Mental toughness - Alcaraz v Sinner

[nolefam_2024]

I don't hate him, but why should I love him?

He was hard to connect with even before the doping stuff. And now...even less relatable

Yes there is no compulsion to love any player.

What I have seen from the players from smaller countries like Serbia Romania Argentina and now evidently Italy, is the fans become so obnoxious that people hate players because of them.

Happened with Djokovic.
Will happen with Fonseca.
Happened with Halep.

 

[Rosstour]

Yes there is no compulsion to love any player.

What I have seen from the players from smaller countries like Serbia Romania Argentina and now evidently Italy, is the fans become so obnoxious that people hate players because of them.

Happened with Djokovic.
Will happen with Fonseca.
Happened with Halep.

It isn't Italians driving Sinnermania IMO

 

[Winner Sinner]

Before Sinner went on the juice, he lost a lot of matches through mental muggery, and I can remember specifically how tilted he got by Tiafoe and his antics in one loss. He still doesn't beat Alcaraz because Alcaraz exposes him and reminds him of who he is

Sinner against Alcaraz won 4 out of 7 challenges played when Alcaraz was clearly better positioned than him in the rankings.

For strange reasons according to some of you it seems that the h2h between the two is 10-0 in favor of Alcaraz.

Last year at least Sinner always came (apart from Wimbledon) to challenge him in the moments of maximum inspiration of Alcaraz, including in two contexts (Indian Wells and Roland Garros) where Alcaraz's style of play thrives.
While in all the moments of maximum inspiration of Sinner Alcaraz punctually missed the appointment getting eliminated early.

Having said that, I can't wait for the next challenge between the two, even this urban legend that Alcaraz is unbeatable for Sinner will fall.
At that moment I will wait on the river bank waiting for the corpse of @nolefam_2024 to pass by (let us remember someone who gave importance to the challenge of Riyadh, and now contradicts himself) metaphorically speaking.

 

[nolefam_2024]

It isn't Italians driving Sinnermania IMO

Maybe, maybe not.

 

[Winner Sinner]

Yes there is no compulsion to love any player.

What I have seen from the players from smaller countries like Serbia Romania Argentina and now evidently Italy, is the fans become so obnoxious that people hate players because of them.

Happened with Djokovic.
Will happen with Fonseca.
Happened with Halep.

Italy a small country?

It literally has about 60 million inhabitants, top ten in the world for inhabitants per square kilometer.

But is there an area where you are expert in something, or are you incompetent in everything?

 

[Aabye5]

In reality, it is more Vagnozzi who gives technical advice during the various matches.
For example, in the final of the 2024 Australian Open against Medvedev in the second set that was already compromised, Vagnozzi told him "use these remaining games to try to do something different".

Everyone receives advice during the match, but it is the frequency that makes the difference.
Alcaraz is one of the players most guided by his coach.

Check out Cahill touching his hat. There is definitely signaling going on. Vagnozzi is more verbal.

 

[Rosstour]

Maybe, maybe not.

It's people who rooted for Thiem, then Rune

Ask them how they feel about Tiafoe and Shelton

 

[Winner Sinner]

Check out Cahill touching his hat. There is definitely signaling going on. Vagnozzi is more verbal.

I repeat, I do not doubt that Sinner like any other player receives advice during the match, the difference is in the frequency.
Alcaraz is known to everyone for being driven by Ferrero, one of the criticisms that is most often leveled at him.
How many times before a service have we seen Alcaraz look at his box and nod?

Having said that, it is a clearly balanced challenge where it is impossible to establish precise parameters.
This data also demonstrates it in situations of under pressure where Sinner and Alcaraz are at all time level in fifth and sixth position respectively;

Leaderboard | ATP Tour | Tennis

Statistical measures of the best-performing players in three key categories in men's professional tennis.

www.atptour.com

Unlike @nolefam_2024 who tries to sell smoke with his disgusting propaganda, I report data and facts.

 

[nolefam_2024]

I repeat, I do not doubt that Sinner like any other player receives advice during the match, the difference is in the frequency.
Alcaraz is known to everyone for being driven by Ferrero, one of the criticisms that is most often leveled at him.
How many times before a service have we seen Alcaraz look at his box and nod?

