MEP vs ET Players - Original TT Epic

Who wins?

  • Ian to dish out bagel and a stick

    Votes: 9 9.1%
  • Ian Wins

    Votes: 43 43.4%
  • Ian just manages to win

    Votes: 22 22.2%
  • Green shirt teaches Ian a lesson

    Votes: 6 6.1%
  • Green shirt wins

    Votes: 13 13.1%
  • Green shirt shocks the tennis world

    Votes: 6 6.1%

  • Total voters
    99
  • Poll closed .

zipplock

Hall of Fame
No kidding all players with the same rating are definitely not the same skill level. But what is ignorant is all this arguments I’m getting even though I know Sean and what level he is and that he cannot hang with the 4.5 players at our club. Which he himself verified but yet somehow it’s still not true lol. Only on this site can the BS get this deep n
The problem is of these other folks being referenced, who has a USTA computer rating?????
MEP does, and it's 4.5. How the heck do any of these guys know what their rating would be? Eye test?
 
No kidding all players with the same rating are definitely not the same skill level. But what is ignorant is all this arguments I’m getting even though I know Sean and what level he is and that he cannot hang with the 4.5 players at our club. Which he himself verified but yet somehow it’s still not true lol. Only on this site can the BS get this deep n
No one's disputing that Sean cannot hang with the club 4.5s. What's in dispute is how will this translate to those 4.5s playing MEP.

Your logic is "The club 4.5s will crush Sean therefore they will crush MEP."

My logic is "MEP has a 14-1 record at 4.5 therefore the club 4.5s will not crush MEP [unless the club 4.5s are outlier upper-level 4.5s and not spread throughout the 4.5 range or metro ATL or all of MEP's opponents are vastly overrated]."

Everyone gets to pick which line of reasoning makes more sense.

To make things fair, your group of 4.5s should consist of people who only play indoors and the matches will take place in July in ATL outdoors.
 
Ya right it’s all about court speed. Look I will say it’s a slight advantage for Sean playing indoors but it’s not a game changer.
Having only played outdoors myself, I can't personally comment on how radical a change it would be move to indoors; I suspect my style would benefit from it.

But yeah, court surface and environmental conditions are huge factors, IMO.
 

zipplock

Hall of Fame
Having only played outdoors myself, I can't personally comment on how radical a change it would be move to indoors; I suspect my style would benefit from it.

But yeah, court surface and environmental conditions are huge factors, IMO.
I have played extensively on indoor and outdoor courts. They are very different. Lighting is also very different so tracking the ball is different.
 

tlm

G.O.A.T.
No one's disputing that Sean cannot hang with the club 4.5s. What's in dispute is how will this translate to those 4.5s playing MEP.

Your logic is "The club 4.5s will crush Sean therefore they will crush MEP."

My logic is "MEP has a 14-1 record at 4.5 therefore the club 4.5s will not crush MEP [unless the club 4.5s are outlier upper-level 4.5s and not spread throughout the 4.5 range or metro ATL or all of MEP's opponents are vastly overrated]."

Everyone gets to pick which line of reasoning makes more sense.

To make things fair, your group of 4.5s should consist of people who only play indoors and the matches will take place in July in ATL outdoors.
Well those same short weak slices that MEP is hitting consistently will be crushed by the guys I’m talking about. But hey think what you want no way to no for sure unless they played. But ask Sean and I am positive that he will tell you that these guys would crush MEP but whatever we will never know for sure.
 

GSG

Rookie
Having only played outdoors myself, I can't personally comment on how radical a change it would be move to indoors; I suspect my style would benefit from it.

But yeah, court surface and environmental conditions are huge factors, IMO.
I can say unequivocally that the indoor court surface was by far the biggest challenge for me in the ET matches. The travel, 4 matches in 3 days, the lighting and wearing a mic belt during matches didn't even come close to that. The behavior of the ball is so much different indoors compared to outside, and >99% of the tennis I've played in the last six years has been outdoors.
 

