Media claim that Djokovic is still the “third wheel” in Tennis Trifecta

[Gary Duane]

Sorry but that article is just crap and says more about the guy who wrote it than it does about people who just respect the language to want to speak it correctly. Do you imagine any of the non-English speakers on here would tolerate for one second making a grammatical howler in their language? Like heck they would. They'd correct you straightaway. It only seems to be native English speakers who seem to think it's "cool" to mangle their own language.

I have a degree in English so I guess I feel more sensitive on this subject than most but I'm not being nit-picky. There are plenty of non-grammatical comments on here that I overlook because, as I said, they don't sound too bad but to write "they were wrote" instead of "they were written" just sounds unnecessarily hideous. Did you really not know the difference?

Sorry to sound like a schoolteacher (which I was for a while) but language is important and correct usage only adds to understanding, not the other way round.

Now I'll get off my soapbox and get back to talking about what I really want to talk about on here......tennis!

I think you are a good poster, and I often agree with you, but not this time. I can go toe-to-toe with you any day re the English language.

I agree with the article. It's not my job to correct other people, unless they ask, and people would rightfully think that I'm a bit "up tight" if I start correcting their English.

It's one thing not to see mistakes. I see all of them in other people's writing, although I am horrible in proofing myself. But there is no need to mention them unless my help is requested.

By the way:

"For example, extraverts were generally much more likely to overlook both grammar mix ups and typos, whereas introverts were more likely to judge the applicants negatively because of them."

 

[Mainad]

I'm sure he "picks them up". I do. I see every grammar mistake because I'm trained to do it. I just never mention it to anyone who does not ask for help because it's at the least a bit rude, and pinging people for English mistakes on an international forum gets you into some embarrassing situations if you try to write in another language. When I write in German I pray for compassion from those who use German as their mother tongue.

As I said I don't go around pointing out every grammatical blunder, just those that sound particularly bad like the example we discussed. It would be interesting to hear the views of non-native speakers on here about this. Would they decline to point out a similar grammatical blunder in their own language? If not, then I rest my case.

 

[Mainad]

I think you are a good poster, and I often agree with you, but not this time. I can go toe-to-toe with you any day re the English language.

I agree with the article. It's not my job to correct other people, unless they ask, and people would rightfully think that I'm a bit "up tight" if I start correcting their English.

It's one thing not to see mistakes. I see all of them in other people's writing, although I am horrible in proofing myself. But there is no need to mention them unless my help is requested.

By the way:

"For example, extraverts were generally much more likely to overlook both grammar mix ups and typos, whereas introverts were more likely to judge the applicants negatively because of them."

The trouble with that view is how far do we take it? Sometimes grammar can be so garbled that it's difficult to understand what is being said. Do we just shrug our shoulders and pretend we understand? How does that help communication?

As I said, I only point out the more extreme ones with the intention of being helpful and to aid communication, not to be nit-picky but maybe you're right and I should just shut up and suffer in silence.

 

[Gary Duane]

The trouble with that view is how far do we take it? Sometimes grammar can be so garbled that it's difficult to understand what is being said. Do we just shrug our shoulders and pretend we understand? How does that help communication?

As I said, I only point out the more extreme ones with the intention of being helpful and to aid communication, not to be nit-picky but maybe you're right and I should just shut up and suffer in silence.

I usually only point out problems when I actually have trouble reading something and don't know what's being written.

I was going to write a PM, but weirdly when I clicked on your name I got no info. That is just weird.

 

[Mainad]

I usually only point out problems when I actually have trouble reading something and don't know what's being written.

I was going to write a PM, but weirdly when I clicked on your name I got no info. That is just weird.

Maybe it's something I have to do on my profile. I'll check it and see.

 

[Gary Duane]

Maybe it's something I have to do on my profile. I'll check it and see.

You probably have yourself on some kind of setting that does not even tell people you are not reachable. I was going to talk "English shop" a bit.

 

[Mustard]

Paywalls on these media sites are a joke. Who the heck would pay?

