Men should be limited to three-set tennis at Grand Slams, says Heather Watson

Federev

Legend
https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/news/men-limited-three-set-tennis-131000435.html - (This thread will be taken down as soon as you can say "best of 3" if heated arguments arise, so try to keep it civil)

The British No 2 says she would like it to be “fair and the same” for men, who play best of five sets, and women, who play best of three, at Grand Slam tournaments.

“I would be really interested to see the men’s point of view and whether they actually want to play to five sets,” Watson told the Standard.

“It changes the dynamic of the game a lot and I feel like more recently, because the weather conditions are really tough in some of these Grand Slams, like Australia and New York, it gets really hot and you see far more retirements in the matches.

“To play five sets in those conditions is so, so physically tough for them. I would love it to be fair and the same.

“Just like with on-court coaching — the women have on-court coaching, but the men don’t. I don’t like that. If the men aren’t allowed to have it, I don’t want it either. I just want it to be the same for both. I don’t know why it should be different.”

Men play best of five sets at the four Grand Slam events — Wimbledon and the Australian, French and US Opens — as well as the Davis Cup. All other tournaments are best of three.

Watson was speaking ahead of the release of Battle Of The Sexes, a bigscreen dramatisation of the 1973 match between Billie Jean King and Bobby Riggs. Riggs, then 55, a former world No 1, had claimed that he could still beat any female player but lost to King, then 29, against the backdrop of a debate about the difference in prize money for male and female players.

Wimbledon became the last Grand Slam tournament to offer equal money to male and female champions in 2007.

Watson defended its huge rewards — £2.2 million last year — saying: “On the money front, tennis is a lot tougher than people think it is. We have to pay for everything: our coach’s wage, our flights around the world, our hotels every single week. We may be earning a certain amount, but most of it goes back out.

“In sports, usually your team pays for your travel, your food — you don’t have to worry about anything apart from showing up and competing. So it’s a very expensive sport to play.”
Watson, a former British No 1, slipped down the rankings after contracting glandular fever in 2013. She won the Wimbledon mixed doubles title last year and is now back at No 2, behind Johanna Konta. She said she had made huge sacrifices in her life, having begun her career by joining the Nick Bollettieri Tennis Academy in Florida aged 12.

“Doing tennis professionally I have missed out on a lot of stuff that my friends do with at this age — going out with each other and having a good time,” she said.

“I don’t have a lot of time to socialise. That’s a big sacrifice. Even just seeing my friends and family is something I’ve missed out on so much.”

Despite having many years left as a professional, she has thought about her post-tennis career and could follow in the footsteps of former footballer Dion Dublin, who has joined BBC1 property show Homes Under The Hammer. She said: “Renovating and flipping properties is something I am very interested in and something I would like to get into.”
NAAAAAAAHHHHH....
 
1) ask the men whether they want to play 5 sets?

Well, I will be d*****.

Let's start also asking the employees if they want to work more or less for the same money.

And while we are at it, why don't we ask them to work even less?

A one set to 11 and a TB in the current format will suffice.

Does the young lady know which sport she is playing (albeit being good at it she seems to lack the perspective created from actually respecting it for its tradition)?

And this on court coaching, which, in my opinion, is a cheap gimmick to create some illusion for dynamic interaction, when in reality it changes the very nature of the sport of applying your own intelligence to the various situations arising from the many variables that come into play and are not very well identifiable in advance.

This whole effort to make it more "fun" is a disgrace*.

*IMO

:cool:
 
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FrontHeadlock

Hall of Fame
I don't get why we have to keep equating the two tours to justify equal money. Let the two tours do whatever works for them. The reasons for equal money are much deeper than B03 vs B05.

Separate but equal is inherently unequal anyway.

Simply having two tours segregated by gender renders them unequal by definition. The fight for equal prize money wasn't about equality; it was about DAT CASH.
 

Bobby Jr

G.O.A.T.
So...let's look at those issues.

