MEP vs ET Players - Original TT Epic

Who wins?

  • Ian to dish out bagel and a stick

    Votes: 9 9.1%
  • Ian Wins

    Votes: 43 43.4%
  • Ian just manages to win

    Votes: 22 22.2%
  • Green shirt teaches Ian a lesson

    Votes: 6 6.1%
  • Green shirt wins

    Votes: 13 13.1%
  • Green shirt shocks the tennis world

    Votes: 6 6.1%

  • Total voters
    99
  • Poll closed .

FiddlerDog

Semi-Pro
Are you sure Sean is a 4.0 player? He plays like a 4.5.
I believe Sean is a 4.0
He is missing easy approach shots, and his serve is not on the same level as Mark Sansait.

Sean is totally out of breath for 2 entire sets. It is like he is hyperventilating.
I wonder if every match is like this or is Sean just filled with so much adrenaline and excitement that he can't catch his breath.

Today's set was incredible. 2 very close sets. My stomach is in knots. What a match. Great effort by both players.
 

GSG

Rookie
I'm trying to add a loop on my forehand. My current backswing looks similar to yours -- a pendulum type backswing. Never copied anyone. It is just a habit and it feels comfortable..

Have you ever thought of adding a loop backswing so that you get the gravity assist going forward into the ball? How much of an advantage is the loop forehand in your opinion?
:unsure:
I'm open to it, but if it's not already obvious, I don't put much conscious thought into the technical aspects of my strokes. Most of what goes through my mind tennis-wise is related to observation and strategy. That said, once I get fully comfortable with the new racquets I've been using, I'll probably try to expand my shot repertoire with them.
 

tlm

G.O.A.T.
So A >> B = C and therefore A >> C? But tennis isn't math. Oftentimes such comparisons fail.

And to be fair to Ben, he plays mostly outdoors and in the more extreme elements [ATL in summer is brutal] and he's playing indoors on a much faster court which is to his style's disadvantage.

Assuming the players you're thinking about span the entire range and not just the very best and assuming that metro ATL is fairly representative of the nation as a whole, there's a contradiction there. No amount of arguing will settle the dispute.

If I had to place confidence, I'd bet on metro ATL since there are so many players while your league is tiny by comparison.
All I know is Sean is beating MEP and I know that Sean would not have a chance in the club 4.5 league, that is why he is on a 4.0 team in that same league. So you can do your abc’s all day but it doesn’t matter.
 

tlm

G.O.A.T.
I believe Sean is a 4.0
He is missing easy approach shots, and his serve is not on the same level as Mark Sansait.

Sean is totally out of breath for 2 entire sets. It is like he is hyperventilating.
I wonder if every match is like this or is Sean just filled with so much adrenaline and excitement that he can't catch his breath.

Today's set was incredible. 2 very close sets. My stomach is in knots. What a match. Great effort by both players.
Exactly the 4.5 singles guys I watch at my club would rarely miss any of those approach shots and they hit them harder than Sean does. Sean is a 4.0 level player and he is a good one and he played very well against MEP but that doesn’t change the fact that he is not a 4.5 level player but yet he is still beating MEP.
 

tlm

G.O.A.T.
I don't buy any of the "my guy would smoke him" chit chat. Way to many variables to make these statements so emphatically. Maybe they would win, maybe not. No way to tell until match is played.

More importantly, statements like this display a complete lack of humility and respect. How about, "I think my guy would beat him because ..." @GSG record is what it is. For you to denigrate and entire cities league/players doesn't speak highly of you.
I have heard that Atlanta tennis is some of the best in the country so I am surprised that MEP does that well against 4.5 level players. Sean is a 4.0 player and he is beating MEP so it is not meant to disrespect anyone but just stating that it doesn’t make sense that a 4.0 level guy is beating a guy that wins in the tennis Mecca against 4.5 players.
 

tlm

G.O.A.T.
I think some are underestimating the differences between playing on a fast indoor court versus a slower outdoor court in the elements. This is why GSG is in a no win situation. Not only does he have very limited experience playing indoors but he's playing against players who have studied all of his matches. I also think some are underestimating the quality of GSG's opponents on Trolls channel.
I do agree that playing indoors is to Sean’s advantage, tougher to attack outside.
 

fundrazer

Legend
Exactly the 4.5 singles guys I watch at my club would rarely miss any of those approach shots and they hit them harder than Sean does. Sean is a 4.0 level player and he is a good one and he played very well against MEP but that doesn’t change the fact that he is not a 4.5 level player but yet he is still beating MEP.
This reminds me of some guy here saying his 4.5 league buddies would beat the guys who do the review videos for lafino on youtube.

