MEP vs ET Players - Original TT Epic

Who wins?

  • Ian to dish out bagel and a stick

    Votes: 9 9.1%
  • Ian Wins

    Votes: 43 43.4%
  • Ian just manages to win

    Votes: 22 22.2%
  • Green shirt teaches Ian a lesson

    Votes: 6 6.1%
  • Green shirt wins

    Votes: 13 13.1%
  • Green shirt shocks the tennis world

    Votes: 6 6.1%

  • Total voters
    99
  • Poll closed .

AnyPUG

Professional
What's "A" mean? I know what it means for posters here 8-B ... but my last USTA it was just 4.0, 4.5
Appealed Rating (A): A player receives an Appealed Rating when they are granted a request to play at a higher or lower level of play. Types of appeals include: medical appeals, automatic appeals, and committee reviewed appeals.
Computer Rating (C): A Computer Rating, also known as a Year End rating, refers to a player’s rating generated by their participation in USTA League during the course of a year.
Self Rating (S): A Self Rating is an NTRP entry-level rating generated upon a new player or a player re-entering the USTA League.
 

Rubens

Hall of Fame
Regarding MDs' mental toughness.
I'd say physicians face a lot of the same psychological challenges in their training as tennis players do in their matches. Most notably dealing with failure (mistakes, negative feedback) and moving forward nonetheless, especially in residency training, where you are there to learn, yet you get crapped on by supervisors for your mistakes, so failures are inevitable along the way. Each time it happens, it can ruin your mood and performance for the rest of the day/week, but you have to keep performing, just like being down a break and not giving up the set.
Creds: I play a doctor on ttw.
 

ByeByePoly

G.O.A.T.
Appealed Rating (A): A player receives an Appealed Rating when they are granted a request to play at a higher or lower level of play. Types of appeals include: medical appeals, automatic appeals, and committee reviewed appeals.
Computer Rating (C): A Computer Rating, also known as a Year End rating, refers to a player’s rating generated by their participation in USTA League during the course of a year.
Self Rating (S): A Self Rating is an NTRP entry-level rating generated upon a new player or a player re-entering the USTA League.
Is there a (H)amstrings?
 

ChaelAZ

G.O.A.T.
Fixed the S rating for you.

Appealed Rating (A): A player receives an Appealed Rating when they are granted a request to play at a higher or lower level of play. Types of appeals include: medical appeals, automatic appeals, and committee reviewed appeals.
Computer Rating (C): A Computer Rating, also known as a Year End rating, refers to a player’s rating generated by their participation in USTA League during the course of a year.

Self Rating (S): A SANDBAGGER made up rating of a player re-entering or previously hidden from USTA Leagues in hopes of radically stacking a team to win Nationals and all its' glory.
 

Dartagnan64

G.O.A.T.
Regarding MDs' mental toughness.
I'd say physicians face a lot of the same psychological challenges in their training as tennis players do in their matches. Most notably dealing with failure (mistakes, negative feedback) and moving forward nonetheless, especially in residency training, where you are there to learn, yet you get crapped on by supervisors for your mistakes, so failures are inevitable along the way. Each time it happens, it can ruin your mood and performance for the rest of the day/week, but you have to keep performing, just like being down a break and not giving up the set.
Creds: I play a doctor on ttw.
Something still to be said about shame based learning. You tend to only make a mistake once.

That being said I'm not sure a tennis player has ever experienced the mental challenge of being woken at 3 am to a code blue pager and having to go from dead sleep to completely "on point" in seconds. Or had to deal with a life or death decision process on your 50th hour of work with less than 2 hours sleep under your belt. Or had to sit in the room with the family of a 30 year old mother of 2 as you tell them that there is nothing more you can do to help her. I think the psychological challenges a training doctor faces far exceed many of those faced by tennis players. And as a doctor we never have carte blanche to blow up at a nurse or colleague or patient if things aren't going our way.

I think there is a lot about empathy, fortitude, persistence, etc that can be learned through a medical education that would help a tennis player. I'm not sure anything I've learned from tennis has made me a better doctor.
 

