MEP vs ET Players - Original TT Epic

Who wins?

  • Ian to dish out bagel and a stick

    Votes: 9 9.1%
  • Ian Wins

    Votes: 43 43.4%
  • Ian just manages to win

    Votes: 22 22.2%
  • Green shirt teaches Ian a lesson

    Votes: 6 6.1%
  • Green shirt wins

    Votes: 13 13.1%
  • Green shirt shocks the tennis world

    Votes: 6 6.1%

  • Total voters
    99
  • Poll closed .
This mellow Topher announcer seems to have the right mental attitude and he is the next MEP opponent. We do not expect to see him whining and screaming like Sean.
Topher admitted that he was getting great first-person intel watching MEP v Sean because he'll have to face the same thing.

I wouldn't come down too hard on Sean: I do the same thing in my matches occasionally but I'm not being filmed or mic'd up. It's rare to play someone who never does that.
 
The other analogy is Cam Williams over at Tennis Talk: he comments on match that he watches live on tennistv. I love his enthusiasm; he's got more sayings than Robby Krieger [he of the "reaction time of a mongoose on amphetamines" fame]. But he can't show it for copyright reasons [if he tried, the bots would shut him down in minutes]. But there are always doofi [plural of doofus] who complain bitterly "just show the match and stop talking".

Dude, if you want to watch the match, pay the $ to tennistv and stop complaining.
Cam Williams is the man im watching him right now for the WTA final in Madrid he's great!
 
Cam Williams is the man im watching him right now for the WTA final in Madrid he's great!
I'm not sure how I stumbled on his channel but now I'm hooked. He's so passionate, jumping out of his chair, pumping his fist, screaming "bang bang!", etc.

I remember "watching" the Djokovic v Federer final from 2019 being described by O'Shannessey and whoever his broadcast partner was and it was still gripping even though I couldn't see it.

Cam makes you feel like you're courtside.
 
I'm not sure how I stumbled on his channel but now I'm hooked. He's so passionate, jumping out of his chair, pumping his fist, screaming "bang bang!", etc.

I remember "watching" the Djokovic v Federer final from 2019 being described by O'Shannessey and whoever his broadcast partner was and it was still gripping even though I couldn't see it.

Cam makes you feel like you're courtside.
Personally I enjoy the "double bang bang!!!!!" it's great. I actually watch the match on TV on mute and then have cam as the commentator for me it makes it so good
 
Personally I enjoy the "double bang bang!!!!!" it's great. I actually watch the match on TV on mute and then have cam as the commentator for me it makes it so good
"The lob goes up...X hits an OH...it's a winner! Bang! Get that outta my face!"

"That's what champions do!"

"Shotmakers make shots."

"I like this format because I can say whatever the f#!$ I want."
 
"The lob goes up...X hits an OH...it's a winner! Bang! Get that outta my face!"

"That's what champions do!"

"Shotmakers make shots."

"I like this format because I can say whatever the f#!$ I want."
He's after staying up until 04:30am his time just to commentate on that final and said he has work later.....the guy is committed!

Get that outta my face is classic...going to say that to an opponent some day!
 

travlerajm

G.O.A.T.
At the time of that post Sean was leading, but he ran out of gas and blew it at the end of the 2nd set, but was very close to winning in two. He was close to pulling it out and he is a 4.0 level player.
As they say, close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades. And usta ratings.
 

Jack the Hack

Hall of Fame
Agreed, but here is MEP playing a very even match with a 4.5
This puts his level at 4.5
I just want to point out that Orange Shirt Guy in this video is @TennisTroll, who played college tennis at a mid-major and has had a 5.0 rating for several years. My understanding from past posts is that he's tried unsuccessfully to appeal down to 4.5 before, but keeps getting denied. I think he wins around 50% of his USTA League matches in 5.0, but he can probably speak for himself if he chooses to.

That video is the one that started the MEP (@GSG) phenomenon. It showed that a 4.5 guy with unconventional strokes, but good athlecticism, mental toughness, and consistency can hang with an average 5.0 with a traditional game. Basically, it proved that it's not how pretty your strokes are if you can keep the ball coming back in the court over and over.

Internet keyboard warriors took tons of potshots at Ben's game, saying he's not a 4.5. But the bottom line is that he's had repeated winning seasons at 4.5 in at least two Sections (Georgia and I believe Virginia) and has won 4.5 tournaments. His rating is earned.

Are there 4.5 rated players, or even 4.0 players that could beat him? Of course! I think he would totally admit that. There are even matches on the Tennis Troll channel where he loses. And in this thread, Ben talked about how he lost a couple singles matches at the recent state tournament to high 4.5 level players. That isn't the point. The point is that you can win ugly at 4.5 and Ben's done it repeatedly. Criticisms be damned, it's a valid playstyle that a lot of people can't handle.

