MEP vs MEP clone !!!

Sometimes I think matchups can make a difference. A guy with a good kick serve, wicked slice backhand and good dropshots might give an WTA player or d1 player more trouble than someone who wins mostly by consistency and does not have a big serve or any big weapons.

I wouldn't say I have a huge serve for a guy, but in my experience when I've played against girls who were five star and blue chip juniors, they often have trouble returning my serve. It's just a different look than they're used to.
 
Sometimes I think matchups can make a difference. A guy with a good kick serve, wicked slice backhand and good dropshots might give an WTA player or d1 player more trouble than someone who wins mostly by consistency and does not have a big serve or any big weapons.
I don’t think it is a problem for WTA players as they practice against men all the time. We constantly have WTA players practice at our club against D1 college men or their coaches and I can tell you that they have zero problems with any matchups based on spin. We have a coach in his late-twenties (played ATP futures 7-8 years ago and college tennis) with a UTR in the mid-high 11s who plays often with WTA players with UTR in the 12s and he hangs with them, but always loses sets - he has heavy topspin, slice, big serve etc. and the WTA players hit flatter, but have no problems with his shots. The WTA players hit/serve very deep and precisely - they also move very well. Let’s not perpetuate stereotypes that matchups make up for differences of 1 or 2 in UTR or 0.5 in NTRP if the computer rating is based on a lot of recent high-level matches - they don’t.
 
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I don’t think it is a problem for WTA players as they practice against men all the time. We constantly have WTA players practice at our club against D1 college men or their coaches and I can tell you that they have zero problems with any matchups based on spin. We have a coach in his late-twenties (played ATP futures 7-8 years ago and college tennis) with a UTR in the mid-high 11s who plays often with WTA players with UTR in the 12s and he hangs with them, but always loses sets - he has heavy topspin, slice, big serve etc. and the WTA players hit flatter, but have no problems with his shots. The WTA players hit/serve very deep and precisely - they also move very well. Let’s not perpetuate stereotypes that matchups make up for differences of 1 or 2 in UTR or 0.5 in NTRP - they don’t.
I don't think WTA players will have difficulty, but some lower level d1 might.
btw, I saw a former d1 or d2 woman crush a 4.5 TW player a few years ago at the local park.

I think matchups only make a difference at the same level.
 
Just out of curiosity, I looked up a few UTRs, since I don't really have a good sense of what the numbers mean.
A ranked junior from Australia just came to play some matches in my area. He lost to a couple juniors I occasionally play doubles with. Aussie has a UTR of 10.

15.73 Djokovic
15.98 Nadal
15.68 Federer
15.69 Thiem
14 Rampras
12.88 Serena Williams
 
IMO, MEP actually plays very smart and within his game. He plays percentage tennis.
When he is pulled wide he often lobs and just gets it back instead of going for a low percentage passing shot.

Also, a high lob, deep lob outdoors often keeps him in the point at the 4.0/4.5 level. Sometimes the opponent lets it bounce or misses the overhead. At the 4.0/4.5 level, not many can put away or hit firm high backhand volleys.

How many 4.0 players do you know that can hit a hard, well-placed overhead if the lob is high (and/or deep)?
Not even all 4.5 players can consistently put high lobs away. At the 5.0 level, the defensive lob becomes a worse option because the overheads are much better. Even so, sometimes, a lob is the best option when you are not in position to hit a good passing shot.
This is exactly right. As someone who uses a lot of defensive lobs, I find that playing against 4.5 guys with weak overheads gives me bad defensive habits that don’t translate well when I play against better players who punish anything they have time to get underneath.
 
Is 4.5 vs 5s really interesting? Sounds like an one sided yawn to me.
He wins most of his matches at 4.5, so why not?
Also he never lost badly to anyone. I want to see it happening, I want to see if someone can make him not get to 99% of balls.:D
Can maxtennis make all this happen? I have doubts!
 
He wins most of his matches at 4.5, so why not?
Also he never lost badly to anyone. I want to see it happening, I want to see if someone can make him not get to 99% of balls.:D
Can maxtennis make all this happen? I have doubts!
I think the style matchup would favor max. Max is at his best when you give him time to create his own offense, so MEP’s defensive style would feed right into Max’s strength.
 
