Mesomorph or Endomorph

DavaiMarat

Professional
Hi Guys,

I'm 37 years old and for the last few years I've been stuck at 195-200 pounds. MY body doesn't seem to want to budge off that weight no matter how much I eat or even over eat or exercise. I'm 5'8 and athletic. I used my friend scale which does body fat% and it said I had 24% body fat. (Haha I'm quarter fat!), I know these things are highly inaccurate though.

I've played sports (soccer, tennis, hockey) for all my life.

Here's a clip of me playing tennis.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NztIaylMnM&context=C30fcf77ADOEgsToPDskKBY_4OCwtYvIijA-IsXvxo

From your eye fitness gurus am I a mesomorph or an endomorph? If I figure this out maybe I can start figuring out a strategy about how to lose weight. I'd like to be around 160lbs. Is this reasonable?

Cheers,

Mike
 
mesomorph, endomorph (and ectomorph) are somewhat archaic terms formerly used to relate body type to personality type. I wouldn't be too concerned with these obsolete labels.
 
Hi Guys,

I'm 37 years old and for the last few years I've been stuck at 195-200 pounds. MY body doesn't seem to want to budge off that weight no matter how much I eat or even over eat or exercise. I'm 5'8 and athletic. I used my friend scale which does body fat% and it said I had 24% body fat. (Haha I'm quarter fat!), I know these things are highly inaccurate though.

I've played sports (soccer, tennis, hockey) for all my life.

Here's a clip of me playing tennis.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NztIaylMnM&context=C30fcf77ADOEgsToPDskKBY_4OCwtYvIijA-IsXvxo

From your eye fitness gurus am I a mesomorph or an endomorph? If I figure this out maybe I can start figuring out a strategy about how to lose weight. I'd like to be around 160lbs. Is this reasonable?

Cheers,

Mike

You are too far away in the video to see detail but by proportion you look to be in pretty good shape.

A body fat of 24% is not bad but you might go a little lower if you like. Sounds as if you don't trust your body fat measurement's accuracy. I believe that the simpler measuring methods are less accurate especially if you have more muscle mass than the average person of your height. This information seems important for your goal since - if you have more muscle than you are estimating - 160lbs will be way too low a weight for you.

I was just watching Fit to Hit on Tennis Channel and they were discussing body fat measurements.

http://www.tennischannel.com/programs/EpisodeDetail.aspx?id=5803

They said that there is a "Bod POD" technique that is pretty accurate, the test cost around $40.

I believe that this was the technique on the show.

http://www.humanhealthspecialists.com/bodpod-body-fat-testing/

Added link to story on BOD POD http://articles.baltimoresun.com/20...101021_1_bod-pod-fat-percentage-body-scanners

Does anyone know anything about this test in an air-tight box? Another more accurate test was described but that costs $100-150.

(BTW, I believe that Danielle Dotzenrod measured about 19-22% BF in the various testing methods. ...........)

The are many ads showing 'cut' bodybuilder models especially before and after using some product. These 'cut' bodybuilders do not look very good to me. IMO if you look particularly at their cheeks they often look under fed and somewhat unhealthy.
 
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You look like a endo-mesomorph to me, but what do I know. If you want to get into this topic, which is rather archaic, there was a book puliblished in the 50s called "The Atlas of Men" where the 3 somatypes are extended to 88 mixed types, each named after an animal. You will find the cats (classical mesomorphs), birds of prey (ecto-mesomorphs) and several other animals familys. Kind of proto or pseudo-science (especially the psycho-babble bits), but very interesting if you can find a copy. With each type there is a chart that shows typical weight at various ages. Nealy all types get heavier with age, although the author does say that a guy can buck that trend by getting/staying in "fighting trim", but we all know how much work/dietary discipline that involves.

In the end though you are what you are. You like you move well for a 5'8" 195 pound guy.
 
Well your BMI is 30 (which would make you obese by definition), so I would go with endomorph.

I know. Isn't that crazy? Technically I should probably be hooked up to a respirator but I'm not hehe. I use to work in endocrine research where they threw up BMI all over the place but the probably with BMI it assumes everyone has a certain body-fat percentage to height ratio. That would make a lot of body builders really obese hehe.