Dolgopolov85

G.O.A.T.
for all those that complain about those videos _not_ being released all at once. I'm assuming you have also cancelled your HBO subscription once you found out that they are going to be releasing only one episode of Game of Thrones every week - even though they clearly had _all of the episodes_ filmed and ready. (you can substitute HBO/Game Of Thrones for another network/series).....
Oh yeah, clearly, by the looks of it, Ian thinks this one match is a coveted entertainment property on the level of GoT.
 

schmke

Hall of Fame
If he has no record then how can anyone say that he is a 4.0, or 4.5 for that matter. Other than cringy sandbaggers that self rate low, the only way to have ANY rating is to play those with ratings.
One of the players has this, the other does not it seems.
Sean appears to have two Tri-Level matches from 2019 and based on those is a top of level 4.0 by my ratings. Small sample and nearly two years ago, but there you have it FWIW.
 
D

Deleted member 780836

Guest
Here is a response from Sean that just answered me on YT. Can all you experts read and understand what he says here below? Now who knows what they are talking about and who is full of it?


Highlighted reply
Sean Ryan
12 minutes ago
@MrMull6 I’m with you. A 4.5 in our clubs would destroy me. Again, I wish I knew who you were. I’ve played them for fun. They eat my serve for lunch. They dictate every point. I’m not taking anything away from Ben, I just think this court talk excuse is bs. A 4.5 is a 4.5 and would have no problem destroying me on any surface, anywhere, anytime.
Read more
So this is the last time we see Sean in a ET video lmao. He didn't agree with Ian and his hivemind so he is banished from the ET universe :laughing:
I agree with Sean though, everyone is focusing on MEP assuming everything is perfect with Sean. Sean has nerves, not used to being filmed, has played 1 match on the ET court and drove 2 hours on the day of the match.
Atlanta might be a hotbed for tennis, but is it competitive with other regions when MEP has a fantastic record there but gets beaten by a 4.0 in the midw*st?
(Why the eff is medw*st being bleeped out? The tw competitor?)
 
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D

Deleted member 780836

Guest
I can say unequivocally that the indoor court surface was by far the biggest challenge for me in the ET matches. The travel, 4 matches in 3 days, the lighting and wearing a mic belt during matches didn't even come close to that. The behavior of the ball is so much different indoors compared to outside, and >99% of the tennis I've played in the last six years has been outdoors.
Same excuses apply to Sean, see my comment above. This was your first match right? 4 matches 3 days excuse doesn't apply. Sean has played only 1 match on the ET court and said it was also a massive challenge. Time to accept the results and move on, no excuses.
 
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FuzzyYellowBalls

Professional
This has been one of the most entertaining reads lately on the TW boards. On a different note, how many other people are sensitive to indoors outdoors? I don't find a difference at all unless the surface is "american" green clay, but that can be indoors or outdoors, a roof overhead doesn't even make me think twice. I would prefer to play in 100 degree plus weather outside, but that's just because I am used to it going back to when I started playing as a kid. I just can't imagine if there was a difference that it would sway a match. I know the trigger judgement here will be that I am not advanced, but really I don't notice that much difference indoors our out, not enough to make me think about it. Grass, yes, red clay, yes, american clay, barely, but not roof or no roof.
 

tlm

G.O.A.T.
Same excuses apply to Sean, see my comment above. This was your first match right? 4 matches 3 days excuse doesn't apply. Sean has played only 1 match on the ET court and said it was also a massive challenge. Time to accept the results and move on, no excuses.
Yep but not many here can face reality.
 

tlm

G.O.A.T.
So this is the last time we see Sean in a ET video lmao. He didn't agree with Ian and his hivemind so he is banished from the ET universe :laughing:
I agree with Sean though, everyone is focusing on MEP assuming everything is perfect with Sean. Sean has nerves, not used to being filmed, has played 1 match on the ET court and drove 2 hours on the day of the match.
Atlanta might be a hotbed for tennis, but is it competitive with other regions when MEP has a fantastic record there but gets beaten by a 4.0 in the midw*st?
(Why the eff is medw*st being bleeped out? The tw competitor?)
Exactly my thoughts
 
Same excuses apply to Sean, see my comment above. This was your first match right? 4 matches 3 days excuse doesn't apply. Sean has played only 1 match on the ET court and said it was also a massive challenge. Time to accept the results and move on, no excuses.
It didn't sound like he was making excuses [ie "Yeah, I lost but I wasn't wearing my lucky socks."]. He pointed out a valid factor that was a challenge. I think most would agree that this would be a factor.

Sean presumably plays indoors at the club @tlm refers to so he's at least familiar with indoors.

