MEP vs ET Players - Original TT Epic

Who wins?

  • Ian to dish out bagel and a stick

    Votes: 9 9.1%
  • Ian Wins

    Votes: 43 43.4%
  • Ian just manages to win

    Votes: 22 22.2%
  • Green shirt teaches Ian a lesson

    Votes: 6 6.1%
  • Green shirt wins

    Votes: 13 13.1%
  • Green shirt shocks the tennis world

    Votes: 6 6.1%

  • Total voters
    99
  • Poll closed .

GSG

Rookie
I want to redirect the discussion to another topic (based on the HOWTO beat pusher list). What improvement can GSG make to get a boost in his match win ratios. What is GSGs worst weakness if someone is following the regular how to beat pusher stuff.

I think it is his net game. If he is pulled too close to net, he is extremely vulnerable. Developing a solid net game does not require too much change in his regular shots or play style. But having good volley and overhead skills will make the pusher in GSG even more frustrating and tough to beat.

I think @GSG should practice volleys and overheads and develop a solid net game, and make the opponent take that off the list on "how to beat pusher".
I think you are really on to something here. I know that my net game is a weakness of my playing and I'm trying to focus on improving that this year. I need to develop a greater willingness to come to the net to try to take away time and end points sooner, as well as having a higher risk tolerance for getting passed at the net. If I were to self assess the area in which I could make improvements to become a better player, the breakdown would be:

50%- better net game and volleys
20%- better serve
12%- better overheads (this is actually the single weakest area of my game, but since overheads tend to be less common than net opportunities, I have it listed lower)
10%- better equipment- I've been using the same model racquet for a decade, and I'm a much different player than I was in 2011. I've never really dug into string patterns and exploring different racquets to determine what would be optimum for me, but if I did, my intuition tells me that optimizing one or both of those elements could improve my performance by 5-10%.
7%- being more willing to play matches to get better vs strictly playing to win
1%- hitting with topspin ;)
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
Can't stand this Intuitive guy. He's full of ****.
"The optimal way to put away a short ball is to take it higher?"
Yeah duh, but he was just talking about low slices. How do you take a slice around knee level higher??
Then he goes on to show the player how to just hit an vertical swing path that pretty much leaves a sitter to the opponent...
He shows how to do it with a hop step
 

FIRETennis

Professional
Are you sure that's what he said? I heard him say "the optimal way to putaway a short ball is when it's higher, ... you can absolutely destroy with a downward trajectory. If the ball is lower than the net, you cannot hit a winner, we have to go for placement and go inside to put it away with the next shot".
His exact words: "the optimal thing you can do when it comes to killing short balls is taking them higher so at least the waist level or above".
Chest/shoulder height short balls at the 4.5 level? Wishful thinking... how many of those are there in the GSG matches?

no it doesn’t.
Since this is a "4.5 NTRP Lesson" a 4.5 opponent will easily pass the way this Intuitive guy demonstrates those short low ball approach shots.
Much better options he could describe: drop shot, short angle, slice approach rather than a dinky topspin attempt to put the ball back.
 

Power Player

Talk Tennis Guru
His exact words: "the optimal thing you can do when it comes to killing short balls is taking them higher so at least the waist level or above".
Chest/shoulder height short balls at the 4.5 level? Wishful thinking... how many of those are there in the GSG matches?



Since this is a "4.5 NTRP Lesson" a 4.5 opponent will easily pass the way this Intuitive guy demonstrates those short low ball approach shots.
Much better options he could describe: drop shot, short angle, slice approach rather than a dinky topspin attempt to put the ball back.
Nope. High level training teaches to attack with topspin. Been this way for a while. These aren’t dinks, they are well placed shots with heavy top that kick away from the opponent.

the drop shot/angle is last resort when you cant get there in time. Experience should tell you that many players follow their short balls to the net, so a drop shot is not that effective.
 

FIRETennis

Professional
Nope. High level training teaches to attack with topspin. Been this way for a while. These aren’t dinks, they are well placed shots with heavy top that kick away from the opponent.

the drop shot/angle is last resort when you cant get there in time. Experience should tell you that many players follow their short balls to the net, so a drop shot is not that effective.
 

Morch Us

Professional
You really know your game.

By the way don't even start anything about equipment in TT forums, you will soon find yourself with overwhelming info, buying 200 rackets and 200+ string reels.

