men tennis coach's salary in D1 and D2

Discussion in 'College Tennis Talk' started by borna coric, May 23, 2018.

  1. borna coric

    borna coric New User

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    What is a typical salary for a D1 men tennis coach of the ACC conference such as UNC, UVa, VA Tech, Clemson, WF, FSU (aka Free Shoe University as Steve Spurier called it)? I was at WF yesterday watching the men tennis NCAA final and had a conversation with someone in the stand about this. I was surprised that the salary of the men tennis coach is between 95k-110k. WTF!!!

    I can't believe that the men tennis coach at an elite program is making less than a junior software developer :-(
     
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  2. CHtennis

    CHtennis New User

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    You can look them up at the public universities and if I recall correctly Ty Tucker at OSU makes $250,000 per year or thereabouts (but he is the director of tennis and oversees both programs to an extent)
     
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  3. Nacho

    Nacho Professional

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    Just like any job it depends on the coach, their experience, the school, their budget, etc. A guy like Ty has been coaching the Buckeyes for 20 years, and was an Assistant before that, so he has moved up the ranks at OSU receiving promotions and raises on his performance which has been outstanding when you look at the history of the program before 2000. Probably should be making more considering he is the equivalent of tennis coaching as ole Urban is to football coaching.

    Most college tennis coaches are paid very little, and asked to do a lot which is why so many good ones get out of college tennis altogether and go into club teaching. Most athletic departments have to report their coaches salaries so you can look up the ones you want, but keep in mind the discrepancies are based on many factors. The fact is college tennis coaching is an underpaid, under-appreciated position in the hierarchy of college athletic coaching. You have to recruit, be a manager of the team, try to improve players with very little time, work through the NCAA/ITA oversight which makes the job harder, and then be accountable for the performance while barely making a living.
     
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  4. JW10S

    JW10S Hall of Fame

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    As has been stated the salaries vary pretty greatly. A lot of college coaches, if not most, also augment their salaries by running summer and holiday tennis camps using the school facilities. A well attended summer camp can bring in some substantial money.
     
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  5. jerryjones1960

    jerryjones1960 New User

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    almost every bcs schools coach makes over 100k
     
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  6. Nacho

    Nacho Professional

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    They also have the most experience....Mids are well under that
     
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  7. Doubles

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    Where I got to school I know that the head coach of the men’s team makes somewhere in the 40-50k range. It wouldn’t surprise me if most schools in the midmajor D1 range all the way down to smaller programs are in this range. I would doubt that most D2 and D3 coaches make a lot unless their school has a massive amount of money or their team consistently wins titles.
     
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  8. Nacho

    Nacho Professional

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  9. Nostradamus

    Nostradamus Talk Tennis Guru

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    Junior software developer makes over >100,000 dollars ? Is this only in Cali or all across USA ? Cause even the Computer engineers with masters degree Starts at lower salary than that.............
     
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  10. andfor

    andfor Legend

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    When it comes to money and jobs, Borna's trash talk exceeds what even you manage to muster on tennis! :D
     
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  11. borna coric

    borna coric New User

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    :)

    I can't say if it is the "norm" but there are several "junior" software developers at my company and all of them makes between 101k and 104k. Two of them graduated from Carnegie Mellon and the other two graduated from UCLA and University of Florida. Not sure if that makes any differences.
     
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  12. andfor

    andfor Legend

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    The biggest difference is software developers are typical responsible for a product or service the generates or supports revenues that that far exceed their salary. College tennis coaches are typically not producing revenues that exceed their budget.
     
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  13. onehandbh

    onehandbh Legend

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    The average salary of those coaches is higher than the salary of the President of Indonesia.
     
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  14. ClarkC

    ClarkC Hall of Fame

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    Location? Cost of living? Dollars without context mean nothing.
     
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  15. borna coric

    borna coric New User

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    Research Triangle Park (RTP) in North Carolina where cost of living is very reasonable, if not low.
     
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  16. roxieap12

    roxieap12 Rookie

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    The salaries of coaches from public universities are available to the public. For example, UCLA mens head coach Billy Martin makes about $350k a year, UCLA womens head coach Stella Sampras Webster makes $213k, Cal mens head coach Peter Wright makes $138k.
     