A counterpoint would be a rematch in ATL in the summer outdoors, not in an attempt to negate what happened in the first match but as an additional data point.
 

GSG

Rookie
Same excuses apply to Sean, see my comment above. This was your first match right? 4 matches 3 days excuse doesn't apply. Sean has played only 1 match on the ET court and said it was also a massive challenge. Time to accept the results and move on, no excuses.
It was intended to provide additional insight, not to make an excuse. I got the sense Sean plays indoors somewhat regularly. I think the transition from an outdoor court to an indoor one is much greater than going from one indoor court to another. Just my opinion of course.
 
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Atlanta might be a hotbed for tennis, but is it competitive with other regions when MEP has a fantastic record there but gets beaten by a 4.0 in the midw*st?
I find it more reasonable to believe ATL is competitive with other regions given its size and history than to believe that some club's 4.5s are all at the very top of the range.
 

tlm

G.O.A.T.
It didn't sound like he was making excuses [ie "Yeah, I lost but I wasn't wearing my lucky socks."]. He pointed out a valid factor that was a challenge. I think most would agree that this would be a factor.

Sean presumably plays indoors at the club @tlm refers to so he's at least familiar with indoors.

A counterpoint would be a rematch in ATL in the summer outdoors, not in an attempt to negate what happened in the first match but as an additional data point.
It’s much much easier to play inside than it is outside.
 

tlm

G.O.A.T.
I got the sense Sean predominantly plays indoors. I think the transition from an outdoor court to an indoor one is much greater than going from one indoor court to another. Just my opinion of course.
I’ve played Sean 3 times and twice it was outside. He plays all year so he definitely plays a lot of outdoor tennis, our outdoor tennis is from April to November.
 
I got the sense Sean predominantly plays indoors. I think the transition from an outdoor court to an indoor one is much greater than going from one indoor court to another. Just my opinion of course.
The transition from indoor to outdoor with the Atlanta heat, humidity, and midday sun would also be a huge transition. People watching a video can easily underestimate how much of a factor those can be. We can criticize someone missing an OH while looking into the sun but anyone who says they've never done that is probably lying. Or trying to account for high heat & humidity.
 

jmnk

Hall of Fame
If I could line up a match between our clubs 4.5 singles guy and MEP I would put a thousand dollars on that match. MEP is not even close to the 4.5 guys in my clubs indoor league. Again Sean plays on the 4.0 team in this league and he is looking like he will beat MEP and Sean would get blown off the court in n this 4.5 league that I’m talking about.
I see a business opportunity here. You are saying "a match between our clubs 4.5 singles guy and MEP" for a thousand dollars. If you allow me to pick a player from your club that has played a singles match in that JBITL League (that is the league you are talking about, right?), which by definition would be 'a 4.5 singles guy' I may be inclined to fund another @GSG trip to M i d w e s t.

Now, seriously (not that the above is out of the question). What part of the following you do not get:
  1. In that league you keep mentioning 4.5 is the highest level.
  2. The only restriction I can see in the rules is
    • "
    • B) Current college players are ineligible. “Current” means any player who participated on a college Varsity team in any way and still is enrolled at school in the same academic year in question.
    • C) Players must be at least 21 years of age.
    • "
  3. That means that _anyone_ that just finished college, let's say someone that played on Illinois or Northwestern team, can play at 4.5 level the following year. Heck, if just retired Dolgopovol could move to Chicago and join that league at 4.5 level.
  4. In practice that means that players at 4.5 level in this league are a mix of USTA high 4.0, USTA 4.5, USTA 5.0 and whatever higher.
  5. As I've mentioned, I know few of those players. I've played them. They may be USTA 4.5 players but barely. They have no chance against MEP.
  6. I'm sure others are way better. There's a guy that looks like he played at UoC #1 few years back. If I get his name right he is USTA 5.0. Surely he would beat MEP. So what.
  7. The entire point is that _there's almost no correlation between your league 4.5 and USTA 4.5_. If a player from your 4.5 league beats MEP that means absolutely nothing about respective USTA levels in M i d w e s t and Atlanta area.
  8. As a side note - how come so few of the guys from the league play USTA? I mean if they are sooo good - wouldn't it be fun for them to dominate USTA at 4.5 level?
 