Having said that, it is a clearly balanced challenge where it is impossible to establish precise parameters.
This data also demonstrates it in situations of under pressure where Sinner and Alcaraz are at all time level in fifth and sixth position respectively;

Leaderboard | ATP Tour | Tennis

Statistical measures of the best-performing players in three key categories in men's professional tennis.

www.atptour.com

Unlike @nolefam_2024 who tries to sell smoke with his disgusting propaganda, I report data and facts.

I don't write 1000 words essays to confuse myself and others. What is disgusting about what I said? That sinner folds under pressure like an old umbrella? It's the truth. You not liking something doesn't make it disgusting but it shows your ability to hear truth.

 

[nolefam_2024]

I just need to put criteria vs top 10 and then raz becomes top 4 and sinner becomes 25th.

When stats are calculated for long time, they don't fluctuate as much. But sinner stats are all heavily influenced by a season. He might be able to improve a lot on mental toughness in the future. But till now he has not gone beyond alcaraz .

 

[Winner Sinner]

I don't write 1000 words essays to confuse myself and others. What is disgusting about what I said? That sinner folds under pressure like an old umbrella? It's the truth. You not liking something doesn't make it disgusting but it shows your ability to hear truth.

Ahahahah

The player who in the last 12 months is the one who boasts the best rating in under pressure situations (and fifth all time), the one who always in the last 12 months struggles to lose a tiebreak, who has the clearly highest percentage of break points saved, is one who under pressure folds like an umbrella?

But what truth are you talking about?
The one that exists in your dream world?

Keep selling smoke.

 

[Winner Sinner]

I just need to put criteria vs top 10 and then raz becomes top 4 and sinner becomes 25th.

When stats are calculated for long time, they don't fluctuate as much. But sinner stats are all heavily influenced by a season. He might be able to improve a lot on mental toughness in the future. But till now he has not gone beyond alcaraz .

Single season where the h2h between the two says 3-0 Alcaraz, because overall it is 6-4 in favor of Alcaraz, given that Alcaraz before 2024 was down 4-3 in h2h.

And yet you base your thesis exclusively on the 2024 h2h.
And then you make the speech about the fluctuating statistics.

You are the contradiction personified.

 

[nolefam_2024]

Is there anyone wanting to buy some smoke?

I have to sell it now before my liver explodes..

 

[Winner Sinner]

Let's remember that @nolefam_2024 was the one who said that the Riyadh tournament was relevant for h2h.
And instead now he denies himself by continually contradicting himself, a modus operandi that comes naturally.

 

[sportsfan1]

Sinner against the tour overall.
But Carlos has so far got the edge when playing against Sinner, although Sinner is likely to reverse it at some point.

 

[Impetus]

If mental toughness is playing the same high level game again and again, Sinner is the man.
If mental toughness is being clutch, Alcaraz is the man.

Mental toughness is mostly about stability for me and Sinner is without doubt the most stabile.

 

[nolefam_2024]

Pressure points vs top 10
Raz 4th Sinner 25th

Vs top 20
Raz 10th Sinner 9th

Vs top 50
Raz 10th Sinner 7th

Overall
Raz 6th Sinner 5th

If we had even more details like vs top 5, we would see extreme gap between Sinner and Raz.

@Impetus @Pheasant

Yes Sinner is day to day tougher but when it comes to top matches its straight away to Alcaraz. And this is just beginning for both the guys, Raz will automatically get better vs these low ranked players as he ages on.

 

[Winner Sinner]

Is there anyone wanting to buy some smoke?

I have to sell it now before my liver explodes..

Don't be too easy to be ironic while waiting for someone else's approval, a typical modus operandi of those who hide insecurities.

Stay on top of things.
It's all too easy to make fun of your incompetence on the subject.

You're listing a disproportionate amount of inaccuracies, take note of that.

Someone who claims that Sinner bends like an old umbrella under pressure obviously doesn't know much about tennis.
Just like selling the story that Sinner gave up in the Miami final against Hurkacz.
Lacking the killer instinct doesn't mean giving up.
Sinner has always shown himself to be a player who bends but doesn't break.
But you can't understand him from the depths of your incompetence on the subject.

 

[TennisGrandpA]

I don't write 1000 words essays to confuse myself and others. What is disgusting about what I said? That sinner folds under pressure like an old umbrella? It's the truth. You not liking something doesn't make it disgusting but it shows your ability to hear truth.

