Men's Open Tourney: USTA 4.5 vs Top 300 Junior

timtennis

timtennis

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Hey TTW, this is Tim aka tennistim on YouTube. I played my second ever Open tourney a few weeks ago and after winning first two matches, went up against the #1 seed and UTR 11 player Joshua Maxwell Conlin https://www.tennisrecruiting.net/player.asp?id=790982 Really nice kid who didn't mind my recording our match.

I'm usually not one to self-promote, but it's rare I get the opportunity to play such a good player and get it on film. Please take a look and let me know here (or via comment on YouTube) what you think, thanks!

 
timtennis said:
Hey TTW, this is Tim aka tennistim on YouTube. I played my second ever Open tourney a few weeks ago and after winning first two matches, went up against the #1 seed and UTR 11 player Joshua Maxwell Conlin https://www.tennisrecruiting.net/player.asp?id=790982 Really nice kid who didn't mind my recording our match.

I'm usually not one to self-promote, but it's rare I get the opportunity to play such a good player and get it on film. Please take a look and let me know here (or via comment on YouTube) what you think, thanks!

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Thanks for posting this
 
Haven't looked at your post match comments yet. Your opponent didn't look all that special, but he played really consistent, and smart percentage tennis. He moved well and was in good position for a lot of his shots. These guys for me can be a nightmare to play, since they anticipate so well where you feel like you have to hit more than one winner just to win most points.
 
Also Tim congrats on your tourney success. You have a nice game and as a fellow 4.5 player it's been fun to watch your matches. At 45 I'm slowing down and mostly just play doubles these days.
 
great hitting. completely understand the issues of playing back to back to back matches.
 
Mongolmike said:
Wow, that kid was/is good indeed! Match actually looked closer than the score! Good effort on your part, good test!
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Thanks! I neglected to mention in the video he committed to play Division 3 for Babson as well. He currently trains/plays nearly every day, competes in tournaments on the weekends.
 
jhick said:
Also Tim congrats on your tourney success. You have a nice game and as a fellow 4.5 player it's been fun to watch your matches. At 45 I'm slowing down and mostly just play doubles these days.
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Thanks, appreciate it. I'm fortunately still relatively young (turn 28 this year) and I'm trying to improve my singles game to 5.0 level before I turn 30. Will be a different lifestyle once I get married, have kids, etc. haha
 
timtennis said:
Thanks, appreciate it. I'm fortunately still relatively young (turn 28 this year) and I'm trying to improve my singles game to 5.0 level before I turn 30. Will be a different lifestyle once I get married, have kids, etc. haha
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Yep, kids at age 30 slowed me down from playing 3-4 times per week to 1-2. And that's around the time I started transitioning more exclusively to doubles, which for me was a more smooth transition than for some since I excelled in doubles in high school & college.
 
timtennis said:
Even with proper warm-down, stretching, it's a lot. I've adapted a much condensed version of Andy Murray's insane post-match routine and it helps with recovery for sure.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3669132/Murray-s-three-hour-ordeal-matches.html
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interesting thx!
i think if it had to play 3 2h matches in 2 days i'd definitely invest in a cryotherapy visit
https://www.**************.org/tenn...-and-more-use-cryotheraphy-machine-in-madrid/

weird, sensoring link... just google "tennis cryotherapy nadal djokovic"
 
nytennisaddict said:
interesting thx!
i think if it had to play 3 2h matches in 2 days i'd definitely invest in a cryotherapy visit
https://www.**************.org/tenn...-and-more-use-cryotheraphy-machine-in-madrid/

weird, sensoring link... just google "tennis cryotherapy nadal djokovic"
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I've actually tried cryo! There are a few spots here in the Bay Area. It worked wonders the first time I did it, when I had to play 3 matches over 2 days in a 4.5 tourney. My last match went to a super-tie and it may have made just that bit of a difference in my eking out the win. Didn't have enough time to schedule the session and go between matches this time.
 
timtennis said:
Hey TTW, this is Tim aka tennistim on YouTube. I played my second ever Open tourney a few weeks ago and after winning first two matches, went up against the #1 seed and UTR 11 player Joshua Maxwell Conlin https://www.tennisrecruiting.net/player.asp?id=790982 Really nice kid who didn't mind my recording our match.

I'm usually not one to self-promote, but it's rare I get the opportunity to play such a good player and get it on film. Please take a look and let me know here (or via comment on YouTube) what you think, thanks!

