MEP is back !!!!!

You can be a pusher at any level with 10/10 technique. The difference is that your quality ball will be higher while still playing 99% percentage. It's still about waiting for the opponent's error.

Gotta say, good striking level pushers, are a pleasure to train against.

BTW, I do not say pusher in a despective way. But I do not share that tennis mindset.
Semantics though, pusher for me becomes counterpuncher very quickly as level reaches 4.5ish , I've had my giggles reading posters on these threads say Andy Murry is a pusher lol. If you use the word pusher for all levels the word loses it's utility for clear tennis discussions.

I don't want to see any showdowns hehe.
 
life is a b**** we can't get everything we want.

get a bet together I will do it.

meanwhile - hitting with someone like Jolly wouldn't be a waste of time and I will be glad to have it filmed and posted.

meanwhile - anyone coming to/in the Philly/Princeton area if you need hits reach out... we have a group of 4.0 guys here all can hit well.
where in the Philly area?
 
life is a b**** we can't get everything we want.

get a bet together I will do it.
You do have to understand that first accepting the challenge then deploying the "I make so much money a day, I can't afford time" excuse after having declared that you are semi-retired looks more like "I am a *****" than it does "life is a *****."
meanwhile - hitting with someone like Jolly wouldn't be a waste of time and I will be glad to have it filmed and posted.
Surely you can reach out to him and attempt to organize something.
why did nobody ask how to make $6k a day.. not offering career advice here.. but there are far more important things than winning in the 4.0 tour with dinks lol.
Well some would consider that impolite to ask. Also often when presented with individuals in your situation people find the responses to such questions limited in disclosure and/or otherwise not particularly useful so maybe there is reluctance from this.
 
it's silly people want to see show downs with a 4.0 lol.... go to your local park you can see them show downs all day!

why did nobody ask how to make $6k a day.. not offering career advice here.. but there are far more important things than winning in the 4.0 tour with dinks lol.
The local ones are not quite as good as they aren't usually preceded by a load of trashing. Please humour us by playing it.
 
Better_Call_Raul said:
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MEP is at 4.5 and winning 60% of his matches.

@FuzzyYellowBalls already fact checked that.

but that's not important. as I said, dinkers have self imposed limitations. and their current ceiling will just get lower the more they play in the 4.0/4.5 tour.. once dinkers get 'figured out' they have nothing to turn the table with.
So with your higher ceiling, have you already passed the 4.5 level champ?
 
it's silly people want to see show downs with a 4.0 lol.... go to your local park you can see them show downs all day!

why did nobody ask how to make $6k a day.. not offering career advice here.. but there are far more important things than winning in the 4.0 tour with dinks lol.
4.5
 
Semantics though, pusher for me becomes counterpuncher very quickly as level reaches 4.5ish , I've had my giggles reading posters on these threads say Andy Murry is a pusher lol. If you use the word pusher for all levels the word loses it's utility for clear tennis discussions.

I don't want to see any showdowns hehe.
It would be reasonable to say Sir Andrew pulls out the FH slice far more frequently than the average ATP pro, you think?
 
Trying my best to restrain myself from the throwing my hat into the ring in this flame war...
Please don't. This thread is a joyous celebration of late summer energy; the more participants the merrier.
Not at all. But my question is still legit.
You said NY/NJ so people just assumed finance and got bored. But I am curious, so please, tell.
Sure, so did Fed, but none are pushers.
I would say doing that + defensive mondset (i.e. not really Fed) would be how the archetype manifests at that level. Agree it's not yhe same as the true rec pusher in the sense that he is eminently capable of hitting all the powerful strokes.
 
You can be a pusher at any level with 10/10 technique. The difference is that your quality ball will be higher while still playing 99% percentage. It's still about waiting for the opponent's error.

Gotta say, good striking level pushers, are a pleasure to train against.

BTW, I do not say pusher in a despective way. But I do not share that tennis mindset.

You're conflating two different things. A dinker / pusher with undeveloped stroke mechanics is not the same as a 10/10 counter puncher.

I recognise there are more defensive playstyles at higher levels but not at the expense of correct mechanics. Which is why the 4.0 ceiling exists for the former.
 