1) What do YOU think most of the male players would say if asked? I've seen lots of interview quotes where they say best of five is too much. Also lots of quotes from the women saying they're willing to play best of five. So...it goes both ways.
Most would say that the majors are the pinnacle measures of achievement in tennis and the longer format is one of the integral parts of the challenge in winning one of those events. It's what separates the journeymen from the greats.

If a male player thinks they should make them 3-set matches they're almost certainly just conceding that they know deep down they're incapable of winning 7 longer format matches.

Watson made an inane and basically irrelevant point about tennis vs other sports - seemingly in some sort of half-arsed attention-seeking cry about how hard tennis players have it. That's what.

3) Quite a lot of people think it doesn't look good for women to have their (always male) coaches publicly advising them while the men have no such thing. I happen to agree with her--either have both sexes being coached, or neither.
Agree. But she offered no reason for her view other than, effectively, "just because." In-short, any decent argument should at least have some attempt at logic arguing one way more than the other. Hers' didn't, her argument can equally be used to call for men to have on-court coaching.
 
D

Deleted member 688153

Guest
Nah, they just need to utilise more courts or start the tournament on Saturday instead of Monday. It’s no problem.
Could work I guess. But they insist on putting all the WTA matches on the centre two courts as well as the mens ones.
That is a particular problem at Wimbledon, actually, where it wears out the grass. Centre court should be saved for the men's second week + the women's final.
 

10iss_Nut

New User
Breaking news; Alexander Zverev supports Heather Watson proposal that there should be no five set matches.

WJ3cSi.gif
Weak!!
 

peakin11mugs

Semi-Pro
Just leave it as it is. Don’t want to see best of 5 for women unless they separate the slams which they probably won’t. Scheduling would be a nightmare and best of 3 for men makes luck too big of a factor

On court coaching is needed in WTA but yes it looks ridiculous a bloke always telling a woman what to do. Dunno about that.

Introducing it for men ruins individual nature of tennis but is very very interesting as a fan. Would love to hear what they would say to the big three players. And the funny stuff Stop shanking, more topspin to back hand no, stop swearing etc etc haha
 

Sysyphus

Talk Tennis Guru
“I would be really interested to see the men’s point of view."
— Heather Watson

Nice attempt at feigning a diplomatic attitude, Heather, but this will not pass the TTW inquisition. Have her hanged and quartered by the morning for this unspeakable blasphemy, thanks.
 
D

Deleted member 688153

Guest
I don't get why we have to keep equating the two tours to justify equal money. Let the two tours do whatever works for them. The reasons for equal money are much deeper than B03 vs B05.
Equal pay looks good on paper for the organisers and isn't much skin off their nose anyway as they're swimming in cash.
I don't personally want Bo5 women's matches, so I say keep the women playing three sets and if the organisers think equal pay still makes sense then that's their decision to make.
 

tennisaddict

Bionic Poster
Heather is getting embarrassed because of on court coaching in WTA.

I don't want that to stop. Otherwise how are we going to see these entertainment shows during an otherwise boring match ?

'You chew and watch the fu**g video. Are you a moron ? You don't applaud me when i hit a shot ?'


"Nothing I can f%#king do"


'I don't want to play tennis'


A beautiful compilation of all coaching

 
D

Deleted member 688153

Guest
At the very least, there should be a tie-break in the 5th set in every slam event. Playing 40+ games in the 5th set is pointless, the winner of which has zero chance of winning the next match, if he shows up at all.
Noooooooo
I love the extended 5th set. At least keep it at Wimbledon.

But: Get rid of it for the women. There have been many tedious drawn out third sets that have stuffed up the guys playing afterwards in night sessions.
Extended set in the third set is silly.
 
D

Deleted member 688153

Guest
Heather is getting embarrassed because of on court coaching in WTA.

I don't want that to stop. Otherwise how are we going to see these entertainment shows during an otherwise boring match ?