Meddy match at Wimbledon was clearly winnable after taking the lead and being in prime and should have won against Carlos after going 2-1 at RG, that also hint that he’s not as strong in that department.

 

[nolefam_2024]

Meddy match at Wimbledon was clearly winnable after taking the lead and being in prime and should have won against Carlos after going 2-1 at RG, that also hint that he’s not as strong in that department.

He has just folded in many matches and sets where he could have done more. I think that is because of lack of variety. He is adding on it but currently its just 1 pace bulldozing at which he is very best , almost best ever.

 

[nolefam_2024]

Eg take that Medvedev match in Wimbledon. Medvedev played great vs both Sinner and Alcaraz but Raz beat him in 4.

Sinner went 20/28 on netpoints vs Meddy

SIN 2-3 MED | Jannik Sinner - Daniil Medvedev

www.flashscore.com

Raz went 38/53 on netpoints in much smaller match.

MED 1-3 ALC | Daniil Medvedev - Carlos Alcaraz

www.flashscore.com

Raz has more options as of today.

 

[tennis24x7]

In reality, it is more Vagnozzi who gives technical advice during the various matches.
For example, in the final of the 2024 Australian Open against Medvedev in the second set that was already compromised, Vagnozzi told him "use these remaining games to try to do something different".

Everyone receives advice during the match, but it is the frequency that makes the difference.
Alcaraz is one of the players most guided by his coach.

Hands down it like Alcaraz is a willing puppy, everytime a point is over looks to his box/coach. Time to stop that, you are a man now. I think this trend started with Rafa.

 

[Aabye5]

I don't write 1000 words essays to confuse myself and others. What is disgusting about what I said? That sinner folds under pressure like an old umbrella? It's the truth. You not liking something doesn't make it disgusting but it shows your ability to hear truth.

But it's not exactly true. Which matches has he folded from a mental perspective? A physical one, yes, but not really mental.

 

[Winner Sinner]

H2H Sinner vs Alcaraz
Number of break points/break points converted
Tiebreaks won

Paris Bercy 2021
Sinner
1/2
0
Alcaraz
2/11
1

Wimbledon 2022
Sinner
4/12
0
Alcaraz
0/7
1

Umag 2022
Sinner
5/9
0
Alcaraz
0/9
1

Us Open 2022
Sinner
7/16
2
Alcaraz
11/26
0

Indian Wells 2023
Sinner
1/2
0
Alcaraz
2/6
1

Miami 2023
Sinner
6/12
0
Alcaraz
3/12
1

Beijing 2023
Sinner
5/8
1
Alcaraz
2/9
0

Indian Wells 2024
Sinner
2/4
0
Alcaraz
3/6
0

Roland Garros 2024
Sinner
6/10
0
Alcaraz
6/14
0

Beijing 2024
Sinner
2/6
1
Alcaraz
3/15
1

Total
Sinner
39/81
4
Alcaraz
32/115
6

So in the direct clashes of the 10 tiebreaks played, 6 were won by Alcaraz and 4 by Sinner.
While the substantial difference is in the conversion of break points, Sinner converts 48.1% of break points while Alcaraz only 27.8%, consequently Sinner saved 72.2% of break points while Alcaraz only 51.9%.

On match points, obviously Sinner is the only one of the two who lost a match in which he had match points (US Open 2022).

Sinner also had two match points in the tiebreak then lost in the third set in the match he won anyway at Wimbledon 2022.

While on set points not converted within sets then lost, I remember the 4 of which 3 consecutive in the second set at 6-5 at the US Open 2022 for Alcaraz in return, the one in the first set by Sinner in response at 6-5 at Indian Wells 2023, and the 2 by Alcaraz in the first set of the final in Beijing 2024, one at 6-5, and the other in the tiebreak where Sinner cancelled the set point with a sensational return.

 

[nolefam_2024]

But it's not exactly true. Which matches has he folded from a mental perspective? A physical one, yes, but not really mental.

Yes physical is same as mental. If you want matches we have to go back to less than a year and half .

 

[Winner Sinner]

@nolefam_2024 I would like you to comment on these two data;

39/81
32/115

 

[Winner Sinner]

Actually, no, there were 3 set points that Sinner cancelled in the first set of the Beijing 2024 final.
One at 30-40 5-6, and the other two at 4-6 in the tiebreak.

