Medvedev has randomly become underrated

[Third Serve]

What if he makes the final? Lives up to his seeding?
Would you still says he is overrated?

We’re at the point where they need to be winning Slams, basically.

 

[Blahovic]

It's amazing how awful the discourse is on this forum. I post something on Medvedev and somehow it's another Federer vs Djokovic flame war in seconds.

Also, a lot of people are being very strong about Medvedev not being a contender on grass when he has won several marches in a row on the surface. He didn't play in grass for 2 years, there hasn't been much time to build up a record.

 

[dudeski]

As clueless as always.

Med would eat Bull for breakfast. I hope they meet in the USO.

That can only happen is Nadal wins some matches to get to Q at USO. Why would you want that? Why would you want Nadal to win a single point, or a single game, a single set, let alone a match, and especially multiple matches!?!?

 

[UnforcedTerror]

Zed is epic too, I know.

 

[SonnyT]

Since '04 until very recently, #1 and #2 rankings had always been occupied by two of B4, and who had won multiple slams!

So if anything, Med is overrated!

 

[UnforcedTerror]

That can only happen is Nadal wins some matches to get to Q at USO. Why would you want that? Why would you want Nadal to win a single point, or a single game, a single set, let alone a match, and especially multiple matches!?!?

If Bull can't win a couple of matches by beating mugs, it would get boring quickly. Let him make the second weeks so we can enjoy watching him getting destroyed by better players. See the AO match against the Greek God, that was epic, no?

 

[BeatlesFan]

Nadal is questionable right now though. We have no idea how he will fare on hard courts for the rest of this year. That french open defeat will no doubt have had an affect mentally on the Spainard.

No doubt! But I was addressing someone who claimed Medvedev is the worthy #2 in tennis and I refuted that with facts. Nadal is #2 with no argument against that.

Nobody on the planet puts Med as #2 going into a slam final. Does someone like Zverev, Thiem, Shapo of Felix want to face the Russian in the USO final or Rafa?

 

[BeatlesFan]

Med's title at the ATP Finals is way more impressive than many slams

Using this "logic," then Nadal is a POS historically speaking because he has no YEC title. Yet you speak of the YEC being "way more impressive than MANY slams."

Do enlighten us on which slams those are.

Is it AO? RG? Wimbledon (please....) or the USO? In which parallel universe is the YEC "way more impressive" than a slam?

Which slam?

Be specific.

I notice when I call out the little kids in these threads they run hope crying to mommy's apron strings and choke on their answer, thus not giving one, because there is no logical retort. This is isn't Tik Tok or some 6th grade play we're engaged it, it's tennis history.

Again: which slam is less impressive than a YEC title? Dying to hear the response, which will not be forthcoming.

 

[Djokovic_is_the_best#1]

No doubt! But I was addressing someone who claimed Medvedev is the worthy #2 in tennis and I refuted that with facts. Nadal is #2 with no argument against that.

Nobody on the planet puts Med as #2 going into a slam final. Does someone like Zverev, Thiem, Shapo of Felix want to face the Russian in the USO final or Rafa?

The reason Nadal is no2 in the race is mainly due to clay though. It remains to be seen whether Rafa still has the hard court game to reach us open or Australia finals. We can never rule him out but at Australia 2021 clearly tsitsipas preferred Rafa. He beat Rafa in the quarters then got thrashed by Meddy in the semi final. If that translates to us open as well then more players would rather face Rafa than Med.

Rafa of course due to his track record can never be written off. If he’s going to do well at another slam outside the french again it’s likely the us open. Still a lot has changed in 2 years with Meddy getting better on hard courts and Rafa declining. We will see how both look later in year.

If Rafa is struggling to win on clay in a year it normally doesn’t bode well for the rest of his season. He’s a great champion though so hes capable of turning it around but at 35 with a body that’s breaking down more it won’t be easy.

 

[BeatlesFan]

Rafa of course due to his track record can never be written off. If he’s going to do well at another slam outside the french again it’s likely the us open. Still a lot has changed in 2 years with Meddy getting better on hard courts and Rafa declining. We will see how both look later in year.

Conveniently not addressing my salient point: assume you're next gen at the USO. Who do you want to face... Rafa (who has won 4 USO's) or a choking Med who has done f-cking nothing in slam finals? I don't care if Rafa is 35 and in a wheelchair, his mental strength is 1,000 what Med's ever will be.