I use to lift in college and do some weights in the gym occasionally but I'm built more like a rugby player then a tennis player.

I want to lose some mass to help my movement be it fat or even muscle. I got big bones too....sigh...got a lot of things working against me lol.
 
You are too far away in the video to see detail but by proportion you look to be in pretty good shape.

A body fat of 24% is not bad but you might go a little lower if you like. Sounds as if you don't trust your body fat measurement's accuracy. I believe that the simpler measuring methods are less accurate especially if you have more muscle mass than the average person of your height. This information seems important for your goal since - if you have more muscle than you are estimating - 160lbs will be way too low a weight for you.

I was just watching Fit to Hit on Tennis Channel and they were discussing body fat measurements.

http://www.tennischannel.com/programs/EpisodeDetail.aspx?id=5803

They said that there is a "Bod POD" technique that is pretty accurate, the test cost around $40.

I believe that this was the technique on the show.

http://www.humanhealthspecialists.com/bodpod-body-fat-testing/

Does anyone know anything about this test in an air-tight box? Another more accurate test was described but that costs $100-150.

(BTW, I believe that Danielle Dotzenrod measured about 19-22% BF in the various testing methods. ...........)

The are many ads showing 'cut' bodybuilder models especially before and after using some product. These 'cut' bodybuilders do not look very good to me. IMO if you look particularly at their cheeks they often look under fed and somewhat unhealthy.

Thanks man, I'll check it out! Thanks for the load of info.
 
You look like a endo-mesomorph to me, but what do I know. If you want to get into this topic, which is rather archaic, there was a book puliblished in the 50s called "The Atlas of Men" where the 3 somatypes are extended to 88 mixed types, each named after an animal. You will find the cats (classical mesomorphs), birds of prey (ecto-mesomorphs) and several other animals familys. Kind of proto or pseudo-science (especially the psycho-babble bits), but very interesting if you can find a copy. With each type there is a chart that shows typical weight at various ages. Nealy all types get heavier with age, although the author does say that a guy can buck that trend by getting/staying in "fighting trim", but we all know how much work/dietary discipline that involves.

In the end though you are what you are. You like you move well for a 5'8" 195 pound guy.

Hmmm I've never heard of the body types before but from the sounds of it it looks like it's pretty dated. When I was in college I was 160lbs. I bulked up to 185 in the gym and then lost a lot of mass while I was in graduate school. Now like 10-11 years later here I am stuck at 200. My loves to be at this weight. I don't know how to break the cycle. I don't eat terribly and I wan't to avoid these crash diets I see people do.

I've stop eating anything after 8pm, I guess that's a start.
 
Just based on your height / weight / and appearance in that video, I'd guess you are more like 27%-30% bodyfat. Seriously. Go find yourself a bod pod like Chas suggests. That's what I use. It's really accurate (and measures most people higher bf% than they think / want to believe).

In the end, it really probably doesn't matter what your % is anyway. But if you really want to know, you need to find an accurate machine to measure yourself.

If you want to diet / lifestyle change, buy the "Mayo Clinic Diet". Its just a book about common sense (eat fruits and vegetables and exercise).
 
Just based on your height / weight / and appearance in that video, I'd guess you are more like 27%-30% bodyfat. Seriously. Go find yourself a bod pod like Chas suggests. That's what I use. It's really accurate (and measures most people higher bf% than they think / want to believe).

In the end, it really probably doesn't matter what your % is anyway. But if you really want to know, you need to find an accurate machine to measure yourself.

If you want to diet / lifestyle change, buy the "Mayo Clinic Diet". Its just a book about common sense (eat fruits and vegetables and exercise).

Cool. Thanks for the tips. I sorta want to know what my BF % is so I know what a reasonable target weight for me is. Like is I'm 30% BF then a target weight like 155 isn't unreasonable is it? My wife doesn't want me to lose any weight (she likes beefy guys) but I want to play better tennis. Movement is my biggest achilles heel.

The funny thing is I don't have a gut. If I'm 30% and technically obese shouldn't I have a gut?
 