'You chew and watch the fu**g video. Are you a moron ? You don't applaud me when i hit a shot ?'


"Nothing I can f%#king do"


'I don't want to play tennis'


A beautiful compilation of all coaching

Nice. About to grab lunch - I'll watch these over it. :D
 

MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
Sadly, eventually tennis will be 3 sets or something like Fast 4 format, with a shotclock. It's going to hell in a handbasket fast.
 

Mazz Retic

Hall of Fame
I like the idea of scrapping or keeping on court coaching for both men and women. Fan of keeping BO5 for men and BO3 for women. Done.
 

metsman

G.O.A.T.
Equal pay looks good on paper for the organisers and isn't much skin off their nose anyway as they're swimming in cash.
I don't personally want Bo5 women's matches, so I say keep the women playing three sets and if the organisers think equal pay still makes sense then that's their decision to make.
Exactly, that's my take on it too. It would be nice if revenues were allocated in a strictly proportional manner but as it stands right now it is what it is.
 

Devin

Semi-Pro
Equal pay looks good on paper for the organisers and isn't much skin off their nose anyway as they're swimming in cash.
I don't personally want Bo5 women's matches, so I say keep the women playing three sets and if the organisers think equal pay still makes sense then that's their decision to make.

I can't agree with this more. BO5 women's matches would be screeching screaming galore. Seriously. Screeching has ruined the WTA. BO5 matches are just going to take time away from allowing the ATP to play their matches.
 

Pete Player

Hall of Fame
Shot-clocks are very welcome, and already going into pactice. Yet the slams go the other way on the time, that was supposed to my liking.

Last set tie-break should be in every slam. The 40-sth games to win a match is a joke, as seen in AO and Wimbledon. After some 20-plus odd games it is no more a tennis test, but a marathon.

There are too many spots in the slams. Reducing the number of players, whould be good. Now they reduced the seeded number to 16 for the slams, but as been said before by the players, the slams basically start at the second week.

Slams are the test, where the ultimate best are measured against the best of the best. No need for the first few rounds in that respect. Work up the ladders and get your spot.

To me it is very inspiring to see the comebacks 2 down, and it makes the mental game a lot harder, cause one needs to sustain their focus for longer time span and requires more will power to close the match after two sets.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
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BGod

G.O.A.T.
Just when I start travelling to the Slams. I'd just stop watching matches prior to the Final.

That would be pathetic.

Bring the women up to 5 sets please.
 

Shank Volley

Hall of Fame
I do like what she said about the high costs of tennis. A lot of people seem to brush over it when they see first round prize money as 5 to 10 thousand dollars (to show up and lose) at so many tournaments. As someone who travels a lot I know how much renting apartments and essentially having to eat out every night costs, and on top of that having to pay for family to travel/supporting staff.
 

BGod

G.O.A.T.
Shot-clocks are very welcome, and already going into pactice. Yet the slams go the other way on the time, that was supposed to my liking.

Last set tie-break should be in every slam. The 40-sth games to win a match is a joke, as seen in AO and Wimbledon. After some 20-plus odd games it is no more a tennis test, but a marathon.

By that logic the NHL playoffs should see 3 on 3 Overtime and MLB should be hit-off.

But how about just a super set to 10 games until semifinals? Then it goes 5 game sets and the Final is regular sets but the 3rd is a super tiebreak? HAZZA!
 

Pete Player

Hall of Fame
By that logic the NHL playoffs should see 3 on 3 Overtime and MLB should be hit-off.

But how about just a super set to 10 games until semifinals? Then it goes 5 game sets and the Final is regular sets but the 3rd is a super tiebreak? HAZZA!

