Men earn massively more than women in tennis!

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by Bartelby, Jul 14, 2018 at 4:07 AM.

  1. Bartelby

    Bartelby Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2005
    Messages:
    25,088
    Location:
    Freedonia
    For all those deluded people who see the slams and think equal pay is the rule in tennis there is 'real news'.

    You are wrong.

    And although the pattern is more complicated than you might think it does reflect the market:

    So far in 2018, 71 per cent of the world’s top 100 men have earned more than women of the same ranking, based on prize money per tournament played.

    The data, though, suggests viewing figures are not gender based but determined by individual performance and personality.


    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/ng-interactive/2018/jul/14/tennis-pay-gap-shouldnt-be-gender-based
     
    emilyhex and Aussie Darcy like this.
    #1
  2. Firstservingman

    Firstservingman G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2014
    Messages:
    18,724
    Location:
    Canberra, Australia
    Well, equal pay is only at the slams, no?
    I thought that was common knowledge.

    Elsewhere they're seperate tours and set their own figures, presumably based on earnings from ticket sales and stuff. I don't think that's unreasonable.
     
    #2
  3. Tennis_Hands

    Tennis_Hands G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2009
    Messages:
    17,219
    Location:
    Inside the service box - the business end
    So.... what does the market say?

    :eek:
     
    vandre and tusharlovesrafa like this.
    #3
  4. YetAnotherFedFan

    YetAnotherFedFan Legend

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2014
    Messages:
    5,807
    Location:
    Looking for tennis ball in the foliage
    Heaven forbid!!

    Female Supermodels earn 10x more than male models!

    Male footballers earn 800x more than female footballers!

    But let’s use tennis as the epicentre to argue about all the perceived gender inequalities in this world.
     
    La Grande, Lew, merwy and 25 others like this.
    #4
  5. Aussie Darcy

    Aussie Darcy Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2015
    Messages:
    25,397
    Location:
    Brisbane, Australia
    Some tournaments award equal pay like Indian Wells and Miami whilst tournaments like Rome, Cincy and Dubai don't. I dare say that the popularity of Serena and Venus has helped award equal pay at some American events. Cincy doesn't though. Although the men are Masters1000 and the women are Premier 5, the women earn almost half the men do...
     
    Firstservingman likes this.
    #5
  6. YetAnotherFedFan

    YetAnotherFedFan Legend

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2014
    Messages:
    5,807
    Location:
    Looking for tennis ball in the foliage
    Maybe that’s OP’s secret agenda!?
     
    Power Player, Zardoz7/12 and Sentinel like this.
    #6
  7. Aussie Darcy

    Aussie Darcy Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2015
    Messages:
    25,397
    Location:
    Brisbane, Australia
    Last time I checked this was a tennis forum not a model or football forum?
     
    Sentinel and van_Loederen like this.
    #7
  8. Firstservingman

    Firstservingman G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2014
    Messages:
    18,724
    Location:
    Canberra, Australia
    Any idea what they base it on? I'm assuming ticket sales or something, but maybe it's fixed? I'd be interested to see how the pay ratio compares to ticket sales ratio.
     
    #8
  9. Aussie Darcy

    Aussie Darcy Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2015
    Messages:
    25,397
    Location:
    Brisbane, Australia
    Would be fascinating to know. The only sort of figures of revenue that get posted here are of the entire tour and are from 2014. No information on individual tournaments that i've found. I guess it's hard to measure. The Auckland tournament director discussed how the year Li Na played the viewership was through the roof and dominated the male viewership. Depends on each nation, who you have playing, viewership etc.
     
    Firstservingman likes this.
    #9
  10. Firstservingman

    Firstservingman G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2014
    Messages:
    18,724
    Location:
    Canberra, Australia
    Yeah. I bet Serena brings in more revenue at the US Open than most of the men. It's definitely a product of more factors than gender. I think nationality would be the biggest, at least after the ATG superstars like Fedalovic
     
    #10
  11. maratha_warrior

    maratha_warrior Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2014
    Messages:
    779
    Ladies demanding the same amount of pay as much as Federer vs Rafa / Djoker slam final is ridiculous ..
    I wud pay to watch Women models not Male models..
    And pay to watch Fed vs Nole vs rafa .. Dont know where is Sexism here ?
     