You are smart to want to cut your weight.

Not only will it make you faster on the court, but it will take a lot of stress off of your knees, hips, ankles and back.


Don't diet. That is, don't go on one of those crazy diets that
you can't sustain.

I assume you plan to live a long time. There are plenty of great foods and eating habits that can you can sustain.

Examples:

Eat breakfast. Oatmeal or cold cereal with fruit gets the day started. (No doughnuts.)

Make your own lunch most of the time. A sandwich with some fruit is better for you than most fast food fare.

Have a salad every night to start off your dinner. It's "food for you, and will help fill you up.

You are what you eat. Eat junk food and you are junk. Junk food includes chips, soda and more than the occasional beer.

Good luck!

(For what its worth I would peg you as a mesomorph.)
 
Doesn't matter what you are in terms of classification, you're main goal is to lose weight. Most people think they are a lower bf than they are, you don't need a bod pod. You can get calipers and do a 7 point fold check and it will be accurate enough.

Not to be Captain Obvious but if you want to lose the kind of weight you are suggesting, you need to be working out, doing significant cardio, and eating properly. The first thing you need to do is figure out what you are eating, a lot of people don't realize how many calories they take in between drinking empty calories and portion size.

So the first thing I'd do if I were you would be to write down or put in an excel spreadsheet what you generally eat on a daily basis and the macros (carbs, protein, fats) and total calories with each item. From there, assuming the food is relatively healthy, what you want to do is create about a 250-500 calorie deficit per day. You can do that with a combo of diet, cardio, and working out based on your schedule each day.

A lot of times, if the diet is sloppy, just cleaning it up will lead to a 250-500 caloric deficit. If that's the case then I'd still go for a bit more in terms of creating a caloric deficit, as in adding another 250 caloric deficit because those 250-500 calories that come from cleaning up your diet could generally be empty calories. For example, if you drank normal soda and got rid of 1-2 of those per day, your body won't miss those calories in terms of when you work out or do exercise. In contrast, if you are already eating pretty clean, then when you remove say a chicken breast that you may eat, that is high quality protein that your body would miss which could make further working out/body stress tougher to handle.

Also you need to figure out how active you are on a daily basis. You should shoot to work out maybe 4x a week and do cardio about 4x a week with a goal of upping the frequency and duration of cardio over time. Keep in mind this is based on your goal of losing about 40 lbs.

Most people can safely loss 1-2 lbs/week so don't try to kill yourself, it will take time and persistence.





Hi Guys,

I'm 37 years old and for the last few years I've been stuck at 195-200 pounds. MY body doesn't seem to want to budge off that weight no matter how much I eat or even over eat or exercise. I'm 5'8 and athletic. I used my friend scale which does body fat% and it said I had 24% body fat. (Haha I'm quarter fat!), I know these things are highly inaccurate though.

I've played sports (soccer, tennis, hockey) for all my life.

Here's a clip of me playing tennis.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NztIaylMnM&context=C30fcf77ADOEgsToPDskKBY_4OCwtYvIijA-IsXvxo

From your eye fitness gurus am I a mesomorph or an endomorph? If I figure this out maybe I can start figuring out a strategy about how to lose weight. I'd like to be around 160lbs. Is this reasonable?

Cheers,

Mike
 
Those numbers could be accurate - but you could be lower or higher as well. I think its +/-3 for a BIA.

Depending on your goals you can likely get leaner just by eliminating any excess fructose (honey, high fructose corn syrup, smoothies etc).

If that isn't enough I'd recommend some kind of carb restriction which is an easier method then counting calories. Any sort of caloric restriction will leave you open to a 'rebound' effect when you go off your diet. And this is why the phrase "diets don't work" is absolutely true, IMHO.

I realize that everyone won't believe me - so here is an article..

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/one_hundred_gram_carb_cure

Good luck..
 
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Doesn't matter what you are in terms of classification, you're main goal is to lose weight. Most people think they are a lower bf than they are, you don't need a bod pod. You can get calipers and do a 7 point fold check and it will be accurate enough.