And I am waiting the response from the genius who claimed the YEC is "way more impressive than any slam." I'm sick and tired of people posting whatever the hell they want when it has no basis in reality. They are too stupid or inexperienced to refute any logical remark, as is typical with the social media gen. Let this Einstein post, "Um, like gee, the YEC is like fire compared to whatever slam their (sic) is, whatever."

 

[Hamnavoe]

I don't care if Rafa is 35 and in a wheelchair, his mental strength is 1,000 what Med's ever will be.

I'm sick and tired of people posting whatever the hell they want when it has no basis in reality.

 

[TennisFan3]

The reason Nadal is no2 in the race is mainly due to clay though. It remains to be seen whether Rafa still has the hard court game to reach us open or Australia finals. We can never rule him out but at Australia 2021 clearly tsitsipas preferred Rafa. He beat Rafa in the quarters then got thrashed by Meddy in the semi final. If that translates to us open as well then more players would rather face Rafa than Med.

Rafa of course due to his track record can never be written off. If he’s going to do well at another slam outside the french again it’s likely the us open. Still a lot has changed in 2 years with Meddy getting better on hard courts and Rafa declining. We will see how both look later in year.

If Rafa is struggling to win on clay in a year it normally doesn’t bode well for the rest of his season. He’s a great champion though so hes capable of turning it around but at 35 with a body that’s breaking down more it won’t be easy.

All these reasons are good. Medvedev is probably MORE CONSISTENT than Nadal on Hards.
That said, Nadal is FAR MORE dangerous at the slam level. The problem for Med/Titsp/Zverev etc is they have NEVER won a slam.
So come a final of the slam almost everyone would want to face next gen vs facing Nadal. The big 3 can elevate their games in slams. And in a slam final a big 3 NEVER loses to a non-big 3 opponent.

Even in Wimbledon - ask Djokovic who he would rather face in the final between Med/Zed/Fed. I'm sure he will pick Zed/Med.
In a slam final at 40 yr old Fed is more dangerous than a next gen who has NEVER won a slam.

 

[Djokovic_is_the_best#1]

Conveniently not addressing my salient point: assume you're next gen at the USO. Who do you want to face... Rafa (who has won 4 USO's) or a choking Med who has done f-cking nothing in slam finals? I don't care if Rafa is 35 and in a wheelchair, his mental strength is 1,000 what Med's ever will be.

And I am waiting the response from the genius who claimed the YEC is "way more impressive than any slam." I'm sick and tired of people posting whatever the hell they want when it has no basis in reality. They are too stupid or inexperienced to refute any logical remark, as is typical with the social media gen. Let this Einstein post, "Um, like gee, the YEC is like fire compared to whatever slam their (sic) is, whatever."

I agree that of course Rafa has the better mental strength and obviously experience on his side. I’m just pointing out at this stage in both these guys careers on hard courts Medvedev might become the harder opponent for many more players. If Rafa can reinvent himself, improve his level and his stamina again then I’d take him still. However, that remains to be seen and right now if we played the us open I wouldn’t be surprised if Medvedev had the better tournament. We are only in July though and a lot can change before end of August.

Meddy has a very good game for hard courts and obviously has youth on his side. He’s improved his stamina more as he’s winning more longer matches now. I feel he has grown as player and will only get better.

We can’t be sure what will happen with Rafa on hard courts. He’s not as confident on the surface as he used to be. He beat Meddy in 5 sets in 2019 us open but a lot has changed in 2 years I feel. It will be interesting to see what happens.

It wouldn’t surprise me if a next generation player like Medvedev wins the us open. As I doubt Djokovic will win them all as he bound to falter at somepoint and he more vulnerable at us open. Rafa hard court game not as strong as it was and Fed very unlikely to win the us open again. The us open has always been the most open slam so it’s the most likely one we could see a new winner again.

 

[Djokovic_is_the_best#1]

All these reasons are good. Medvedev is probably MORE CONSISTENT than Nadal on Hards.
That said, Nadal is FAR MORE dangerous at the slam level. The problem for Med/Titsp/Zverev etc is they have NEVER won a slam.
So come a final of the slam almost everyone would want to face next gen vs facing Nadal. The big 3 can elevate their games in slams. And in a slam final a big 3 NEVER loses to a non-big 3 opponent.

