Men & Women: Equal Prize Money [Merged]

[ollinger]

Uhh, what's laughable? If you've travelled much in the world, or for that matter just read the post above yours, you'll note that tennis is indeed on all the time all over the world, on Eurosport and other networks, so its total viewership likely far exceeds that of the Oscars or Super Bowl. And what EXACTLY did Steinem say about Evert vs. Tanner serving? Chris serves faster? You'll have to show us that. Higher serving percentage? Probably. And if you DO travel much, you'll also find that more womens tennis is broadcast, so I don't doubt the assertion of higher viewership. Magazines have fact-checkers who do nothing all day except check on the veracity of the information in articles ready to be published. You haven't demonstrated that any of those facts is wrong.

 

[mctennis]

A whiner like me..

Doesn't make sense. The road to get to the final for a woman is way shorter than the same road for a men's tennisplayer. The victoriuous woman just has to do way less for the same amount of money.

I agree. They also have to play best of three sets instead of 5. Plus the field is so weak to compete in.

 

[mctennis]

I have yet to see one good good argument in favor of women earning the same as men.

" Ditto" about this statement. Except being PC and all that crap.

 

[heycal]

Uhh, what's laughable? If you've travelled much in the world, or for that matter just read the post above yours, you'll note that tennis is indeed on all the time all over the world, on Eurosport and other networks, so its total viewership likely far exceeds that of the Oscars or Super Bowl. And what EXACTLY did Steinem say about Evert vs. Tanner serving? Chris serves faster? You'll have to show us that. Higher serving percentage? Probably. And if you DO travel much, you'll also find that more womens tennis is broadcast, so I don't doubt the assertion of higher viewership. Magazines have fact-checkers who do nothing all day except check on the veracity of the information in articles ready to be published. You haven't demonstrated that any of those facts is wrong.

Okay, I don't remember Steinem's exact quote on the David Susskind Show, but it was something like "I played an exhibition match against Chris Evert-Lloyd-Webber last spring, and let me tell you, she serves better than what I've seen from Roscoe". So I guess the definition of "better" is indeed vague here, but I will drop by the Muesum of Broadcasting next week to see if I can get a tape of the show to try and clear this up.

But I'm not sure why you insist on defending Steneim in the first place. Her hijinks in the Friedan match make Justine Henin-Hardenne look like a candidate for the Lady Byng Trophy in comparison, and the only reason Steinem made it to the finals of that tournament in the first place was because Germaine Greer --the Anna Kournikova of that era -- retired in the semis with patellar tendonitis.

As for fact checkers reliability, go peddle that to someone who's buying. Almost every magazine from Time to Vanity Fair has been succesfully sued for messing up the "facts", so I'll trust the TV rating numbers provided by both the A.C. Neilson and Y.A. Title companies before those provided by the WTA-bought-and-paid-for Sarah Lawrence graduates running Ms. Magazine. Didn't you say earlier in the thread that you had a nephew who worked for Mother Jones and has seen the real data on Ms. Magazine's readership numbers? Ms. has zero credibility on this issue.

 

[chess9]

I don't know about viewership numbers-men vs. women-but, the women outscore the men when it comes to endorsements in tennis. So, the women get paid MORE than the men already, counting endorsements. And, if I had to marry someone, I'd rather marry shriekapova than Gonzo. I don't know about sex.

 

[ollinger]

A daughter who works for ABC-TV, actually, and sees all the ratings data....and yes, women's tennis usually gets higher TV ratings than men's tennis. (And messing up facts doesn't get you "successfully sued" unless you can demonstrate malicious intent).

 

[heycal]

(And messing up facts doesn't get you "successfully sued" unless you can demonstrate malicious intent).

When it comes to public figures, yes. But the question of "malicious intent" is irrelevant here. I merely said magazines have been sued successfully for messing up the facts. Where were your fabled do-no-wrong fact checkers then? Why didn't your cousin at TV Guide stop the presses when he realized that Vanity Fair was slandering Roman Polanski when it said he was hitting on women enroute to his wife Sharon Stone's funeral after she was murdered by the Manson Family in 1869?

 

[heycal]

I don't know about sex.