 

[Beckerserve]

It won’t

Maybe maybe not. But i only talk as of today.
We have no idea what future holds. Berretini winning queens for instance id have thought was impossible!!

 

[Tony48]

As long as he's the GOAT, who cares. Fans are always going to have their favorites and some are going to be more liked than others.

 

[Beckerserve]

Oh, hi Rafa, didn't realize you were a TTW member

Im not Rafa. The amount of times i have been accused of being him is amazing though!

 

[Beckerserve]

Well he's in great position to pass both but the point is if their careers ended today, Djokovic has had a better career than Nadal. Only fans like you would think otherwise.

Lol no. If their careers ended today Nadal has had the better career. Djokovic was more consistent. But everyone would prefer Nadal career. He has statue!! That actually is a big deal. Nadal will be more remembered than Federer. Those 13 FOs are mind boggling. Add to that he leads slam race with Federer will mean Nadal is most remembered and therefore GOAT. If he wins USO then he seals the deal forever. USO is huge btw. Nadal knows it and has sacrificed W for it. If he wins a 5th USO he may have a statue in New York.

 

[pj80]

Sorry but that article is just crap and says more about the guy who wrote it than it does about people who just respect the language to want to speak it correctly. Do you imagine any of the non-English speakers on here would tolerate for one second making a grammatical howler in their language? Like heck they would. They'd correct you straightaway. It only seems to be native English speakers who seem to think it's "cool" to mangle their own language.

I have a degree in English so I guess I feel more sensitive on this subject than most but I'm not being nit-picky. There are plenty of non-grammatical comments on here that I overlook because, as I said, they don't sound too bad but to write "they were wrote" instead of "they were written" just sounds unnecessarily hideous. Did you really not know the difference?

Sorry to sound like a schoolteacher (which I was for a while) but language is important and correct usage only adds to understanding, not the other way round.

Now I'll get off my soapbox and get back to talking about what I really want to talk about on here......tennis!

yeah, like actual scientists would spend time researching people who correct other's grammar...phony article written by someone who was corrected a lot?

 

[Jai]

I’d say the articles are correct though. Novak can win 50 majors and 90% of the worlds population will agree Federer and Nadal were better irrespective of numbers because people won’t necessarily care about Djokovic as much as tennis lovers would know he was the greatest

I don't agree with this. People who continue saying "BETTER irrespective of numbers" aren't going to be taken seriously at all. But yes, there will be many who claim they still love their champ of choice more, despite the numbers, and that's OK. We all root for whomsoever we choose.

BTW, these articles, of handing over keys of a suite, etc - aren't going to mean a thing. Novak is targeting goals he has set for himself. He has PLENTY of people in his corner. It's OK if the other 2 are more popular, aren't these article getting quite blandly repetitive by this point? It's almost as if they are giving themselves a consolation prize, because someone they didn't necessarily root for, has achieved more than the person they would have preferred.

 

[GabeT]

I’d say the articles are correct though. Novak can win 50 majors and 90% of the worlds population will agree Federer and Nadal were better irrespective of numbers because people won’t necessarily care about Djokovic as much as tennis lovers would know he was the greatest

I think we don’t understand how much recency bias impacts all of this. Already you have commentators saying Novak is the greatest. If Novak ends up with 22-23 slams and records at weeks at #1 and YE1 the consensus will be overwhelming. once Federer and Nadal retire their fan bases will move on, as happened to all prior players

 

[NoleFam]

Lol no. If their careers ended today Nadal has had the better career. Djokovic was more consistent. But everyone would prefer Nadal career. He has statue!! That actually is a big deal. Nadal will be more remembered than Federer. Those 13 FOs are mind boggling. Add to that he leads slam race with Federer will mean Nadal is most remembered and therefore GOAT. If he wins USO then he seals the deal forever. USO is huge btw. Nadal knows it and has sacrificed W for it. If he wins a 5th USO he may have a statue in New York.