Ian got into the MEP game by doing an analysis of the Tennis Troll video and basically saying the same thing that I just wrote. I think it's cool that he was willing to back his talk up by playing Ben, and that Ben was willing to travel up to Milwaukie to play numerous ET guys. He's a competitor and willing to put himself out there, which I respect.
 

travlerajm

G.O.A.T.
I just want to point out that Orange Shirt Guy in this video is @TennisTroll, who played college tennis at a mid-major and has had a 5.0 rating for several years. My understanding from past posts is that he's tried unsuccessfully to appeal down to 4.5 before, but keeps getting denied. I think he wins around 50% of his USTA League matches in 5.0, but he can probably speak for himself if he chooses to.

That video is the one that started the MEP (@GSG) phenomenon. It showed that a 4.5 guy with unconventional strokes, but good athlecticism, mental toughness, and consistency can hang with an average 5.0 with a traditional game. Basically, it proved that it's not how pretty your strokes are if you can keep the ball coming back in the court over and over.

Internet keyboard warriors took tons of potshots at Ben's game, saying he's not a 4.5. But the bottom line is that he's had repeated winning seasons at 4.5 in at least two Sections (Georgia and I believe Virginia) and has won 4.5 tournaments. His rating is earned.

Are there 4.5 rated players, or even 4.0 players that could beat him? Of course! I think he would totally admit that. There are even matches on the Tennis Troll channel where he loses. And in this thread, Ben talked about how he lost a couple singles matches at the recent state tournament to high 4.5 level players. That isn't the point. The point is that you can win ugly at 4.5 and Ben's done it repeatedly. Criticisms be damned, it's a valid playstyle that a lot of people can't handle.

Ian got into the MEP game by doing an analysis of the Tennis Troll video and basically saying the same thing what I just wrote. I think it's cool that he was willing to back his talk up by playing Ben, and that Ben was willing to travel up to Milwaukie to play numerous ET guys. He's a competitor and willing to put himself out there, which I respect.
Well said.
 

GuyClinch

Legend
I just want to point out that Orange Shirt Guy in this video is @TennisTroll, who played college tennis at a mid-major and has had a 5.0 rating for several years. My understanding from past posts is that he's tried unsuccessfully to appeal down to 4.5 before, but keeps getting denied. I think he wins around 50% of his USTA League matches in 5.0, but he can probably speak for himself if he chooses to.
Does everyone who beats MEP get bumped up to 5.0? Is Boss of Atlanta now 5.0? Maybe if tennis troll had released that video 7 months ago - we would be seeing that guy play Ian.. Since Boss of Atlanta beat him 6-1, 6-1 is he like a 5.5 now? Just asking..
 
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GSG

Rookie
Does everyone who beats MEP get bumped up to 5.0? Is Boss of Atlanta now 5.0? Maybe if tennis troll had released that video 7 months ago - we would be seeing that guy play Ian.. Since Boss of Atlanta beat him 6-1, 6-1 is he like a 5.5 now? Just asking..
BoA successfully appealed down from 5.0 at the end of 2019, then ratings didn't change at the end of 2020. If he's not bumped to 5.0 again soon I'd be surprised based on his 2020 results.
 

chetrbox

Rookie
Internet keyboard warriors took tons of potshots at Ben's game, saying he's not a 4.5. But the bottom line is that he's had repeated winning seasons at 4.5 in at least two Sections (Georgia and I believe Virginia) and has won 4.5 tournaments. His rating is earned.
While Ben is undoubtedly mentally tough[1] and a good strategic player (and I'm not even sure why people are arguing about his rating - it's a 4.5C i.e confirmed/computer rating not a self-rate), I have to wonder if the mental toughness of a pusher/bunter is in any way remarkable. To me, mental toughness is about not letting the match situation affect your strokes, i.e, swinging without getting tight. But pushers are already muscling the ball more as opposed to swinging, so getting tight in the body in tense match situations doesn't affect them as much as people with full swings.

[1] basing this on something he said about army/marine training where mission is more important than feelings
 

Raul_SJ

G.O.A.T.
I wouldn't come down too hard on Sean: I do the same thing in my matches occasionally but I'm not being filmed or mic'd up. It's rare to play someone who never does that.
Okay Sean can be mad at himself and scream all he wants about being out of breath snd "exhausted". We will cut him slack

But Sean went over the line by calling the MEP transition to indoors a "bullsh!t excuse". Obviously it is a huge factor as MEP said himself.

Also, Sean is not able to wrap his head around the fact that a non USTA 4.5 league could be on a higher level than a USTA 4.5 league.

But Sean is babbling on about how his private league 4.5 would destroy MEP and insinuating that MEP is not a USTA 4.5.