I'm in favor of it personally.

 

[malakas]

Women -vs- Men: The (Huge) Equal Prize Money Thread

Justine Henin won the 2006 women's title in Paris
French Open officials have announced that they will award equal prize money to men and women from this year.
The tournament has been isolated after Wimbledon joined the United States and Australian Opens in opting to pay equal money across the board in all events.

The event had previously offered the same amount of money only to the champions and not in earlier rounds.

"The fact that all four Grand Slams are now equal sends an incredibly powerful signal," said Belgium's Justine Henin.

"There is no tournament that I feel closer to than Roland Garros, which makes the decision to treat the woman as equals very special to me personally."

And WTA chief executive officer Larry Scott also voiced his delight at the decision.

"This closes one chapter in the history of tennis and opens an exciting new one that will positively impact opportunities for women and girls in sport and society," he said.

link: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/tennis/6389635.stm

So,now all four slams will pay equal money to men and women.

 

[dima]

this is madness!


*waits for sparta joke*

 

[Heavy Metal Tennis Star]

 

[Tchocky]

Thumbs down.

 

[TalkingTennis91]

This is ridiculous. Call me a sexist, but women should not get equal prize money. This is outrageous. Either extended all of their matches to best 3 out of 5 sets, or pay them a little less. Also, the women's game is not as physically demanding as the men's game. Anyone agree with me on this one?

 

[Mick]

you guys just have to accept it because there is no way that they are going back to giving less prize money to the women.

 

[Hot Sauce]

I think the prize money should be related to the amount of revenue brought in by each sex.

 

[Tchocky]

The French surrender again!

 

[GOD_BLESS_RAFA]

This is ridiculous. Call me a sexist, but women should not get equal prize money. This is outrageous. Either extended all of their matches to best 3 out of 5 sets, or pay them a little less. Also, the women's game is not as physically demanding as the men's game. Anyone agree with me on this one?

Yes I could'nt agree more
Equal pay means equal performance it is like in offices hey

 

[slice bh compliment]

I think it's got less to do with the format or the length of matches in Slams....and more to do with other factors like ticket sales, sponsorship and TV rights. And the personalities and the quality of tennis on display.

I definitely watch more men's tennis than women's. Regardless of the scoring or the format or whatever (2 out of 3, 3 out of 5), I prefer the style. But, I'm thankful that our sport has so many women playing, and at a high level. The fact that tennis is by far the most prized women's sport says a lot, and I feel fortunate to be a tennis player.

I respect women so much. I love them. Why wouldn't anyone want women treated anything less than equally and with the utmost in dignity and respect? In sport (and in life).

Honestly though, I see this less as a rights issue and more as a free market issue. The fact that the prize money in Slams has been anywhere near equal is anomalous, given the week-in and week-out prize money disparity between WTA and ATP events over the rest of each year. Why is that? There must be some reason.

Who knows, maybe that is next. But I just do not see that happening unless the two tours merge.

 

[mmuubb]

Women's tennis...on clay...with equal money...that's simply too much to handle in my mind.

 

[Baghdatis72]

Well the equal pay for WTA and ATP hasn't changed my life and never will so it doesn't make a difference to me anyway. It seems that they pay the players for entertaining the crowds and for achieving something by going far in the Grand Slams and that's it. It's also a matter of sponsors and marketing and even though women play less sets it's still competitive and it requires skill to reach the final and win it. Even more having women play best of 3 instead of best of 5 and pay them the same as men is sexist by itself as it kind of shows that that's where their limit is.

 

[CanadianChic]

Excellent - my favourite scene from the movie.

Oh now as for the money that's all well and good, but I am still waiting for them to play five setters.

 

[WayneCM]

and the injustice continues, this is sexism my friends equal pay 4 play this is not fair on the male game that have to do so much more...

 

[Shabazza]

Honestly, I don't give a damn anymore. But having best of 5 matches at slams for women would mean those events would last 3 weeks, given their gamestyles.
5h 5 set matches with 100+ errors on both sides would become the norm. Why should I suffer watching those matches? Let them have equal prize money, but please no best of 5 sets women matches.
The only way I could live with best of 5 sets would be in the final.

