Men & Women: Equal Prize Money [Merged]

Should women receive the same prize money as men?

  • Yes, women should receive the same pay at all events

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Yes, women should receive the same pay only at non 5-set events

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Yes, women should receive the same pay at Slams only if they play best of 5-set matches

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • No, women should not receive the same prize money anywhere until they play men

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0
  • Poll closed .

heycal

Hall of Fame
Cal was being way too subtle...for this board, at any rate. Cal, please move to a board discussing Kierkegaard. Thank you....
Ah well, Robert. I tried. Certain posters in this thread have never been known for their sense of humor...
 
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The Gorilla

Banned
I don't see why women should get as much money as men, as far as popularity goes it's a different sport, that's like saying women soccer players should be on $250,000 a week.
 

badboi78

New User
the only reason y women tennis have much more tv rating or whatever is because most of the time when a tennis match is about to air on tv its always the womens first!! or most of the time for me which really frustrates me... i have to keep on flipping back and forth to see when they will finish their match so that they can move onto the men's match... people probably dont feel like watching a 2nd tennis match so they turn off their tv.. great tactics for the women association to get more ratings for women (airing more women tennis more and placing the men's match after the women's match)
 

heycal

Hall of Fame
Good point, badboi78. Women claim to want equality and equal pay, but when it comes to order of play, the WTA suddenly falls back on the old-fashioned "Ladies first!" cry. It's hypocrisy at its worst.
 
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heycal

Hall of Fame
4. Women have been paid less for eons. Pay back is due. :)
Back pay? How about back play? I think these bra burners should have to play best-of-7 sets matches to make up for all those tournaments where they earned the same as guys but only had to play best of 3.
 

heycal

Hall of Fame
These last couple of posts were kind of downers, guys. Any chance you could juice them up a bit and make them a little more 'sexy' and accessible?
 

RafaN RichardG

Semi-Pro
Equal pay means equal performance no? we are in the pro world! Remember!

If you want no sex discrimination in the pay so this is the challenge IMO! You want to get the same pay as Federer (he is the best !) try to beat him once at least! That is it ! don't dream ! Otherwise it is not fair!!:) not fair sorry!!

That happens in many offices women can compete with men when it has to do with intellectual activities! but outside that field it is still questionable!
so should all the men who haven't beaten him get less money? with all due respect, maybe should use less exclamation points and think about what you say lol
sry about just picking you out, but i just skimmed through the thread and found your post amusing

haha we all know the women don't statistically do as much work, but i guess if you consider theyre naturally not as strong then they might be doing the same ratio of work that the men do, but whatever, it is what it is. i guess wimbledon wants to just show that they value all their players equally
with a forum with a majority of the people being male, i think we're just gonna get the same answer over and over "women don't deserve as much pay", i'm a guy but idk what the answer to that is, if you just go by how many sets played then women shouldnt get as much money, but a lot of women probably put just as much effort into their tennis, so idk. like i said, it is what it is
 
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heycal

Hall of Fame
haha we all know the women don't statistically do as much work, but i guess if you consider theyre naturally not as strong then they might be doing the same ratio of work that the men do, but whatever, it is what it is. i guess wimbledon wants to just show that they value all their players equally
with a forum with a majority of the people being male, i think we're just gonna get the same answer over and over "women don't deserve as much pay", i'm a guy but idk what the answer to that is, if you just go by how many sets played then women shouldnt get as much money, but a lot of women probably put just as much effort into their tennis, so idk. like i said, it is what it is
No, it's not about work ratio or effort either.

Basically, we've got several pages of posts here, and with some exceptions, it seems to be divided into two groups: young, mostly male posters who think men should be paid more because they are better and play more sets, and other, mostly older (and wiser!) posters who understand that tennis is just another business in a capitalistic society.

The argument that men should be paid more based on tennis ability or hours worked is a shallow and knee-jerk response that only sounds good and right on the surface. But one need only think about this issue a little more deeply and thoughtfully for just a minute or two before concluding that this a simplistic argument that has little relevance in the real world.