 

[Winner Sinner]

@nolefam_2024 I would like you to comment on these two data;

39/81
32/115

@nolefam_2024 did you lose your word?
Sorry if I reported other data that exposes your inadequacy.
Anyway, when you want to comment, those data are there, they don't run away.

 

[a10best]

Alcaraz has mental weakness against Djokovic and other upstarts. Sinner is past that rookie wonder phase.

 

[vwanderaa]

The people's judgment seems to have sided with Sinner in this case, as had already happened in the previous survey extended to players of the post-big three generations.

Alcaraz pays for all the embarrassing defeats that occurred, let's say, post Wimbledon 2023, where he often gave up without a fight.
Even the fact that he still has to be guided by Ferrero during the match does not help to make him appear so mentally solid.

And Sinner pays for none of his embarrassing defeats before turning 22 (when he had a 25% win rate against the Top 10) because of recency bias, as expected. But as I said, this will just age badly - no point in arguing.

As for your last point, you are not watching Alcaraz matches or not understanding Spanish. Ferrero has been either mute or just cheerleading for at least a year now. He has had 0 input during matches for either wins or losses.

Vagnozzi and Cahill contribute far more tactically during a match and have turned around more matches in the past year than Ferrero’s “Vamosing”

 

[SpinToWin]

@nolefam_2024 did you lose your word?
Sorry if I reported other data that exposes your inadequacy.
Anyway, when you want to comment, those data are there, they don't run away.

my dude take a chill pill lol you’d think the man spat on your mother with how heated you’re getting. It’s not that serious

 

[Aabye5]

Yes physical is same as mental. If you want matches we have to go back to less than a year and half .

Physical and mental are not the same at all. Only a Djokovic fan would say something like that.


Lendl is proof of this. Federer is proof of this.

 

[Winner Sinner]

And Sinner pays for none of his embarrassing defeats before turning 22 (when he had a 25% win rate against the Top 10) because of recency bias, as expected. But as I said, this will just age badly - no point in arguing.

As for your last point, you are not watching Alcaraz matches or not understanding Spanish. Ferrero has been either mute or just cheerleading for at least a year now. He has had 0 input during matches for either wins or losses.

Vagnozzi and Cahill contribute far more tactically during a match and have turned around more matches in the past year than Ferrero’s “Vamosing”

Since when is losing to opponents who are superior in that phase a sign of weakness?

As for your point that Sinner during the various matches receives more advice from his coaches than Alcaraz with Ferrero, the important thing is to believe it.

PS
The only thing that will age badly are your comments in this thread, of those who try to convince themselves that Alcaraz is mentally a more solid player than Sinner.

 

[Winner Sinner]

my dude take a chill pill lol you’d think the man spat on your mother with how heated you’re getting. It’s not that serious

Actually, he's the one who started provoking in this thread.
I was just wondering why he didn't comment on those data, and the answer is obviously bad faith in judgment, since he knows very well that those data certify the different mental solidity in the important points in their direct clashes.

So it doesn't make much sense to act as a defense attorney for lost causes, as you are doing.

 

[SpinToWin]

Actually, he's the one who started provoking in this thread.
I was just wondering why he didn't comment on those data, and the answer is obviously bad faith in judgment, since he knows very well that those data certify the different mental solidity in the important points in their direct clashes.

So it doesn't make much sense to act as a defense attorney for lost causes, as you are doing.

What defense attorney? You’re so heated that you haven’t even realised I chose Sinner in this thread lol. I’m just telling you to relax. People can also agree to disagree at some point, you can’t force somebody to agree with your POV. And heck, if you don’t get along with him at all, you can always ignore him. There’s ways to deal with disagreements like an adult but this ain’t it

 

[Winner Sinner]

What defense attorney? You’re so heated that you haven’t even realised I chose Sinner in this thread lol. I’m just telling you to relax. People can also agree to disagree at some point, you can’t force somebody to agree with your POV. And heck, if you don’t get along with him at all, you can always ignore him. There’s ways to deal with disagreements like an adult but this ain’t it

But did you understand or not that he started to provoke?
Spare me these moralistic comments of yours that are even more insistent, especially when they only take into consideration what is convenient for them.

 

[vwanderaa]

Since when is losing to opponents who are superior in that phase a sign of weakness?

As for your point that Sinner during the various matches receives more advice from his coaches than Alcaraz with Ferrero, the important thing is to believe it.