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GSG

Rookie
I’ve played Sean 3 times and twice it was outside. He plays all year so he definitely plays a lot of outdoor tennis, our outdoor tennis is from April to November.
Ok then.. I'm in no position to question first hand experience. Y'all must get pretty cold in November sometimes!
 

chetrbox

Rookie
That guy is nowhere near a 4.5, anywhere except in Internet fantasy land, where fake tennis pros need players worse than them to make their make believe ratings look better. And where hopeless ball bunters with 70 mph serves have to make up stories about how they fare against ex-Davis cup players and used to earn their bread on the open circuit.
There is a more innocent explanation than posters making up stories. If I were an ex-Davis cup player in a developing country and had the opportunity to get paid well to play with a rec hacker from the developed world, I would probably massage their ego by losing once in a while so that they would want to keep coming back. A loss(or close match) means nothing to the pro but would probably be the highlight of the rec player's week.

I kind of hope MEP never changes his style of play just so he keeps puncturing the bubbles that some rec players seem to live in. It's a useful service to expose more people to reality.
 
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tlm

G.O.A.T.
Ok then.. I'm in no position to question first hand experience. Y'all must get pretty cold in November sometimes!
We play up to November and yes there still are some days you can still play outside in November. Most of us play outside as long as possible so believe me we play in a lot of adverse conditions outside at times.
 

Dolgopolov85

G.O.A.T.
This is the classic Youtuber strategy, no sooner should a few people on TT express displeasure at Ian stringing people on, push back at "all the negativity". Suck it up, man, there's a reason you have a thumbs down button too, so let people use it.

 
I see a business opportunity here. You are saying "a match between our clubs 4.5 singles guy and MEP" for a thousand dollars. If you allow me to pick a player from your club that has played a singles match in that JBITL League (that is the league you are talking about, right?), which by definition would be 'a 4.5 singles guy' I may be inclined to fund another @GSG trip to M i d w e s t.

Now, seriously (not that the above is out of the question). What part of the following you do not get:
  1. In that league you keep mentioning 4.5 is the highest level.
  2. The only restriction I can see in the rules is
    • "
    • B) Current college players are ineligible. “Current” means any player who participated on a college Varsity team in any way and still is enrolled at school in the same academic year in question.
    • C) Players must be at least 21 years of age.
    • "
  3. That means that _anyone_ that just finished college, let's say someone that played on Illinois team, can play at 4.5 level the following year. Heck, if just retired Dolgopovol could move to Chicago and join that league at 4.5 level.
  4. In practice that means that players at 4.5 level in this league are a mix of USTA high 4.0, USTA 4.5, USTA 5.0 and whatever higher.
  5. As I've mentioned, I know few of those players. I've played them. They may be USTA 4.5 players but barely. They have no chance against MEP.
  6. I'm sure others are way better. There's a guy that looks like he played at UoC #1 few years back. If I get his name right he is USTA 5.0. Surely he would beat MEP. So what.
  7. The entire point is that _there's almost no correlation between your league 4.5 and USTA 4.5_. If a player from your 4.5 league beats MEP that means absolutely nothing about respective USTA levels in M i d w e s t and Atlanta area.
  8. As a side note - how come so few of the guys from the league play USTA? I mean if they are sooo good - wouldn't it be fun for them to dominate USTA at 4.5 level?
Good point. I did bring up the possibility that the club 4.5s were outliers but the description above makes it not only possible but likely.

Further, @tlm didn't just claim that the best 4.5 would destroy MEP, he claimed that all of them would. Even one supposedly at the bottom of 4.5. I find this hard to believe [again, unless they were outliers].

@tlm: what are the UTRs of this group of 4.5s? If they're all 9+, they'll probably win easily [but a win by them wouldn't prove much since it's hardly representative of 4.5, which ranges from ~6-9].

As to your point #8, there is an informal league around here where 4.5 is the bottom of the barrel. Ex UCLA and USC guys play in this league. Jason Jung [career high #114] plays. If they called it a 4.5 league and every guy destroyed MEP, would that mean MEP wasn't a strong 4.5/borderline 5.0? No, it just means that the guys in this league are that much better.

I suspect they don't play USTA because they don't need USTA and they get more competitive matches doing their own thing.
 

tlm

G.O.A.T.
I see a business opportunity here. You are saying "a match between our clubs 4.5 singles guy and MEP" for a thousand dollars. If you allow me to pick a player from your club that has played a singles match in that JBITL League (that is the league you are talking about, right?), which by definition would be 'a 4.5 singles guy' I may be inclined to fund another @GSG trip to M i d w e s t.