I have yet to see one good good argument in favor of men earning more than women.
 
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pinky42

Rookie
Basically, we've got several pages of posts here, and with some exceptions, it seems to be divided into two groups: young, mostly male posters who think men should be paid more because they are better and play more sets, and other, mostly older (and wiser!) posters who understand that tennis is just another business in a capitalistic society.
I think the two groups are those who haven't had at least in introductory course in economics and those who have.

scineram said:
I have yet to see one good good argument in favor of women earning the same as men.
heycal's post just above yours summed it up nicely. Capitalism. The women earn the same as men because they were able to negotiate it.
 

raiden031

Legend
Good point, badboi78. Women claim to want equality and equal pay, but when it comes to order of play, the WTA suddenly falls back on the old-fashioned "Ladies first!" cry. It's hypocrisy at its worst.
The women's rights movement is a hypocritical joke.

Men are expected to pay for women on dates.
Men don't get the night club/bar discounts that women get.
Men that don't display chivalry are considered rude.
*Men are expected to give up custody of their kids when they get divorced.
*Men are expected to go to war and die for no good reason.

* - State sponsored sexism against men

Despite all of this, women are supposed to get paid the same amount for less work simply because of their gender.

There is a statistic that supporters of the movement always use that says women make 75 cents to the dollar compared to men, but the truth is that stat is not valid on a per job basis (ie. it is not true that women get paid 75% for the same job as a man), but is actually based on the population as a whole, because men in general are in higher paying positions than women, so men as a whole make more money.

I am all for equal rights, but I just don't understand why its ok to stomp on men's rights in order to promote women's rights.
 

DueSouth

Semi-Pro
Even though I am female,i dont think equal prize money should be given a) because mens tennis is a more physical than womens(however that is mainly to do with the fact that they are men) and b) in the grand slam tournaments that we are talking about the men play best of 5 and women play best of 3 so the men should get payed more because they play more.
 

raiden031

Legend
You doubt that women's tennis generates as much revenue as men's because it is at a "lower level"??? And do you doubt that professional wrestling generates as much revenue as olympic style wrestling because it too is at a "lower level"??
Professional wrestling is not even a real sport because there is no competition, it is just an athletic show similar to a circus, so there is no comparison with olympic wrestling.

Men's and women's tennis are the same game, and men play at a higher level, which yields a higher quality product. Its like comparing major league to minor league baseball. The only difference is that tennis is run by some lefties who have to boost up women's tennis in prize money and media coverage to be "fair".

If level or quality determined what most people watch, PBS would put all the other TV networks out of business. Get over it, folks. Everyone complained during the AO on this board that they kept showing a Sharapova-Trashanova match instead of Djokovic-Tuarsonov or whatever for a reason....more women's matches are shown on TV because the general (i.e. non-TW) audience prefers them. I've seen the numbers through my daughter's office. Focus group data show that the perceived rivalries among the women are of more interest to the general public than the blander male personalities.
I don't know anyone that cares for women's tennis, except maybe some female junior players who idolize players on the WTA. Show me some stats that shows there is more interest in women's tennis.
 

Cruzer

Professional
If it was a case of equal pay for equal work then there wouldn't be much to argue about but in the case of the ATP and the WTA at the tennis majors it absolutely is not a case of equal pay for equal work. Seems pretty straightforward.
 

kevhen

Hall of Fame
Men's rights have been diminished in alot of ways both in divorce, child support and custody, as well as being expected to hold the door for women but treat them as equals in other areas where they aren't equal as in tennis. Eventually men may challenge some of these rules and laws that are unfair to men but so far we have just accepted it.

I think we are all human beings and should compete on the same playing field.
 

forzainter

Semi-Pro
if women and men played mixed tournaments, no woman would make it through 2 matches against top 100 men (maybe thats exagerrated, im not sure)
 

KTE89

New User
Honestly, the average person knows who Serena Williams, Venus Williams, and Maria Sharapova are. They might know who Andy Roddick and Roger Federer are, but not for sure.

