MEP vs ET Players - Original TT Epic

Who wins?

  • Ian to dish out bagel and a stick

    Votes: 9 9.1%
  • Ian Wins

    Votes: 43 43.4%
  • Ian just manages to win

    Votes: 22 22.2%
  • Green shirt teaches Ian a lesson

    Votes: 6 6.1%
  • Green shirt wins

    Votes: 13 13.1%
  • Green shirt shocks the tennis world

    Votes: 6 6.1%

  • Total voters
    99
  • Poll closed .

travlerajm

G.O.A.T.
Now the ET guys have a built in excuse: they are not used to playing outdoors, in the heat, slower court, travel etc. See, you can't cherry pick conditions and results, accept all the results and don't try and dismiss these recent results because it doesn't fit into your worldview. You somehow convinced yourself MEP is better than most ET players and now trying to justify MEP's losses, when MEP himself is taking the losses gracefully. Time to accept the results man.
You are reading way more into my post than what I wrote.
 
D

Deleted member 780836

Guest
Maybe MEP needs to add some lead tape to improve his tapping strokes like travlerajm?
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lol
Maybe MEP can comment on this topic more, but it didn't look like the weight of his racket affected him at all, he was playing like his usual self. It's obvious if a person is using too light a racket: spraying balls, unable to return fast ball, lack of control. I didn't see any of that in the matches. MEP prides himself on using off the shelf rackets and changes strings only when they break, so I would be surprised if he mentions the racket weight as a factor. And it's not like the ET guys hit hard, maybe only Mark Sansait, but he didn't play.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
Maybe MEP can comment on this topic more, but it didn't look like the weight of his racket affected him at all, he was playing like his usual self. It's obvious if a person is using too light a racket: spraying balls, unable to return fast ball, lack of control. I didn't see any of that in the matches. MEP prides himself on using off the shelf rackets and changes strings only when they break, so I would be surprised if he mentions the racket weight as a factor. And it's not like the ET guys hit hard, maybe only Mark Sansait, but he didn't play.
Scott did not hit hard????
 

jhick

Hall of Fame
I keep hearing people talking about fast indoor courts....the slowest hard courts in my area are indoors at the club I play at. Most of the outdoor courts are worn down by the weather and much faster because of it. I guess the ET "facility" is particularly slick from all the the talk about it, but the assumption that indoor courts are faster than outdoor courts in Atlanta is strange to me. Maybe in the first 2 years after they are resurfaced.
Indoor courts can range anywhere from slow to very fast. Not all are the same material, it depends on the grit, and also when it was last resurfaced (courts that have not been resurfaced in a long time tend to be faster due to the grit being worn down). Back In college in the 90's, I played on some non conventional surfaces that were lightning fast and played similar to a basketball gym floor. Our home court was more of a rubbery grippy surface that was actually on the slower side. I preferred the faster surfaces, but our home court allowed me to hit some wicked kick serves.
 
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Scott did not hit hard????
I think the right question in the context of that particular debate is whether he hit hard enough for racquet weight to be a factor. I think it's hard to judge without being on the receiving end of his shots, but he seemed to be careful not to go overboard with power and focus on placement and spin instead.
 

megamind

Legend
Somehow y'all find ways to consistently complain about the players

Scott wins 6-0 6-1

"bUt sCoTt dOeSn'T hIt HaRd"

Come on now.....

 

GuyClinch

Legend
Now the ET guys have a built in excuse: they are not used to playing outdoors, in the heat, slower court, travel etc. See, you can't cherry pick conditions and results, accept all the results and don't try and dismiss these recent results because it doesn't fit into your worldview. You somehow convinced yourself MEP is better than most ET players and now trying to justify MEP's losses, when MEP himself is taking the losses gracefully. Time to accept the results man.
This. Plus if they go to Atlanta they are playing all kinds of different guys - some of them who are very good - like two handed forehand , tennis troll etc. So the results will probably be all over the map if they did that..
 

GuyClinch

Legend
I keep hearing people talking about fast indoor courts....the slowest hard courts in my area are indoors at the club I play at. Most of the outdoor courts are worn down by the weather and much faster because of it. I guess the ET "facility" is particularly slick from all the the talk about it, but the assumption that indoor courts are faster than outdoor courts in Atlanta is strange to me. Maybe in the first 2 years after they are resurfaced.
Most of the courts it ATL are hard. Hard outdoor courts are very very fast. Usually the surface is super smooth cement.. Some courts have this rubbery stuff - both indoors and out that is slow. But that is more for fancy private courts and such. Never been to ATL but it doesn't strike me as a paradise with all super fancy courts.
 