Serve, of course can/should be improved as much as possible. But ... i am doubtful whether it is a low hanging fruit (lot of effort for gain).

I specifically mentioned netgame as a low hanging fruit, since it will also help with your confidence on short court (especially since you don't have that screaming winners from there, mostly placement winners). This puts more pressure on opponents to keep you deep, where you feel home already running along the baseline. Opponents will think twice about trying to hit angle shots, since they by definision will be short, and will be pressured to hit "better" ones, which will lead to more UE.

In other words, a solid net game will not just improve your points won at net, but also will increase UE from opponents.

the breakdown would be
 
Last edited:

travlerajm

G.O.A.T.
I think you are really on to something here. I know that my net game is a weakness of my playing and I'm trying to focus on improving that this year. I need to develop a greater willingness to come to the net to try to take away time and end points sooner, as well as having a higher risk tolerance for getting passed at the net. If I were to self assess the area in which I could make improvements to become a better player, the breakdown would be:

50%- better net game and volleys
20%- better serve
12%- better overheads (this is actually the single weakest area of my game, but since overheads tend to be less common than net opportunities, I have it listed lower)
10%- better equipment- I've been using the same model racquet for a decade, and I'm a much different player than I was in 2011. I've never really dug into string patterns and exploring different racquets to determine what would be optimum for me, but if I did, my intuition tells me that optimizing one or both of those elements could improve my performance by 5-10%.
7%- being more willing to play matches to get better vs strictly playing to win
1%- hitting with topspin ;)
In my opinion, you are underestimating the value of optimized equipment. A few small tweaks (the right ones) will get you bumped to 5.0 guaranteed.
 

Power Player

Talk Tennis Guru
I could be wrong but I think i saw gsg switch frames multiple times in a match he was losing on the TT channel. He appears to have a solid collection going if I’m correct.
 
D

Deleted member 771407

Guest
His exact words: "the optimal thing you can do when it comes to killing short balls is taking them higher so at least the waist level or above".
Chest/shoulder height short balls at the 4.5 level? Wishful thinking... how many of those are there in the GSG matches?



Since this is a "4.5 NTRP Lesson" a 4.5 opponent will easily pass the way this Intuitive guy demonstrates those short low ball approach shots.
Much better options he could describe: drop shot, short angle, slice approach rather than a dinky topspin attempt to put the ball back.
You get those balls in grand slam finals... That's when you are supposed to finish the point. He was simply trying to illustrate that low balls are not attacking balls even if they are short, unlike high balls, and should be treated differently.
 

TennisDawg

Hall of Fame
Can't stand this Intuitive guy. He's full of ****.
"The optimal way to put away a short ball is to take it higher?"
Yeah duh, but he was just talking about low slices. How do you take a slice around knee level higher??
Then he goes on to show the player how to just hit an vertical swing path that pretty much leaves a sitter to the opponent...
I think he’s one of the better free online instructors. I thought he said hit the short ball at the top of it’s trajectory. Use a hop step to hit a low slice to put topspin on it and use a windshield wiper type swing.
 
Wonderful ! Checklists are the answer to beating any opponent?
Strawman. That wasn't the claim.

Maybe the checklist will give you a two percent edge. What's a measly two pct? it means nothing if your opponent is way better or way worse. But it might be the margin of victory against a close peer.

Give me the checklist, please.

Strategies to beat MEP and Federer
  1. Be good to yourself
  2. Try your best
  3. Use your legs
  4. Be proactive
  5. Focus
The next time you play against Federer, let us know how the score line!!
If I'm ever lucky enough to play Federer, I will.

OTOH, I'm sure I'd do better against MEP using a list like above rather than no list at all.
 

Power Player

Talk Tennis Guru
Strawman. That wasn't the claim.

Maybe the checklist will give you a two percent edge. What's a measly two pct? it means nothing if your opponent is way better or way worse. But it might be the margin of victory against a close peer.

Give me the checklist, please.



If I'm ever lucky enough to play Federer, I will.