Now, seriously (not that the above is out of the question). What part of the following you do not get:
  1. In that league you keep mentioning 4.5 is the highest level.
  2. The only restriction I can see in the rules is
    • "
    • B) Current college players are ineligible. “Current” means any player who participated on a college Varsity team in any way and still is enrolled at school in the same academic year in question.
    • C) Players must be at least 21 years of age.
    • "
  3. That means that _anyone_ that just finished college, let's say someone that played on Illinois or Northwestern team, can play at 4.5 level the following year. Heck, if just retired Dolgopovol could move to Chicago and join that league at 4.5 level.
  4. In practice that means that players at 4.5 level in this league are a mix of USTA high 4.0, USTA 4.5, USTA 5.0 and whatever higher.
  5. As I've mentioned, I know few of those players. I've played them. They may be USTA 4.5 players but barely. They have no chance against MEP.
  6. I'm sure others are way better. There's a guy that looks like he played at UoC #1 few years back. If I get his name right he is USTA 5.0. Surely he would beat MEP. So what.
  7. The entire point is that _there's almost no correlation between your league 4.5 and USTA 4.5_. If a player from your 4.5 league beats MEP that means absolutely nothing about respective USTA levels in M i d w e s t and Atlanta area.
  8. As a side note - how come so few of the guys from the league play USTA? I mean if they are sooo good - wouldn't it be fun for them to dominate USTA at 4.5 level?
Lol you are hilarious, you get to pick the opponent. That’s a good one I specifically said the guy that plays singles for the indoor club I belong to. The USTA is not the end all and to some it means nothing. A lot of these guys mainly play indoor winter leagues and could care less about the USTA.
 

time_fly

Hall of Fame
I can say unequivocally that the indoor court surface was by far the biggest challenge for me in the ET matches. The travel, 4 matches in 3 days, the lighting and wearing a mic belt during matches didn't even come close to that. The behavior of the ball is so much different indoors compared to outside, and >99% of the tennis I've played in the last six years has been outdoors.
I play in New England where, depending on how much of a weather wimp you are, 4-7 months are primarily indoor tennis — and our USTA leagues are played mostly indoors — and the remainder are outdoor. In the summer we can have periods of Atlanta-like heat and humidity as well. In the winter, depending on the club, the ambient temperature might be low-50s to low 60s with the heat on. Sadly, most clubs aren’t air conditioned in the summer and it’s like a sauna inside should you have to play indoors.

It always takes me some time to adjust going indoors to outdoors. Some indoor courts are slower than others, but they are generally faster than outdoor hard courts. I suspect ET’s court hasn’t been resurfaced recently and plays especially fast. You can get away with not resurfacing for much longer indoors since the surface isn’t exposed to the elements, and the court will keep getting smoother and faster. In the cooler months, the ball skids and stays down a lot more indoors, and topspin tends to have less hop and heaviness. The perspective on hitting serves and overheads with a roof vs. open sky is different. I think slicers and flat power hitters benefit from the indoor courts, and outdoors there’s most benefit to hitting a heavier ball.

As a pusher / junk baller, the two shots you want to use indoors are short and low, and deep and high. So far in the match against Sean you seem to have picked up on the benefit of deep, high balls. Now I want to see if you figure out how to keep those shorter balls lower to make it harder for him to attack. Right now your flatter defensive strokes are traveling right into his strike zone.
 

tlm

G.O.A.T.
Good point. I did bring up the possibility that the club 4.5s were outliers but the description above makes it not only possible but likely.

Further, @tlm didn't just claim that the best 4.5 would destroy MEP, he claimed that all of them would. Even one supposedly at the bottom of 4.5. I find this hard to believe [again, unless they were outliers].

@tlm: what are the UTRs of this group of 4.5s? If they're all 9+, they'll probably win easily [but a win by them wouldn't prove much since it's hardly representative of 4.5, which ranges from ~6-9].

As to your point #8, there is an informal league around here where 4.5 is the bottom of the barrel. Ex UCLA and USC guys play in this league. Jason Jung [career high #114] plays. If they called it a 4.5 league and every guy destroyed MEP, would that mean MEP wasn't a strong 4.5/borderline 5.0? No, it just means that the guys in this league are that much better.