Click to expand...

nice video. all i can say is, i wish i could lose a match 2-2 like that! nicely played. early on he nailed you a couple times with bh slice, and rather than re-slicing the low ball back, you tried to hit a normal 2hbh...but his ball was too low for you to get under it enough, so you dumped into the net. you adjusted nicely later on though. I'd say the main difference was definitely the fitness...had your legs stayed true you could have eked out some more games.

but dude...this is coming from a 48yr old +20lb dad-bod who just started playing about 10 years ago...if i could get half that match in that would be nirvana. congrats on the good showing in the tourney.
 
timtennis said:
Please take a look and let me know here (or via comment on YouTube) what you think, thanks!
Click to expand...
Very nice video Tim, and I really like your game.

jhick said:
Haven't looked at your post match comments yet. Your opponent didn't look all that special, but he played really consistent, and smart percentage tennis. He moved well and was in good position for a lot of his shots.
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Yeah, I skipped right to the match, so I'm not sure what the comments were. Excuse me if I say something goofy with that in mind.

At first I thought the young guy was a little underwhelming, but the more I saw him play I think he's deceptively good. The guy seems to have a really good feel for what it's going to take for him to win a point, and he has the patience to stick with it. This is a big differentiator at the smaller college level. I imagine that he'd have increased his aggressiveness if Tim took a couple more of those games off him.

timtennis said:
He currently trains/plays nearly every day, competes in tournaments on the weekends.
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No doubt he moves really well at the baseline, and that complicates your ability to build a point by getting him out of position.

You hit the ball with good depth consistently, and against a lot of people that's going to give them trouble. Against this opponent, I would've liked to see what happens if you go short to his backhand with some regularity. There's something about the mechanics of his backhand, and how he plays it as a relatively low, flat shot that I think would present an opportunity. Low slice especially to make him bend those long legs.

And, no offense intended here, but trying to tease out some ideas from a short match:
- Your overheads seemed weaker than the rest of your game. You set him up nicely on a couple points, but ended up placing the overhead right back to him.
- Be careful just slicing backhands into the center of the court. Making them move either way will make it much more effective.

Bringing together all of these thoughts, you looked to move well both along the baseline and into the court. When I'm facing someone whose groundstrokes are better than mine, I like to lean heavily into the "vertical" court game. I think you might have success by approaching after hitting low slices to his backhand. You've got the speed to recover should he lob, as long as you feel good with your volleys.

Thanks for the post, was fun to watch.
 
timtennis said:
Hey TTW, this is Tim aka tennistim on YouTube. I played my second ever Open tourney a few weeks ago and after winning first two matches, went up against the #1 seed and UTR 11 player Joshua Maxwell Conlin https://www.tennisrecruiting.net/player.asp?id=790982 Really nice kid who didn't mind my recording our match.

I'm usually not one to self-promote, but it's rare I get the opportunity to play such a good player and get it on film. Please take a look and let me know here (or via comment on YouTube) what you think, thanks!

Click to expand...

You should self-promote: you've got a great game!

In addition to the slice, especially the low/angled one, did you think about
- trying to bring him to the net: he's obviously super comfortable on the BL but what if you could drag him out of his comfort zone?
- try some S&V: again, more of a [dis]comfort zone for him

Patience is one of my weaknesses. That, combined with the knowledge that I'm not as consistent as my opponent, usually result in me attacking earlier rather than later. That's what I would have done in this case: I would have lost but I'd be using my strengths and avoiding my weaknesses.

Keep the matches coming!
 
Nice hitting!

Do you have a slice approach shot in your arsenal?

Look at 7:30. What if you had come in behind balls like that in this match? He's tall and doesn't seem to get down real well for low balls - he was generally slicing them back. I think a slice approach could be effective against a guy like this. IME, the taller they are (and especially if 2HBH), the more I feed them slices. You are hitting most of your balls right into his wheelhouse...

Also, did you ever dropshot him to break up the rallies and get him out of his comfort zone? Bringing him to net on your terms can also be effective if he's not super comfortable there... (couldn't really tell his comfort at net, as he generally only came in behind kill shots)
 
WhiteOut said:
nice video. all i can say is, i wish i could lose a match 2-2 like that! nicely played. early on he nailed you a couple times with bh slice, and rather than re-slicing the low ball back, you tried to hit a normal 2hbh...but his ball was too low for you to get under it enough, so you dumped into the net. you adjusted nicely later on though. I'd say the main difference was definitely the fitness...had your legs stayed true you could have eked out some more games.

but dude...this is coming from a 48yr old +20lb dad-bod who just started playing about 10 years ago...if i could get half that match in that would be nirvana. congrats on the good showing in the tourney.
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thanks for watching. you should have seen the 4th semifinalist...in his mid-40s, played serve and volley style. took another legit junior to 3rd set super tie!
 