OTOH, I'm sure I'd do better against MEP using a list like above rather than no list at all.
Your game matches up really well against a guy like MEP. That could be a fun one. Get Matt to film it in 8k and we will have something.
 

zipplock

Hall of Fame
Are you sure that's what he said? I heard him say "the optimal way to putaway a short ball is when it's higher, ... you can absolutely destroy with a downward trajectory. If the ball is lower than the net, you cannot hit a winner, we have to go for placement and go inside to put it away with the next shot".
This. He addressed short balls that were low, net height and high. All three had different approaches.
 
Last edited:

GuyClinch

Legend
But nobody does that... Even the worst pusher will put the ball away if there is an opportunity. In fact it is easier to place the ball when you simply push and put no spin on your ball or pace.
This. The fantasy pusher that only hits balls into the middle of the court and never hits a winner does not really exist. It only exists in the mind of the person lost to the pusher who was not logging the stats of the match.

Until GSG I would say that the 4.5 pusher does not exist. If GSG is not a pusher then no one is pusher.. The fact that he can direct his shorts to the open court when a play breaks down doesn't lift him from pusher status.

Attacking players can take balls that are only slightly short and not hit with great pace and turn them into stone cold winners - even when the opponent is not out of position or just slightly out of position.

Counter punchers can take advantage of an opponent who makes a poor shot selection and thus is slightly out of optimal recover position - aka someone who hits DTL but without a really punishing shot. The counter puncher has the speed to easily cover the DTL shot - and then rip a cross court winner. But they do rip it. Counter punchers could play attacking tennis - they just choose not to.

I understand the argument for calling GSG a counter puncher but its not really a convincing one to me anyway. The fact that he will grab some easier winners from some awful mental mistakes doesn't make him a counter puncher. Counter punchers can well PUNCH hence the name.
 
This. The fantasy pusher that only hits balls into the middle of the court and never hits a winner does not really exist. It only exists in the mind of the person lost to the pusher who was not logging the stats of the match.

Until GSG I would say that the 4.5 pusher does not exist. If GSG is not a pusher then no one is pusher.. The fact that he can direct his shorts to the open court when a play breaks down doesn't lift him from pusher status.

Attacking players can take balls that are only slightly short and not hit with great pace and turn them into stone cold winners - even when the opponent is not out of position or just slightly out of position.

Counter punchers can take advantage of an opponent who makes a poor shot selection and thus is slightly out of optimal recover position - aka someone who hits DTL but without a really punishing shot. The counter puncher has the speed to easily cover the DTL shot - and then rip a cross court winner. But they do rip it. Counter punchers could play attacking tennis - they just choose not to.

I understand the argument for calling GSG a counter puncher but its not really a convincing one to me anyway. The fact that he will grab some easier winners from some awful mental mistakes doesn't make him a counter puncher. Counter punchers can well PUNCH hence the name.
I'm a 4.5 and have run into 4.5 pushers before. Not very many. Much more common <= 4.0.

And yes, if you give them a short ball putaway opportunity, of course they will attack it. It's simply that attacking is not their comfort zone and they win by staying in their comfort zone as much as possible while donating very few UEs.
 

Raul_SJ

G.O.A.T.
Somebody posted that GSG started at age 32.

If that is true, it is yet another reason that Ian will not lose. Ian has been playing since he was a kid.

GSG is effective but is an extreme anomaly as 99% with this style have a 4.0 ceiling.

At his peak, Ian was a solid 5.0 or higher. Ian will take care of this.

It is simply not good for the sport of tennis to have a trained player with aesthetic strokes lose to GSG.

Just look at GSG dinky serve. You would think the guy would practice the serve more and do something more than just dinking it in.

Good grief.
:(
 
Last edited:

giantschwinn

Semi-Pro
Ian probably lost. All the guys on his channel are righties. Lefties have trouble playing other lefties. If Ian doesn't practice against lefties, he is going to have trouble.
 
Ian probably lost. All the guys on his channel are righties. Lefties have trouble playing other lefties. If Ian doesn't practice against lefties, he is going to have trouble.
In this case, I don't think it will be a big factor. The most important part is adjusting to the spin, especially on the serve. For example, a lefty kick serve messes me up, especially when returning on the Ad court because my IO FH tends to go CC wide.

But MEP doesn't hit his serve with that kind of spin.

The 2nd biggest factor is reversing your CC/DTL thinking to attack one's opponent's BH [assuming that's his weaker shot]. This would be important if the opponent hit big GSs and relied on a power game.

Again, I don't think that's the case here.
 