I suspect they don't play USTA because they don't need USTA and they get more competitive matches doing their own thing.
I don’t recall saying that all would destroy him. I said the majority of the singles players would.
 

jmnk

Hall of Fame
Lol you are hilarious, you get to pick the opponent. That’s a good one I specifically said the guy that plays singles for the indoor club I belong to. The USTA is not the end all and to some it means nothing. A lot of these guys mainly play indoor winter leagues and could care less about the USTA.
What do you mean? You yourself said "If I could line up a match between our clubs 4.5 singles guy and MEP I would put a thousand dollars on that match. MEP is not even close to the 4.5 guys in my clubs indoor league. " That means that _any_ player from your league that plays singles at 4.5 level. Not one particular that has played #1 at UoC just few years back, _any_. So what's wrong with me picking the opponent that meets your criteria. What, you are now _not_ so sure that every 4.5 singles player on that league from your club would beat MEP? You don't say.....
 

jmnk

Hall of Fame
Good point. I did bring up the possibility that the club 4.5s were outliers but the description above makes it not only possible but likely.

Further, @tlm didn't just claim that the best 4.5 would destroy MEP, he claimed that all of them would. Even one supposedly at the bottom of 4.5. I find this hard to believe [again, unless they were outliers].

@tlm: what are the UTRs of this group of 4.5s? If they're all 9+, they'll probably win easily [but a win by them wouldn't prove much since it's hardly representative of 4.5, which ranges from ~6-9].

As to your point #8, there is an informal league around here where 4.5 is the bottom of the barrel. Ex UCLA and USC guys play in this league. Jason Jung [career high #114] plays. If they called it a 4.5 league and every guy destroyed MEP, would that mean MEP wasn't a strong 4.5/borderline 5.0? No, it just means that the guys in this league are that much better.

I suspect they don't play USTA because they don't need USTA and they get more competitive matches doing their own thing.
exactly
 

tlm

G.O.A.T.
What do you mean? You yourself said "If I could line up a match between our clubs 4.5 singles guy and MEP I would put a thousand dollars on that match. MEP is not even close to the 4.5 guys in my clubs indoor league. " That means that _any_ player from your league that plays singles at 4.5 level. Not one particular that has played #1 at UoC just few years back, _any_. So what's wrong with me picking the opponent that meets your criteria. What, you are now _not_ so sure that every 4.5 singles player on that league from your club would beat MEP? You don't say.....
My exact words are the majority of the 4.5 singles players would beat him, that doesn’t include the guys that can only play at 4.5 level if they are playing doubles.

Hey you guys can think what you want, it’s useless debating with people that even hearing it from Sean first hand still don’t believe it.
 

Raul_SJ

G.O.A.T.
I can say unequivocally that the indoor court surface was by far the biggest challenge for me in the ET matches.
I mainly played outdoors and then had to play indoors where the roof was quite low and throwing up a high defensive lob as you would outside was pretty much off the table. Had to plan out the lobs... But the roof at Ian's court does not look too low... Can't figure out what all those white boxes and forklifts are doing there.
 
I mainly played outdoors and then had to play indoors where the roof was quite low and throwing up a high defensive lob as you would outside was pretty much off the table. Had to plan out the lobs... But the roof at Ian's court does not look too low... Can't figure out what all those white boxes and forklifts are doing there.
The boxes contain all of the ET fan mail; forklifts are needed to handle the stuff.
 

jmnk

Hall of Fame
My exact words are the majority of the 4.5 singles players would beat him, that doesn’t include the guys that can only play at 4.5 level if they are playing doubles.

Hey you guys can think what you want, it’s useless debating with people that even hearing it from Sean first hand still don’t believe it.
Your exact words are:
If I could line up a match between our clubs 4.5 singles guy and MEP I would put a thousand dollars on that match. MEP is not even close to the 4.5 guys in my clubs indoor league. Again Sean plays on the 4.0 team in this league and he is looking like he will beat MEP and Sean would get blown off the court in n this 4.5 league that I’m talking about.
I've proposed that I'll pick a guy that:
  1. plays in that league at 4.5 level, and
  2. has played a singles match(es)
how does that not match your criteria?

as far as debating. I still do not get why it is hard for you to understand that your league 4.5 level _does not equal_ USTA 4.5 level. Some _your league 4.5 players_ are better than USTA 4.5, some are the same, and some are likely worse.
 