I understand Max is more likely to punish MEP’s no energy balls but it will still be very interesting to see it happening.
We’ve already tested Max against someone who plays mostly no-energy fh slices:
 
I've said it before, this is a guy that has taken up tennis as an adult not too long ago, is 4.5 and 7-1 winning record, yet everyone only ever posts (here and youtube) on how to beat him, but no one is posting how to be him...

Well nobody wants to be him... well except for traveljam ;)

In all seriousness, most people get together to hit, maybe some organized practice, maybe play some points. GSG is not very fun to hit with, just challenging to play with. So not a lot of people want to be him because for a large proportion of tennis players proficiency at "the tennis" is still more important than winning matches.
 
Well nobody wants to be him... well except for traveljam ;)

In all seriousness, most people get together to hit, maybe some organized practice, maybe play some points. GSG is not very fun to hit with, just challenging to play with. So not a lot of people want to be him because for a large proportion of tennis players proficiency at "the tennis" is still more important than winning matches.

True.
 
I've said it before, this is a guy that has taken up tennis as an adult not too long ago, is 4.5 and 7-1 winning record, yet everyone only ever posts (here and youtube) on how to beat him, but no one is posting how to be him...

I seriously think almost everyone(except low single-digit in 1000) would rather play like Fed and lose than play like MEP and win.
It's not good or bad, it's how people are wired or genetically made up.
 
He wins most of his matches at 4.5, so why not?

Have you seen the shot quality of 5.0s in the tennis troll channel? There's a reason why troll does not feature MEP against 5.0s - many big differentials between however good 4.5 and 5.0. We are not talking about a star 4.5 on the way to become a 5.0 - but someone who "struggles" against 4.5 though manages to eke out a W each time.
 
I seriously think almost everyone(except low single-digit in 1000) would rather play like Fed and lose than play like MEP and win.
It's not good or bad, it's how people are wired or genetically made up.
If you actually had a choice... the fact is, few people will win if they try to play like MEP. It’s all about where you are and how you evolve/progress/degrade. There’s absolutely no reason to try to ditch full strokes after watching MEP matches. With this recent match, the best part for John was when he actually went for bigger shots - he won 6-1. Even Ben mentioned that in after-match commentary, when opponent just started hitting winners past him every second shot.

Most errors by John where made either when bunting/rolling balls back and forth - finally, after number of shots; or positioning himself too far from the net and trying to volley from below the net. Some forced errors as well after being put in bad position by well-placed shots by MEP. Yet more glorious victory going through all that(y)
 
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I love how more than 50% of poasters in this forum have a game plan to play GSG :D
If you actually had a choice... the fact is, few people will win if they try to play like MEP. It’s all about where you are and how you evolve/progress/degrade. There’s absolutely no reason to try to ditch full strokes after watching MEP matches. With this recent match, the best part for John was when he actually went for bigger shots - he won 6-1. Even Ben mentioned that in after-match commentary, when opponent just started hitting winners past him every second shot.

Most errors by John where made either when bunting/rolling balls back and forth - finally, after number of shots; or positioning himself too far from the net and trying to volley from below the net. Some forced errors as well after being put in bad position by well-placed shots by MEP. Yet more glorious victory going through all that(y)

@Dragy is looking at Google Flights everyday to see when direct flights Moscow-Atlanta are up again!
 
With this recent match, the best part for John was when he actually went for bigger shots - he won 6-1.

I got a different impression tbh, with his bigger shots and serves, blue lost the first set. He changed his approach in the second set - slice returns and slower serves which gave him time to setup for countering what MEP was doing. (the words clone was inspired by his new strategy of both bh and fh slice returns and slower serves)
 
I've said it before, this is a guy that has taken up tennis as an adult not too long ago, is 4.5 and 7-1 winning record, yet everyone only ever posts (here and youtube) on how to beat him, but no one is posting how to be him...

Some of it boils down to needing to justify the $, time, energy, and practice spent on developing "correct" strokes: if I expended all of that and can't beat a guy who "just gets the ball back over", then maybe all of my effort was a waste.