AnyPUG

Professional
Okay so based on this victory does anyone fancy throwing out some scores for the next two matches? Scott (2nd match of the day) and then the Ian match (following day)
Back in September, my prediction was "close to 6-1 6-1" for Ian. And I still think it's going to be closer to 6-1 6-1 for Ian than any other service breaks equivalent (2 breaks per set).
Ian beat Topher 6-1 6-0 around 6 months ago though Topher had a bad day and has since improved.
Scott (3rd match) plays at a higher level than Ian, so Scott is likely to do better than Ian.
( It's nothing to take away from MEP, he is terrific - just the depth of tennis background of Scott and Ian is a different 'ball game')

 
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dman72

Hall of Fame
Okay so based on this victory does anyone fancy throwing out some scores for the next two matches? Scott (2nd match of the day) and then the Ian match (following day)
I see Ian winning in straights 3 and 3 or something. If he actually played Ben after all these matches, seeing what Topher did to beat Ben, and Ben having to be losing something physically after these tough matches, can't see Ian losing. Ian's net game is strong and he's had plenty of video viewing to dissect Ben's game.
 

ChaelAZ

G.O.A.T.
Okay so based on this victory does anyone fancy throwing out some scores for the next two matches? Scott (2nd match of the day) and then the Ian match (following day)

Now that some facotrs of scheduling and court adjustment are out there, I think Scott will win pretty handily, and Ian will win in average fashion. I wouldn't venture a scoreline on either though. Scott seems more consistent and well-rounded than Ian overall, so that is my rationale. And that is not taking anything away from Ben's game or ratings, as others seems to like to consistently do. Just feels like the match-up is heading that way.
 

curly_2350

New User
I'll be very surprised if Scott loses anymore than 3 and 3. For Ian I think the desire to play up the drama is very strong so he'll very likely tank a set before coming through in the end.
 

Rubens

Hall of Fame
I think the psychological challenges a training doctor faces far exceed many of those faced by tennis players.
Yea what I said was that training MDs face many of the same mental pressures as tennis pros, but of course they face many other challenges on top of that. And tennis pros would reply that it's the same the other way around. But if we talk about the total amount of stress overall, then of course MDs go through more.

And as a doctor we never have carte blanche to blow up at a nurse or colleague or patient if things aren't going our way.
No carte blanche, but it happens a lot in some specialties. Maybe not neuro.
 

ByeByePoly

G.O.A.T.
I don't know how to phrase it but I am talking about a slice push stroke - short swing imparts a little slice but not enough to really change the ball flight. The slice is more coincidental to the basic shot. it also features little shoulder turn - you essentially "poke" at the ball. Hit with a somewhat open face to gain net clearance. Frequently used by beginners. It's almost like a lazy volley.

This is not the same as your 'penetrating" slice that is hit with good pace but is somewhat flat - this is what a slice and dicer hits. Racquet face is barely open and contact and they use a lot of pace. Very low net clearance!

And it's not the same as pro style slice - the pros hit with massive wicked underspin far beyond what the old timers like Perry hit with. These shots don't have that much clearance (usually) either but they have a ton of underspin. Again if they have to much clearance the pace will push it out.

Then we have the "hacker" slice - lots of net clearance - not much underspin - relies on gravity to bring the ball down (as they use a lot of clearance). Its a shot that is very safe but not particularly troubling.. They cannot be hit terribly hard because you run into issues with going long. But you can close the face a little to poke at it if you get a shot coming to you with more zip.
My comments about my use of 1hbh slice in 4.5 singles competition ... 1hbh slice my main baseline neutral rally stroke, and constant c&c behind 1hbh slice.

FYI ... I would say I hit your 1hbh slicer dicer category ... low over the net, "enough" back spin and pace for my targeting purposes in 4.5 singles. Pace and big spin was never key elements for me ... low and to targets and very low UE was. To me ... 1hbh slice is a utility shot, not going for risk reward like a big fh, so unacceptable to make many errors off a utility shot. Probably should be one of the slice categories/buckets ... don't miss slice for you (best technique you can hit and still stay low UE. If that means moderate spin ... go with that.

So ... to me the 1hbh is a utility shot ... so my interest is purpose and result, not technique classification. That said ... I think the shoulder turn, hitting of closed stance is the building blocks to premium 1hbh slice, even at 4.5.