Hey you guys can think what you want, it’s useless debating with people that even hearing it from Sean first hand still don’t believe it.
I believe Sean when he stated that the 4.5s would destroy him. I don't believe that means they'd all destroy MEP. That's the assumption you're making that cannot be proved.

Again, if these guys have UTRs, it would be easy to compare them vs MEP. If they are all 9+, then we'd know why you're so confident.
 

jmnk

Hall of Fame
I believe Sean when he stated that the 4.5s would destroy him. I don't believe that means they'd all destroy MEP. That's the assumption you're making that cannot be proved.

Again, if these guys have UTRs, it would be easy to compare them vs MEP. If they are all 9+, then we'd know why you're so confident.
apparently @tlm just wants to use a sample size of one. The player that not too long ago played #1 singles for perennial powerhouse Div3 tennis program - University of Chicago. And then extrapolate that _every other player in that 4.5 league_ is also as good. But, as he is unwilling to let me pick _any other player_ as an opponent for @GSG
 
Your exact words are:


I've proposed that I'll pick a guy that:
  1. plays in that league at 4.5 level, and
  2. has played a singles match(es)
how does that not match your criteria?

as far as debating. I still do not get why it is hard for you to understand that your league 4.5 level _does not equal_ USTA 4.5 level. Some _your league 4.5 players_ are better than USTA 4.5, some are the same, and some are likely worse.
His first sentence refers to one guy. His next sentence refers to every 4.5 guy. Unless they are all UTR 9+ [which means they aren't likely 4.5s but 5.0s], they would not crush MEP.

That sounds like a reasonable statement to me [of course, I made it so of course it sounds reasonable].
 

jmnk

Hall of Fame
His first sentence refers to one guy. His next sentence refers to every 4.5 guy. Unless they are all UTR 9+ [which means they aren't likely 4.5s but 5.0s], they would not crush MEP.

That sounds like a reasonable statement to me [of course, I made it so of course it sounds reasonable].
yes. But he also quoted Sean comments on YT:
Here is a response from Sean that just answered me on YT. Can all you experts read and understand what he says here below? Now who knows what they are talking about and who is full of it?


Highlighted reply
Sean Ryan
12 minutes ago
@MrMull6 I’m with you. A 4.5 in our clubs would destroy me. Again, I wish I knew who you were. I’ve played them for fun. They eat my serve for lunch. They dictate every point. I’m not taking anything away from Ben, I just think this court talk excuse is bs. A 4.5 is a 4.5 and would have no problem destroying me on any surface, anywhere, anytime.
Read more
and clearly agreed with Sean. All together one can make a reasonable guess that both @tlm and Sean are convinced that at least _most_ players at 4.5 level on that fascinating non-USTA league would beat @GSG.
 

Keizer

Hall of Fame
apparently @tlm just wants to use a sample size of one. The player that not too long ago played #1 singles for perennial powerhouse Div3 tennis program - University of Chicago. And then extrapolate that _every other player in that 4.5 league_ is also as good. But, as he is unwilling to let me pick _any other player_ as an opponent for @GSG
Agreed that #1 singles for UChicago being a 4.5 is surprising to me. A lot of the top D3 kids are at least 3 star recruits out of high school, and I’d imagine UChicago gets multiple 4 stars every year. I’d imagine someone that got to the top of the singles ladder there was a 5.0.
 

tlm

G.O.A.T.
Your exact words are:


I've proposed that I'll pick a guy that:
  1. plays in that league at 4.5 level, and
  2. has played a singles match(es)
how does that not match your criteria?

as far as debating. I still do not get why it is hard for you to understand that your league 4.5 level _does not equal_ USTA 4.5 level. Some _your league 4.5 players_ are better than USTA 4.5, some are the same, and some are likely worse.
Different leagues do vary in skill levels no doubt, but most of the time USTA is stronger than the club leagues I’m talking about. Hey you can put any match in your dream world you want I could care less. Sean plays at a different club than I do and he said that the 4.5 guys at his club destroy him.