Even in Wimbledon - ask Djokovic who he would rather face in the final between Med/Zed/Fed. I'm sure he will pick Zed/Med.
In a slam final at 40 yr old Fed is more dangerous than a next gen who has NEVER won a slam.

That will change soon though. Eventually the next gen will take over it’s just a matter of when. At the moment it’s only Novak holding them off but once he can’t then they will start to win more. I just hope Djokovic can hold them off a little longer to get that slam record then that will do haha

Medvedev, Zverev and tsitsipas aren’t far away. They all better on different surfaces but their time will come. Djokovic isn’t going to keep winning everything and Fed and Nadal are starting to slow down a lot more now. Djoko is declining too but at a much slower rate compared to Fed and Rafa. As we know though Father Time gets even the greatest ever players in the end. It waits for no one.

Still even when the next gen do breakthrough I wouldn’t say that’s the end of the big 3. Provided they still healthy and hungry they have amazing bounce back abilities. Especially Djokovic and Nadal so we can’t write them off. The same goes for Fed until he hangs up the racquet. They will still compete for majors until they had enough or their bodies breakdown. I will always say the us open is the most open slam and the best chance for a next gen slam win.

A Djokovic v Federer Wimbledon final could happen again but I do think the next gen players have a good chance to prevent that final from happening.

 

[skip1969]

This season he's had his best AO result (and his 2nd slam final), his best RG result and now his best Wimbledon result (with a tough draw too - Stuff and Cilic in the first 3 rounds is insanely tough for a 2nd seed).

He even has a small chance of making the final of Wimbledon.

He's #2 in the world.

He took a big L from Djokovic in the AO final, but that can happen to a less experienced player against one of the GOATs. People seemed to dismiss him after that, but look at how Murray and Thiem progressively improved at the slams.

He's still a great player who's clearly improving on the biggest stages.

How can the No 2 player in the world "become underrated?" Everyone knows who he is and what he can do. He is seeded 2 at Wimbledon.

Are you talking about his actual tennis credentials or are you talking about the fact that he's just not a very popular No 2? I think a lot of you poasters can't distinguish these two very different things.

 

[TennisFan3]

LMFAO! IF a player as basic and average as Wawrinka is a bad match-up in the first place for Djokovic, then maybe Djokovic is not qualified of becoming the greatest, period. Djokovic at his peak beats everyone and wins every slam, but the moment he meets Wawrinka, such as in the 2015 Roland Garros final, reality very quickly sets in and all of a sudden, he is no greater than Federer, Nadal or any other past all-time great player. The moment he meets Wawrinka, is the moment all of a sudden his amazing backhand or his amazing defense or his amazing everything else is nowhere to be seen. The only thing can be seen is Wawrinka crushing Djokovic like a Serbian little bug.

And if Wawrinka can do this to prime Djokovic, Djokovic has 0 hope against peak Federer who by the way, can do everything Wawrinka can do but better plus more. So even by match-up, Djokovic has no chance against peak Federer.

Matchups do NOT work that way.
Just because Fed > Wawrinka does NOT mean that Novak will have more problems with Fed.
Nadal struggled with Davy/Nalby and easily beat players better/higher ranked than them. Similarly he would struggle vs Fog but beat better players than the Italian.

The proof is in the pudding. Novak BEAT peak Fed. Repeatedly. Novak also has beaten Fed thrice at Wimbledon. And it could be 4 times next Sunday. Wawrinka always gave Novak trouble everywhere. Even in the AO, where Nadal and Fed haven't been able to touch Novak.

Having ONE NEMESIS doesn't detract from the greatness of Novak. Wawrinka was NEVER as good against the field. Novak made the most of his opportunities. He won 17 slams since entering his peak. And during that time he has HEAVILY dominated both Fed and Nadal. And in the first half of that period, Fed was in his prime.

I know Novak's personality and game style does NOT appeal to everyone. He is not universally admired. But the fact that he is a special player who has been better than Fed/Nadal is undeniable. The numbers prove it incontrovertibally.
And if he achieves the CYGS this year there will be no room to even discuss.

 

[duaneeo]

Having ONE NEMESIS doesn't detract from the greatness of Novak.