    VaporDude95 likes this.
    #11
  12. tennisaddict

    tennisaddict Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2009
    Messages:
    29,749
    You have a separate tour for yourself WTA. Offer players as much as you can afford. Who is stopping you ??
     
    #12
  13. BringBackWood

    BringBackWood Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2017
    Messages:
    443
    Its called the free market. These clowns accept it in every other walk of life. Tennis is an entertainment industry. The men entertain more than the women. In some industries, it is the other way.
     
    Cenarius, VaporDude95 and TennisDawg like this.
    #13
  14. Aussie Darcy

    Aussie Darcy Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2015
    Messages:
    25,397
    Location:
    Brisbane, Australia
    Demanding the same pay? They already have the same pay at slams. Do your research thanks.
     
    #14
  15. parvasedpotens

    parvasedpotens Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2018
    Messages:
    139
    Location:
    Turku, Finland
    I played at a high level. I am female. I made money playing tennis. Not enough to retire on, but a decent amount.
    I suppose we all wish we earned more, no matter if we are ranked 450th or we are Roger Federer.
    The truth is far more complex.
    In an ideal world, more people would be interested in women's tennis, and the pay would be equivalent. In the past, Graf, Evert and others often outdrew the men.
    Right now, the WTA does not outdraw the ATP.
    I do not have the answer as to how to fix. Here are some suggestions that may or may not improve the product.
    1 at the Slams, women should be best of 5 sets. Fitness must be rewarded.
    2 reduce shrieking. It is embarrassing and a turn off.
    3 change court surface speeds to reward all court play (I. E. grass should be fast, clay slow, hard courts semi fast) Women can volley as well as men, let's see that!
    4 promote good personalities.
    5 we need announcers with panache. It cannot be underrated what a Bud Collins did for the promotion of women's tennis. We need more like this today.

    At the end of the day, the product IS good, but must improve for equality to occur.
     
    #15
  16. Red Rick

    Red Rick G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2013
    Messages:
    12,974
    Women birth 100% of all babies

    Men get 100% of all kicks in the nuts

    IT'S A DIGRACE
    IT'S AN SCANDAL
    IT'S AN OUTRAGE
     
    #16
  17. Red Rick

    Red Rick G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2013
    Messages:
    12,974
    I don't think a lack of all court play in the women's game is a matter of court speed as much as it is a disbalance between court dimensions, ball weight, court speed and physicality of the WTA players.
     
    #17
  18. BeatlesFan

    BeatlesFan G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2015
    Messages:
    13,049
    Location:
    California
    I guess anyone that disagrees with you is “hateful?” I’m female and hate women’s tennis and don’t think women should earn as much as men in the profession of tennis. I’m neither “hateful” or sexist. When the women play 5 sets and generate even 1/100th of the interest of Fed or Nadal, then equal pay is fine.

    And the contention that Serena is as popular or generates as much interest at the USO as the top men is ludicrous. I’ve attended matches at the USO many years and there’s actually widespread antipathy towards her amongst NY-ers. Even a player like a Thiem gets more love there. Her behavior at the USO has been atrocious in the past, in case you’ve forgotten.
     
    #18
  19. tennis_pro

    tennis_pro Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2011
    Messages:
    35,209
    Male players earn more because they draw in more crowds?

    What a crazy world we live in.
     
    #19
  20. parvasedpotens

    parvasedpotens Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2018
    Messages:
    139
    Location:
    Turku, Finland
    I don't disagree.
     
    Red Rick likes this.
    #20
  21. Aussie Darcy

    Aussie Darcy Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2015
    Messages:
    25,397
    Location:
    Brisbane, Australia
    For the 1000th time, it's not hateful to disagree with me. What's hateful is the disgusting and sexist comments I have seen on this forum in my years here.

    And that's hilarious because as the article LITERALLY SAYS, Serena US Open finals have outrated mens finals in past years for US viewers.

    Direct quote:
    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/ng-interactive/2018/jul/14/tennis-pay-gap-shouldnt-be-gender-based
     
    Hydrocella likes this.
    #21
  22. maratha_warrior

    maratha_warrior Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2014
    Messages:
    779
    I kno
    And I feel they shud have equal pay in tennis
    In modelling women deserve righfully. Imho
     
    #22
  23. Aussie Darcy

    Aussie Darcy Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2015
    Messages:
    25,397
    Location:
    Brisbane, Australia
    Isner/Anderson more popular than Serena Williams? I find that hard to believe!
     