A statue in NY? LOL. If Sampras, an American with 5, doesn't have one who has a way more impressive record there and defeated Agassi in 3 finals, then Nadal sure isn't getting one with one more title. Also, Nadal being more remembered than Federer is also a serious stretch.

 

[Jai]

We are reaching a nice stage, where people upset about the way records are being smashed, take popularity as the measure of accomplishment.

What next, we shouldn't have slam tournaments anymore? Let's just have some rounds of the players modeling Armani suits to see who gets the most votes? Should we throw open the toll free lines for voice voting, that will make it simpler than playing out sets, no?

 

[Bartelby]

The third wheel become the big cheese!

 

[Beckerserve]

A statue in NY? LOL. If Sampras, an American with 5, doesn't have one who has a way more impressive record there and defeated Agassi in 3 finals, then Nadal sure isn't getting one with one more title. Also, Nadal being more remembered than Federer is also a serious stretch.

I go to Flushing every year. There is talk about statues being built.

 

[Jai]

Rod laver was playing in a time when we didn’t have the media and things we had now which is why he isn’t so much of a household name. Ask people who Novak Djokovic is, hardly anyone out of tennis circles will know, ask people who Fed and Nadal are, literally everyone knows

Sigh. this is SO reductive, and it isn't even remotely true. There have been tons of posts from cricket personalities hailing Novak in recent weeks. Cricket does not fall inside tennis circles.

 

[Tennis_Hands]

I think we don’t understand how much recency bias impacts all of this. Already you have commentators saying Novak is the greatest. If Novak ends up with 22-23 slams and records at weeks at #1 and YE1 the consensus will be overwhelming. once Federer and Nadal retire their fan bases will move on, as happened to all prior players

Consensus among whom? The ignorants with no historical perspective about the sport?

Who the heck would annoint any player, who had 15 years worth of career without a younger generation ATG, the best in anything?

 

[jm1980]

I don't agree with this. People who continue saying "BETTER irrespective of numbers" aren't going to be taken seriously at all. But yes, there will be many who claim they still love their champ of choice more, despite the numbers, and that's OK. We all root for whomsoever we choose.

Tennis is a most curious sport... Droves of recreational players claim they were the "better" player who lost to a "worse" player... Even though we have an objective criterion to measure who is the better player -- i.e.: the scoreline -- there are those who think differently. These are probably the same people who will regard Federer as the greatest irrespective of the numbers because he has a pretty backhand

 

[Beckerserve]

I think we don’t understand how much recency bias impacts all of this. Already you have commentators saying Novak is the greatest. If Novak ends up with 22-23 slams and records at weeks at #1 and YE1 the consensus will be overwhelming. once Federer and Nadal retire their fan bases will move on, as happened to all prior players

Which commentators outside Serbia? All i hear is if Djokovic wins W he is conversation. Latest being Andrew Castle apparently

 

[Beckerserve]

Consensus among whom? The ignorants with no historical perspective about the sport?

Who the heck would annoint any player, who had 15 years worth of career without a younger generation ATG, the best in anything?

Serbian press i assume he means

 

[Bartelby]

The three amigos are all equals unless one gets two ahead.

 

[Tennis_Hands]

Serbian press i assume he means

Aaah, I see, the highly influential, high quality writers.

 

[jm1980]

Which commentators outside Serbia? All i hear is if Djokovic wins W he is conversation. Latest being Andrew Castle apparently

John McEnroe says Novak will be BOAT if he beats Tsitsipas (source):
"It's going to be hard NOT to say [Djokovic] isn't the best of all-time, if he wins one of the next couple games."

His brother Patrick thinks Novak is on his way to GOAThood (source):
"Is Djokovic the greatest player of all time? That’s still up for debate. It certainly appears he’s on his way. What’s apparent now is that Djokovic is the most complete player of all time."

Laver opens up the possibility for Djokovic becoming the greatest (source):
“A lot of people, including myself, think that Federer is the best ever at the moment. But Novak’s compiling a big record, so you’ve got to look at his career. You have to put him in that group with the greatest players. He has to be up there.”