AnyPUG

Professional
Somehow y'all find ways to consistently complain about the players
We wouldn't have complained if Scott actually hit the ball hard. If he did, we would have simply stated without complaining that he didn't have to hit the ball hard, it's unnecessary under the circumstances.
 

jhick

Hall of Fame
Hard outdoor courts are very very fast.
I would actually mostly disagree with that statement. I would consider most outdoor hard courts to be medium speed. Certainly not as fast as grass, or indoor courts with no grit that haven't been resurfaced in a long time, or all purpose fieldhouses with basketball like surfaces.

Maybe you should ask ET how their indoor surface compares to a typical outdoor hard court. I pretty much guarantee they will tell you it plays faster.
 
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mcs1970

Hall of Fame
I think your right they can’t face the fact that they were wrong about MEP. He is a very good player with a different style and I’m impressed on how successful he is with that style of play. But most solid 4.5 guys that I have watched can play like Scott did and they will take a crafty slicing player like MEP apart in short order.
MEP is also a solid 4.5. All we can go by his record despite you and some others here trying to pick apart who is a legit 4.5 or not based on your eye tests which really don’t mean much . One match here or there where he gets destroyed does not negate that.
 

ByeByePoly

G.O.A.T.
Can someone please summarize the scores that are already known?

TIA
Scared me with the TIA ... I thought this thread was giving you mild strokes.

Summary:
- Sean played a good two sets even though he was thoroughly exhausted after the first 4 points. He was hauled off in a straightjacket talking in tongues
- Topher hopped is way back from 5-2 dead in third set
- Scott brought a gun to a knife fight
- Ian ... don't know yet ... months of foreplay still in progress

Edit: Ian brought a gun also ... but smaller caliber than Scott
 
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Scared me with the TIA ... I thought this thread was giving you mild strokes.

Summary:
- Sean played a good two sets even though he was thoroughly exhausted after the first 4 points. He was hauled off in a straightjacket talking in tongues
- Topher hopped is way back from 5-2 dead in third set
- Scott brought a gun to a knife fight
- Ian ... don't know yet ... months of foreplay still in progress
I was just looking for scores... if I wanted commentary, I got almost 60 pages of it ;)
 

GuyClinch

Legend
I would actually mostly disagree with that statement. I would consider most outdoor hard courts to be medium speed. Certainly not as fast as grass, or indoor courts with no grit that haven't been resurfaced in a long time, or all purpose fieldhouses with basketball like surfaces.

Maybe you should ask ET how their indoor surface compares to a typical outdoor hard court. I pretty much guarantee they will tell you it plays faster.
Well agree %100 in that regard. Sure way slower then basketball courts or grass courts..

But indoor hard courts are not super slick compared to outdoor hard courts. And in the US and ATL I think almost all the courts are outdoor hard courts which are as fast - and often faster then hard indoor courts. So we aren't seeing the huge MEP disadvantage here..
 

tlm

G.O.A.T.
MEP is also a solid 4.5. All we can go by his record despite you and some others here trying to pick apart who is a legit 4.5 or not based on your eye tests which really don’t mean much . One match here or there where he gets destroyed does not negate that.
I agree his record makes him a 4.5, I just think that there is a lot of variance in levels in different parts of the country. I was surprised that Sean who is definitely a 4.0 level player actually had a chance at beating him, and Scott who I see as a 4.5 and not a 5.0 beat him easily that’s all.
 

chazz

Rookie
I've predicted before I knew about MEPs other matches in Milwaukee that he loses 6-0, 6-1 to Ian because of the matchup. With no sun or wind to worry about, Ian will have no trouble with overheads. If MEP loses a close one say 6-4, 7-5 or if it goes 3 sets I will be impressed. Scott is definitely a better all around player than Ian. He's got more of an all court game.
 

mcs1970

Hall of Fame
I agree his record makes him a 4.5, I just think that there is a lot of variance in levels in different parts of the country. I was surprised that Sean who is definitely a 4.0 level player actually had a chance at beating him, and Scott who I see as a 4.5 and not a 5.0 beat him easily that’s all.
No excuses or caveats needed for his losses or his wins. Folks don’t want to hear the excuses of what if GSG played the ET guys in his home conditions with plenty of rest. That is fair enough.