Of course, I think that's incorrect thinking for various reasons:

- The opponent has a lot of strengths that aren't flashy and thus are under-rated [consistency, fitness, mental toughness, etc]
- Maybe he's a [significantly] better athlete than I
- The effort expended was to improve my game, not to beat opponent X; looked at in this way, I've succeeded. That doesn't mean I'm going to beat everyone I set my mind to
 
To those who say GSG would beat Max

Seriously? I've been mostly skimming this thread and missed that...

tenor.gif
 
@Dragy is looking at Google Flights everyday to see when direct flights Moscow-Atlanta are up again!
I’m not sure why you try to pull me into this. It’s obviously easy for me to be poasting from far away, however I humbly stayed within analyzing what guys actually did in a match to what results, not making up things. Would you suggest me to look up for flights to Adelaide if I commented Serena-Naomi match? Or immediately get on court after discussing 3.0 ladies clash?

I’m looking for flights to Montreal, QC, couldn’t visit my family and my 95yo grandma in freaking 2020. If it happens this year, I’ll make sure to look for some tennis meetups, that sounds great.
 
I’m not sure why you try to pull me into this. It’s obviously easy for me to be poasting from far away, however I humbly stayed within analyzing what guys actually did in a match to what results, not making up things. Would you suggest me to look up for flights to Adelaide if I commented Serena-Naomi match? Or immediately get on court after discussing 3.0 ladies clash?

I’m looking for flights to Montreal, QC, couldn’t visit my family and my 95yo grandma in freaking 2020. If it happens this year, I’ll make sure to look for some tennis meetups, that woods great.


It was a joke, I know the palace is not yours!
 
I will say that if @GSG and I ever play, the match will be on my racket and the result will be dependent on me.

I’ll be in complete control of the match and if I play well, I’ll win. If I don’t play well, I’ll lose. That’s just my style, regardless of who I play unless they’re obviously better than me like 1-2 UTR levels above me.

If you look at my singles UTR profile, I have some very up and down results against lower UTRs because I’m a streaky player. When I’m on, I’m really on. When I’m off, well, I miss a lot of balls lmao.
 
Very entertaining match good job @GSG, Blue Shirt Guy actually out MEP the MEP! That's like beating Nadal on clay!


lol. I mentioned something about that in the YT comments on I think part 2, saying that Internet posts always saying "...the way to beat MEP is..." or "I would beat MEP because...." is like all those professional commentators telling people how to beat Nadal on clay...but when faced with the reality of playing MEP, or those playing Nadal on clay...it is very different. And of course, then people said I was comparing MEP to Nadal and how ridiculous it is. FFS...

@GSG is a hoot, plays his own game, and probably is sick of all the discussion around it. But cheers Ben on allowing everyone be part of it.
 
lol. I mentioned something about that in the YT comments on I think part 2, saying that Internet posts always saying "...the way to beat MEP is..." or "I would beat MEP because...." is like all those professional commentators telling people how to beat Nadal on clay...but when faced with the reality of playing MEP, or those playing Nadal on clay...it is very different. And of course, then people said I was comparing MEP to Nadal and how ridiculous it is. FFS...

@GSG is a hoot, plays his own game, and probably is sick of all the discussion around it. But cheers Ben on allowing everyone be part of it.
Outlier styles tend to rise to higher heights than might be expected.
 
MEP actually plays very smart and within his game.

This should be the lesson people take away from his game and competing in what so many people think is above his level. If you watch his play, his racquet control, movement and placement of shots move opponents around and out of many strong offensive hitting positions to neutral or defensive shots only. Even John mentioned that after the match in the interview. And MEP is VERY comfortable in that game. For me, and watching others, I see too many over and under hit like crazy trying to adjust, playing outside our game. If players get better at watching strategy, mindset, and piont play over technique, they would understand just how impressive Ben plays.
 
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lol. I mentioned something about that in the YT comments on I think part 2, saying that Internet posts always saying "...the way to beat MEP is..." or "I would beat MEP because...." is like all those professional commentators telling people how to beat Nadal on clay...but when faced with the reality of playing MEP, or those playing Nadal on clay...it is very different.

It's called "hypothetical tennis" because most likely it will never happen. And people underestimate just how difficult it is to beat someone who makes very few errors because almost all of our opponents donate a lot of points [just as we do]. We certainly don't win because we hit a vast # of winners. At least I don't.