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  17. ClarkC

    ClarkC Hall of Fame

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    Some of these coaches had a better year than the President of Indonesia.
     
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  18. borna coric

    borna coric New User

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    I am not a lawyer but the women head coach needs to sue UCLA for title IX in gender discrimination. She makes 40% less than the men coach. WTF!
     
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  19. onehandbh

    onehandbh Legend

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    Define better.
     
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  20. Nostradamus

    Nostradamus Talk Tennis Guru

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    Not really.. Men's team brings in a lot more revenue than women's team that nobody care about. it is just matter of business not gender discrimination
     
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  21. roxieap12

    roxieap12 Rookie

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    Hate to break it you but neither mens nor womens tennis brings in any tangible revenue. These sports consistently operate "in the red" every single year.
     
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  22. Nostradamus

    Nostradamus Talk Tennis Guru

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    Proof. ton of Youtube videos of Men,, not women of NCAA
     
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  23. mogo

    mogo Rookie

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    A little off topic but it's nothing compared to what the Football coach makes sadly. I can say that the tennis coaches have to definitely work their butts off to have a relevant program.
     
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  24. mogo

    mogo Rookie

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    They also won a National Championship for the first time.
     
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  25. CincyIllinifan

    CincyIllinifan New User

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    As of last year, Brad Dancer from Illinois had a annual salary of $132K, which places him approx. 35th highest paid amongst other Illini coaches.
     
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  26. Nacho

    Nacho Professional

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    underpaid
     
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  27. AndI

    AndI Rookie

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    Sorry about a side note not related to the topic of this discussion. There are great coaches out there who, as any great teachers, deserve high salaries for their vision and ability to help their students. Great coaches and great teachers are hard to find, but those who had the privilege of meeting them and working with them can consider themselves lucky.

    My problem is that I have difficulties understanding the purpose and value of college sports. Sports have many virtues, when taken separately from professional career, but college is to get education. Most kids who participate in college sports teams barely have time to study. They have to train and compete. I have met a number of people who played tennis at college. They are not prepared for any other career than a tennis instructor at a local tennis facility. This is a much worse paid and much less fulfilling job that the job which they could have gotten if they focused on studies while at school and got the skills and knowledge required to get a real job. They may have gotten a tennis scholarship to graduate from college, but if this ruined their career opportunities, who cares? They do not get a higher pay rate when they end up working as tennis instructors because they have college degrees. They do not need a college diploma to do it. There may be people who succeeded in both sports and career, but somehow it seems that they are minority.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2018
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  28. borna coric

    borna coric New User

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    I see it differently. If you are a college tennis athlete and also study hard in field such as Finance, Economics, Accounting or Engineering (if you have the brain to do so), upon graduation, you will have opportunities to meet wealthy and influential people a lot more than just "regular" college students. Wealthy and important either play tennis or golf and they want to hit with good players. That's how connection and relationship are formed. You use your tennis skills along with your education to advance your career. My company hires a lot of student athletes with degree in Finance and they get paid extremely well.

    For college tennis players that don't care about education, they will be tennis instructor at a local tennis facility. Very few will ever be successful.
     
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  29. CHtennis

    CHtennis New User

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    I am not sure that having to focus on tennis "ruined their career opportunities" so much as there is a lot of desire to try to become a pro tennis player. I remember a number of years back Scott Green and Ross Wilson from OSU won a NCAA doubles championship and thought about trying out the pro tour. Scott started a career (in finance, I believe) and so Ross pursued that a little and became a tennis coach after it did not pan out (I think, maybe he went straight to coaching). Many people lamented Scott not trying it out, "He could make it big." I think there is an allure to becoming a professional athlete that hides that it is a really tough way to make a living if you are not in the top 50. A lot of these guys are at the top of the tennis game in the NCAA and want to try to make it on the tour, but 1-5 years to try out the pro tour may make it hard to get hired in a different field.

    Many fall back on teaching tennis as something that they feel comfortable in and can make a good living. Good tennis pros can do pretty well, better than some jobs.
     
