Medvedev=harder hitting Simon?

2nd Serve Ace

Hall of Fame
My point is the French tennis establishment is more accepting of fugley strokes if they are effective and precise.

DM and GS both have a great economy of motion and the willingness to play different shots. GS actually has a more fluid movement but far less raw power.
 
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el sergento

Hall of Fame
I see the resemblance, but Med is still 100 times less boring to watch than Simon.

Med surprise serves and volleyes, hits whacky droppers, and is a potent Russian Troll.

for a Frenchman, Simon has less flair than a German accountant.
 

guitarra

Professional
Medvedev plays closer to the baseline and has a much much stronger serve both 1st and 2nd. I don't have anything against Gimon but this comparison is slightly derogatory to Medvedev.
 

Sport

Legend
Medvedev plays closer to the baseline and has a much much stronger serve both 1st and 2nd. I don't have anything against Gimon but this comparison is slightly derogatory to Medvedev.
It is COMPLETELY derogatory to compare Medvedev with Simon. Medvedev has 2 Masters 1000 titles and 1 Slam final which he had chances to win. On the other hand, almost no one knows who the hell Simon is. Gilles SImon has 0 Masters 1000 titles, and 0 Slam semifininals.

Some Fed fans have initiated an anti-Medvedev campaign for two reasons:

1. Medvedev was Nadal's rival in the USO final, so admitting Medvedev is a very talented player is implicitly admitting that Nadal had a tough opponent in the final.

2. Because Fed won 3 matches against pre-prime Medvedev, some Fed fans believe Medvedev is just "another" Next Gen player. They even compare Medvedev with Zverev, despite the fact that Zverev has 0 Slam finals.
 

The Green Mile

Bionic Poster
I'd say he has a pretty similar tactical approach, but he has plenty more weapons in his arsenal.
Yeah, starting off with that big free flowing 1st serve, rather difficult to get a read on it, let alone return the damn thing. I've done stats on many of Simon's matches with the big four and most of the time he was around equal numbers with points won over 5 shots, definitely 9 shots. It was the quickfire points where he was really hurt, a big 1st serve or serve/plus one combination, etc. Not exactly eye opening stuff, but it kind of reaffirms the fact that Gilles has still done pretty well without one of the most important shots, even making #6 in the world at one stage.
 

r2473

G.O.A.T.
I've been trying to figure out exactly what he does different from Simon that makes him better.

1) His "bread and butter" rally game is very much like Simon IMO.
2) Obviously, he has a better first serve.
3) He seems to take offense more readily when he has the advantage in the rally.....I think. But "prime Simon" did this too. He wasn't just a backboard. Gilles can crush it when he wants to.

I don't know. Anybody else have some ideas?
 

Zetty

Professional
It is COMPLETELY derogatory to compare Medvedev with Simon. Medvedev has 2 Masters 1000 titles and 1 Slam final which he had chances to win. On the other hand, almost no one knows who the hell Simon is. Gilles SImon has 0 Masters 1000 titles, and 0 Slam semifininals.

Some Fed fans have initiated an anti-Medvedev campaign for two reasons:

1. Medvedev was Nadal's rival in the USO final, so admitting Medvedev is a very talented player is implicitly admitting that Nadal had a tough opponent in the final.

2. Because Fed won 3 matches against pre-prime Medvedev, some Fed fans believe Medvedev is just "another" Next Gen player. They even compare Medvedev with Zverev, despite the fact that Zverev has 0 Slam finals.
He's beaten Nadal tho, get on that level Med
 

Sysyphus

Talk Tennis Guru
It is COMPLETELY derogatory to compare Medvedev with Simon. Medvedev has 2 Masters 1000 titles and 1 Slam final which he had chances to win. On the other hand, almost no one knows who the hell Simon is. Gilles SImon has 0 Masters 1000 titles, and 0 Slam semifininals.

Ned devotee, you are committing a logical fallacy.

You can validly compare and draw comparisons between their styles of play without presupposing that they must be equally talented or successful. Do not cheat readers with such red herrings.
 

tacou

G.O.A.T.
I see the resemblance, but Med is still 100 times less boring to watch than Simon.

Med surprise serves and volleyes, hits whacky droppers, and is a potent Russian Troll.

for a Frenchman, Simon has less flair than a German accountant.
I feel like you haven't watched Simon play much, which is fine, because he often *is* "boring", but he hits all sorts of improv touch shots as well as wicked angle winners.

It is COMPLETELY derogatory to compare Medvedev with Simon. Medvedev has 2 Masters 1000 titles and 1 Slam final which he had chances to win. On the other hand, almost no one knows who the hell Simon is. Gilles SImon has 0 Masters 1000 titles, and 0 Slam semifininals.