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You're conflating two different things. A dinker / pusher with undeveloped stroke mechanics is not the same as a 10/10 counter puncher.

I recognise there are more defensive playstyles at higher levels but not at the expense of correct mechanics. Which is why the 4.0 ceiling exists for the former.
How about the forehands of Mannarino or Santoro? Niculescu? Or Kyrgios, who often hits a 2HBH with a tiny swing and no pace or spin. Aren't they playing in a different way at the expense of 'correct' mechanics?
 
How about the forehands of Mannarino or Santoro? Niculescu? Or Kyrgios, who often hits a 2HBH with a tiny swing and no pace or spin. Aren't they playing in a different way at the expense of 'correct' mechanics?

apples oranges.

again. pros HAVE all the tools and vary by choice/needs.

dinkers dink because they have only 2 shots, a dink fh and a dink bh... well maybe a 3rd - a dink serve lol.... well I guess they also DONT VARY by choice/needs lol.... there is no other choice, and so they need to dink ha.

look.. if you can dink your way to 4.5, there must be some thing that's working, legs, savviness... why not use this and reach your true potential. you have to get worse before getting better.. maybe develop a net game, so at least there is SOMETHING that the opp is concerned about.

Ian needs eyeballs so he created this term MEP... but these players are dime a dozen everywhere, should be Just Another Exhausting Player.. JAEP lol.
 
apples oranges.

again. pros HAVE all the tools and vary by choice/needs.

dinkers dink because they have only 2 shots, a dink fh and a dink bh... well maybe a 3rd - a dink serve lol.... well I guess they also DONT VARY by choice/needs lol.... there is no other choice, and so they need to dink ha.

look.. if you can dink your way to 4.5, there must be some thing that's working, legs, savviness... why not use this and reach your true potential. you have to get worse before getting better.. maybe develop a net game, so at least there is SOMETHING that the opp is concerned about.

Ian needs eyeballs so he created this term MEP... but these players are dime a dozen everywhere, should be Just Another Exhausting Player.. JAEP lol.
Do you think you could beat MEP? If you are a USTA 4.0 rated player, my opinion is you have about a 1 in 5 chance of beating him and that may be generous. MEP style players can win at any level. They depend on movement, placement, consistency and mental toughness to fry your shot tolerance and they can succeed. We played A1 in ALTA (local league in Atlanta) which is easily equivalent to 4.5 USTA. Our number 1 singles player was mid-30s, had played #1 for D1 college and undefeated in regular season and early playoffs. In the city final, his opponent was a 140 lbs skinny dude that hit dead flat pancakes on serve and groundstrokes. But, the guy ran like a deer and never missed. The skinny dude beat our guy in straights. I have lost to similar opponents and it isn't easy beating them.
 
. But, the guy ran like a deer and never missed.
That is what it comes down to. Seen many like this who started off fine with tricky slices, dinks and running everywhere, then started showing up wearing all kinds of useless braces, and then stopped playing altogether.

A recreational player needs to think long-term, because tennis is not his livelihood, and only he will end up bearing the cost of surgeries, not the opponents he might have defeated over the years.
 
Do you think you could beat MEP? If you are a USTA 4.0 rated player, my opinion is you have about a 1 in 5 chance of beating him and that may be generous. MEP style players can win at any level. They depend on movement, placement, consistency and mental toughness to fry your shot tolerance and they can succeed. We played A1 in ALTA (local league in Atlanta) which is easily equivalent to 4.5 USTA. Our number 1 singles player was mid-30s, had played #1 for D1 college and undefeated in regular season and early playoffs. In the city final, his opponent was a 140 lbs skinny dude that hit dead flat pancakes on serve and groundstrokes. But, the guy ran like a deer and never missed. The skinny dude beat our guy in straights. I have lost to similar opponents and it isn't easy beating them.

I am offering a $100k bet... why no takers if my chance is 1 in 5 lol.

and why are people so obsessed about this lol... this is why I talked about money... once you have entered a higher dimension, winning in the 4.0 tour is something so low on the priority list it's pathetic lol..
 