ShaunS said:
Very nice video Tim, and I really like your game.

And, no offense intended here, but trying to tease out some ideas from a short match:
- Your overheads seemed weaker than the rest of your game. You set him up nicely on a couple points, but ended up placing the overhead right back to him.
- Be careful just slicing backhands into the center of the court. Making them move either way will make it much more effective.

Bringing together all of these thoughts, you looked to move well both along the baseline and into the court. When I'm facing someone whose groundstrokes are better than mine, I like to lean heavily into the "vertical" court game. I think you might have success by approaching after hitting low slices to his backhand. You've got the speed to recover should he lob, as long as you feel good with your volleys.

Thanks for the post, was fun to watch.
Click to expand...

No offense taken at all, appreciate the feedback. I normally hit overheads fine, this kid just lobbed insanely well...made it tough. Agreed on leaning into vertical court game more. Definitely an adjustment because it's quite different from my usual/preferred style of play, but necessary against these guys with super solid groundies.
 
Nice match Tim! If you were settled in, I think you could have made it close.

Have you noticed any level difference in league play between SoCal and NorCal so far?
 
eshin said:
Nice match Tim! If you were settled in, I think you could have made it close.

Have you noticed any level difference in league play between SoCal and NorCal so far?
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Good question, 4.5 league is about to start in NorCal, so I'll have a better answer in about a month or so for basis of comparison. I think generally both regions are quite strong. It can be tougher to play consistently in San Francisco due to low supply of lit, quality courts and bit more rain, but overall can't complain.
 
eshin said:
Nice match Tim! If you were settled in, I think you could have made it close.

Have you noticed any level difference in league play between SoCal and NorCal so far?
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Out of curiosity, where do you play? And have you experienced differences in competitive level playing between regions?
 
@timtennis Since you enjoy playing juniors, this summer you could play ITA summer circuit tourneys that draw HS juniors and seniors and college players (mostly D3 and MM-the higher D1s play Futures and prize $). The tourneys are really opens as anyone (I think over 13) can play who buys an ITA summer membership. Tourneys start on Fri or Sat and run 2-3 days, first round consolation with 1-3 draws of 32 depending on interest. There were 50 tourneys last year with players from unranked to UTR 6 to UTR 13 with probably most in the 9-12 range. Matches are 3rd set TB with probably 2 matches a day. The lower flight would probably be players under UTR 10.5. Last summer, there were 50+ tourneys over 6 weeks with 1-2 tourneys in Cali each week. Here is the link to last year https://www.itatennis.com/ITA/Event...spx?hkey=0e2b8779-8df7-4ff1-bd13-029c64860642 The 2019 calendar probably wont be out until May. My son never played those as he preferred full 3rd but they are a great option for many juniors, collegians, and adults.

I am always glad to see adults who want to play juniors as if there were more crossplay between juniors and adults of similar level, parents would not have to spent as much at academies plus juniors would be exposed to different styles of play. Ranked juniors need to be humbled occasionally by losing to an adult who is consistent, places his shots well, and knows his game plan. My son once lost to a 35 y/o in a WC open; he thought he would win by tiring the guy out; instead the guy placed his shots so well, my son was the one running around and getting wrecked. Ended up the guy was a former pro (had reached a high of 225) who had played the pro circuit off and on for 18 years.

Keep working on your game. We knew this kid who started playing at 14, was losing to good middle schoolers still at 16, just an average HS player at an average HS at that age. caught the tennis bug, convinced his mom to move to Florida. Trained down there, got better, supported himself by working at academies and driving Uber. He didnt go to college, but he earned an ATP point at 23. Now with the new Tour changes that guy wont be going further, but if he loves tennis, he can still coach. Anyway, keep challenging yourself, play weekend tourneys when you can, and maybe you can reach UTR 10+ and along the way provide some good matchplay for local juniors. Win win.
 
timtennis said:
Out of curiosity, where do you play? And have you experienced differences in competitive level playing between regions?
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I play out of SoCal and I've played with people from different sections, but since skill levels vary so much even within one level in one section (SoCal 4.5 for example), it's hard to draw any conclusions.
 
jcgatennismom said:
@timtennis Since you enjoy playing juniors, this summer you could play ITA summer circuit tourneys that draw HS juniors and seniors and college players (mostly D3 and MM-the higher D1s play Futures and prize $). The tourneys are really opens as anyone (I think over 13) can play who buys an ITA summer membership. Tourneys start on Fri or Sat and run 2-3 days, first round consolation with 1-3 draws of 32 depending on interest. There were 50 tourneys last year with players from unranked to UTR 6 to UTR 13 with probably most in the 9-12 range. Matches are 3rd set TB with probably 2 matches a day. The lower flight would probably be players under UTR 10.5. Last summer, there were 50+ tourneys over 6 weeks with 1-2 tourneys in Cali each week. Here is the link to last year https://www.itatennis.com/ITA/Event...spx?hkey=0e2b8779-8df7-4ff1-bd13-029c64860642 The 2019 calendar probably wont be out until May. My son never played those as he preferred full 3rd but they are a great option for many juniors, collegians, and adults.