A player as "great" as Nole shouldn't have allowed a Stan Wawrinka (a player he had beaten fourteen consecutive times) to suddenly become his nemesis.

 

[gadge]

This is false and provably so.

Nadal in 2021 has won Barcelona (500), Rome (Masters 1000) and made the semis of RG.

Med in 2021 has won Marseilles (250) and Mallorca (250) and made the final of AO, where he was utterly destroyed.

Nadal has clearly had the better year and is thus the second best player on tour. Ask yourself this: which player would anyone in the USO draw rather face in a final there-- Rafa or Med?

Med also won the ATP cup and Paris and WTF last year. People completely forget he was in some form prior to that AO final.

 

[beltsman]

This season he's had his best AO result (and his 2nd slam final), his best RG result and now his best Wimbledon result (with a tough draw too - Stuff and Cilic in the first 3 rounds is insanely tough for a 2nd seed).

He even has a small chance of making the final of Wimbledon.

He's #2 in the world.

He took a big L from Djokovic in the AO final, but that can happen to a less experienced player against one of the GOATs. People seemed to dismiss him after that, but look at how Murray and Thiem progressively improved at the slams.

He's still a great player who's clearly improving on the biggest stages.

Dude blew everything by rolling over at AO. Until he redeems that, I'll ignore him.

 

[Deleted member 770948]

Medvedev is a Loser.
We saw at the AO, he was in career-best form........and played one of the worst slam finals ever.
He needs to retire, as soon as possible........or he'll block the path of a more worthy finalist.

 

[MichaelNadal]

 

[darthrafa]

one-side defeat in AO final shows that he is rather overrated instead. best RG result and now his best Wimbledon result just reflects he played quite badly, rather than in progress.

 

[Ganstaz003]

Matchups do NOT work that way.
Just because Fed > Wawrinka does NOT mean that Novak will have more problems with Fed.
Nadal struggled with Davy/Nalby and easily beat players better/higher ranked than them. Similarly he would struggle vs Fog but beat better players than the Italian.

The proof is in the pudding. Novak BEAT peak Fed. Repeatedly. Novak also has beaten Fed thrice at Wimbledon. And it could be 4 times next Sunday. Wawrinka always gave Novak trouble everywhere. Even in the AO, where Nadal and Fed haven't been able to touch Novak.

Having ONE NEMESIS doesn't detract from the greatness of Novak. Wawrinka was NEVER as good against the field. Novak made the most of his opportunities. He won 17 slams since entering his peak. And during that time he has HEAVILY dominated both Fed and Nadal. And in the first half of that period, Fed was in his prime.

I know Novak's personality and game style does NOT appeal to everyone. He is not universally admired. But the fact that he is a special player who has been better than Fed/Nadal is undeniable. The numbers prove it incontrovertibally.
And if he achieves the CYGS this year there will be no room to even discuss.

It's not just because Federer > Wawrinka that Djokovic will have more problems with Fed. That's a strawman! It's because peak Federer is already everything that peak Stanislas Wawrinka already is, plus more with an even more upgraded game. There is absolutely nothing peak Wawrinka can do which peak Federer could not also replicate to similarly demolish peak Djokovic. Peak Federer has a single-handed back-hand, much like Stan. Both can blast opponents off the court in similar fashion at their peak. Both have big forehands at their peak. Federer has the superior serve. But the biggest difference between the two here stylistically, is peak Federer can not only blast you off the court, but also finesse you off the court whereas peak Wawrinka could only blast his opponents off the court.

For the very reason why peak Stan is a horrible match-up for peak Djokovic, is the same reason why peak Federer would also be.

And LMFAO at Novak beating peak Federer. Peak Federer was in the 2006. Or in 2004 or 2005. The only time both played closest to their best, Federer beat Djokovic both times. See 2011 Roland Garros and Wimbledon 2012. Even in 2011 US Open match, Federer outplayed Djokovic but choked on vital points. After that, Federer's reflexes, hand-eye coordination and his explosiveness slowly started diminishing. That is when Djokovic started beating Federer frequently.

And the numbers prove nothing incontrovertibly. Numbers prove Federer was the best among his peers and contemporaries in his own age-range. Numbers also prove how pathetic today's generation is that old grandpa Federer is challenging peak Djokovic in slams more than any of the youngsters.