Do you think you could beat MEP? If you are a USTA 4.0 rated player, my opinion is you have about a 1 in 5 chance of beating him and that may be generous. MEP style players can win at any level. They depend on movement, placement, consistency and mental toughness to fry your shot tolerance and they can succeed. We played A1 in ALTA (local league in Atlanta) which is easily equivalent to 4.5 USTA. Our number 1 singles player was mid-30s, had played #1 for D1 college and undefeated in regular season and early playoffs. In the city final, his opponent was a 140 lbs skinny dude that hit dead flat pancakes on serve and groundstrokes. But, the guy ran like a deer and never missed. The skinny dude beat our guy in straights. I have lost to similar opponents and it isn't easy beating them.

I am offering a $100k bet... why no takers if my chance is 1 in 5 lol.

and why are people so obsessed about this lol... this is why I talked about money... once you have entered a higher dimension, winning in the 4.0 tour is something so low on the priority list it's pathetic lol..
That is what it comes down to. Seen many like this who started off fine with tricky slices, dinks and running everywhere, then started showing up wearing all kinds of useless braces, and then stopped playing altogether.

A recreational player needs to think long-term, because tennis is not his livelihood, and only he will end up bearing the cost of surgeries, not the opponents he might have defeated over the years.

this is a good point. actually some of the dinkers I went thru are wearing braces today lol...

look - you can dink your way thru another 4.0 season lol. but what does that accomplish. learn how to play properly, better techniques, combined with the legs and the savviness will move you much closer to the ceiling.
 
Our number 1 singles player was mid-30s, had played #1 for D1 college and undefeated in regular season and early playoffs. In the city final, his opponent was a 140 lbs skinny dude that hit dead flat pancakes on serve and groundstrokes.
Something there doesn't quite add up, not really important but either the pancake was better than the words you use to describe him or D1 has something going on. I say this because most 4.5 teams I've been around or on for the past 20 years didn't have 1 D1 player, usually D 2 or 3 and they would all destroy a pusher, for example my buddies who are 4.5 18+ current natty champs from Memphis had no D1 guys, there's no way any of them would lose to a pusher or anything pancake at all, even the doubles specialists.

@10sbeast888 is correct in his assumption , I agree with him, there is a ceiling. Why people would rather have hin play MEP than discuss that fact, is strange because what does it matter who wins that match as far as discussing the topic? Do you all stop in the middle of a discussion and just say, well, well, I bet you can't beat him up?

There are some great pushers at 3.5 sectionals and nationals, and borderline in the 55 competitions at higher levels.

Hardly any pushers of consequence at 4.0 sectionals and nationals. If there are, they are getting run over.

Absolutely none in 4.5 sectionals /nationals. And so on 5.0 and 5.0 +
 
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I am offering a $100k bet... why no takers if my chance is 1 in 5 lol.

and why are people so obsessed about this lol... this is why I talked about money... once you have entered a higher dimension, winning in the 4.0 tour is something so low on the priority list it's pathetic lol.
Are you going to answer the question:
You said NY/NJ so people just assumed finance and got bored. But I am curious, so please, tell.
 
I am offering a $100k bet... why no takers if my chance is 1 in 5 lol.

and why are people so obsessed about this lol... this is why I talked about money... once you have entered a higher dimension, winning in the 4.0 tour is something so low on the priority list it's pathetic lol..


this is a good point. actually some of the dinkers I went thru are wearing braces today lol...

look - you can dink your way thru another 4.0 season lol. but what does that accomplish. learn how to play properly, better techniques, combined with the legs and the savviness will move you much closer to the ceiling.
Discussing who and who doesn't hit their forehand 'properly' or with the 'correct mechanics' is a whole lot less interesting than seeing them pitted against each other in match.
 
Discussing who and who doesn't hit their forehand 'properly' or with the 'correct mechanics' is a whole lot less interesting than seeing them pitted against each other in match.

go on fanduel, or your local casina, put a few bucks on some tennis matches.
 
Why people would rather have hin play MEP than discuss that fact, is strange because what does it matter who wins that match as far as discussing the topic?
Really what is there to discuss? It is obvious fact. This is why I have spent ample time training conventional strokes to complement my junkballing game. I think there is reluctance from others because people who loudly look down on "pushers" tend to lack appreciation for elements of the game beyond hitting powerful groundstrokes.
 