1hbh utility:
1) neutral rally ball
2) transition shot to get to net

I don't think the 1hbh slice in pro game has any relevance for 4.0-4.5 singles. I think someone posted the Agassi video in this thread where he said for baseline rally balls he only had two thoughts 1) as much spin as possible 2) as low and short as possible. To me that makes sense at the pro level ... takes a very quality shot to keep a pro from teeing off. Not so much in 4.5 singles ... keep it low, with reasonably low bounce from moderate back spin ... no 4.5 is going to do much with it. Agassi wouldn't have benefited from running Sampras around with good 1hbh slicing. Not so with a Topher vs Ben ... if Topher can hit rally 1hbh slice from corner to corner, from short sideline to sideline, from deep to deuce corner followed with cc drop shot ... that can be very effective in 4.5 singles.

I think it's the same with 4.5 1hbh slice and approach ... accurate and low will win you a lot more matches than obsessing on back spin imo. I also think great rf control along with good targeting wins points with 4.5 c&c. If you get the perfect ball you can hit short dtl and add some side spin tailing awayin the alley, maybe take almost all the pace off, that can work with many 4.5 opponents. That kind of thing would be useless (gimmick) in ATP matches.

I have become interested in technique since joining here, and actually some tips from @IowaGuy improved my 4 decade old 1hbh slice. But if I had to pick one stroke technique that mattered the least, it would be the 1hbh c&c. I have a friend that would have failed the "crap" test ... but didn't matter. He hit the bh slice dtl to where he wanted without missing, and was excellent covering the net.

I guess my point was "what works" at 4.5, and measuring based on purpose and result rather than technique. Just throwing that into the mix/discussion.
 

Jack the Hack

Hall of Fame
Just thinking of the gems the wannabe pro would be coming out with if he was handing a beating to someone from ET with the heat beating down from above
Wannabe Pro waxing poetic with midmatch advice/trash talk is always fun to behold, especially when he's still wearing his pajamas in a match posted online to millions. :laughing:

Regarding the heat in Hotlanta, I'd venture to guess that not even the locals enjoy playing mid-afternoon in July when its 105 degrees and 90 percent humidity with no breeze. But the Milwaukie boys that play in 70 degree indoor courts most of the year would definitely be suffering. Topher might need to use his medical skills!
 

AnyPUG

Professional
Something still to be said about shame based learning. You tend to only make a mistake once.

That being said I'm not sure a tennis player has ever experienced the mental challenge of being woken at 3 am to a code blue pager and having to go from dead sleep to completely "on point" in seconds. Or had to deal with a life or death decision process on your 50th hour of work with less than 2 hours sleep under your belt. Or had to sit in the room with the family of a 30 year old mother of 2 as you tell them that there is nothing more you can do to help her. I think the psychological challenges a training doctor faces far exceed many of those faced by tennis players. And as a doctor we never have carte blanche to blow up at a nurse or colleague or patient if things aren't going our way.

I think there is a lot about empathy, fortitude, persistence, etc that can be learned through a medical education that would help a tennis player. I'm not sure anything I've learned from tennis has made me a better doctor.
So medical degree is a fine foundation to build a 4.5 rec tennis game that TT folks would approve ?
 

GuyClinch

Legend
Well that tennis doctor guy in Atlanta that was on tennis trolls channel is pretty good - he is 4.5+ aka on the stronger side of 4.5. Topher is only 4.0. So not sure if being a doctor is key to being 4.5. But it looks promising.
 

GSG

Rookie
What was up with the wink before the final game ? When you said the next match was in 20 mins. Did you tank the final game to save some energy ? :-D
I think after the end of second set with Topher it was decided that the match with Scott was going to be pushed to later in the day. The wink was for the Production guys as a nod to the original schedule in which there were only 20 minutes left until I was going to play Scott.
 

celito

Professional
I think after the end of second set with Topher it was decided that the match with Scott was going to be pushed to later in the day. The wink was for the Production guys as a nod to the original schedule in which there were only 20 minutes left until I was going to play Scott.
Ah I see. Makes sense now. Would have been tough to play 20 mins later after 3.5 hour match.
 