Some Fed fans have initiated an anti-Medvedev campaign for two reasons:

1. Medvedev was Nadal's rival in the USO final, so admitting Medvedev is a very talented player is implicitly admitting that Nadal had a tough opponent in the final.

2. Because Fed won 3 matches against pre-prime Medvedev, some Fed fans believe Medvedev is just "another" Next Gen player. They even compare Medvedev with Zverev, despite the fact that Zverev has 0 Slam finals.
Bit of an overreaction. Firstly, players can have similar styles and yield different results. Second, Gilles was No. 6 in the world, won 14 career titles, made two M1000 finals, and has wins over each of the Big 4, including leaving Federer in the RR stage at WTF. If someone doesn't know who Simon is, they don't know very much about tennis.
 
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Meles

Bionic Poster
@Meles told me this a bit over a year ago about this comparison, having not watched Medvedev play since early/mid 2017 (I thought his tennis was disgusting back then). I thought he was crazy ;) , but Medvedev was indeed transforming from that irritable ball basher with fugly technique to a very crafty and intelligent player.
Wow hate to love Greenie?:p I loved early Simon when he went to like 6. Medly's strokes don't seem anywhere near as smooth, but Simon considered very unorthodox as well. Did you get to see their collision in Queen's? Pretty weird grass court tennis.;)
 

The Green Mile

Bionic Poster
Wow hate to love Greenie?:p I loved early Simon when he went to like 6. Medly's strokes don't seem anywhere near as smooth, but Simon considered very unorthodox as well. Did you get to see their collision in Queen's? Pretty weird grass court tennis.;)
Yeah, I absolutely loved it. All his matches that week were really fun, most points ever in a match at Queens with Mahut, one of Kev's comeback match, the close final with Lopez (had 0-30 at 4-4 3rd set IIRC, honestly thought he'd get it), etc.
 

Meles

Bionic Poster
Yeah, I absolutely loved it. All his matches that week were really fun, most points ever in a match at Queens with Mahut, one of Kev's comeback match, the close final with Lopez (had 0-30 at 4-4 3rd set IIRC, honestly thought he'd get it), etc.
What about Medly?:cry:
 
It is COMPLETELY derogatory to compare Medvedev with Simon. Medvedev has 2 Masters 1000 titles and 1 Slam final which he had chances to win. On the other hand, almost no one knows who the hell Simon is. Gilles SImon has 0 Masters 1000 titles, and 0 Slam semifininals.

Some Fed fans have initiated an anti-Medvedev campaign for two reasons:

1. Medvedev was Nadal's rival in the USO final, so admitting Medvedev is a very talented player is implicitly admitting that Nadal had a tough opponent in the final.

2. Because Fed won 3 matches against pre-prime Medvedev, some Fed fans believe Medvedev is just "another" Next Gen player. They even compare Medvedev with Zverev, despite the fact that Zverev has 0 Slam finals.
Come on. I get making a slam final is big, especially considering the wait we have been on for a young gen to break through.

However, comparing Zverev vs Med Bear is not a bad comparison. You can even argue that Zverev who is over a year younger has had mor success.

Zverev: 11 titles (3 masters on 2 surfaces, WTF on indoor). Been ranked number 3.

Med Bear: 7 titles (two masters on hard). Highest rank of 4.

Easily comparable. One slam final appearance does not trump everything Zverev has done.

Now, with this being said, Med Bear looks to be able to sustain this and has looked to turn a corner. But this has nothing to do with Fed. I want Med Bear to be good, he is good for tennis.
 

stringertom

Bionic Poster
My point is the French tennis establishment is more accepting of fugley strokes if they are effective and precise.

DM and GS both have a great economy of motion and the willingness to play different shots. GS actually has a more fluid movement but far less raw power.
That’s way too generalized, especially when you factor in Medvedev eschewed the French “factories” in favor of a coach that flunked out of said “factories.” Gilles Cervara played a grand total of 10 pro matches before trying his hand at coaching. He is French by birth but decidedly not French between the ears or in any affiliation to FFT, the real French “factory.”

Are we going to label Tsitsipas as a “French” player because of his longer tenure at Mouratoglou’s nearby academy on the Cote d’Azur???

Med has more French in him due to French companies Technifibre and Lacoste but then we would risk calling Isner a Frenchman due to wearing the Lacoste and playing Technifibre strings. Same for retired ARod, who made beaucoup d’argent pour Babolat et Lacoste.
 

2nd Serve Ace

Hall of Fame
Tried to do a picture, but Med and Simo have such a knuckles forward lead hand on the BH that I can't help think it was a commonly taught approach.
 
Ned devotee, you are committing a logical fallacy.