My proxy for how I'd do will be when Ian from Essential Tennis plays him since I think Ian and I have similar, net-centric styles. However, if I were to play MEP... :)
 
How well? MEP loses on a fairly regular basis to other 4.5s. Not close at all to 5.0 IMHO. He lost to a 50 year old man that was badly out of shape in one match. Lost to this John guy.. I mean he is a solid 4.5 - but not more then that.. It's very impressive that he can play with a 3.0/3.5 style at the 4.5 level. But he is not beating league ranked 5.0s. The 4.5s that won tennis trolls little tournament would dominate him. So would Ian if the match ever happened.

FWIW you can absolutely crush him without a great net game. The woman that beat him wasn't exactly a net wizard.. And almost all 5.0 men would dominate her. Again that's not disrespect to her - she has solid game no doubt. It's just the truth.
(1) NTRP 5.0 - 76 league wins and former Division 1 college tennis player (Atlanta) - YouTube

I'd give ya 10 to 1 odds if he ever plays this guy..haha.

Well in the sense as it might not "look" like 4.5 tennis but it beats 4.5 players all the way up to strong 4.5s borderline 5.0s. That well.
Did you read what I wrote? I never said he would beat 5.0s. I said his level is 8.37 UTR which is high 4.5/5.0 (see below) and 5.0s would have an easier time (winning) rather than 4.5s against him.
Playing close and not winning is also an indicator of level. That's how UTR works in the first place.
The 'woman that beat him' got baged second set no? She won in a match tie-break. There was no third set. I hardly call that a 'crush'.
Why would I take that bet? A 10-10.5 UTR against a 8.5? That's like Djokovic vs. some top D1 college kid 13 UTR. He would destroy him. Who would take that bet?

nRUJ8uS.png


https://www.tcr-nyc.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/UTR_Player_Range.pdf
 
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I will say that if @GSG and I ever play, the match will be on my racket and the result will be dependent on me.

I’ll be in complete control of the match and if I play well, I’ll win. If I don’t play well, I’ll lose. That’s just my style, regardless of who I play unless they’re obviously better than me like 1-2 UTR levels above me.

If you look at my singles UTR profile, I have some very up and down results against lower UTRs because I’m a streaky player. When I’m on, I’m really on. When I’m off, well, I miss a lot of balls lmao.

You are a solid NTRP 5.0 player bordering on 5.5, GSP is upper 4.5 based on his results.
Of course you should win statistically as you are 1.5 UTR above him.
You should win like 6-2 6-1.
2 UTR spread is a double bagel or bagel and a bread stick.
Could there be an upset? Sure, but unlikely.
 
I’ll be in complete control of the match and if I play well, I’ll win. If I don’t play well, I’ll lose. That’s just my style, regardless of who I play unless they’re obviously better than me like 1-2 UTR levels above me.
You see? The guy is way wiser than his supporters!
I still believe this is a very interesting match up and worth arranging. Max is an ‘ordinary’ 5.0 but we all know that MEP is an extraordinary 4.5!:D
 
I think Gregory Diamond vs GSG match would break the Internet.

Yea that would be like Hsieh Su-Wei vs Peng Shuai. Who would've thought that the closest rec approximation of two young female asian pros would be found in two white dudes in their mid-40s and mid-60s? Mind blown.
 
My proxy for how I'd do will be when Ian from Essential Tennis plays him since I think Ian and I have similar, net-centric styles. However, if I were to play MEP... :)

My proxy for how I'd do will be when one Djokovic from Serbia plays him since I think he and I have similar, hit the lineman centric styles. However, if Djokovic beats MEP I can claim moral victory.
 
I understand Max is more likely to punish MEP’s no energy balls but it will still be very interesting to see it happening.
It will not be interesting.

You won't see any cat and mouse game, or any long points. Or, MEP doing much.

Max's level is too much for him. Most shots will be out of MEP's timely reach, and MEP will screw up or pop the ball out.

Blue shirt did that with MEP a few times. It's not interesting at all.




What would be interesting is a match between those claiming 4.5 in this place and MEP. :)
 
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