Men's tennis as a sport isn't that special to the average person. There is the NBA, MLB, NFL, NHL, etc. which are based more on athleticism than technique. Obviously, if you play tennis, you'll probably watch it, but not the average sports fan.

Women's tennis is special. It is by far the best sport for women to play and it is impressive to see female athletes like 5'5" Justine Henin Hardenne crush the ball.

Also, women's tennis is NOT like minor league baseball to the MLB. That is really a ridiculous comparison. It is more like college basketball to the NBA. It is a totally different game with a totally different feel. Lots of people prefer college basketball to the NBA, even though the NBA is a higher level.

I am a huge tennis fan, and I definitely love both.
 
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chaz_233

Rookie
It's nothing other than reverse sexism, plain and simple plus corrupt Hollywood inspired culture of attempting to create a matriarchy.
 

Mad iX

Semi-Pro
Women should get paid the same if they bring in the same revenue. If they bring in more for the tournament then they should get more.
 

badboi78

New User
i can already picture y they give women more pay... probably some women form wta seduced some guys in the tennis association n in return ask for equal prize money
 

chess9

Hall of Fame
Honestly, the average person knows who Serena Williams, Venus Williams, and Maria Sharapova are. They might know who Andy Roddick and Roger Federer are, but not for sure.

Men's tennis as a sport isn't that special to the average person. There is the NBA, MLB, NFL, NHL, etc. which are based more on athleticism than technique. Obviously, if you play tennis, you'll probably watch it, but not the average sports fan.

Women's tennis is special. It is by far the best sport for women to play and it is impressive to see female athletes like 5'5" Justine Henin Hardenne crush the ball.

Also, women's tennis is NOT like minor league baseball to the MLB. That is really a ridiculous comparison. It is more like college basketball to the NBA. It is a totally different game with a totally different feel. Lots of people prefer college basketball to the NBA, even though the NBA is a higher level.

I am a huge tennis fan, and I definitely love both.
I was getting my hair cut in a toney styling salon (I normally use a barber, but I couldn't get into him. :) No, really! :) ) and we started talking about all the money Sharapova makes and Kournakova made (with modest tennis skills). No one cared a whit about Federer and I'm talking about men and women. The women knew all about women's tennis and so did the men. Let's have a reality check here. The vast majority of the public likes watching women's tennis. For better tennis players, men's tennis might be better viewing, but it depends on one's values. Personally, I like pretty women and the female form in action. So, on balance, I slightly prefer women's tennis. But, Sharapova earns over $30 million dollars a year in endorsements only. You think she isn't being watched by a gazillion people world wide?!?! She makes Federer look like a slave laborer in a coal mine. :)

-Robert
 

heycal

Hall of Fame
Can someone remind me which side of the argument I've been taking in this thread? I'm getting this thread mixed up with the others, and can't remember in which one I'm arguing "pro" and which one "con" on the issue of equal pay.... Is this the one related to Wimbledon's announcement or the one about smelling like French *****s?
 
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KTE makes the point quite well. Ask people who are NOT tennis fanatics if they know who Venus, Serena, Sharapova, Capriati, Mauresmo are and they typically do. Ask them if they know who Ljubicic, Nadal, Baghdatis are and you'll likely see puzzlement. In fact, ask a typical American if he knows who Mardy Fish is.
 

LuckyR

Legend
KTE makes the point quite well. Ask people who are NOT tennis fanatics if they know who Venus, Serena, Sharapova, Capriati, Mauresmo are and they typically do. Ask them if they know who Ljubicic, Nadal, Baghdatis are and you'll likely see puzzlement. In fact, ask a typical American if he knows who Mardy Fish is.
I believe Sharapova has more endorsement $ than anyone in tennis, or any other women's sports figure.
 

chess9

Hall of Fame
Can someone remind me which side of the argument I've been taking in this thread? I'm getting this thread mixed up with the others, and can't remember in which one I'm arguing "pro" and which one "con" on the issue of equal pay.... Is this the one related to Wimbledon's announcement or the one about smelling like French *****s?
But, Cal, it doesn't matter because the result is always the same.