It's also like me saying that the 4.5 guys at MY club would eat your moonballs for breakfast. Doesn't really get us anywhere.
 

tlm

G.O.A.T.
This reminds me of some guy here saying his 4.5 league buddies would beat the guys who do the review videos for lafino on youtube.

It's also like me saying that the 4.5 guys at MY club would eat your moonballs for breakfast. Doesn't really get us anywhere.
Can you explain why Sean plays on the 4.0 team in the indoor league I’m talking about please? But yet he is beating the 4.5 slayer MEP.
 

AnyPUG

Professional
Can you explain why Sean plays on the 4.0 team in the indoor league I’m talking about please? But yet he is beating the 4.5 slayer MEP.
What if Sean is an ET academy member who has been training to get better to challenge "defensive players" at 4.5 level? Any passionate player can do it!
 
Last edited:
All I know is Sean is beating MEP and I know that Sean would not have a chance in the club 4.5 league, that is why he is on a 4.0 team in that same league. So you can do your abc’s all day but it doesn’t matter.
No, it doesn't because the hypothetical matches* that you'd bet $1000 on will never happen.

*Everybody in the 4.5 league you reference has to crush GSG. Not just a few select upper 4.5s but all of them from best to worst.
 

mad dog1

G.O.A.T.
If I could line up a match between our clubs 4.5 singles guy and MEP I would put a thousand dollars on that match. MEP is not even close to the 4.5 guys in my clubs indoor league. Again Sean plays on the 4.0 team in this league and he is looking like he will beat MEP and Sean would get blown off the court in n this 4.5 league that I’m talking about.
Styles make fights. Match ups do matter in tennis.
 

tlm

G.O.A.T.
No, it doesn't because the hypothetical matches* that you'd bet $1000 on will never happen.

*Everybody in the 4.5 league you reference has to crush GSG. Not just a few select upper 4.5s but all of them from best to worst.
I never said every player in the league would crush him because most are doubles specialists, those leagues are 4 dubs and 1 singles. But yes the majority of the singles players would. Look this is nothing against Sean but he would have a tough time against our top 4.0 club singles guy let alone the 4.5 guy.
 

Raul_SJ

G.O.A.T.
this is the untold "story"- Sean is an ET academy member and has been training to get better for the last several months and now is in a position to challenge "defensive players" at 4.5 level and you can do it too! It will all be revealed in due time.
Did not know about this ET Academy. That makes sense. Sean has improved from
4.0 to 4.5 by training at Academy.

But maybe they should have revealed this Storyline before.
 

AnyPUG

Professional
Did not know about this ET Academy. That makes sense. Sean has improved from
4.0 to 4.5 by training at Academy.

But maybe they should have revealed this Storyline before.
I don't know that either - just made it up! since he does not play like a garden variety 4.0 (both shots and strategy) , it sounds plausible...
 
All I know is Sean is beating MEP and I know that Sean would not have a chance in the club 4.5 league, that is why he is on a 4.0 team in that same league. So you can do your abc’s all day but it doesn’t matter.
Your logic: My club 4.5s would crush Sean. Sean is beating MEP. Therefore, my club 4.5s would crush Sean.

Counter logic: MEP has a strong winning record in 4.5 league in ATL. ATL is a large metro area and likely representative of the nation as a whole. Therefore, MEP is a strong 4.5 in any region and would not get crushed by every 4.5 in your league [unless they are all upper 4.5].

@schmke could probably add to the ATL metro question.

There are 2 assumptions: A) that your club 4.5s would crush MEP; or B) that metro ATL is very weak relative to the nation generally and to your club 4.5s specifically.

To me, it's obvious that A is a much further stretch to assume. That and I hear the "my friend X would crush player Y" argument frequently which is hollow since the match never happens.