 

[PimpMyGame]

Why don't they make GS events 5 sets for semis and final, 3 sets for previous rounds for both men and women? Seriously, how many finals would this have affected in recent years with rampant Roger not even dropping a set in the last GS?

I've got nothing against the equal pay thing but women have to be seen to work as hard to earn it.

 

[lorenza]

link: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/tennis/6389635.stm

So,now all four slams will pay equal money to men and women.

oh, sani, you disappoint me. you want women to get equal pay? :?

 

[kingdaddy41788]

The fact of the matter is that women do not sell as many tickets. People are more willing to pay to see the men play. It's like saying tickets to watch a futures tournament should cost as much as seeing a Grand Slam or a Masters Series tournament. Not as many people want to see it, so tickets can't cost as much, and so on and so forth. I don't even have a problem with women's tennis; at times it can be a bit more tactical than some of the men's hardcore power-based matches. But if they don't sell as many tickets, they shouldn't get paid as much. The only reason professional athletes are paid so well is because people are willing to pay so much to see them. That's the whole point.

 

[sypl]

I think women should play one set in the first four rounds, when the tennis is beyond awful, three sets for the quarters and semis, and a five-setter for the final.

I kinda liked how they did it at the French, with women getting less than the guys in the early rounds. Can you honestly put your hand on your heart and say that they really deserved equal pay there?

 

[malakas]

Yes I could'nt agree more
Equal pay means equal performance it is like in offices hey

No.
Equal pay means that they bring equal money to the purse.And guess what?They bring more.

 

[Ztalin]

this is.....

a story all about how, my life got twist-turned upside down...

 

[slice bh compliment]

this is.....

a story all about how, my life got twist-turned upside down...

That song is on the tip of my tongue. But I'm blanking. I'll probably think of it later.

Now I'm thinking Mister Wendal by Arrested Development. Nah.
If you hipsters get a moment: artist and title, please.

 

[CanadianChic]

That song is on the tip of my tongue. But I'm blanking. I'll probably think of it later.

Now I'm thinking Mister Wendal by Arrested Development. Nah.
If you hipsters get a moment: artist and title, please.

Wow, now I knew there was a reason I felt compelled to turn the computer on when all I needed was a glass of water.

Will Smith - Fresh Prince of Bel Air

Back to sleep I go.

 

[slice bh compliment]

Hahahah, well, that song is still haunting me.
But this time I'm hearing an English accent rapping it.

Is it Stereo MC's..."what a life"? Or something from the soundtrack to Basketball Diaries?

Sorry for the tangent.

Back to the equal pay discussion. But please do hook me up with the artist and title.

 

[CanadianChic]

Now this is the story all about how,
My life got flipped, turned upside down,
And I’d like to take a minute, just sit right there,
I’ll tell you how I became the prince of a town called Bel Air.

In West Philadelphia, born and raised
On the playground is where I spent most of my days.
Chillin’ out, maxin’, relaxin all cool,
And all shootin’ some b-ball outside of the school.

When a couple of guys who were up to no good,
Started makin’ trouble in my neighborhood.
I got in one little fight and my mom got scared,
And said You’re movin’ with your auntie and uncle in Bel Air.

I begged and pleaded with her the other day
But she packed my suitcase and sent me on my way
She gave me a kiss and she gave me my ticket
I put my walkman on and said I might as well kick it

First class, yo this is bad,
Drinking orange juice out of a champagne glass
Is this what the people of Bel-Air livin' like,
Hmm this might be alright!

But wait I hear the prissy, bushwa and all that
Is this the kind of place that they just send this cool cat?
I don't think so. I'll see when I get there.
I hope they're prepared for the Prince of Bel-Air!

The plane landed and when I came out
There was a dude,looked like a cop,
standin there with my name out
I ain't tryin to get arrested yet I just got here
I sprang with the quickness and like lightening disappeared

Well, I whistled for a cab, and when it came near,
The license plate said fresh and it had dice in the mirror.
If anything I could say that this cat was rare,
But I thought Nah forget it, "Yo home to Bel Air."