-Robert
 

badboi78

New User
the only reason y ppl know sharapova is because she shrieks like a ***** n y ppl know serena william is because she wears over-reaveling clothing @ the red carpet while shes fat
 

raiden031

Legend
KTE makes the point quite well. Ask people who are NOT tennis fanatics if they know who Venus, Serena, Sharapova, Capriati, Mauresmo are and they typically do. Ask them if they know who Ljubicic, Nadal, Baghdatis are and you'll likely see puzzlement. In fact, ask a typical American if he knows who Mardy Fish is.
How many people don't know who Pete Sampras and Andre Agassi are?

I didn't know who Mauresmo or Sharapova was until about 8 months ago, and I've been playing tennis since 2000. But I happened to stop watching the sport on TV because its never on except during majors and one or two other tournaments.
 

chess9

Hall of Fame
And what is that result, Robert? I've been pondering the meaning of your post, but still it eludes me...
The result is that everyone's prejudices remain unchanged. So it doesn't matter which side of an argument one takes. :)

-Robert
 

chess9

Hall of Fame
How many people don't know who Pete Sampras and Andre Agassi are?

I didn't know who Mauresmo or Sharapova was until about 8 months ago, and I've been playing tennis since 2000. But I happened to stop watching the sport on TV because its never on except during majors and one or two other tournaments.
You've hit on a big problem for USA Tennis-the lack of tv coverage. In England, tennis is on all the time! All the tournaments. Every week there is something to watch or tape. In the USA, I'm starved for tennis action on tv.
Most folks would rather watch the Daytona 500 than Federer vs Nadal. Sheezh, what a downer.

But, you know something else? For all that tv tennis, it's still a declining sport in the UK. Incredible...and how very sad.

-Robert
 

heycal

Hall of Fame
The result is that everyone's prejudices remain unchanged. So it doesn't matter which side of an argument one takes. :)

-Robert
Perhaps so. And the biggest losers when all is said and done is ourselves.The French *****s don't come out smelling too good at the end of the day either.

Have you moved back to the states, Robert? Whereabouts?
 
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kevhen

Hall of Fame
Female models make more than males so there is reverse discrimination going on there! If female tennis players bring in more dollars for the tournaments then they should get paid more and vice versa.
 

raiden031

Legend
Female models make more than males so there is reverse discrimination going on there! If female tennis players bring in more dollars for the tournaments then they should get paid more and vice versa.
Nobody seems to know who brings in more revenue, but most seem to think the women do. I don't know a single person who prefers women's tennis over men's, so I am bias to thinking the men bring in more because everyone I know tennis fan or not prefer's the men's game.

Someone please find some information/stats to prove one or the other so we can put this topic to rest.
 
Out in the "real world" women in the work force have been getting shafted, i.e. they've been getting the proverbial "90 cents" on the dollar compared to their male counterparts doing the SAME JOB, so I really can't get bent out of shape if some player (who may be 'eye-candy' to boot--or 'bootay' if you will) gets equal pay for best-of-3 versus best-of-5 sets. And what of "downsizing" when that issue is placed out there on the table in the corporate world.....is it a gender-based "50/50" as far as *needed* cuts go?

Sorry, I really can't get too worked up over woman getting equal pay when it comes to hitting a ball over a net, although I can see a WTA first round 6-2; 6-0 blowout eliciting a "tsk, tsk."
 

raiden031

Legend
Out in the "real world" women in the work force have been getting shafted, i.e. they've been getting the proverbial "90 cents" on the dollar compared to their male counterparts doing the SAME JOB
This is false information. I pointed out earlier that women make less than men as a group because more men are in higher paying positions than women. This stat has been manipulated by the women's rights movement to say that women are paid less for the SAME JOB, but its not true.
 