    Hydrocella and Incognito like this.
    #23
  24. Red Rick

    Red Rick G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2013
    Messages:
    12,974
    Women play with slightly lighter balls, correct? And they play with lighter rackets?

    I feel that if you want to make significant changes to the women's game that maybe balls maybe should be made even lighter or something.
     
    #24
  25. Red Rick

    Red Rick G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2013
    Messages:
    12,974
    This is not about the individual. It's about the entire ATP Tour vs the WTA Tour. That's what prize money is based on. Obviously Serena gets way better sponsorship contracts than both Isner and Anderson.
     
    #25
  26. Aussie Darcy

    Aussie Darcy Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2015
    Messages:
    25,397
    Location:
    Brisbane, Australia
    That's not what was posted though :)
     
    #26
  27. Man of steel

    Man of steel Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2014
    Messages:
    2,390
    You are deluded if you think the men have more viewership in the US than Serena.

    Serena and to a lesser extent Venus, have been keeping alive American tennis for the past 20 year's.
    Men's viewership has been on the decline since Agassi and Sampras left.
     
    #27
  28. tennis_pro

    tennis_pro Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2011
    Messages:
    35,209
    This is like comparing Federer with Pliskova.
     
    #28
  29. Man of steel

    Man of steel Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2014
    Messages:
    2,390
    No one is talking about sponsorship.
     
    #29
  30. Aussie Darcy

    Aussie Darcy Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2015
    Messages:
    25,397
    Location:
    Brisbane, Australia
    I was just comparing Wimbledon semifinalists ;)

    Isner/Anderson v Serena.
     
    #30
  31. Boom-Boom

    Boom-Boom Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2013
    Messages:
    3,993
    Location:
    HELSINKI

    so what. that’s normal
     
    #31
  32. Sysyphus

    Sysyphus G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2014
    Messages:
    16,632
    Location:
    Grigolo's Harem
    Useless and misguided analogy, sorry.

    Models aren't payed based on gender but on market value, i.e. based on their popularity / market value as an individual, not based merely on their gender. More female models have a high market value, and hence female models earn more on average, but a male model with a high market value will earn more than a female model with a low market value. There's not some separate pay grade in play that dictates that every individual female model should be payed more than a comparable man merely because female models are more popular as a group. Which is what the meninists are generally arguing for w/r/t tennis – not that pay should be differentiated based on the individual player's market value but whether their gender as a whole is more popular.
     
    Aussie Darcy likes this.
    #32
  33. parvasedpotens

    parvasedpotens Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2018
    Messages:
    139
    Location:
    Turku, Finland
    Racquets are lighter on average, but commensurate with body weight and strength. My racquet was 337 grams, and I'm only 1.57 meters and 50 kilos.
    Balls are the same except for the felt level, which makes a big difference!
     
    reaper and Red Rick like this.
    #33
  34. reaper

    reaper Legend

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2012
    Messages:
    5,017
    Tennis players receive appearance fees. There's nothing to stop a tournament paying a player $500k appearance money for a $100k prize money tournament where the popularity of the individual outstrips their cohort by a massive amount. Provided an individual female player is sufficiently popular her earnings have no limit.
     
    #34
  35. Shaolin

    Shaolin G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2004
    Messages:
    10,842
    Location:
    Virgo Supercluster
    Lol...so thin skinned you are crying before any comments were made.
     
    Meles likes this.
    #35
  36. Gazelle

    Gazelle Legend

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2014
    Messages:
    7,640
    Location:
    Europe
    OP should just shut up. This is getting stale.
     
    #36
  37. Nashvegas

    Nashvegas Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2016
    Messages:
    622
    According to the chart, 10 of the top 15 women made more than the men of the same ranking.
     
    VaporDude95, Meles and Gazelle like this.
    #37
  38. Goosehead

    Goosehead Legend

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2012
    Messages:
    5,393
    Location:
    A bloke in Brighton, England.
    women porn stars earn way more than men. discrimination and sexism is real.
     