By the same token there is no need to make excuses and try to diminish his ratings either by saying there are variances. If you really want to take variances into account then let these guys play 5 matches in each one’s preferred conditions before jumping to any conclusions. You can’t pick and choose variances as you see fit.

Without all that all you can rely is on actual rankings and those rankings tell them everyone that GSG is a solid 4.5.
 

jmnk

Hall of Fame
It’s much simpler than that. MEP had never played on a fast slick surface before. He only knew slow gritty hardcourt. He learned to play the game with a superlight 270g Dick’s sporting goods special that worked ok in conditions where the court surface kills the momentum of the incoming ball.

But on the fast slick surface, his 270g tool that he was still using at the time didn’t have nearly enough mass against high 4.5 players, or even a high 4.0 player. Shots that would have felt comfortable to redirect with controlled depth on slow gritty court were overpowering him on the faster surface. You can say that he got surprised by that. As a result, he wasn’t able to showcase his usual high 4.5 level out there.

I’m pretty sure the matches and point patterns will look completely different in the rematch series, no matter how much time ET team prepares. I’m looking forward to seeing what happens, and I think GSG is too.
ahh, not so sure. If they played those matches outdoors in Atlanta I would still fully expect MEP to beat Sean, and to (maybe) beat Topher (but that wouldn't not be too different than the indoor match where MEP had two match points already), and lose to Scott.

The problem (and the blessing) with MEP style is that there's not much that can be done if things do not go well. Like all 7 sets (3, 3 and 2) looked exactly the same to me as far as MEP play - whether he was leading or behind the points looked the same. And opponent that has played tennis for years would realize that within first two games so I would not read much into 'ET folks had weeks of preparation' - I mean it's not like there are different tactics one needs to use depending on the score on anything. As others stated - if you are reasonably decent at the net - that's the play against MEP. If you are not but you are steady from the baseline - it's going to be a flip coin. If you can do neither for ~2hrs - you are going to lose.
 

ByeByePoly

G.O.A.T.
I think this is generally true. I play an aggressive style inside the baseline looking to close into the net when possible, and my favorite players to play were the consistent ones where I knew they couldn't hurt me off the ground, even though they could be a bit frustrating to play at times. My least favorite opponents are flat hard hitters that can hit winners from any part of the court.
Everyone has a style/player they preferred not to play. When the singles tournaments are in high humidity and heat ... sometimes it's not always about the chance of winning. At least against s&v player and the "go for it" player ... pain likely ended quicker win or lose. The one I didn't want to face was a good friend with what I would call a light-heavy fh. We were a close match ... and our matches were always long. That fh wasn't heavy enough to bother you at first ... but it hobbed up enough to take it's toll later in the match.

I agree on preferring the predictable players that didn't hurt you ... s&v rhythm.
 

tlm

G.O.A.T.
Well agree %100 in that regard. Sure way slower then basketball courts or grass courts..

But indoor hard courts are not super slick compared to outdoor hard courts. And in the US and ATL I think almost all the courts are outdoor hard courts which are as fast - and often faster then hard indoor courts. So we aren't seeing the huge MEP disadvantage here..
I play indoors for 5 months of the year and outdoors the rest and indoor courts are faster. Even though they hold the grit longer than outdoors because of not being exposed to the weather they play faster. The ball goes through the court quicker indoors and it does not bounce up as high. Attacking style players with big serves or guy’s that like to rush the net have an advantage inside.

I know this because some guys I play that like to serve big and hit big shots right away are much tougher inside compared to outside. Every fall when we first go indoors me and my hitting partner notice right away that we can both hit bigger shots indoors and they stay in more. There are some outdoor courts that are worn out that the ball won’t bounce up as much because of lack of grit but ball still goes slower outside.
 