 

[Jai]

Must be comforting to close eyes to all the numerous other articles, while cherry picking only those which soothe their own frayed nerves and fit their own sour narrative

More proof, if it were needed, that Novak Djokovic is the best ever

When Novak Djokovic is widely acknowledged as the finest male tennis player to have drawn breath, as I believe he will be, the clinching evidence will always be

www.thetimes.co.uk

Novak Djokovic, French Open Winner and Likely the Best Ever

Along with Barbora Krejčíková, Djokovic was a singles champion in Paris this past weekend. He has now won nineteen majors, just one fewer than Rafael Nadal and Roger Federer.

www.newyorker.com

Why Novak Djokovic Is Already The Greatest Male Tennis Player Of All Time

It’s time to start talking about Novak Djokovic as the greatest male tennis player of all time.The Serb may not be as popular as fellow…

www.thesportsman.com

 

[beltsman]

An article from the Sunday times ( which requires a paid subscription to read) claims that Djokovic will forever be the third wheel in the Fed-Nadal- Djokovic saga. My friend who was able to look over it behind the paywall basically said that because Federer and Nadal are more respected and “loved” that anything Djokovic did in regards to titles won would be a fruitless pursuit because Federer and Nadal would always be remembered more.

Novak Djokovic: Forever the third man, always the interruptor

It did not take long for Novak Djokovic to send ripples of intrigue through the locker room at his first Wimbledon in 2005. The 18-year-old Serb had won three m

www.thetimes.co.uk

To add salt to the fire…..it’s also rumoured in tennis circles that Federer will be given the keys to the presidential suite of the nearby hotel to Wimbledon while Novak is offered an inferior suite…

Will Djokovic, Williams or Federer be given the Presidential Suite?

Battersea Dogs Home and the American Embassy will be some of the landmarks the players will pass as they are driven through central London en route to the pristine grass courts of SW19.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Big 2 + third wheel.

 

[Jai]

Going by the "popularity" logic, prom Kings should always be considered greater than Class Valedictorians.
But Achievements matter, whatever field you choose.

Besides, the articles claiming Novak "will never" be admired are a complete overkill, devoid of any nuance whatsoever. He may not be as popular as the other two, but he has a large following all the same. There will be plenty to celebrate when he breaks the slam record.

 

[Bartelby]

I'd take the Serbian press over the Sunday Times.

Big 2 + third wheel.

 

[Bartelby]

The Sunday Times is the rag that reported that Nadal is gay one Wimbledon. Talk about cheating the readers!

 

[-snake-]

Consensus among whom? The ignorants with no historical perspective about the sport?

Who the heck would annoint any player, who had 15 years worth of career without a younger generation ATG, the best in anything?

Let it go, man. You're well aware that FEDR spent his peak destroying relatively weak guys until the Nadal came along.

 

[The Guru]

Cool so basically what all the salty reality denying TTW posters say

 

[Jai]

Imagine being SO "insignificant, unpopular and unloved", that fans of your 2 main rivals go into complete paroxysms of fury and denial about your undeniable achievements, and complain that you are not "as loved" as their fave.

 

[NoleIsBoat]

LMAO, so all you have is completely unsourced and unverifiable information. Just like your claims that the locker room says Nadal is GOAT

Also, why would an athlete understate the value of his endorsement deals? It would just hurt them in negotiations with other sponsors

Beckerserve has inside sources bud

 

[Jai]

Beckerserve has inside sources bud

Yes, very deep inside. The voices in his head.

 

[Bartelby]

But after lifting the bar Federer had to beat players five years younger than him. His career effectively ended a year and a half ago, so the other two have a clear run.

Let it go, man. You're well aware that FEDR spent his peak destroying relatively weak guys until the Nadal came along.

 

[daphne]

Illegally evading taxes would make him criminal.

No! Intentionally evading taxes would.

 

[daphne]

were written!!!

Grammar Inspector.

He's got the highest IQ here, you know!?