I'm open to change my mind if someone could prove metro ATL is very weak in 4.5 or matches are actually played where a wide range of the club 4.5s beat MEP.
 

tlm

G.O.A.T.
Your logic: My club 4.5s would crush Sean. Sean is beating MEP. Therefore, my club 4.5s would crush Sean.

Counter logic: MEP has a strong winning record in 4.5 league in ATL. ATL is a large metro area and likely representative of the nation as a whole. Therefore, MEP is a strong 4.5 in any region and would not get crushed by every 4.5 in your league [unless they are all upper 4.5].

@schmke could probably add to the ATL metro question.

There are 2 assumptions: A) that your club 4.5s would crush MEP; or B) that metro ATL is very weak relative to the nation generally and to your club 4.5s specifically.

To me, it's obvious that A is a much further stretch to assume. That and I hear the "my friend X would crush player Y" argument frequently which is hollow since the match never happens.

I'm open to change my mind if someone could prove metro ATL is very weak in 4.5 or matches are actually played where a wide range of the club 4.5s beat MEP.
I really don’t think Atlanta is very weak it’s supposed to be the opposite which makes sense in a popular tennis area. It just seems strange that Sean is beating MEP and Sean is definitely a 4.0 level player in the areas indoors tennis leagues and that is a fact.

So you say by my logic, well can you please explain why Sean plays at 4.0 level in our areas indoor leagues? He absolutely does and he can’t beat all the 4.0 guys in that league. So how in the world is he going to beat the 4.5 guys?
 

Raul_SJ

G.O.A.T.
Also keep in mind that this is basically MEP's first indoor match. He plays outside.
We have not seen his true level yet. He will only get better with more indoor play.
 

zipplock

Hall of Fame
I have heard that Atlanta tennis is some of the best in the country so I am surprised that MEP does that well against 4.5 level players. Sean is a 4.0 player and he is beating MEP so it is not meant to disrespect anyone but just stating that it doesn’t make sense that a 4.0 level guy is beating a guy that wins in the tennis Mecca against 4.5 players.
Fair enough. Maybe we should be questioning to 4.0 rating of Sean instead of the 4.5 rating of the player from ATL?
 
  • Like
Reactions: tlm

zipplock

Hall of Fame
Here is the only rating I can find for Sean, he must not play USTA because there are no records of him.

If he has no record then how can anyone say that he is a 4.0, or 4.5 for that matter. Other than cringy sandbaggers that self rate low, the only way to have ANY rating is to play those with ratings.
One of the players has this, the other does not it seems.
 

ZanderGoga

Semi-Pro
We don't really need to resort to the guesswork. The who would beat who at whatever imaginary level. Sean is bunting backhands, as unforced errors, literally fifteen feet out of bounds at times. He is taking elementary putaways, and hitting his "overheads" literally into the bottom of the net.

That guy is nowhere near a 4.5, anywhere except in Internet fantasy land, where fake tennis pros need players worse than them to make their make believe ratings look better. And where hopeless ball bunters with 70 mph serves have to make up stories about how they fare against ex-Davis cup players and used to earn their bread on the open circuit.

But the specific skills on display, or more to the point, lack thereof, don't lie.

This tennis is terrible.

Sean > MEP > travler, but the best among them is a weak 4.0 on a good day.
 

tlm

G.O.A.T.
If he has no record then how can anyone say that he is a 4.0, or 4.5 for that matter. Other than cringy sandbaggers that self rate low, the only way to have ANY rating is to play those with ratings.
One of the players has this, the other does not it seems.
That’s true the problem is that different leagues can vary a lot even though they say the same level number. The summer league I play in I play at 4.5 level but compared to the indoor winter league this 4.5 is like a weak 4.0.
 
I really don’t think Atlanta is very weak it’s supposed to be the opposite which makes sense in a popular tennis area. It just seems strange that Sean is beating MEP and Sean is definitely a 4.0 level player in the areas indoors tennis leagues and that is a fact.

So you say by my logic, well can you please explain why Sean plays at 4.0 level in our areas indoor leagues? He absolutely does and he can’t beat all the 4.0 guys in that league. So how in the world is he going to beat the 4.5 guys?
He plays at 4.0 because that's where he belongs in that league.