PS
The only thing that will age badly are your comments in this thread, of those who try to convince themselves that Alcaraz is mentally a more solid player than Sinner.

What believing is needed when the coaches have mics lol.

Ferrero literally just sits there and vamoses. And even if he says something (ie “slow down”, “be patient” - things all the coaches say) Alcaraz does exactly the reverse every time. You aren’t watching.

As for Sinner having 25% win rate against the top 10 before turning 22 - he had a better win rate when he was younger (but always much lower than Alcaraz). It was mental.

You’re basing your entire estimate of “mental strength” on one year of good performance where Sinner was better on saving bps and tiebreaks but much worse in deciding sets (at ATP level btw, so 3 setters). Congratulations on having one year of doing slightly better in those metrics than a guy 2 years younger while majorly underperforming compared to the same guy in multiple past seasons. The brain doesn’t mature faster just because you’re good at tennis young btw.

I wonder how you’re getting paid because any time I come here it’s like half the posts are yours and you’re defending Sinner like he’s your little brother and personally getting insulted people don’t have all day to argue with your bias.

 

[nolefam_2024]

What believing is needed when the coaches have mics lol.

Ferrero literally just sits there and vamoses. And even if he says something (ie “slow down”, “be patient” - things all the coaches say) Alcaraz does exactly the reverse every time. You aren’t watching.

As for Sinner having 25% win rate against the top 10 before turning 22 - he had a better win rate when he was younger (but always much lower than Alcaraz). It was mental.

You’re basing your entire estimate of “mental strength” on one year of good performance where Sinner was better on saving bps and tiebreaks but much worse in deciding sets (at ATP level btw, so 3 setters). Congratulations on having one year of doing slightly better in those metrics than a guy 2 years younger while majorly underperforming compared to the same guy in multiple past seasons. The brain doesn’t mature faster just because you’re good at tennis young btw.

I wonder how you’re getting paid because any time I come here it’s like half the posts are yours and you’re defending Sinner like he’s your little brother and personally getting insulted people don’t have all day to argue with your bias.

I think we are conversing with a very angry chatbot.

 

[Winner Sinner]

What believing is needed when the coaches have mics lol.

Ferrero literally just sits there and vamoses. And even if he says something (ie “slow down”, “be patient” - things all the coaches say) Alcaraz does exactly the reverse every time. You aren’t watching.

As for Sinner having 25% win rate against the top 10 before turning 22 - he had a better win rate when he was younger (but always much lower than Alcaraz). It was mental.

You’re basing your entire estimate of “mental strength” on one year of good performance where Sinner was better on saving bps and tiebreaks but much worse in deciding sets (at ATP level btw, so 3 setters). Congratulations on having one year of doing slightly better in those metrics than a guy 2 years younger while majorly underperforming compared to the same guy in multiple past seasons. The brain doesn’t mature faster just because you’re good at tennis young btw.

I wonder how you’re getting paid because any time I come here it’s like half the posts are yours and you’re defending Sinner like he’s your little brother and personally getting insulted people don’t have all day to argue with your bias.

As usual, you start a controversy by going off the mark because you are aware that you have only said stupid things.

It is well known that Ferrero with his repeated gestures guides Alcaraz and now you come to tell us that it is not true, lol.

As for the percentage of 25% of victories against the top 10, I repeat, the vast majority of those defeats occurred against players who at that stage were superior to him, and the ranking certifies it, players like Djokovic, Nadal, Medvedev, Zverev and Tsitsipas, with whom the overall record was 2-21 at a certain point.
So it absolutely does not demonstrate mental weakness.
Compared to Alcaraz, Sinner matured later physically, that is why Alcaraz obtained more significant results before him.

And in any case I am sorry but everything counts, 2024 must be taken into consideration and is not optional.
Sinner in under pressure situations in his career and not limited to 2024 only, is slightly superior to Alcaraz.
However, this comparison becomes embarrassing in head-to-head matches, just think of the ratio of total break points with those converted, 39/81 against 32/115, which clearly shows who is the player between the two who has the best tendency to capitalize on important points in direct clashes.
Those data show that over the course of 10 matches Alcaraz's superiority emerges, given that 34 more break points won are a rather indicative figure, but Sinner compensates with greater mental solidity in managing the most important points.

Ok, when you want another lesson give me a call.