MEP is a strong USTA 4.5 as his 14-1 record attests. There is no dispute on this.

4.5 in our clubs would destroy me. Again, I wish I knew who you were. I’ve played them for fun. They eat my serve for lunch. They dictate every point. I’m not taking anything away from Ben, I just think this court talk excuse is bs. A 4.5 is a 4.5 and would have no problem destroying me on any surface, anywhere, anytime
 

heninfan99

Talk Tennis Guru
The other analogy is Cam Williams over at Tennis Talk: I love his enthusiasm; he's got more sayings than Robby Krieger [he of the "reaction time of a mongoose on amphetamines" fame]. But he can't show it for copyright reasons [if he tried, the bots would shut him down in minutes]. But there are always doofi [plural of doofus] who complain bitterly "just show the match and stop talking".

Dude, if you want to watch the match, pay the $ to tennistv and stop complaining.
 
Okay Sean can be mad at himself and scream all he wants about being out of breath snd "exhausted". We will cut him slack

But Sean went over the line by calling the MEP transition to indoors a "bullsh!t excuse". Obviously it is a huge factor as MEP said himself.

Also, Sean is not able to wrap his head around the fact that a non USTA 4.5 league could be on a higher level than a USTA 4.5 league.

But Sean is babbling on about how his private league 4.5 would destroy MEP and insinuating that MEP is not a USTA 4.5.

MEP is a strong USTA 4.5 as his 14-1 record attests. There is no dispute on this.
Yeah, the line about "a 4.5 is a 4.5" implies that all 4.5s are alike in skills, which is not at all correct. I don't think a weak 4.5 will do nearly as well vs Sean than a strong 4.5.

Then again, as @jmnk demonstrated, this league calls anyone a 4.5 who isn't currently playing college tennis. That could mean 5.0 & 5.5. If so, yes, those guys would crush Sean and any 4.5, strong or otherwise.

We could at least compare apples to apples if we knew the UTR of these club "4.5s".
 

zipplock

Hall of Fame
Does everyone who beats MEP get bumped up to 5.0? Is Boss of Atlanta now 5.0? Maybe if tennis troll had released that video 7 months ago - we would be seeing that guy play Ian.. Since Boss of Atlanta beat him 6-1, 6-1 is he like a 5.5 now? Just asking..
Do you know how the NTRP system works?
 
Sorry guys slightly off topic here (I'm not based in USA) but I often go there on business and play tennis anyway is it possible to search by name on some site to check a players NTRP?
 

Jack the Hack

Hall of Fame
Sorry guys slightly off topic here (I'm not based in USA) but I often go there on business and play tennis anyway is it possible to search by name on some site to check a players NTRP?
To look up a player's official NTRP rating, you go to the following link and input their name into the "Find NTRP Rating Info" in the search box:

https://tennislink.usta.com/Leagues/Common/default.aspx

Tennis Record .com may import the NTRP rating from the USTA, but their dynamic rating estimate can be wildly off from reality.

If the official TennisLink site shows no rating for a player, it means they probably have an expired rating and membership, or they don't play USTA League or tournaments.

On that same TennisLink page, if you search a name in the "Stats and Standings" section and set the filters to show all years, you can also find a complete history of all official USTA League and tournament matches a person has played, which is useful in seeing how they might have progressed or regressed in ratings over the years, which can give you an idea about their skillset and experience a bit.
 
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70sStrokes

New User
It's a long time back and I don't remember the video titles but Top Tennis said something about how their experience in playing tennis at or close to the highest level (Simon played futures and Alex in the ATP) put them in a better position to teach students and Ian took offense to that.
Steve Kerr coach of the Warriors once said that the reason great players were not good coaches is that great players skipped steps. Jordon, Bird, etc went 1,4,6,9,10 so they are unable to explain steps 2,3,5,7,8 because they bypassed them. The same probably goes for some good great tennis players.
 
Steve Kerr coach of the Warriors once said that the reason great players were not good coaches is that great players skipped steps. Jordon, Bird, etc went 1,4,6,9,10 so they are unable to explain steps 2,3,5,7,8 because they bypassed them. The same probably goes for some good great tennis players.
Again, that doesn't really work when comparing Ian with Top Tennis guys because by pro standards, neither Alex nor Simon are amazing players. If we're going to say Alex or Simon are too talented to teach tennis, that's some other logic universe that I do not understand.
 

GuyClinch

Legend
Steve Kerr coach of the Warriors once said that the reason great players were not good coaches is that great players skipped steps. Jordon, Bird, etc went 1,4,6,9,10 so they are unable to explain steps 2,3,5,7,8 because they bypassed them. The same probably goes for some good great tennis players.
Steve Kerr seems to be kinda a moron - so there is that.. Steve Nash (as a coach) was pretty damn good - and he is doing fine on a team stocked with a-holes. Hell you could probably break one of Nash legs and he could still dribble around Kerr.
 