GSG

Rookie
Well that tennis doctor guy in Atlanta that was on tennis trolls channel is pretty good - he is 4.5+ aka on the stronger side of 4.5. Topher is only 4.0. So not sure if being a doctor is key to being 4.5. But it looks promising.
Fun fact: Boss of Atlanta is also a Doctor (seriously)!
Clarification: I'm 90% sure that I remember Topher telling me he is currently in Med school. So he may not be a full-fledged MD as of yet.
Conclusion: Med School students are 4.0s, Doctors are 4.5s
 

pencilcheck

Hall of Fame
I think after the end of second set with Topher it was decided that the match with Scott was going to be pushed to later in the day. The wink was for the Production guys as a nod to the original schedule in which there were only 20 minutes left until I was going to play Scott.
Poor Scott, he was so eager to jump on the court and hit
 

S&V-not_dead_yet

Talk Tennis Guru
Fun fact: Boss of Atlanta is also a Doctor (seriously)!
Clarification: I'm 90% sure that I remember Topher telling me he is currently in Med school. So he may not be a full-fledged MD as of yet.
Conclusion: Med School students are 4.0s, Doctors are 4.5s
So if I took 1st Aid, I'm at least a 3.0?
 

AnyPUG

Professional
Fun fact: Boss of Atlanta is also a Doctor (seriously)!
Clarification: I'm 90% sure that I remember Topher telling me he is currently in Med school. So he may not be a full-fledged MD as of yet.
Conclusion: Med School students are 4.0s, Doctors are 4.5s
Further conclusion: Med school students study medicine, Doctors practice ( I mean practice their shots on a tennis court)
 

FiddlerDog

Professional
But his body language and demeanor after the match was something I have seen many times before from people who were not in a happy place after a match.
3.5 players tend to be grossly ignorant of real tennis, and are overly focused on technique and stroke theory.
Have you played a topspin hitting 3.5 recently? I would love to know their reactions, in particular.

How many years did you play at 3.0, 3.5, and 4.0, respectively?
 

FiddlerDog

Professional
I don't think getting stuck is a failure at all - my point is that using hacker technique won't allow you to progress to your true "natural" level..
I know a lot of overhitting error machine 3.5's who have been 3.5 for 20 years.
Tons of double faults, tons of balls hit 6 feet long.
Maybe their true potential is MEP style at 4.5 ?
 

S&V-not_dead_yet

Talk Tennis Guru
Interesting, so a 4.0 beat a '4.5'?
Yes. Consider, though, that MEP is accustomed to playing outdoors in the elements on slower courts, which means those advantages dissipated on the fast, indoor, climate-controlled courts.

Given how much Topher expended to win the 3rd set, it doesn't seem to be a stretch to believe that he wouldn't have been able to do that on slower courts where MEP could run even more shots down.
 

Dolgopolov85

G.O.A.T.
I don't know how to phrase it but I am talking about a slice push stroke - short swing imparts a little slice but not enough to really change the ball flight. The slice is more coincidental to the basic shot. it also features little shoulder turn - you essentially "poke" at the ball. Hit with a somewhat open face to gain net clearance. Frequently used by beginners. It's almost like a lazy volley.
You can't get the ball to skid and land short of Topher with a push slice. If you're going to claim YOU can, then video or it didn't happen.
 

Dolgopolov85

G.O.A.T.
I watch Sean and Topher struggle with these "modest slice" shots and it's because, even if they are not "cutting and penetrating", they are still potentially difficult to deal with, especially when you add in a lot of lateral movement/stretching and having to get lower than normal. So I wouldn't call them "garbage" because of the effect they have on the opponent.
The key is how low GSG is able to keep it (contrary to GuyCinch's claims). Only when he is hitting the slice from shoulder height or basically when the ball got big on him does it float. Otherwise it keeps low (and worth noting that his ability to return low balls is amazing). I don't care what technique GSG is using. Nobody is saying you have to MODEL GSG's technique. But the outcome he achieves is certainly worth emulating. As Ian put it in his "How MEP wins", GSG is trying to hit balls that are uncomfortable for the opponent. However you get there is still effective in a tournament.

Also, regarding POMO, he had a totally funky serve technique that would probably be less reliable than a 3.0's pancake in a tournament. So the analogy doesn't really apply when it comes to GSG. We know he is able to hold his own and against good players.
 
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