You can validly compare and draw comparisons between their styles of play without presupposing that they must be equally talented or successful. Do not cheat readers with such red herrings.
You forgot to begin this otherwise excellent takedown with the phrase, “I’m sorry but this is a very unobjective post.”
 
It is COMPLETELY derogatory to compare Medvedev with Simon. Medvedev has 2 Masters 1000 titles and 1 Slam final which he had chances to win. On the other hand, almost no one knows who the hell Simon is. Gilles SImon has 0 Masters 1000 titles, and 0 Slam semifininals.

Some Fed fans have initiated an anti-Medvedev campaign for two reasons:

1. Medvedev was Nadal's rival in the USO final, so admitting Medvedev is a very talented player is implicitly admitting that Nadal had a tough opponent in the final.

2. Because Fed won 3 matches against pre-prime Medvedev, some Fed fans believe Medvedev is just "another" Next Gen player. They even compare Medvedev with Zverev, despite the fact that Zverev has 0 Slam finals.
I’m sorry, but this is a very unobjective post. To be scientific, one must construct a testable theory that is falsifiable. That is, you assert that “some Fed fans” have some motivations. However, you do not tell us which other possible motivations you considered in your analysis.

One must also cite one’s source data. Please tell us how you know the motivation of “some Fed fans.” Did you do a focus group? Interviews? Surveys? I would like to replicate your data so as to test your hypothesis and put it on a more objective scientific footing, or to falsify it and allow us to come up with a less subjective theory.
 

stringertom

Bionic Poster
I’m sorry, but this is a very unobjective post. To be scientific, one must construct a testable theory that is falsifiable. That is, you assert that “some Fed fans” have some motivations. However, you do not tell us which other possible motivations you considered in your analysis.

One must also cite one’s source data. Please tell us how you know the motivation of “some Fed fans.” Did you do a focus group? Interviews? Surveys? I would like to replicate your data so as to test your hypothesis and put it on a more objective scientific footing, or to falsify it and allow us to come up with a less subjective theory.
Donut use logic in GPPD. As Lost In Space’s robot used to say, “That does not compute!”
 

stringertom

Bionic Poster
This thread reminds me of the very old and, as a result, unattributable comment that “fedr is like a poor man’s Santoro with a better serve.”

I still crack up thinking about that comparison!
 

Tommy Haas

Hall of Fame
I don't know. I like watching Simon because he always puts up a good fight even though he can never beat top players. I also like his smooth backhand over Med's disjointed backhand. However, there's still no uglier backhand than Venus' open stance samurai sword swing.
 

Robert Baratheon

Professional
The individual that you are wishing to emulate, which is the very same individual that we are currently referring to and discussing in this particular context, has a propensity to forgo vocabulary of the ornate kind when interfacing with her digital portal to this virtual location dedicated to suppressed speech about all things that are related to the pastime and / or profession of tennis, showing preference in its stead to keep the upper ambit of her diction below the boundary wherein the language of the plebeians ends and the verbiage of the patricians commences. It is for the aforementioned raison d'être that triggers my inclination to advise you that your written simulation of the said individual, with the utmost of respect due or not due, whilst most admirable in its clear demonstration of your linguistic endeavour, is sh*t.

Edit: removed a word for clarity
:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
 

zipplock

Rookie
I think Med may become Lendl 2.0. Not from a playing style perspective, but from a tennis villain perspective. Both good players, winners the crowd likes to root against. Very sarcastic, dry sense of humor and speak a biting truth.
 

smalahove

Hall of Fame
Simon is a pure counter-pusher.
If you watch his technique, you'll see he rotates his upper body in sync with his arm(s) with almost no lag at all, windmill-style. He's a good player for sure, but compared to Med he lacks the ability to really accelerate through the ball. Med otoh, seems to be super jangly, but he manages to get a lot of body weight on the ball, an accelerate through; just look at how he wraps his arm around his neck :)
 

UnderratedSlam

Hall of Fame
D. Medvedev to me plays exactly like G. Simon, but is much bigger and hits harder.

Maybe the "French" influence? (Medvedev moved to France when he was 9)
The French school is a pushing school?

No.

Simon is not a typical French player at all.

Do Tsonga, Paire, Forget, Leconte, Chardy, Pouille, Escude, Gasquet, Grosjean push?

The French school has variety.
 

Shaolin

G.O.A.T.
I've been trying to figure out exactly what he does different from Simon that makes him better.

1) His "bread and butter" rally game is very much like Simon IMO.
2) Obviously, he has a better first serve.
3) He seems to take offense more readily when he has the advantage in the rally.....I think. But "prime Simon" did this too. He wasn't just a backboard. Gilles can crush it when he wants to.

I don't know. Anybody else have some ideas?
He hits bigger off the ground, has a way bigger serve and has far more fight in him. Also he's not a Frenchman.