GSG

Rookie
Maybe MEP can comment on this topic more, but it didn't look like the weight of his racket affected him at all, he was playing like his usual self. It's obvious if a person is using too light a racket: spraying balls, unable to return fast ball, lack of control. I didn't see any of that in the matches. MEP prides himself on using off the shelf rackets and changes strings only when they break, so I would be surprised if he mentions the racket weight as a factor. And it's not like the ET guys hit hard, maybe only Mark Sansait, but he didn't play.
To be honest, having played with a 270g racquet for most of the last decade, I was largely ignorant of the potential benefits of a heavier frame. I had always believed that there were things I could continue to improve upon before ever getting to the point where equipment was the limiting factor. Obviously that is still true to an extent, but after being told my long-time racquet had been "strung for the last time" I decided to pursue a change. Since the time I played the ET matches, I have switched to a 320g frame. While it's been an adjustment and it's still a work in progress, the early returns (so to speak) have been encouraging.
 

jhick

Hall of Fame
But indoor hard courts are not super slick compared to outdoor hard courts. And in the US and ATL I think almost all the courts are outdoor hard courts which are as fast - and often faster then hard indoor courts. So we aren't seeing the huge MEP disadvantage here..
You are making a false generalization about the speed of indoor courts. I'm guessing this is based on your experience. Have you played on a lot of different indoor court surfaces? I play over half the year indoors and some are slower, others are much faster. My experience with outdoor hardcourts is that generally the speed of the courts do not vary to the degree indoor surfaces do. But maybe instead of making assumptions about the speed of the courts, ask MEP/GSG himself and he'll tell you.
 

jhick

Hall of Fame
I play indoors for 5 months of the year and outdoors the rest and indoor courts are faster. Even though they hold the grit longer than outdoors because of not being exposed to the weather they play faster. The ball goes through the court quicker indoors and it does not bounce up as high. Attacking style players with big serves or guy’s that like to rush the net have an advantage inside.

I know this because some guys I play that like to serve big and hit big shots right away are much tougher inside compared to outside. Every fall when we first go indoors me and my hitting partner notice right away that we can both hit bigger shots indoors and they stay in more. There are some outdoor courts that are worn out that the ball won’t bounce up as much because of lack of grit but ball still goes slower outside.
Yeah this is definitely true. There is one guy in particular that I play that I've never lost to indoors, but only beaten 1 or 2 times outdoors in about 10 tries.
 

tlm

G.O.A.T.
Yeah this is definitely true. There is one guy in particular that I play that I've never lost to indoors, but only beaten 1 or 2 times outdoors in about 10 tries.
Yep the grinder style player has more advantage outside and the big hitting guy has the advantage inside.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
To be honest, having played with a 270g racquet for most of the last decade, I was largely ignorant of the potential benefits of a heavier frame. I had always believed that there were things I could continue to improve upon before ever getting to the point where equipment was the limiting factor. Obviously that is still true to an extent, but after being told my long-time racquet had been "strung for the last time" I decided to pursue a change. Since the time I played the ET matches, I have switched to a 320g frame. While it's been an adjustment and it's still a work in progress, the early returns (so to speak) have been encouraging.
Unstrung weight?
 

AnyPUG

Professional
I was surprised that Sean who is definitely a 4.0 level player actually had a chance at beating him.
I was actually surprised that the 3rd set score was 0-6 for Sean instead of 6-0, most of his shots and serves landed outside the line by a foot or two, they could have very easily bounced inside the court for winners.
 

AnyPUG

Professional
Well agree %100 in that regard. Sure way slower then basketball courts or grass courts..

But indoor hard courts are not super slick compared to outdoor hard courts. And in the US and ATL I think almost all the courts are outdoor hard courts which are as fast - and often faster then hard indoor courts. So we aren't seeing the huge MEP disadvantage here..
Do you know how many times the lobs hit the ceiling? Do you know how many times the players avoided high lobs because of the ceiling? Too many unknowns for blanket statements, but one thing is certain - most players who have played both indoor and outdoor agree they are different.
 

tlm

G.O.A.T.
Do you know how many times the lobs hit the ceiling? Do you know how many times the players avoided high lobs because of the ceiling? Too many unknowns for blanket statements, but one thing is certain - most players who have played both indoor and outdoor agree they are different.
They are definitely different and yes some indoor courts have low ceilings but most I have played on have high enough ceilings that don’t effect lobs. It is much easier to play inside than out as long as the lighting is good.

When I go indoors in the fall the first thing I notice is how much easier it is to serve, I can serve bigger and still get a high percentage in. Plus much easier to hit aggressive ground strokes and again the ball stays in much better than outdoors
 

zipplock

Hall of Fame
@GSG
Did ceiling height ever come into play, either a lob hitting the ceiling or you having to chose a different shot because of the ceiling height?

I ask because I have played on indoor courts where lobbing wasn't an option.
 