Not to be Captain Obvious but if you want to lose the kind of weight you are suggesting, you need to be working out, doing significant cardio, and eating properly. The first thing you need to do is figure out what you are eating, a lot of people don't realize how many calories they take in between drinking empty calories and portion size.

So the first thing I'd do if I were you would be to write down or put in an excel spreadsheet what you generally eat on a daily basis and the macros (carbs, protein, fats) and total calories with each item. From there, assuming the food is relatively healthy, what you want to do is create about a 250-500 calorie deficit per day. You can do that with a combo of diet, cardio, and working out based on your schedule each day.

A lot of times, if the diet is sloppy, just cleaning it up will lead to a 250-500 caloric deficit. If that's the case then I'd still go for a bit more in terms of creating a caloric deficit, as in adding another 250 caloric deficit because those 250-500 calories that come from cleaning up your diet could generally be empty calories. For example, if you drank normal soda and got rid of 1-2 of those per day, your body won't miss those calories in terms of when you work out or do exercise. In contrast, if you are already eating pretty clean, then when you remove say a chicken breast that you may eat, that is high quality protein that your body would miss which could make further working out/body stress tougher to handle.

Also you need to figure out how active you are on a daily basis. You should shoot to work out maybe 4x a week and do cardio about 4x a week with a goal of upping the frequency and duration of cardio over time. Keep in mind this is based on your goal of losing about 40 lbs.

Most people can safely loss 1-2 lbs/week so don't try to kill yourself, it will take time and persistence.

Sound advice. I like the 'cleaning up' idea of my diet. I don't eat terribly but there are empty calories I can totally eliminate. Thanks!
 
I know. Isn't that crazy? Technically I should probably be hooked up to a respirator but I'm not hehe. I use to work in endocrine research where they threw up BMI all over the place but the probably with BMI it assumes everyone has a certain body-fat percentage to height ratio. That would make a lot of body builders really obese hehe.

I use to lift in college and do some weights in the gym occasionally but I'm built more like a rugby player then a tennis player.

I want to lose some mass to help my movement be it fat or even muscle. I got big bones too....sigh...got a lot of things working against me lol.

Well, I wouldn't laugh it off. Your video doesn't answer the question but if you were Mr Universe material, you probably wouldn't have made this thread. I would consider taking the numbers seriously.
 
"Good Shape" - Look in the Mirror

I think that the term "good shape" tells us the most and it should be taken very literally. Look at yourself in the mirror or, possibly more accurate, take pictures from the front, back and sides. Set the camera up some distance away (~30') with some telephoto to reduce distortions - height should almost fill the frame.

A lot of references recommend looking in the mirror as better than studying some generalized description such as BMI because, as mentioned, there are differences for individuals. This is especially the case if you start working out and lose some fat but gain some muscle. Your shape slims & improves but your weight may even increase. [Gaining 5 lb of muscle in a year is difficult for the average man.]

IMO, ideally a person's shape should be dominated by bones and muscle with an even thin layer of fat so that, specifically, you don't look cut. Difficult to achieve for the average man..........

Another factor for deciding on a body weight goal - since you have been through all body weights <200 lb, what weight do you think was your best? Old pictures might help?
 
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They said that there is a "Bod POD" technique that is pretty accurate, the test cost around $40.
Thanks. Was always squeamish about doing the water test.

Found this link to find Bod PODs:

http://www.cosmed.com/locator

The are many ads showing 'cut' bodybuilder models especially before and after using some product. These 'cut' bodybuilders do not look very good to me. IMO if you look particularly at their cheeks they often look under fed and somewhat unhealthy.
+1. Doubt many of them could play tennis at a decent level. I got down to 9% for a while. Was miserable. Felt like I wasn't eating enough. Probably wasn't.

OP, don't forget to get enough sleep.
 
Well, I wouldn't laugh it off. Your video doesn't answer the question but if you were Mr Universe material, you probably wouldn't have made this thread. I would consider taking the numbers seriously.

No laughing here. I think what it comes to is, I don't feel terrible, in fact my blood pressure is 114/70. Not bad for a technically obese guy.