These things are more than enough to separate him by miles from Simon.
 

r2473

G.O.A.T.
He hits bigger off the ground, has a way bigger serve and has far more fight in him. Also he's not a Frenchman.

These things are more than enough to separate him by miles from Simon.
Simon hits big when he wants to and has lots of fight. The serve part is true.
 

UnderratedSlam

Hall of Fame
He hits bigger off the ground, has a way bigger serve and has far more fight in him. Also he's not a Frenchman.

These things are more than enough to separate him by miles from Simon.
Especially this.

Despite the huge talent over the decades France has had, the most a French player has done so far is win 2 M1000s and reach a slam finale, Tsonga.
 

Robert Baratheon

Professional
Ned devotee, you are committing a logical fallacy.

You can validly compare and draw comparisons between their styles of play without presupposing that they must be equally talented or successful. Do not cheat readers with such red herrings.
On this assemblage in the non-physical yet more than real terrain of related and consanguineous documents which can be displayed in software applications which are used to locate, retrieve and display content on the World Wide Web such as Firefox, Google Chrome, Opera, Microsoft Internet Explorer or Edge, or Apple's Safari and are located under a single domain name which functions on the essentiality that the entities-- that have authority to use the application, facility, or system, or ones who consume the service to obtain a benefit or to solve a problem, and who may or may not be the actual purchaser of the item-- share or have certain attitudes and leisure pursuits in common and in this particular sequence of responses to an initial message poasting, you have presented with such peculiar symptoms; unheard of and in a class of their own; symptoms which wretched my noggin and quite possibly the noggins of a few more lingering in this godforsaken cyberspace; symptoms which give conception to a throbbing, discomfort-engendering, sneaking suspicion in my frontal lobe that you might be the love child of one all-consuming, truth sermonizing, obsessively fanatical devotee of the hobbledehoy of Mallorca and another oat-loving, obstinate, unaccommodating man-child whose pioneered vernacular of the English language you appear to be fraudulently imitating.
 

Alexh22

Rookie
Med will be 10x the player Simon can ever become. He has so many weapons and he makes very few errors which make him hard to beat.
 

ron schaap

Professional
That’s way too generalized, especially when you factor in Medvedev eschewed the French “factories” in favor of a coach that flunked out of said “factories.” Gilles Cervara played a grand total of 10 pro matches before trying his hand at coaching. He is French by birth but decidedly not French between the ears or in any affiliation to FFT, the real French “factory.”

Are we going to label Tsitsipas as a “French” player because of his longer tenure at Mouratoglou’s nearby academy on the Cote d’Azur???

Med has more French in him due to French companies Technifibre and Lacoste but then we would risk calling Isner a Frenchman due to wearing the Lacoste and playing Technifibre strings. Same for retired ARod, who made beaucoup d’argent pour Babolat et Lacoste.
In the past the European royalty and upper class spoke French to seperate themself from normal folks. That s why the Russian word for bicycle is close to the French counterpart. In fact higher European royalty was all related to each other, which was one factor leading to World war 1. Ces toutes.
 

stringertom

Bionic Poster
In the past the European royalty and upper class spoke French to seperate themself from normal folks. That s why the Russian word for bicycle is close to the French counterpart. In fact higher European royalty was all related to each other, which was one factor leading to World war 1. Ces toutes.
Victoria, House of Hanover, married her cousin Prince Albert of Saxe-Coburg and became the grandmother of European royalty and the hereditary source of rampant hemophilia within the continent’s monarchies.
 

stringertom

Bionic Poster
On this assemblage in the non-physical yet more than real terrain of related and consanguineous documents which can be displayed in software applications which are used to locate, retrieve and display content on the World Wide Web such as Firefox, Google Chrome, Opera, Microsoft Internet Explorer or Edge, or Apple's Safari and are located under a single domain name which functions on the essentiality that the entities-- that have authority to use the application, facility, or system, or ones who consume the service to obtain a benefit or to solve a problem, and who may or may not be the actual purchaser of the item-- share or have certain attitudes and leisure pursuits in common and in this particular sequence of responses to an initial message poasting, you have presented with such peculiar symptoms; unheard of and in a class of their own; symptoms which wretched my noggin and quite possibly the noggins of a few more lingering in this godforsaken cyberspace; symptoms which give conception to a throbbing, discomfort-engendering, sneaking suspicion in my frontal lobe that you might be the love child of one all-consuming, truth sermonizing, obsessively fanatical devotee of the hobbledehoy of Mallorca and another oat-loving, obstinate, unaccommodating man-child whose pioneered vernacular of the English language you appear to be fraudulently imitating.
TLDR; please follow KISS protocol (Keep It Short & Simple) so Luddite Army can follow orders.
 
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