I pulled up to the house about seven or eight,
and I yelled to the cabby "Yo homes, smell ya later."
Looked at my kingdom, I was finally there,
To fill my throne as the Prince of Bel Air.


Ok, now I feel like I'm being punked. Not familiar with any other version other than Will Smith's and it was used as the theme for the t.v. show. But what do I know? It's five in the morning and I got up to give my cat his shot and a glass of water. Now I have this song in my head and I'm still sitting here googling. LOL.

 

[slice bh compliment]

No punk. Sorry, I was just too dense to get that you nailed it immediately. That it really was the theme to that show. Every time I played it in my head, I'd get a Beastie Boy or another white guy rapping.

Turns out it was Will Smith. Hmmmm.

Take it from me, parents just don't understand.

 

[CanadianChic]

No punk. Sorry, I was just too dense to get that you nailed it immediately. That it really was the theme to that show. Every time I played it in my head, I'd get a Beastie Boy or another white guy rapping.

Turns out it was Will Smith. Hmmmm.

Take it from me, parents just don't understand.

No worries - I thought I was way out in left field due to sleepiness and missed the point entirely. LOL.
The sad thing is I know all the words and recognized it immediately from the line. :grin:

 

[Ztalin]

That song is on the tip of my tongue. But I'm blanking. I'll probably think of it later.

Now I'm thinking Mister Wendal by Arrested Development. Nah.
If you hipsters get a moment: artist and title, please.

It's Will Smith and Jazz; the theme for Fresh Prince.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvDwIdqyr38&mode=related&search=

 

[sypl]

No.
Equal pay means that they bring equal money to the purse.And guess what?They bring more.

Really? I'd love to see some kinda proof of this. Are WTA events better attended than ATP events? Does anyone even bother broadcasting WTA events?

 

[malakas]

:roll:
broadcasting??Are you insane?That's what Eurosport does all the time!!!!!!It never stops showing WTA.Seems that you know nothing ..:/

 

[Kaptain Karl]

... and Richard Raskin is grinding his(?) teeth that he wasn't born 25 years later....

Watch the ATP petition to play only three set matches now that the girls get paid more per set....

Political Correctness gone mad.

- KK

 

[Kaptain Karl]

Equal pay means that they [the girls] bring equal money to the purse. And guess what? They bring more.

Proof please? What studies have you been reading? Where are they?

- KK

 

[malakas]

No,I haven't read any studies.But I fail to see the evidence supporting that men's game brings more either.
Just what I found from a quick search,here.

Tourwide attendance has risen in the past five years, to a record 4.5 million in 2002. With some $52 million in prize money, players are competing for $1 million more than last year -- though that's still about $25 million less than the men. After rising during the past few years, TV ratings are flattening but have still outranked the men in six of the past eight Grand Slam finals.

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/03_15/b3828130.htm

Meanwhile, ratings for women’s matches are on par with men’s matches and rising faster. The men’s and women’s finals of this April’s Nasdaq 100 Open in Miami drew the same number of television viewers. But that represented a ratings increase of 50 percent over last year for the women’s match, and only a 25 percent increase over last year for the men’s final. Even a tape-delayed match between the Williams sisters, whose result had already been reported, attracted nearly 350,000 television viewers at past midnight Eastern time, according to the Nasdaq 100 Open Web site.
In Dubai, the women’s championship has only been played since 2001. But it has already established that women are as much of a draw as men, with both equal attendance and television ratings. “We felt that it was important that the women’s tournament, which runs back-to-back with the [men's] week, had equal prize money, given that both weeks attract the top players and in turn attract an equal number of spectators,” said tournament spokeswoman Sinead El Sibai.
Many of the top women players have much higher profiles--and endorsement checks--than players on the men’s side, with the exception of Andre Agassi. “The women’s side has more superstars who transcend the sport,” Fry said. “They’re recognizable around the world.” Serena Williams, perhaps the best example of a female tennis superstar, has earned not just titles on the court, but also tens of millions of dollars in endorsement deals from companies like Nike, McDonalds and Avon.

http://jscms.jrn.columbia.edu/cns/2005-05-03/russell-tennisprizes/

Also,the AO final this year,and last year's USO had higher ratings in women than in men from what I remember.