I am always glad to see adults who want to play juniors as if there were more crossplay between juniors and adults of similar level, parents would not have to spent as much at academies plus juniors would be exposed to different styles of play. Ranked juniors need to be humbled occasionally by losing to an adult who is consistent, places his shots well, and knows his game plan. My son once lost to a 35 y/o in a WC open; he thought he would win by tiring the guy out; instead the guy placed his shots so well, my son was the one running around and getting wrecked. Ended up the guy was a former pro (had reached a high of 225) who had played the pro circuit off and on for 18 years.

Keep working on your game. We knew this kid who started playing at 14, was losing to good middle schoolers still at 16, just an average HS player at an average HS at that age. caught the tennis bug, convinced his mom to move to Florida. Trained down there, got better, supported himself by working at academies and driving Uber. He didnt go to college, but he earned an ATP point at 23. Now with the new Tour changes that guy wont be going further, but if he loves tennis, he can still coach. Anyway, keep challenging yourself, play weekend tourneys when you can, and maybe you can reach UTR 10+ and along the way provide some good matchplay for local juniors. Win win.
Click to expand...

Wow thanks for this tip! I hadn't heard of this ITA circuit before, but looks very promising! I do wish there were more events in Northern California, as most of the CA events look to be around SoCal, but the competition prob makes the drive worth it!

Re: crossplay btw juniors and adults—absolutely agreed! I think adults and juniors can both get a lot of benefit out of it. From my limited experience thus far, it seems that juniors have less of a steady mental game. They can get down on themselves more quickly and cough up points and games before course correcting. There is also a bit less variety in junior play these days (heavy spin, mostly ground game, no one comes to net anymore). That said, juniors are athletic, can run for days, and have great stamina/consistency from training pretty much every day.
 
eshin said:
I play out of SoCal and I've played with people from different sections, but since skill levels vary so much even within one level in one section (SoCal 4.5 for example), it's hard to draw any conclusions.
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Yeah I agree...I played at 18-39 singles league sectionals this past weekend for NorCal and there was quite a disparity in level from the different sections even at playoff level. Quite a few sandbaggers...
 
@timtennis Great video! I also enjoyed the one you posted today vs the 5.5 woman doubles. I've watched maybe 5 vids of yours and have been impressed by how balanced your game is. Good forehand, backhand, serve, movement, everything.

I have the same experience as you as I've always been a singles player and recently started playing more doubles. A couple things that I noticed that you can improve.
Serve: You rotate very nicely but I feel that you need to move your body weight forward through the shot a bit more. Like land half foot in front of where you are landing now. Your serve is already super good but creating some forward movement with your body will give you an extra "easy" +5ph and will take away some strain off your arm.
Volleys: In doubles you need to have a bit more the "finish" mentality than the "place the ball".

Of course you will naturally refine these things the more you play so it is great that you get to hit with this kind of players. Very educating.

Btw, you are a 4.5 but to me you are closer to 5 than 4.5. How long before you are (and the results prove) a 5? And what do you think you need to do to get there?
 
@timtennis Just saw that 2019 ITA summer circuit tentative schedule is out with 9 CA sites over the 6 weeks. https://itatennis.com/ITA/Events/EventsCalendar/2019_Summer_Circuit_Powered_by_UTR.aspx
"for NCAA compliance purposes, the events are categorized as “open”; therefore, anyone (including high level juniors and adults) is eligible to compete in these events as long as he/she is a current ITA member. The ITA Summer Circuit is currently made up of 59 events over six consecutive weekends, beginning in mid- June and continuing through the last weekend in July.
ITA Summer Playing Membership All participants must purchase a 2019 ITA Summer Playing Membership ($30) in order to compete in a Summer Circuit event. Membership will become available May 1st. "

Most weekends there is an event in the Mid west, Florida, NE, 1-2 events in South, 1-2 in Cali, plus miscellaneous other regions. If you are a 4.5 wanting to play some juniors or collegians from D3 to D1, consider a summer membership. There should be multiple flights in most events to keep them competitive.
 
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