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  30. Nacho

    Nacho Professional

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    I completely disagree with this. Tennis, of all sports out there, probably leads in graduation rates, and career choices. Most tennis athletes are fantastic students, and the balance between athletics and school gives many of them a leg up in the business world. They learn discipline, time management, work ethic, and most of all go through the mental ups and downs of an individual sport that has gladiator like parameters. And, tennis players are not given the fake classes and grade help that some college sports are. Not because they don't ask, but because they don't need too. And, many get into tennis instructing as an option, because they have options. Other then other kids who have to linger in retail or wait tables. Teaching tennis or participating as a coach gives a lot of players opportunities to expand in the sport, and those that choose to do it should.

    As for the payment of tennis coaches, I would never suggest that a head coach for tennis should be paid the same as a head coach in other sports. It is really up to the school and the situation. If a school wants an administrator running tennis, then a low paying coach is perfectly acceptable. Many schools do this as tennis is not a revenue generating sport. College athletics in general is a money loser. Much of it is paid for through endowments, revenues from events, selling merchandise, generous donors, and our taxes. There is a terrible misconception that bigger supported sports are money generators, but many of them are in the red. Football and basketball especially, and these take a toll on other sports which is why you see so many get cut. Football commands a big chunk of the salary, budget, and is mis-understood as a revenue sport when in reality it is the sport every school chases by over paying coaches hoping for some big payday with wins. Just ask any MAC school, which basically have all had to get rid of every sport to maintain budget equity with women's sports and meet the standards of D-I football and basketball.

    If your a good college tennis coach, at a well supported school running a program that is perennially in the top of the rankings, and you recruit kids that graduate with GPA's above the average, then you should be paid as such. The cool thing about many college tennis coaches these days is that they don't do it for money, but enjoy giving back to the game and doing it at a school they love, which is why guys like Manny Diaz, Ty Tucker, and Brad Dancer are in the business. It's not a lucrative job for most, but a fulfilling one
     
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  31. AndI

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    CHtennis - Perhaps. I am not an expert in this, I only can make some observations based on conversations with people who I interacted with in the past years. There can be a lot of variations, and there could be regional differences, too. According to the Glassdoor, the average salary of a tennis instructor is $31,299 per year and of a tennis coach is $40,640 per year. In our area, most tennis instructors charge privately $50-$60 an hour which, I admit, is not bad, but it is not a steady income and it is not 40 hours a week. It is more like a few supplementary hours per week, mostly during summer. I know that a local tennis facility instructors in temp positions get in the ballpark of $15 an hour and permanent positions are extremely hard to get. An even larger problem, long term, is an uncertain career development path. On top of it, some great players may discover that being a successful athlete does not automatically make them a great coach.

    I am not saying that there are no great jobs for great coaches, all I say that not every former successful athlete becomes a good coach, and only few of them get good career opportunities.

    It is so true that the glamorous life and level of income of top 50 or top 100 athletes look very attractive, but the odds of getting to the top are probably comparable to the odds of winning in a lottery.


    Nacho
    - so well said! Great teachers (or coaches, in case of sports) became teachers because they enjoy every moment of teaching and they find great joy in seeing their students succeed! They need money for living but making money is not their main goal.

    Having said that, I find it hard to imagine how a student can train for several hours a day and after that have enough energy to fully engage in the learning process. I must admit, I have never been on the athlete's side, but I supervised PhD students at Berkeley for a number of years, my older kid is at grad school at Harvard, from what I saw myself and what I hear, I cannot imagine how these two worlds can be combined, at least not a top level colleges, and not concurrently. A fully engaged learning process takes a lot of time and energy, maybe more than the student has. If you play recreational tennis for 45 mins, you get recharged and energized. If you train for several hours on a pro level and give everything you got during the training, you get drained.

    I can understand that if a kid sees sports as the main thing that he or she wants to do, a college team and a sports scholarship is a logical way to proceed. You get on a team, you get coaching, and your tuition and training is covered. Basically, you graduate from college with a degree in tennis, but since there is no such thing as a degree in tennis, your diploma says something different. If you are bright and mature, you may be able to catch up and start a post-college professional career, but I am not sure if all kids are ready for it. I suspect that most kids are not ready for it and they do not realize when they get onto this path that it will be very difficult to find the right balance.

