla's behaviour was disgraceful but it is about what you would expect from someone who was stupid enough to date Kyrgios.
Ostapenko was running around fine, with no signs of an injury. Then she just sits down when Ajla is about to serve and asks for the trainer, and when she comes back she wins two games (after losing 6 games in a row). It was highly suspect

You could tell Ajla was thinking "Oh no, not this BS again!" when Raducanu went off the court. But then she retired from the match, which certainly lends more credence to the idea that she was actually injured.
 

jm1980

G.O.A.T.
Expect that Wimbledon, the world's premier tennis event, has the Top 150 or 200 players in the world. The only exceptions would be already established players who have been injured.

There is no way Emma plays Wimbledon if she was not from England.
And there's no way those ladies would have played in the AO/FO/USO if they weren't Australian/French/American.

That's how wildcards have always worked. They are given to local talent whose ranking wouldn't have given them direct entry to the tournament
 

Tshooter

G.O.A.T.
And how the hell does Ajila know that Jelena is "lying" about her injury but that Emma has a legitimate injury?

Ajla's behaviour was disgraceful but it is about what you would expect from someone who was stupid enough to date Kyrgios…
JO is a very bad actor. I’m surprised she fooled you. I‘m sure your in-person diagnostic skills are significantly better.

Ajila should win the Laureus Sportsperson of the Year award for having the courage to call out the cheat. There is a lot of pressure just to play along.

How to handle it going forward. You can have the MTO and the hammer or you can get back on the court. You can't have both. End of MTO abuse.

 
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Raul_SJ

G.O.A.T.
And there's no way those ladies would have played in the AO/FO/USO if they weren't Australian/French/American.

That's how wildcards have always worked. They are given to local talent whose ranking wouldn't have given them direct entry to the tournament
And that shameless home country favoritism is exactly why wild cards must be abolished.

The #700 Frenchwoman Ocean Babel has no business playing Roland Garros.
 

Tshooter

G.O.A.T.
Expect that Wimbledon, the world's premier tennis event, has the Top 150 or 200 players in the world. The only exceptions would be already established players who have been injured.

There is no way Emma plays Wimbledon if she was not from England.
No kidding. That’s how wild cards work. They like to give them to nationals because the locals like it. Emma more than took advantage of the opportunity. She turned out to be a brilliant WC pick. You’re acting like they wasted a WC on Ryan Harrison.
 

jm1980

G.O.A.T.
And that shameless home country favoritism is exactly why wild cards must be abolished.

The #700 Frenchwoman Ocean Babel has no business playing Roland Garros.
If your stance is against wildcards in general, then I understand (even though I don't agree)

But you seemed to be singling out the British for giving Raducanu a WC, when literally everyone does this
 

Raul_SJ

G.O.A.T.
Ostapenko was running around fine, with no signs of an injury. Then she just sits down when Ajla is about to serve and asks for the trainer, and when she comes back she wins two games (after losing 6 games in a row). It was highly suspect
Always best to take opponent at his word when he claims injury. You would feel just terrible if Jelena had indeed suffered a heart attack...

The wise mentally strong player uses the opponent's three minute medical time out to his advantage.

A great player does not whine about it. Just deals with it. Just wins.

Moreover, the current rules completely allows it so it is ridiculous for Ajla to demand the umpire deny her request for medical treatment.

No way an an umpire can deny that under current rules. Ajla needs to get familiar with the rulebook.
 
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D

Deleted member 783101

Guest
It's a cheaply made, crude algorithm. Essentially it simply hunts for "trigger" words or phrases from a very long list which takes into account a variety of factors including age and then it returns one of a limited number of canned responses.

Please contribute to the kickstarter so additional programming resources may be obtained to improve the effort.
I read an online article some time ago explaining how social media are designed to minimize information( in Shannon's information theory definition). It was poorly written but it did help me better grasp how such zombified finite state automata behavior could emerge from spending time on social media.
Also, I thinks its totally feasible to code the behavior of some users on this forum, without event resorting to fancy techniques.
 

Tshooter

G.O.A.T.
If your stance is against wildcards in general, then I understand (even though I don't agree)

But you seemed to be singling out the British for giving Raducanu a WC, when literally everyone does this
The British should be singled out for many crimes but giving out WCs to whichever Brit they want is not among them.

Always best to take opponent at his word when he claims injury. You would feel just terrible if Jelena had suffered a heart attack...

The wise mentally strong player uses the opponent's three minute medical time out to his advantage.

A great player does not whine about it. Just deals with it. Just wins.
Meanwhile, AT won and is in the QFs and JO is probably at Haagen-Dazs.
 
Expect that Wimbledon, the world's premier tennis event, has the Top 150 or 200 players in the world. The only exceptions would be already established players who have been injured.

There is no way Emma plays Wimbledon if she was not from England.
@jm1980 is correct, the wildcard situation is an issue pretty much everywhere and is another example of the uneasy conflicts of interest that are present all through professional tennis. It's not just Wimbledon.

Youre right that Wimbledon has a lot to answer for, but pretty much all the big events do, along with many of the smaller events. And it's not just parochialism for hometown players, but weird reciprocal deals between tennis federations, and also sometimes management agencies like IMG who run tennis tournaments also manage players, and can be a little bit naughty with giving WCs to players on their books. Have a look at some of the wildcards that get spots at events in places like Doha or IMG players getting wildcards at tournaments that are run by IMG :)

In the end, the organisers were vindicated in the specific case of Raducanu because she took her wildcard and made a big run at the event. She played way better than her ranking suggested and played superb tennis up until the match against Tomljanovic.

Perversely, the most impressive thing for me about Raducanu prior to the Tomljanovic match was how amazingly she was embracing the moment. She dealt with a lot of pressure in the previous match when Cirstea turned the tables and started to come back in the second set before Radacanu iced the match.
 
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