 

[Winner Sinner]

I think we are conversing with a very angry chatbot.

39/81
32/115

 

[Third Serve]

Alcaraz has way more tight match wins where he needs to be clutch. He has an absurd 5th set record in slams.

So I want to lean towards him, but it also feels a little unfair to penalize Sinner for winning his tournaments easier without much drama.

It’s not really penalizing him. We just don’t have a big sample size.

 

[vwanderaa]

As usual, you start a controversy by going off the mark because you are aware that you have only said stupid things.

It is well known that Ferrero with his repeated gestures guides Alcaraz and now you come to tell us that it is not true, lol.

As for the percentage of 25% of victories against the top 10, I repeat, the vast majority of those defeats occurred against players who at that stage were superior to him, and the ranking certifies it, players like Djokovic, Nadal, Medvedev, Zverev and Tsitsipas, with whom the overall record was 2-21 at a certain point.
So it absolutely does not demonstrate mental weakness.
Compared to Alcaraz, Sinner matured later physically, that is why Alcaraz obtained more significant results before him.

And in any case I am sorry but everything counts, 2024 must be taken into consideration and is not optional.
Sinner in under pressure situations in his career and not limited to 2024 only, is slightly superior to Alcaraz.
However, this comparison becomes embarrassing in head-to-head matches, just think of the ratio of total break points with those converted, 39/81 against 32/115, which clearly shows who is the player between the two who has the best tendency to capitalize on important points in direct clashes.
Those data show that over the course of 10 matches Alcaraz's superiority emerges, given that 34 more break points won are a rather indicative figure, but Sinner compensates with greater mental solidity in managing the most important points.

Ok, when you want another lesson give me a call.

Lesson lmao

Alcaraz is the better returner. He generates FAR more break points than Sinner does. He also wins more return games if you look at the stats BUT he plays riskier tennis so yes, he will sometimes generate 3-4 bps to win a return game. That has nothing to do with mental, chatbot, and everything to do with play style.

Lots of things are “known” by casuals that are actually urban legends. Are we going to pretend the entire tennis pundit community wasn’t confused by Ferrero just sitting there and saying nothing during the USO and AO fiascos while the rest of the coaches did on-court coaching? Idk if Alcaraz has seen the discourse and has told Ferrero to shut it but that man has been silent during all four past slams. I don’t know why you had to divert the discussion to this but how about you go back to RG/Wimbledon/USO/AO and find how exactly Ferrero has been useful like the other coaches are.

Sinner was still a top player in 2022. He shouldn’t have been winning 25% of his matches against the Top 10 while 18-19 yo Alcaraz was winning most of them even before winning UsO/n1.

Alcaraz has been less clutch in the last year than he was at 18-19-20 but he’s in general always been more clutch and bigger match player than Sinner. Let’s talk when they’re both more mature.

 

[Winner Sinner]

Lesson lmao

Alcaraz is the better returner. He generates FAR more break points than Sinner does. He also wins more return games if you look at the stats BUT he plays riskier tennis so yes, he will sometimes generate 3-4 bps to win a return game. That has nothing to do with mental, chatbot, and everything to do with play style.

Lots of things are “known” by casuals that are actually urban legends. Are we going to pretend the entire tennis pundit community wasn’t confused by Ferrero just sitting there and saying nothing during the USO and AO fiascos while the rest of the coaches did on-court coaching? Idk if Alcaraz has seen the discourse and has told Ferrero to shut it but that man has been silent during all four past slams. I don’t know why you had to divert the discussion to this but how about you go back to RG/Wimbledon/USO/AO and find how exactly Ferrero has been useful like the other coaches are.

Sinner was still a top player in 2022. He shouldn’t have been winning 25% of his matches against the Top 10 while 18-19 yo Alcaraz was winning most of them even before winning UsO/n1.

Alcaraz has been less clutch in the last year than he was at 18-19-20 but he’s in general always been more clutch and bigger match player than Sinner. Let’s talk when they’re both more mature.

It's hard to argue against a wall.

Alcaraz in 2022 began to consistently beat the top 10 in a season that saw him finish at number 1, ergo, his level was already that of a top player, the same season where Sinner finished at number 15.
You're simply comparing apples with oranges.

I repeat, the fact that Alcaraz matured first physically does not mean that he was more solid mentally.