All this time between the match and the video being released just makes you realize how pathetic it is that we're waiting to watch a march between two hacks. With all due respect to the human beings involved ;)
 

AnyPUG

Professional
When is the match.
:unsure:
Until the middle of last week, Ian from ET has consistently said "the match will be played a lot sooner than we think". Since the last weekend, he says "stay tuned" and the videos "may be" published in a few weeks time.
The flip with a lag tells us that the match has already been played sometime closer to the last weekend. Ian is definitely a 5.5 in dramatic shenanigan though he might be closer to 5.0 in tennis.
I hope some insider does not spill the beans and ruin the fun - I imagine folks want the great suspense to continue for many more weeks.
 
Last edited:

nochuola

Rookie
Ian said he wants to set up a series of videos to tell a story of the journey to the match. It will take about 4 to 6 weeks until the actual match video gets posted. That is literally all I know. I don't know how the match went or the score.
 

giantschwinn

Semi-Pro
In this case, I don't think it will be a big factor. The most important part is adjusting to the spin, especially on the serve. For example, a lefty kick serve messes me up, especially when returning on the Ad court because my IO FH tends to go CC wide.

But MEP doesn't hit his serve with that kind of spin.

The 2nd biggest factor is reversing your CC/DTL thinking to attack one's opponent's BH [assuming that's his weaker shot]. This would be important if the opponent hit big GSs and relied on a power game.

Again, I don't think that's the case here.
The thing is is Ian going to serve and volley? I don't think his serve is big enough to allow him to do that.
If he is going to stay at the baseline and exchange ground strokes, the lefty spin will throw off his timing if he is not used to it. Especially if his margin over GSG is not that much, a little bit makes a difference.
But I understand what you are saying about GSG's serve. And some lefties don't utilize their leftiness enough.
 
The thing is is Ian going to serve and volley? I don't think his serve is big enough to allow him to do that.
If he is going to stay at the baseline and exchange ground strokes, the lefty spin will throw off his timing if he is not used to it. Especially if his margin over GSG is not that much, a little bit makes a difference.
But I understand what you are saying about GSG's serve. And some lefties don't utilize their leftiness enough.
If he Sd and Vd, it would force MEP to play more aggressively with passing shots. That would take him out of his comfort zone.
 

curly_2350

New User
Wouldn't be surprised if they played more than one match, something like Ian loses the 1st match, then wins the next 2. To be posted game by game, over the next 15 years.
Maybe, but I think just losing one set would be pretty embarrassing for a tennis pro. Maybe first part is him down 0-4 in the first set being bamboozled and then somehow coming back to win in the tiebreak or something, and then easily winning next set. That would be the best reality tv story.
 

GuyClinch

Legend
The thing is is Ian going to serve and volley? I don't think his serve is big enough to allow him to do that.
If he is going to stay at the baseline and exchange ground strokes, the lefty spin will throw off his timing if he is not used to it. Especially if his margin over GSG is not that much, a little bit makes a difference.
But I understand what you are saying about GSG's serve. And some lefties don't utilize their leftiness enough.
Ian's serve looking to be in the high 90's at least in that video vs. Kevin Garlington. But against GSG he will probably just float it in to be nice.
 

davced1

Hall of Fame
When I watch that Ian footage in the other GSG thread it became very obvious to me that Ian is on a whole other level compared to GSG and it's not even close. On top of that he has analyzed GSG through multiple videos so he will not be taken by surprise. I don't see anything that will work in GSG's favor here. I will have the utmost respect for GSG if he can hang in there and make it somewhat competitive against a really good opponent.
 

Raul_SJ

G.O.A.T.
Until the middle of last week, Ian from ET has consistently said "the match will be played a lot sooner than we think". Since the last weekend, he says "stay tuned" and the videos "may be"
Isn't the match over?
Doesn't GSG post here? Or is he bound by some nondisclosure agreement?
If the match is over, any self respecting annoying pusher would be tooting his horn here.
 
Last edited:

AnyPUG

Professional
Doesn't GSG post here? Or is he bound by some nondisclosure agreement?
If the match is over, any self respecting annoying pusher would be tooting his horn here.
imo, it's a lot more useful and fun to watch some sort of story on the prep to the match and the match itself on video than some random score in text form.
I imagine it takes time and resources to produce quality video.
 
Top