    I may be missing something, and I am honestly trying to understand...
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2018
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  32. Nacho

    Nacho Professional

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    Making a living on the pro tour is rare, grinding, and not something many can achieve. So, with respect to that you are correct. Tennis is not the sport you make a living on playing, but there are many reasons for this that go beyond opportunities and have a long sordid history.

    Tennis people are more then instructors, and are more involved then just hitting balls. For the sport they run clubs, serve on advisory boards, work with different tennis communities, work in the tennis merchandise industry....Who do you think is running play sight? Promoting Wilson? Working at the USTA? Working the different ATP tournament events? Running country tennis associations? There are lots of opportunities in tennis, and lost of different avenues. But most student athletes get into other things. Look up Jim Thomas, played at Stanford, got to 6 in the world in doubles, serves on many advisory boards, and oh yea has a law degree....Many other stores like this
     
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  33. jcgatennismom

    jcgatennismom Semi-Pro

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    Many 5 star juniors are choosing D3 schools to balance tennis and academics. One parent told me they were using tennis to get in the most selective school possible. These are kids who went to regular high school, took multiple AP courses, and still trained for tennis and played tournaments taking a rigorous curriculum so college is a less of an adjustment for them that those who were home or virtually schooled. We know one player who got in a school with less than 10% acceptance due to his tennis, had a very successful freshmen year in both tennis and academics, making great grades in a premed major, and garnered a summer internship at a prestigious medical center. It is a lot harder in D1 where NCAA says tennis athletes average 32 hours a week in sports related activities. While practice is limited to 20 hours a week, the 20 hours does not include match play, travel, compliance meetings, recruit hosting, etc. At GA Tech, where regular students mainly choose engineering or computer science majors, most of the athletes are business majors. If an athlete is focused more on the tennis than the academics, as long as the player makes decent grades, the player has the option of trying the tour and then returning to college to get a MBA or graduate degree. If the player had a sizeable scholarship for undergrad, parents may be able to fund the grad school when the player's sole focus is academics.

    The advantage of D3 and Ivy League schools though is if it becomes too hard to balance tennis and academics, a player can quit tennis without losing funds as any scholarship $ would be need or merit based. D1 players on mixed athletic and merit scholarships have the toughest road as they have to keep up the grades and win the matches. However, there are some premed D1 majors but probably not at top 30 D1 schools; I know of one female D1 player, biology premed who graduated high honors while playing 1S/1D.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2018
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  34. andfor

    andfor Legend

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    How many 5 stars signed this year for D3? I looked on Tennis Recruiting and only found one 5 star girl and no boys. Am I missing them somewhere else?
     
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  35. jcgatennismom

    jcgatennismom Semi-Pro

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    You are right-no boys for 2018. In 2017 eight 5 star boys committed to D3 schools. I thought it was a new trend, but maybe 2017 was an anomaly.
     
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  36. rgvhawaii

    rgvhawaii New User

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    Lot's of tennis coaches at schools are also given the title of Director of Tennis. They are able to run clinics and give lessons for extra income
     
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  37. rgvhawaii

    rgvhawaii New User

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    I worked in the tennis industry full time for 15+years. Small clubs to finally a 5 star resort. Did everything from lessons to stringing...you name it, I did it. Long hours, good money but it's a grind. After that many years on court, it wasn't fun anymore so the choice was to get a "real Job" as my family would say and be able to play league tennis or continue with the grind. Chose to enjoy the game and I'm pretty happy with my choice. Ive been around D1 and teaching pro lifers and it's a grind. For the most part, you earn as much as your able to work. But very few have paid vacations or employee benefits. Respect the teaching pro's and coaches always
     
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  38. subban

    subban Rookie

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    Would that be before or after the embezzlement. I know IND is a Muslim country with sharia law and the President is a dictator who pretty much takes most of their oil money into his personal bank account.
     
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  39. onehandbh

    onehandbh Legend

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    The current Indonesian President Jokowi has done an amazing job in reducing corruption and bribes, improving infrastructure, and reducing the government’s redtape.
     
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