GuyClinch

Legend
While Ben is undoubtedly mentally tough[1] and a good strategic player (and I'm not even sure why people are arguing about his rating - it's a 4.5C i.e confirmed/computer rating not a self-rate), I have to wonder if the mental toughness of a pusher/bunter is in any way remarkable. To me, mental toughness is about not letting the match situation affect your strokes, i.e, swinging without getting tight. But pushers are already muscling the ball more as opposed to swinging, so getting tight in the body in tense match situations doesn't affect them as much as people with full swings.

[1] basing this on something he said about army/marine training where mission is more important than feelings
True. Since pushers don't have any "A game" attacking type shots - they don't have to worry as much about a "down" day. They are like the opposite of someone like Dustin Brown.. Who can beat anyone when hot - but can also lose to pretty mediocre pros.
 

GuyClinch

Legend
Okay Sean can be mad at himself and scream all he wants about being out of breath snd "exhausted". We will cut him slack

But Sean went over the line by calling the MEP transition to indoors a "bullsh!t excuse". Obviously it is a huge factor as MEP said himself.

Also, Sean is not able to wrap his head around the fact that a non USTA 4.5 league could be on a higher level than a USTA 4.5 league.

But Sean is babbling on about how his private league 4.5 would destroy MEP and insinuating that MEP is not a USTA 4.5.

MEP is a strong USTA 4.5 as his 14-1 record attests. There is no dispute on this.
4.5s don't usually lose sets to 4.0s. You might disagree with the guy but giving his opinion is hardly crossing any line. Ratings are dynamic maybe if MEP had to play indoors he wouldn't be rated as high. This is hardly controversial - many players are better on one surface then another.
 

FiddlerDog

Semi-Pro
Although I doubt the whiners make up a significant part of the viewership.
As MEP said, it is 10%.
The Youtube comments are overwhelmingly positive, and most everyone is loving this series.

IMO, it wasn't the physical part of the match that caused him to hyperventilate; it was nerves and tension.
Correct. Sean lost his breath on the first point, and did not regain it until the 3rd set. It was not fatigue.
I have experienced that at the start of a tournament, but it goes away within a few points. It was fascinating that it lasted as long as it did.

I like Sean, and he's invested a lot into his game, but I kind of felt bad for him out there.
I don't think it affected his strokes except he started pushing his serves in the 3rd set.
I wonder if he is one of those chronic headcases who is always yelling at himself or if it was an isolated event due to the very public nature of this match.
Knowing 20k people are going to be dissecting your match can probably mess with your head. More people watched this match than a typical ATP Grand Slam match.
 

FiddlerDog

Semi-Pro
BoA successfully appealed down from 5.0 at the end of 2019, then ratings didn't change at the end of 2020. If he's not bumped to 5.0 again soon I'd be surprised based on his 2020 results.
Surprised this Boss of Atlanta guy got bumped to 5.0
He does not seem on the same level as Mark Sansait who is 4.5

But, BofA at 4.5 to 5.0 is yet more evidence that 3.0 to 4.0 players who are focusing on pronation, ISR, and other techo-jargon are totally missing the point of what makes a good tennis player.

 
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As MEP said, it is 10%.
The Youtube comments are overwhelmingly positive, and most everyone is loving this series.



Correct. Sean lost his breath on the first point, and did not regain it until the 3rd set. It was not fatigue.
I have experienced that at the start of a tournament, but it goes away within a few points. It was fascinating that it lasted as long as it did.

I like Sean, and he's invested a lot into his game, but I kind of felt bad for him out there.
I don't think it affected his strokes except he started pushing his serves in the 3rd set.
He commented during the match not to give away points with DFs. His logic was that MEP's returns couldn't hurt him and that sounded correct to me. So he chose to hit them more conservatively.

I wonder if he is one of those chronic headcases who is always yelling at himself or if it was an isolated event due to the very public nature of this match.
Knowing 20k people are going to be dissecting your match can probably mess with your head. More people watched this match than a typical ATP Grand Slam match.
To be fair to Sean, he wasn't "always yelling at himself", although it increased in the latter half. His body language was poor.

However, I'm positive I do the same thing from time to time and that's with no reporting of the scores or video or people analyzing all of my myriad mistakes. So I'd give him the benefit of the doubt.
 

chazz

Rookie
Sean went in with the wrong attitude. He should have portrayed himself as the underdog and said he looked forward to the challenge of playing GSG who has a winning record in usta matches in an area known for quality tennis players. He should have been trying to take the pressure off himself. Easier said than done but he needed a much more positive attitude. He acted like it's so demeaning to lose to GSG.
 
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