    Cenarius, Zardoz7/12 and VaporDude95 like this.
    #38
  39. diggler

    diggler Professional

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2005
    Messages:
    1,363
    Location:
    Sydney
    If you took out prizemoney from the slams it would be a bigger gap.
     
    #39
  40. Benben245

    Benben245 Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2014
    Messages:
    438
    The parochial thinking in the wage gap myth is frustrating. The singular variable of sex as the determining factor in earnings is superficial and exclusive of all other meretricious variables such as skill, ticket sales, merchandising, and marketability.

    Whites are underrepresented as a segment of the population in the NBA;the NBA must be racist.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2018 at 7:01 AM
    West Coast Ace and VaporDude95 like this.
    #40
  41. Bartelby

    Bartelby Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2005
    Messages:
    25,088
    Location:
    Freedonia
    Meretricious does not mean what you think it means so no one is paying you for your language skills. To refresh your memory:

    meretricious
    ˌmɛrɪˈtrɪʃəs/
    adjective

    1. 1.
      apparently attractive but having no real value.
      "meretricious souvenirs for the tourist trade"
      synonyms: flashy, pretentious, gaudy, tawdry, trashy, garish, chintzy, Brummagem, loud, tinselly, cheap, tasteless, kitschy; More
    2. 2.
      archaic
      relating to or characteristic of a prostitute.

     
    #41
  42. DJTaurus

    DJTaurus Professional

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2015
    Messages:
    974
    Men also bring more money.....topic lock.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
    West Coast Ace likes this.
    #42
  43. BorgCash

    BorgCash Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2013
    Messages:
    4,387
    Men play harder longer matches. Period.
     
    VaporDude95 and DJTaurus like this.
    #43
  44. Bartelby

    Bartelby Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2005
    Messages:
    25,088
    Location:
    Freedonia
    I've got you sweating bullets, I see.

     
    #44
  45. Benben245

    Benben245 Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2014
    Messages:
    438
    Sarcasm Bartleby; as sex is the only relevant factor. If you take it as sarcasm it makes absolute sense. The public school system has failed you; the next time I take hallucinogens I will be sure to summon the ghost of Horace Mann and chastise him in your honor
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2018 at 7:06 AM
    #45
  46. Bartelby

    Bartelby Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2005
    Messages:
    25,088
    Location:
    Freedonia
    Men do not have 'Period'.

     
    #46
  47. MatsPhilander

    MatsPhilander Legend

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2014
    Messages:
    6,764
    Location:
    Yomamba
    Who cares? The women don't bring in the ratings the guys do, they get the same money for doing a lot less work at the slams & a lot of them make huge money from getting their kit off for magazines etc, which the men don't have the opportunity to do & get huge paying endorsements that only the very top guys get. The debate should not be about the BBC where pay scales vary wildly for all manner of reasons, sport etc where most players down to mediocre level are making vast sums of money, it should be about the 9-5 people working in offices, shops, factories etc.
     
    #47
  48. Bartelby

    Bartelby Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2005
    Messages:
    25,088
    Location:
    Freedonia
    I am not arguing in favour of greater equality, by the way, I am merely noting that the Trumpian tartuffery around here about women steamrolling men is just 'fake news'.

     
    #48
  49. jm1980

    jm1980 G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2011
    Messages:
    12,688
    Did anyone see the actual graph? The men only earn marginally more than the women, and some even earn less. LOL at the "massively"

    And is it really that surprising that Nadal earns more than Halep, and Federer earns more than Wozniacki?
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2018 at 7:39 AM
    #49
  50. emilyhex

    emilyhex Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2012
    Messages:
    1,602
    Location:
    Location services not enabled
    If you had read the article, you would have seen they discussed the larger audiences that Serena has drawn. This was based on American viewership ratings using statistical methods. This wasn't based on polling the attitudes of potentially biased New Yorkers.

    "From 2010 to 2014, the women’s US Open final drew a larger audience in America than the men’s final. Part of that was due to Serena Williams appearing in four of those finals. But more people tuned in to watch Kim Clijsters’s win in 2010 than they did for Nadal’s victory the same year, and more than 1.5m more people watched Samantha Stosur win than Djokovic in 2011."
     
    sportmac likes this.
    #50

Share This Page