A 100k bet for a rec match lmao.

Talking about *someone* being a coward
Yeah...obviously 99% of folks on this board aren't even in a position to be able to accept those terms so it's not made in good faith. Additionally, if he is making as much money as he claims, he can afford to fk around for a few days so the not having time excuse is weird.

I also asked where in the Philly area and have gone unanswered. If this guy is actually half decent then I'm guessing one of us in the area knows someone who has actually played with him (if he exists).
 
somewhat related... but I won't go into details.. the point is people are so obsessed by if a random amateur on the internet is gonna beat another random amateur lmao.... point is where is the priority.
It's not a random guy, it's someone with an interesting playstyle.

It's an interesting question for a player that wants to improve: How much should you try changing your technique Vs work with what you've got. When would be the easiest time to beat MEP? Just after a coach convinces him that he must look like RF when he hits his forehand because that's proper tennis.
 
How about the forehands of Mannarino or Santoro? Niculescu? Or Kyrgios, who often hits a 2HBH with a tiny swing and no pace or spin. Aren't they playing in a different way at the expense of 'correct' mechanics?
Again I think they are largely irrelevant. What do they or any other high level tennis player have to do with the tennis we are discussing here?
 
I'd love to play MEP. I offer a game anytime, no strings or caveats.

So MEP if you ever come to the UK, we'll set it up. (4.5)
 
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It's not a random guy, it's someone with an interesting playstyle.

It's an interesting question for a player that wants to improve: How much should you try changing your technique Vs work with what you've got. When would be the easiest time to beat MEP? Just after a coach convinces him that he must look like RF when he hits his forehand because that's proper tennis.

the answer is probably - it depends.. but clearly the current ceiling is very low. it's called a local maximum... typically a player has to come off the local maximum to reach the true maximum.. and that is true for any kind of technique changes.

when I help 3.5s to get to the 4.0 I ask them - don't play matches, or dont try to win.. preferably the former... because losing feels terrible, and people will resort to the old garbage technique and cancel all the progress they made in the past weeks.

particularly for this MEP, I'd say the lowest hanging fruit is a more aggressive net game... at least put SOME pressure on the opp... just dinking back to the middle is just a terrible way to play.... due to the lack of dip you cant open angles, and due to lack of ball speed you always have to scramble more than the other guy.... dinks are ok for approaches.... and volleys are much easier to learn than ground strokes.... then I'd make the serve better, to compound on an improved net game.... then learn the topspin ground as the last pieces.

the match records don't need to suffer that much, if you go with this sequence.
 
I am offering a $100k bet... why no takers if my chance is 1 in 5 lol.

and why are people so obsessed about this lol... this is why I talked about money... once you have entered a higher dimension, winning in the 4.0 tour is something so low on the priority list it's pathetic lol..
Let’s make this interesting.
I will travel to play you for $1000, winner gets the purse.

I am 0-3 H2H against MEP.
I’m old (in my 50s).
I also dink a lot.
And I’m also 4.0 rated by @FuzzyYellowBalls

Rules:
Must be indoors.
Bo3 (10-point super if split).
I’m not allowed to hit topspin except for serves.
 
Let’s make this interesting.
I will travel to play you for $1000, winner gets the purse.

I am 0-3 H2H against MEP.
I’m old (in my 50s).
I also dink a lot.
And I’m also 4.0 rated by @FuzzyYellowBalls

Rules:
Must be indoors.
Bo3 (10-point super if split).
I’m not allowed to hit topspin except for serves.

lol.... nah... no point for you to lose a grand just because some random yahoo's on the internet are intrigued by a possible showdown between me and MEP...

but like I said... anyone 4.0+ travel to this area is good to look me up and we have a bunch of 4.0s who can hit well.

what's the rush, you will all see me play at some point.
 
lol.... nah... no point for you to lose a grand just because some random yahoo's on the internet are intrigued by a possible showdown between me and MEP...

but like I said... anyone 4.0+ travel to this area is good to look me up and we have a bunch of 4.0s who can hit well.

what's the rush, you will all see me play at some point.
The thou was just so I could recoup my travel expenses.
 
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