Then this thing of let's talk about it when both have matured, I see that it is a question that is recycled over time, despite a fairly unequivocal current trend, in which Sinner first reached Alcaraz, put his arrow and overtook him without looking back.
What we saw in 2024 was already repeating itself at the beginning of 2025 before Sinner was disqualified.
By endlessly repeating that this thread will age badly, that Alcaraz is two years younger, the hope that the current trend will stop will die with these illusions of yours.
It's not my fault that Sinner in the last year and a half has had a sensational escalation that does not seem to be able to stop, while on the contrary Alcaraz, net of the double triumph Roland Garros-Wimbledon, has shown signs of regression.
Acknowledge it and stop, without dwelling on it too much.

 

[nolefam_2024]

@Aabye5

Ultimate Tennis Statistics - Carlos Alcaraz Garfia

Carlos Alcaraz Garfia profile at Ultimate Tennis Statistics

www.ultimatetennisstatistics.com

Ultimate Tennis Statistics - Novak Djokovic

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Ultimate Tennis Statistics - Roger Federer

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Ultimate Tennis Statistics - Rafael Nadal

Rafael Nadal profile at Ultimate Tennis Statistics

www.ultimatetennisstatistics.com

Ultimate Tennis Statistics - Jannik Sinner

Jannik Sinner profile at Ultimate Tennis Statistics

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[vwanderaa]

It's hard to argue against a wall.

Alcaraz in 2022 began to consistently beat the top 10 in a season that saw him finish at number 1, ergo, his level was already that of a top player, the same season where Sinner finished at number 15.
You're simply comparing apples with oranges.

I repeat, the fact that Alcaraz matured first physically does not mean that he was more solid mentally.

Then this thing of let's talk about it when both have matured, I see that it is a question that is recycled over time, despite a fairly unequivocal current trend, in which Sinner first reached Alcaraz, put his arrow and overtook him without looking back.
What we saw in 2024 was already repeating itself at the beginning of 2025 before Sinner was disqualified.
By endlessly repeating that this thread will age badly, that Alcaraz is two years younger, the hope that the current trend will stop will die with these illusions of yours.
It's not my fault that Sinner in the last year and a half has had a sensational escalation that does not seem to be able to stop, while on the contrary Alcaraz, net of the double triumph Roland Garros-Wimbledon, has shown signs of regression.
Acknowledge it and stop, without dwelling on it too much.

It’s hard to argue against a wall is correct. And ironic, but im sure you’re missing it like so much else.

Yes, genius, “physical development” is why Alcaraz has been beating ATP top 300 grown men since he was 14 and looking like a scrawny cat and playing a full court style while everyone else was stuck to the baseline. That’s why he beat Nadal, Djokovic and Zverev back to back to back at 19, and fought back to beat Sinner from match point down in the US Open when Sinner was the same age Alcaraz is now. The things he’s been doing for years consistently are uncoachable but WinnerSinner-bot says it’s just because of “physical development”.

Was “physical development” why Sinner lost all matches against Alcaraz last year when he “should” have been the better player? (According to your logic that discounts years of Sinner selling under pressure against the top 10)

I’m done conversing with you. Sinner is impressive but dear god his fandom (or paid bots, I’m not sure what you are) is the most annoying thing to happen to tennis in decades.

 

[Winner Sinner]

It’s hard to argue against a wall is correct. And ironic, but im sure you’re missing it like so much else.

Yes, genius, “physical development” is why Alcaraz has been beating ATP top 300 grown men since he was 14 and looking like a scrawny cat and playing a full court style while everyone else was stuck to the baseline. That’s why he beat Nadal, Djokovic and Zverev back to back to back at 19, and fought back to beat Sinner from match point down in the US Open when Sinner was the same age Alcaraz is now. The things he’s been doing for years consistently are uncoachable but WinnerSinner-bot says it’s just because of “physical development”.

Was “physical development” why Sinner lost all matches against Alcaraz last year when he “should” have been the better player? (According to your logic that discounts years of Sinner selling under pressure against the top 10)

I’m done conversing with you. Sinner is impressive but dear god his fandom (or paid bots, I’m not sure what you are) is the most annoying thing to happen to tennis in decades.

Alcaraz will turn 22 in less than two months, Sinner had just turned 21 when he lost that match at the US Open.

So here too you try to divert attention by continuing to propose inaccuracies.