I did not mean match-tie-break, but a regular one at 6 all.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

Wittgenstein

New User
This is all about that deep nagging feeling that the whole WTA has that tells them that they aren't as good as the men. They have separate tours and never play each other 1 vs. 1 and so to the casual observer the most obvious differences between female and male tennis players is the format of tennis which they play. For this reason the WTA strives to equalise the women's and men's tour in as many metrics as possible. It is entirely out of line for Heather to suggest changes to the ATP to bring it closer to the WTA, of course, rather than the other way around. A very immature stance taken due to the realisation that women indeed cannot compete on the same level.

Imagine if there was a separate tour for sub-6-foot male players and over-6-foot male players and the sub-6-foot players lobbied to reduce the height of the net for both tours. Does that make any sense?

The culture of the squeaky wheels getting the grease is also unfair. It's a fact that if gender was ignored and there was a unified tennis tour, the players on the WTA would be outcompeted by ATP players and that's why they play different matches. Similarly and for reasons linked to that first point, interest in women's matches is lower (global average) than for male matches. Yet somehow the WTA has lobbied for (and succeeded in getting) equal prize money. The points I make in this paragraph can be loosely applied to doubles players also, yet an undefeated doubles team makes less than 500,000 compared to 2.5 million for an undefeated singles champ, so for an individual that's a 10-fold decrease in prize money between doubles and singles. The reason for this of course is purely POLITICAL and has trickled down from the real world where women have lobbied for equality in legitimate matters such as the right to vote, the right to drive, etc. The sense of rightful entitlement to equality in real-world matters has been misappropriated for financial gain in tennis.
 

Red Rick

Bionic Poster
I consider myself a rational individual in just about any case. The thought of Bo3 in Grand Slams makes me considerably homocidal

Nice attempt at feigning a diplomatic attitude, Heather, but this will not pass the TTW inquisition. Have her hanged and quartered by the morning for this unspeakable blasphemy, thanks.

The Prophets of TTW agree.

See it done, For the night is dark and full of mugs.
 

Red Rick

Bionic Poster
This is all about that deep nagging feeling that the whole WTA has that tells them that they aren't as good as the men. They have separate tours and never play each other 1 vs. 1 and so to the casual observer the most obvious differences between female and male tennis players is the format of tennis which they play. For this reason the WTA strives to equalise the women's and men's tour in as many metrics as possible. It is entirely out of line for Heather to suggest changes to the ATP to bring it closer to the WTA, of course, rather than the other way around. A very immature stance taken due to the realisation that women indeed cannot compete on the same level.

Imagine if there was a separate tour for sub-6-foot male players and over-6-foot male players and the sub-6-foot players lobbied to reduce the height of the net for both tours. Does that make any sense?

The culture of the squeaky wheels getting the grease is also unfair. It's a fact that if gender was ignored and there was a unified tennis tour, the players on the WTA would be outcompeted by ATP players and that's why they play different matches. Similarly and for reasons linked to that first point, interest in women's matches is lower (global average) than for male matches. Yet somehow the WTA has lobbied for (and succeeded in getting) equal prize money. The points I make in this paragraph can be loosely applied to doubles players also, yet an undefeated doubles team makes less than 500,000 compared to 2.5 million for an undefeated singles champ, so for an individual that's a 10-fold decrease in prize money between doubles and singles. The reason for this of course is purely POLITICAL and has trickled down from the real world where women have lobbied for equality in legitimate matters such as the right to vote, the right to drive, etc. The sense of rightful entitlement to equality in real-world matters has been misappropriated for financial gain in tennis.
Yeah, if the WTA want true equality, they may start by playing with the mens balls.

That came out wrong
 

canta_Brian

Hall of Fame
Bo5 and large draws works in the slams because they are played over 2 weeks. Play is typically day on / day off. This allows for the slams to be a bigger test. This is the issue for me with the women's game. The slams are not the step up from the rest of the tour they are for the men.

While I'm at it, I don't want to see the scoring system of tennis changed. The idea that you have to be ahead by two is central to the game. The challenge of winnings two points in a row from deuce creates some of the greatest moments of drama in sport. If this means the sport takes too long for millennials, the problem is with them not tennis.
 