 

[drakulie]

Sorry, but anybody who believes women bring in more revenue and interest to tennis than the men has no clue.

Food for thought: How many people on these very boards would continue to watch tennis, follow it, etc, if the men suddenly stopped playing?

I sure as heck wouldn't, and judging from the fact most of the threads on these very boards are about the men players and not the women, I think it is a safe bet to conclude that TW would cease to exist.

 

[malakas]

Yes, but the difference is that anyone who does the mistake of joining an internet board,where a poster drakulie posts, isn't a casual fans.Doesn't belong in the majority.The target-group.Isn't the one,the ratings are based on.

 

[drakulie]

^^ I agree. But go to a tennis tournament, and you could clearly see where the fans are flocking. It ain't the women's matches. Like I said, if the men were to disappear from tennis the sport woudl die. Not the same could be said about the women.

 

[Dunlopkid]

Sorry, but anybody who believes women bring in more revenue and interest to tennis than the men has no clue.

Food for thought: How many people on these very boards would continue to watch tennis, follow it, etc, if the men suddenly stopped playing?

I sure as heck wouldn't, and judging from the fact most of the threads on these very boards are about the men players and not the women, I think it is a safe bet to conclude that TW would cease to exist.

Definitely right Drak. The Pro Player Discussion would have no threads:grin:

 

[Kaptain Karl]

malakas - You made the claim that the girls "bring more money to the purse." Your two "sources" you linked didn't support your claim. Both pieces read more like editorials than articles containing objective information. And both used "euphamistic" wording that (at best) claimed the WTA approached the attraction of the ATP.

Since "attraction" isn't the same as "bringing dollars to the purse," how do these pieces support your argument?

- KK

 

[rfprse]

Also,the AO final this year,and last year's USO had higher ratings in women than in men from what I remember.

No, Last year, the rating for men's u.s. open final was 4.1 and women's was 3.2 in U.S.

The "article"s seem either old or somewhat lacking credential.
Both of them talk about the time when williams sisters were dominant and other u.s. female players were prominent.
Of course, in U.S., the finals that include americans would generate good rating. It's not about WTA players/tour in general bring more money. Even at that time wta tour as a whole didn't seem to prosper.
And considering the difference in terms of prize money between tours, other than majors, you can see it's hardly the case that wta brings in more money.

 

[forzainter]

Women -vs- Men: The (Huge) Equal Prize Money Thread

yes, womens tennis (ivanovic vs golovin, and these are very highly ranked women), the play was so boring and just error after error after error, arghhhh, it should be a criminal offence that they get the same prize money in grand slams, how does everyone else feel about this, and if you saw the match, how boring was it?

 

[theballboy]

Women's footspeed is (relatively) close to men's footsppeed. However, the substantial strength advantage men have over women allows them to hit the ball with much greater force. That's why a very fast women's serve would clock about 120 mph, while a very fast men's serve is regularly in the 140's.

So it makes complete sense that women would be able to track down each other's balls, resulting in less winners and more unforced errors.

The same thing happens to men on clay: MUCH less winners and aces, to the point where Sampras' and Roddick's serves become almost moot, longer rallies, with points hinging on who can hit the ball back most consistently. In fact, Amelia Island IS clay, but not trye red clay.

 

[MEAC_ALLAMERICAN]

Women's footspeed is (relatively) close to men's footsppeed. However, the substantial strength advantage men have over women allows them to hit the ball with much greater force. That's why a very fast women's serve would clock about 120 mph, while a very fast men's serve is regularly in the 140's.

So it makes complete sense that women would be able to track down each other's balls, resulting in less winners and more unforced errors.

The same thing happens to men on clay: MUCH less winners and aces, to the point where Sampras' and Roddick's serves become almost moot, longer rallies, with points hinging on who can hit the ball back most consistently. In fact, Amelia Island IS clay, but not trye red clay.

"Relatively"????
I am a big fan of tennis in general and physically the women’s game can’t hold a candle to the men’s game. If you look at some men’s matches you would see no matter the surface the quality is rather high, in terms of winners/unforced errors, aces..etc. Anyway, watched the match and it was quite in fact BORING and not of any quality