 

[6august]

An article from the Sunday times ( which requires a paid subscription to read) claims that Djokovic will forever be the third wheel in the Fed-Nadal- Djokovic saga. My friend who was able to look over it behind the paywall basically said that because Federer and Nadal are more respected and “loved” that anything Djokovic did in regards to titles won would be a fruitless pursuit because Federer and Nadal would always be remembered more.

Novak Djokovic: Forever the third man, always the interruptor

It did not take long for Novak Djokovic to send ripples of intrigue through the locker room at his first Wimbledon in 2005. The 18-year-old Serb had won three m

www.thetimes.co.uk

To add salt to the fire…..it’s also rumoured in tennis circles that Federer will be given the keys to the presidential suite of the nearby hotel to Wimbledon while Novak is offered an inferior suite…

Will Djokovic, Williams or Federer be given the Presidential Suite?

Battersea Dogs Home and the American Embassy will be some of the landmarks the players will pass as they are driven through central London en route to the pristine grass courts of SW19.

www.dailymail.co.uk

That's what humankind has always been fighting for: Freedom of Speech.

)))

 

[MichaelNadal]

20 > 19, bud. Being salty won‘t change the facts.

I mean, you're not wrong

 

[T007]

20 > 19, bud. Being salty won‘t change the facts.

So who owns 20 at the moment... May be we are in for 21 in Wimbledon 21

 

[Jai]

So who owns 20 at the moment... May be we are in for 21 in Wimbledon 21

If wishes were horses.....

 

[Nole_King]

Nah, that's the third wheel. Fedal having their little party at the back.

Always remember while Federer and Nadal are making out in the back, it's Djokovic who has his hands on the wheel in the front.

And totally OK with Fedal being more popular, I'm not watching the Miss World paegent here. I am interested in competitive tennis.

Popularity and achievements don't necessarily go hand in hand. It is not just winning slams that makes you popular around the globe as a tennis player (sure it is one of the criteria). Fedal have massive outreach across continents. Their PR machine is much better oiled than Novak's. Also, credit to them for the way they carried themselves which I felt Novak lacked at times. Overcompensating at times has not helped him either. Nothing bad with it. You cannot be everything. Fact is Novak has earned the right to be at the same level as Fedal as far as tennis achievements are concerned and can even surpass them. There's no burying under the sand this truth.

 

[40-15 still haunts me]

I go to Flushing every year. There is talk about statues being built.

Statues of who?

 

[Ogi44]

Whole media has Djokovic 3rd. Now whether the UK media are doing it to wind Djokovic up im not sure but all i see on twitter is Fedal are GOATS by virtue of 20-20-19
Djokovic is the 3rd wheel for now. Media saying what ive been saying for ages.

I will advise you to start to prepare new narrative soon. Focusing so much on slam count will mean that when he breaks also this record, it will be nowhere to hide. Maybe something in the lines of weak competition, Rafa and Roger past his prime, slam count is not the only important metric etc.

 

[SonnyT]

In the tricycle, he's obviously the leading wheel!

 

[Jai]

I will advise you to start to prepare new narrative soon. Focusing so much on slam count will mean that when he breaks also this record, it will be nowhere to hide. Maybe something in the lines of weak competition, Rafa and Roger past his prime, slam count is not the only important metric etc.

Why are you giving him ideas he is anyway inevitably going to go down that route.

 

[mwym]

I will advise you to start to prepare new narrative soon. Focusing so much on slam count will mean that when he breaks also this record, it will be nowhere to hide. Maybe something in the lines of weak competition, Rafa and Roger past his prime, slam count is not the only important metric etc.

Ability to predict unwanted outcome and doing the required in order to avoid it.

Also - level of general cognitive ability sufficient to perform basic abstract thinking, like defined in previous paragraph.

Science have established it as a sad matter of fact it cannot be increased - some FORTY years ago.

Like height. Height is visible, though.

 

[Xavier G]

If Novak is still considered "third wheel", he shouldn't let it bother him.