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GSG

Rookie
@GSG
Did ceiling height ever come into play, either a lob hitting the ceiling or you having to chose a different shot because of the ceiling height?

I ask because I have played on indoor courts where lobbing wasn't an option.
I hit the ceiling on a point in the match with Topher. Since I came within a point of beating him, obviously that means I would have won the match if we had played outdoors. ;)
 

ByeByePoly

G.O.A.T.
To be honest, having played with a 270g racquet for most of the last decade, I was largely ignorant of the potential benefits of a heavier frame. I had always believed that there were things I could continue to improve upon before ever getting to the point where equipment was the limiting factor. Obviously that is still true to an extent, but after being told my long-time racquet had been "strung for the last time" I decided to pursue a change. Since the time I played the ET matches, I have switched to a 320g frame. While it's been an adjustment and it's still a work in progress, the early returns (so to speak) have been encouraging.
My experience ... fwiw.

I played 30 years of 4.0 - 4.5 tournaments and USTA with a 10ish ounce racquet. Racquet weight was nothing I ever considered ... and never felt pushed around because of too light a racquet. Most of my friends, club members played with light racquets, ... maybe we just didn't know any better.

At age 55 ... played a ex-college player for 4 summer months. Hit a very heavy fh ... much heavier than Scott (in my estimation) for comparison. He hit a couple of balls with my racquet ... gave it back ... pronounced it "too light". He hit a 12+ oz old Fed Pro Staff strung like a board with Forten syn gut ... broke it usually every other match. That lead to racquet search ... demos. I already knew 12 oz was too much for me ... tried his racquet for long enough to know I would not like it for my game, particularly ts fh. No doubt that was a technique deficiency ... but fh wasn't going to change. Ended up with a 11.3 oz (320 grams) racquet ... definitely made a difference against his fh (I lost slower 8-B ) ... no longer felt racquet was getting pushed around.

So ... played against one guy in decades of tennis that ever passed any 10 oz threshold. But the important part is I much prefer the 11.3 oz racquet now even when hitting against pace that doesn't require it. I picked up the 2hbh post racquet change, and 12 oz would be fine with the 2hbh, but not the rest of my game.

So to me ... for most of us not playing against heavy play, it's a preference/timing thing. Many like a very head light racquet ... I like a little bit head light ... more toward balanced. Almost always if you pick up a very headlight racquet ... it will feel great, but that isn't the same as playing with it. Brother @travlerajm and @Shroud are our racquet scientist ... but be advised they have to attend meetings. 8-B
 
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PilotPete

Hall of Fame
Latest videos show Ian using his usual condescending tone of communication and trying to hold back smiles, suggests he probably won relatively easily.
 

AnyPUG

Professional
Latest videos show Ian using his usual condescending tone of communication and trying to hold back smiles, suggests he probably won relatively easily.
He is a youngish teaching pro with college playing experience, him winning over a rec player was ever a doubt? incredible... if MEP wins 2 games per set, consider that a huge overachievement!
 

PilotPete

Hall of Fame
He is a youngish teaching pro with college playing experience, him winning over a rec player was ever a doubt? incredible... if MEP wins 2 games per set, consider that a huge overachievement!
I dunno, watching him play, he's not that good. He teaches again and again about kinetic chain and looseness, but when it comes actual time to hit a FH in a real match, he's arming it often. I would expect a real 'teaching pro' to be at the level of Scott or Mark.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
He is a youngish teaching pro with college playing experience, him winning over a rec player was ever a doubt? incredible... if MEP wins 2 games per set, consider that a huge overachievement!
Not really. Teaching pros usually progress more into teaching others than playing, and with that also comes a change in mindset. Ian's income is not derived from playing competitively, nor does he have to prove anything after having played college tennis. So if he beat GSG as seems to be the consensus, I would consider it a good achievement.
 

jhick

Hall of Fame
Not really. Teaching pros usually progress more into teaching others than playing, and with that also comes a change in mindset. Ian's income is not derived from playing competitively, nor does he have to prove anything after having played college tennis. So if he beat GSG as seems to be the consensus, I would consider it a good achievement.
I don't agree that often with the mighty Sureshs but I agree with him here. I believe Ian is close to 40, hardly a young teaching pro right out of college and has mentioned that he hasn't played a lot of competitive tennis matches until recently and focused more on coaching.
 
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