Chanwan

G.O.A.T.
I never said they did. I also don't like that particular rule for men. Maybe calm down first and stop accusing me of things I didn't say/imply?

My previous post says "I LIKE!!! the fact that she thinks the women don't need on court coaching. I AGREE WITH HER!!!
When I opened this thread, I was pretty sure I would find
a) sexist comments
b) people complaining about sexist comments and
c) people calling non-sexist comments for sexist comments

Too funny that @AtomicForehand chose your post on a page filled with way better candidates for sexism.
 

zagor

Bionic Poster
BO3 for slams would kill my interest in men's tennis. Yes I know there were changes in that regard (such as introducing tiebreak or USO having a 5th set tiebreak, or many tourneys having a BO5 final in the past) but there's a limit.

BO5 for women wouldn't work given that the serve in WTA isn't anywhere near as dominant (there are too many rallies and breaks an re-breaks), it would wreck the schedule.
 

Red Rick

Bionic Poster
BO5 for women wouldn't work given that the serve in WTA isn't anywhere near as dominant (there are too many rallies and breaks an re-breaks), it would wreck the schedule.
There are reasons I don't believe Bo5 will work for the WTA Tour, but that is not one of them.

Scheduling is a problem, physicality is a problem, public interest is a problem.
 

zagor

Bionic Poster
There are reasons I don't believe Bo5 will work for the WTA Tour, but that is not one of them.

Scheduling is a problem, physicality is a problem, public interest is a problem.

I think it's an important factor. You often see those WTA matches where a player can't serve out in the decider that seem to go on forever.

Nearly every game involves a lot of rallies while even guys not known for their big serves like Nadal or Novak often blitz through their serve games with a 1-2 punch.
 

Pete Player

Hall of Fame
I think it's an important factor. You often see those WTA matches where a player can't serve out in the decider that seem to go on forever.

Nearly every game involves a lot of rallies while even guys not known for their big serves like Nadal or Novak often blitz through their serve games with a 1-2 punch.

It’s not far from Isner’s games though.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

moon shot

Hall of Fame
I can't agree with this more. BO5 women's matches would be screeching screaming galore. Seriously. Screeching has ruined the WTA. BO5 matches are just going to take time away from allowing the ATP to play their matches.

But with all the screeching, hooting, grunting ... what shape would their vocal chords be in after playing 7 matches of BO5?

Maybe this is the solution to all the noises, the women might be hoarse and unable to make those noises by the quarters.
 
In golf, men and women play from different positions (color markers) in the TEE BOX box which often has nothing to do with gender but simply how low your handicap is; . a low handicap usually indicating that one is "longer than average" off the tee. . In the VEE-BOX the same criteria holds true as well.

tmg-article_default_mobile;jpeg_quality=20.jpg
 

SinjinCooper

Hall of Fame
Men's tennis doesn't need to ditch the five set format because of fairness issues.

It needs to ditch it because the sport is dead in a ditch from a viewership standpoint. Got to go to ten game pro sets in all slams until the semis, then MAYBE three sets for the last couple rounds, to try to get TV interest back and breathe some life back into the tour. Nobody watches this crap any more now that it's nothing but hours of baseline grinding. Replays of old football games (either kind) draw better ratings.

Get with the century, tennis.
 

AtomicForehand

Hall of Fame
When I opened this thread, I was pretty sure I would find
a) sexist comments
b) people complaining about sexist comments and
c) people calling non-sexist comments for sexist comments

Too funny that @AtomicForehand chose your post on a page filled with way better candidates for sexism.

Agreed that there were many more. :( Maybe you take a turn and call it out. I get tired.
 

Mugu

Rookie
the way things are headed with this ADHD generation, maybe they will all just go to best of 5 games. everyone's too busy texting
on their phones to notice much of anything anyway. perhaps the players will just walk out to the net after the warmup and flip a coin
to determine the winner. and text the result to everyone in the stadium.
 
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