Anyway I could very well turn the tables on you, if you consider Sinner incapable of beating the top 10 as a sign of mental weakness, tell me how you explain that in that phase of Sinner's career Alcaraz himself was down 4-3 in h2h against a player who you consider mentally weak at that stage.

You are simply derailing.
Even in last year's h2h, as usual you ignore that the two faced each other in moments of maximum inspiration for Alcaraz (Indian Wells and Beijing) and in two favorable contexts due to the surface (Indian Wells and Roland Garros).
It is not Sinner's fault if in the contexts most favorable to the Italian, as well as in the moments of his greatest inspiration, such as the Australian Open (and also 2025), the US Open, Miami and Turin, the Murcian was repeatedly eliminated even sometimes against players much worse than him.
H2H 2024 absolutely misled by all this.

The fact remains that Sinner has reversed the trend in a sensational way.
Sinner has already reached and surpassed Alcaraz's number of weeks at number 1, he has surpassed him in terms of number of tournaments won, he has reached -1 in terms of number of slams (after being at -3) and big titles (after being at -6)
Little by little he will surpass him in every type of parameter, exactly as Djokovic did with the other two members of the big three, and you will still be here talking about threads that have aged badly, about the age difference, living in the past while omitting the present.
It is not Sinner's fans who are the worst species as you imply, but those like you who simply cannot accept the current reality.
It is up to Sinner's fans to open your eyes.

After Wimbledon 2023 you thought you had the red carpet rolled out before your feet, and instead this sensational escalation of Sinner has ruined your plans.
Here too, it is not my fault, but of those who cannot accept the succession of events.
The current trend is unmistakable except for those who turn their heads the other way trying to rebel against fate (in your case mocking).

 

[Aabye5]

@Aabye5

Ultimate Tennis Statistics - Carlos Alcaraz Garfia

Carlos Alcaraz Garfia profile at Ultimate Tennis Statistics

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Ultimate Tennis Statistics - Novak Djokovic

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Ultimate Tennis Statistics - Roger Federer

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Ultimate Tennis Statistics - Rafael Nadal

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Ultimate Tennis Statistics - Jannik Sinner

Jannik Sinner profile at Ultimate Tennis Statistics

www.ultimatetennisstatistics.com

What's the meaning?

 

[nolefam_2024]

What's the meaning?

What do you mean ? Open it.

 

[NYTennisfan]

Who has Sinner beaten in slams that has tested him mentally?

He beat a declined Medvedev, Draper and Fritz to win the US Open. Not exactly a murderers row of great players that will test you mentally
Then he beat De Minaur, Shelton and Zverev to win the Aussie Open. Zverev can beat anybody when he's on his A game but he's never showed well in big matches.

Again, Sinner is a great player but he's had a very generous path in his last two slam wins. Alcaraz has had to beat Sinner twice and Djokovic twice in his slam wins and his finals record overall is absurd. He's hit a bit of a rough patch starting with that inexplicable Gold Medal loss to Djokovic but he's been tested a lot more in his career than Sinner has and has mostly passed those tests.

 

[Winner Sinner]

Who has Sinner beaten in slams that has tested him mentally?

He beat a declined Medvedev, Draper and Fritz to win the US Open. Not exactly a murderers row of great players that will test you mentally
Then he beat De Minaur, Shelton and Zverev to win the Aussie Open. Zverev can beat anybody when he's on his A game but he's never showed well in big matches.

Again, Sinner is a great player but he's had a very generous path in his last two slam wins. Alcaraz has had to beat Sinner twice and Djokovic twice in his slam wins and his finals record overall is absurd. He's hit a bit of a rough patch starting with that inexplicable Gold Medal loss to Djokovic but he's been tested a lot more in his career than Sinner has and has mostly passed those tests.

If you take into account the Djokovic that Alcaraz beat in the 2024 Wimbledon final, I wonder why you don't do the same with the Djokovic that Sinner beat in the AO 24 semifinals when his aura was still alive.

But above all, take into account the Sinner that Alcaraz beat at the 2022 US Open, a player who had not yet won a major title, never reached a slam semifinal, and never entered the top 5.

Do you think it is more relevant to beat the Sinner of the 2022 US Open than the Zverev of the last Australian Open or the Medvedev of the 2024 US Open?

And in any case, Sinner's record in finals (19-5) is currently superior to that of Alcaraz (17-5).