But let me guess that doesn’t mean anything right? Just because Sean gets destroyed by them and he beat MEP means nothing when it comes to MEP playing them. Lol Hey whatever I’m sure MEP will be dominating the 5.0 league within a month or two.
 

jmnk

Hall of Fame
Agreed that #1 singles for UChicago being a 4.5 is surprising to me. A lot of the top D3 kids are at least 3 star recruits out of high school, and I’d imagine UChicago gets multiple 4 stars every year. I’d imagine someone that got to the top of the singles ladder there was a 5.0.
he is _not_ 4.5 USTA. @tlm confuses everybody. his league is NOT USTA league. There's no level higher than 4.5 in his league. Literally anyone that is not _current_ college player can join and play at 4.5
 
yes. But he also quoted Sean comments on YT:

and clearly agreed with Sean. All together one can make a reasonable guess that both @tlm and Sean are convinced that at least _most_ players at 4.5 level on that fascinating non-USTA league would beat @GSG.
Agreed. And since neither of them are 4.5, they are extrapolating. Sean seems a lot closer to 4.5 so he has better perspective but I don't believe that a bottom 4.5 would crush Sean.

Again we circle back to this mysterious "4.5" league which may not be 4.5 at all which means we're all not on the same page. Which is why I asked for UTRs and suspect I won't get a reply.
 

jmnk

Hall of Fame
Different leagues do vary in skill levels no doubt, but most of the time USTA is stronger than the club leagues I’m talking about. Hey you can put any match in your dream world you want I could care less. Sean plays at a different club than I do and he said that the 4.5 guys at his club destroy him.

But let me guess that doesn’t mean anything right? Just because Sean gets destroyed by them and he beat MEP means nothing when it comes to MEP playing them. Lol Hey whatever I’m sure MEP will be dominating the 5.0 league within a month or two.
sure. Most of the time means sometimes it is not the case. Your league may be one of those cases. @S&V-not_dead_yet league in California he mentioned few posts up is another example of that not being the case.
I give up. so I suppose no bet after all?
 
Different leagues do vary in skill levels no doubt, but most of the time USTA is stronger than the club leagues I’m talking about. Hey you can put any match in your dream world you want I could care less. Sean plays at a different club than I do and he said that the 4.5 guys at his club destroy him.

But let me guess that doesn’t mean anything right? Just because Sean gets destroyed by them and he beat MEP means nothing when it comes to MEP playing them. Lol Hey whatever I’m sure MEP will be dominating the 5.0 league within a month or two.
Strawman. Based on a 14-1 record, it seems likely MEP will get bumped to 5.0 next year. That means he'll be at the bottom of 5.0 which means it's highly unlikely he'll be dominating anyone in the near future. Same as if I somehow made it to 5.0: I'd be getting my clock cleaned.

UTRs?
 

Raul_SJ

G.O.A.T.
Sean seems a lot closer to 4.5 so he has better perspective but I don't believe that a bottom 4.5 would crush Sean.

Again we circle back to this mysterious "4.5" league which may not be 4.5 at all which means we're all not on the same page.
Am assuming that Ian is classifying Sean as an official 4.5 (if he has an official USTA rating) or the equivalent of a USTA 4.5 since the video is titled "4.5 NTRP play". That makes sense as Sean is clearly competitive with MEP who has an official USTA rating... The indoor league Sean plays looks to be much stronger than USTA so his 4.0 rating in that non USTA league there is irrelevant.
 

GuyClinch

Legend
I think some are underestimating the differences between playing on a fast indoor court versus a slower outdoor court in the elements. This is why GSG is in a no win situation. Not only does he have very limited experience playing indoors but he's playing against players who have studied all of his matches. I also think some are underestimating the quality of GSG's opponents on Trolls channel.
I don't think he has played all the best guys from that channel.. I don't think he would beat that doctor guy, two handed forehand guy, right lefty guy or wannabe pro. So I don't think that is the problem...

But sure - It's really rough on GSG though to expect him to beat guys that have dissected his game and spent weeks studying it - bringing in players to replicate it - and who have been getting coaching.. Throw in the fast service.. Outside of like the top two guys on his channel I'd hope Ian could set up most of them for failure with all he effort that has gone into it.. i think ET deserves some credit for not going easy on Ben for drama FWIW..

As far as getting bumped up goes - USTA looks at scores not just wins losses. Thats why you can go 14-1 and not get bumped. Grinding out wins isn't the same as blowing people off the court.. If you blow someone away who is blowing other people away - you can get bumped.
 
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