The problem is that you're only looking at one side of the equation and you're also not accounting for

- MEP playing indoors when he always plays outdoors
- MEP is playing on a fast surface when he's accustomed to slower surfaces
- Sean had plenty of intel to study prior to the match
- matchups: how well does your club 4.5s do against MEP's style? Some people look great when playing an opponent with a conventional style and fall apart when facing an unconventional opponent. It's easy to say that so-and-so would crush such-and-such but when the rubber meets the road, it often is a lot messier than that.

For example, I think I have an ideal style [S&V, attack the net] to match up vs MEP. And I'm a mid-4.5. Yet I'm not at all confident that I'd beat MEP, let alone crush him. I certainly wouldn't bet $1000 on the outcome nor would I want anyone else. Then you'd have conclude that I was in a weak region [SoCal] also. Sooner or later, that argument gets ridiculous. Either that your your club's 4.5s are the best in the universe.

Again, your line of logic is valid. You just have to weigh it against the metro ATL line of logic. Since there's no way to prove it either way, you just have to pick whichever one you think is more reasonable. We just happen to pick opposite choices.
 

tlm

G.O.A.T.
We don't really need to resort to the guesswork. The who would beat who at whatever imaginary level. Sean is bunting backhands, as unforced errors, literally fifteen feet out of bounds at times. He is taking elementary putaways, and hitting his "overheads" literally into the bottom of the net.

That guy is nowhere near a 4.5, anywhere except in Internet fantasy land, where fake tennis pros need players worse than them to make their make believe ratings look better. And where hopeless ball bunters with 70 mph serves have to make up stories about how they fare against ex-Davis cup players and used to earn their bread on the open circuit.

But the specific skills on display, or more to the point, lack thereof, don't lie.

This tennis is terrible.

Sean > MEP > travler, but the best among them is a weak 4.0 on a good day.
Well it looks like there is at least one guy here that lives in the real world. I couldn’t agree more and this has nothing to do with my ability, I know I’m a 4.0 hacker. But to call Sean and MEP strong 4.5 level players is laughable.
 
We don't really need to resort to the guesswork. The who would beat who at whatever imaginary level. Sean is bunting backhands, as unforced errors, literally fifteen feet out of bounds at times. He is taking elementary putaways, and hitting his "overheads" literally into the bottom of the net.

That guy is nowhere near a 4.5, anywhere except in Internet fantasy land, where fake tennis pros need players worse than them to make their make believe ratings look better. And where hopeless ball bunters with 70 mph serves have to make up stories about how they fare against ex-Davis cup players and used to earn their bread on the open circuit.

But the specific skills on display, or more to the point, lack thereof, don't lie.

This tennis is terrible.

Sean > MEP > travler, but the best among them is a weak 4.0 on a good day.
Skills can be interpreted differently; what you call terrible, someone else might disagree.

It's also relative: Sean playing against MEP might look a lot different from Sean playing a 3.5.

The tennis is representative of that level. If it's "terrible", then you're comparing it to play that's better, perhaps a lot better.

Sean's making a lot of errors, yes. He admits that. He's also forcing MEP to make errors with aggressive play. He chunked a couple of OHs; he also smacked several for winners. He's also hyperventilating, which makes fluid play difficult.

So yeah, Sean's making errors and also good plays. In other words, he's not perfect. No surprise to me. I look like that too, especially with cameras filming and recorders catching every word and expletive. Perhaps you look a lot better when competing.
 
Well it looks like there is at least one guy here that lives in the real world. I couldn’t agree more and this has nothing to do with my ability, I know I’m a 4.0 hacker. But to call Sean and MEP strong 4.5 level players is laughable.
MEP is, by definition, a strong 4.5 because of his record at 4.5 [14-1?]. The only way you could oppose that is to argue all of his opponents were overrated.

Sean was not called a strong 4.5. I'm not sure his rating was ever mentioned this time around. It was stated as 4.0 when Ian played him some 7 months ago.
 

tlm

G.O.A.T.
Here is a response from Sean that just answered me on YT. Can all you experts read and understand what he says here below? Now who knows what they are talking about and who is full of it?