LuckyR

Legend
Well in the modern era, benefits are more important to a lot of folks than salary and since maternity leave can be up to 12 weeks and standard paternity leave is 1 week, I think it all comes out in the wash....
 

heycal

Hall of Fame
Nobody seems to know who brings in more revenue, but most seem to think the women do... Someone please find some information/stats to prove one or the other so we can put this topic to rest.
Didn't someone quote some statistics earlier in the thread from Ms. Magazine saying that women's tennis brings in more revenue? Now, I know Gloria Steinem may not be the most trustworthy source when it comes to such issues, but until her erstwhile boss Hef provides some data to the contrary, that's all we've got to work with so far.
 

kevhen

Hall of Fame
If women make so much less, then why not start their own company and only hire women and out-profit those overpaid male companies?

I think the ATP brings in a bit more than the WTA but I can't find any stats. I would say it's on the order of $3 to $2 but I will keep looking.
 

raiden031

Legend
If women make so much less, then why not start their own company and only hire women and out-profit those overpaid male companies?

I think the ATP brings in a bit more than the WTA but I can't find any stats. I would say it's on the order of $3 to $2 but I will keep looking.
Woman-owned companies already have an advantage and are awarded contracts with the US government that other companies are not eligible for; the same goes for minority-owned companies.

Well in the modern era, benefits are more important to a lot of folks than salary and since maternity leave can be up to 12 weeks and standard paternity leave is 1 week, I think it all comes out in the wash....
Whats left out of the equation is the fact that men on average work for more years, longer hours, and at higher-level positions than women. Women are more likely to take off time for raising children, or even retire earlier all because gender roles still have men as the bread winner. Yet women as a group should make the EXACT same amount of money as men do as a group, even though they work less and are in less-important positions on average. Great logic.
 

ollinger

G.O.A.T.
"Gloria Steinem may not be the most trustworthy source...." Why not? My wife admires her greatly for the reasonableness of her feminism and got me to read two of her books -- I was impressed with her candor and fairness. What makes you think otherwise, Cal?
 

forzainter

Semi-Pro
You've hit on a big problem for USA Tennis-the lack of tv coverage. In England, tennis is on all the time! All the tournaments. Every week there is something to watch or tape. In the USA, I'm starved for tennis action on tv.





I live in Scotland, we get the same tv coverage as England, buy you only get every week tennis if you have sky or eurosport, the only time its free is at wimbledon.
 

heycal

Hall of Fame
"Gloria Steinem may not be the most trustworthy source...." Why not? My wife admires her greatly for the reasonableness of her feminism and got me to read two of her books -- I was impressed with her candor and fairness. What makes you think otherwise, Cal?
Well, for starters, there was the famous "phantom limb" cheating incident in her match against Betty Friedan when she was down 1-6,1-4 at the Leggs-Nair Finals in 1974. I completely lost respect for her after that.

Secondly, Ms. Magazine has never been about fair and accurate reporting in general, but particularly when it comes to tennis. Last month's issue had an article penned by Ms. Steinem herself claiming that not only did women's tennis draw more viewers than men's tennis, but more viewers than the Oscars and the Super Bowl combined. That's just laughable -- almost as bad as her famous appearance on the David Susskind show when she said that Chrissie Evert had a better serve than Roscoe Tanner.
 

thejerk

Semi-Pro
As for equal pay / play arguments, in this modern world of advertising-driven TV revenue, if we wanted actual earnings equity,it should be 'pay for share of TV revenue', and I think the women would earn more than equal money there....
Now, this I agree with. I would also consider this equal pay. They would be payed by the revenue "they" generated.

I don't consider what Wimby did equal pay. What Wimby is doing is paying the same for lesser play not paying for equal play.

The only way to give players "equal pay" is to give them shares of revenue equal to what what they have drawn of revenue.

Wimby decission makers are a joke. They are afraid to say, "We are paying women the same, not because of their play, but, because of their draw." People like me love to watch the women play. I prefer watching women. I am not upset with them because of their decission, but , because of their cowardice. I realize the Wimby officials need to be sensitive; they should also be truthful though. I don't believe they've been truthful.

Come on! You can't be serious!
 
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