Highlighted reply
Sean Ryan
12 minutes ago
@MrMull6 I’m with you. A 4.5 in our clubs would destroy me. Again, I wish I knew who you were. I’ve played them for fun. They eat my serve for lunch. They dictate every point. I’m not taking anything away from Ben, I just think this court talk excuse is bs. A 4.5 is a 4.5 and would have no problem destroying me on any surface, anywhere, anytime.
Read more
 
I really don’t think Atlanta is very weak it’s supposed to be the opposite which makes sense in a popular tennis area. It just seems strange that Sean is beating MEP and Sean is definitely a 4.0 level player in the areas indoors tennis leagues and that is a fact.

So you say by my logic, well can you please explain why Sean plays at 4.0 level in our areas indoor leagues? He absolutely does and he can’t beat all the 4.0 guys in that league. So how in the world is he going to beat the 4.5 guys?
BTW: I played against 2 MEP-like opponents at 4.5. Unconventional strokes, lots of slice, very mobile and athletic.

1st match: 4-4 30-40 when time ran out.

2nd match [same opponent]: 6-2 7-6 [0]

3rd match [different opponent]: 7-5 7-5

Of the two, the 2nd guy was most MEP-like. He was an ex-pro soccer player and could run forever and track practically everything down. I literally had to "win" the point 3 or 4 times because he was such a good retriever. My net game was not great but OK. But just a few points swing could have been a 5&5 loss.

My teammate, with whom I have close matches, lost 1&4. The matchup was horrible because my teammate was a big hitter who loved pace; he just didn't handle the low-paced shots very well.

That's a stark example of how matchups can play a major role. Usually the difference is not that obvious but this time it was.
 
Here is a response from Sean that just answered me on YT. Can all you experts read and understand what he says here below? Now who knows what they are talking about and who is full of it?


Highlighted reply
Sean Ryan
12 minutes ago
@MrMull6 I’m with you. A 4.5 in our clubs would destroy me. Again, I wish I knew who you were. I’ve played them for fun. They eat my serve for lunch. They dictate every point. I’m not taking anything away from Ben, I just think this court talk excuse is bs. A 4.5 is a 4.5 and would have no problem destroying me on any surface, anywhere, anytime.
Read more
One interpretation is that Sean is not accustomed to playing against MEP's style. The descriptions he uses above are typical for a typical, upper-level 4.5 who plays aggressively. It clearly does not describe an upper-level 4.5 who is defensive.

I don't typically win with power; I win with placement. I've played strong 4.0s and I definitely don't eat their serve for lunch or dictate every point. I still win but it's via a different path.
 

TennisProdigy

Professional
Here is a response from Sean that just answered me on YT. Can all you experts read and understand what he says here below? Now who knows what they are talking about and who is full of it?


Highlighted reply
Sean Ryan
12 minutes ago
@MrMull6 I’m with you. A 4.5 in our clubs would destroy me. Again, I wish I knew who you were. I’ve played them for fun. They eat my serve for lunch. They dictate every point. I’m not taking anything away from Ben, I just think this court talk excuse is bs. A 4.5 is a 4.5 and would have no problem destroying me on any surface, anywhere, anytime.
Read more
Sean looks like a benchmark 4.0 to me. However, to say a 4.5 would have no problem destroying him on any surface, anytime is something I disagree with.

Some players play better indoors in perfect conditions. Some players play best outdoors in hot conditions. Some players reveal their best tennis on windy days, on clay courts, on low bouncing courts, etc.

Even if Sean beats MEP, I still believe that MEP is a strong 4.5 player, simply based on his results. MEP himself has said that he plays best on a hot outdoor court, he is literally playing on his least preferred conditions.

If going by Sean’s logic, Nadal would have no problem “destroying” any player outside the top 50 on a fast indoor hard court no?
 

tlm

G.O.A.T.
One interpretation is that Sean is not accustomed to playing against MEP's style. The descriptions he uses above are typical for a typical, upper-level 4.5 who plays aggressively. It clearly does not describe an upper-level 4.5 who is defensive.

I don't typically win with power; I win with placement. I've played strong 4.0s and I definitely don't eat their serve for lunch or dictate every point. I still win but it's via a different path.
Did you hear him say that the 4.5 guys at his club destroy him? The point I’ve been trying to make which I know for a fact and Sean just backed it up. Sean has worked his way up the ladder and has played plenty of pusher style players in the past so all that talk is just that talk.
 
Here is a response from Sean that just answered me on YT. Can all you experts read and understand what he says here below? Now who knows what they are talking about and who is full of it?


Highlighted reply
Sean Ryan
12 minutes ago
@MrMull6 I’m with you. A 4.5 in our clubs would destroy me. Again, I wish I knew who you were. I’ve played them for fun. They eat my serve for lunch. They dictate every point. I’m not taking anything away from Ben, I just think this court talk excuse is bs. A 4.5 is a 4.5 and would have no problem destroying me on any surface, anywhere, anytime.
Read more
BTW: I don't think you should have posted that from Sean without his permission and informing him where you were going to post it [maybe he doesn't care].
 

tlm

G.O.A.T.
Sean looks like a benchmark 4.0 to me. However, to say a 4.5 would have no problem destroying him on any surface, anytime is something I disagree with.

Some players play better indoors in perfect conditions. Some players play best outdoors in hot conditions. Some players reveal their best tennis on windy days, on clay courts, on low bouncing courts, etc.

Even if Sean beats MEP, I still believe that MEP is a strong 4.5 player, simply based on his results. MEP himself has said that he plays best on a hot outdoor court, he is literally playing on his least preferred conditions.

If going by Sean’s logic, Nadal would have no problem “destroying” any player outside the top 50 on a fast indoor hard court no?
He is the one that said the 4.5 guys at his club destroy him easily just like I’ve been trying to explain.
 
its because this is a fast indoor court that favours aggressive tennis, what is there to argue about?

on a hot day on an outside court where conditions are slow its probably a much different story (as the stats seem to indicate)
It's easy to ignore variables like that when watching a video. I'm dying in 80 degree heat playing singles and pros are playing 5-setters in 100+ in the AO. But when I watch the match and see someone make an error, it's easy to say "how could you miss that?" without fully appreciating how exhausted they might be and how that affects their game.

Those 2 factors [fast court vs slow; and indoors vs outdoors] are huge and they both work against MEP since slow surfaces favor the defender and MEP is accustomed to playing outdoors and dealing with the elements.
 

zipplock

Hall of Fame
Here is a response from Sean that just answered me on YT. Can all you experts read and understand what he says here below? Now who knows what they are talking about and who is full of it?


Highlighted reply
Sean Ryan
12 minutes ago
@MrMull6 I’m with you. A 4.5 in our clubs would destroy me. Again, I wish I knew who you were. I’ve played them for fun. They eat my serve for lunch. They dictate every point. I’m not taking anything away from Ben, I just think this court talk excuse is bs. A 4.5 is a 4.5 and would have no problem destroying me on any surface, anywhere, anytime.
Read more
Think what you want. Not all players with the same rating are the same skill level. This is a fact. Also, matchup issues are real. To make a blanket statement about "a 4.5 is a 4.5" is ignorant.
 
Did you hear him say that the 4.5 guys at his club destroy him? The point I’ve been trying to make which I know for a fact and Sean just backed it up. Sean has worked his way up the ladder and has played plenty of pusher style players in the past so all that talk is just that talk.
How many of the pushers he's played went 14-1 at 4.5?

I see your thinking: "4.5s would destroy Sean. MEP is not destroying Sean. Therefore, MEP is not a 4.5."

I think it's more subtle than that as I've already outlined. And it tries to account for things like court speed and indoor/outdoor, which are huge, IMO.
 

tlm

G.O.A.T.
Think what you want. Not all players with the same rating are the same skill level. This is a fact. Also, matchup issues are real. To make a blanket statement about "a 4.5 is a 4.5" is ignorant.
No kidding all players with the same rating are definitely not the same skill level. But what is ignorant is all this arguments I’m getting even though I know Sean and what level he is and that he cannot hang with the 4.5 players at our club. Which he himself verified but yet somehow it’s still not true lol. Only on this site can the BS get this deep n
 

tlm

G.O.A.T.
How many of the pushers he's played went 14-1 at 4.5?

I see your thinking: "4.5s would destroy Sean. MEP is not destroying Sean. Therefore, MEP is not a 4.5."

I think it's more subtle than that as I've already outlined. And it tries to account for things like court speed and indoor/outdoor, which are huge, IMO.
Ya right it’s all about court speed. Look I will say it’s a slight advantage for Sean playing indoors but it’s not a game changer.
 
Top