I just want to lose weight for tennis. Be it both fat and muscle. I don't really care. I wouldn't mind being 155-160lbs. I'm just trying to figure it out whether it's realistic for me. That's me losing like 40-45 pounds, like a quarter of my weight. Factoring my fat percentage being lets say 25%...that means I would basically be under 5% body fat. I think that's a bit ridiculous.

Though the average healthy weight so deemed by the experts would be around 155lbs. I'm sure it was the same experts that create BMI.

To be honest, it's not even about the way I look. I'm married and have a 4 month year old. My wife is gorgeous and she likes her hubby the way he is. It's just I want to move better for tennis.

I've picked up the bench press bar in the gym and it's 45lbs. Then I think, imagine what it would be to run around with this thing. Then I realize that's exactly what I'm doing be 200lbs when I should be 155.
 
I think that the term "good shape" tells us the most and it should be taken very literally. Look at yourself in the mirror or, possibly more accurate, take pictures from the front, back and sides. Set the camera up some distance away (~30') with some telephoto to reduce distortions - height should almost fill the frame.

A lot of references recommend looking in the mirror as better than studying some generalized description such as BMI because, as mentioned, there are differences for individuals. This is especially the case if you start working out and lose some fat but gain some muscle. Your shape slims & improves but your weight may even increase. [Gaining 5 lb of muscle in a year is difficult for the average man.]

IMO, ideally a person's shape should be dominated by bones and muscle with an even thin layer of fat so that, specifically, you don't look cut. Difficult to achieve for the average man..........

Another factor for deciding on a body weight goal - since you have been through all body weights <200 lb, what weight do you think was your best? Old pictures might help?

I agree. I'm a built like a small tank. I can leg bench quite a bit. I know I'll never have a small build, it's not in my genes. Actually it's kinda odd for an asian guy. I traced my heritage to north of china, probably had some russian in here somewhere down the line...got hairy legs and arms too. (hmmmm.... Mom?)

Mesomorph, end, exo, everyone I talk to says it's a bunch of old BS (including people on this board). MY wife says start at a target of losing 20 pounds...down to 180 and then see how I feel.

I like what the other poster said about cleaning up my diet. I do eat big meals...especially when I have a match or hockey game. Maybe it's time to re-examine those meals...maybe the extra calories aren't really needed. I'm no Micheal Phelps.

Thanks for everyone advice. I'm going to look into the bod pod thing shortly...

Uhoh baby's crying....gotta go!
 
I wish I had made a life style change at 40......

For sports nutrition I like the book

Advanced Sports Nutrition, D. Benardot

It covers several subjects that I was interested in, for example, when to eat before a match and what you want from a sports drink. It explains in detail.

For being faster, 10 years ago I lost 10% body weight and did leg exercises at the gym and got noticeably faster. Recently I did some PT using bands and have become a believer - a band around your ankles or knees can effectively strengthen and build endurance particularly in the secondary glute muscles. Legs presses miss these abductor-adductor muscles. Since doing the PT I now have noticed that these same PT exercises have been recommended all along in tennis conditioning books, one of which is

Complete Conditioning for Tennis, E. Roetert & T. Ellenbecker

After 40, average men tend to lose 1/2-1% muscle mass per year. Strength training can add a few percent per year so if you go to the gym you'll do fine. Work at a computer, watch TV and play tennis 6 hours a week...........?.....

Long Term Diet Issue - The huge health issue is preventing build up of arterial plaque that eventually causes heart attacks and strokes. This issue is probably increasingly important for most people after age 30, you. I don't subscribe to just taking statins to control the problem, but that is what most people do. You can often control this issue with life style and diet.

The usual current thinking is to minimize saturated fats, eat low glycemic index foods, and other diet changes and I believe in those. Many references are available.

Some other new research has indicated that sugars and other quick calories may be more important for plaque buildup than saturated fats. This would be another medical bombshell if true! I don't accept this theory yet but it sounds reasonable and I am very interested in the ideas –

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM
This is a 1 ½ hour long, serious video. Recommend viewing it in pieces or your head will overheat. The first several minutes introduces the main idea.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=carbs-against-cardio

To start, get some good reference books particularly on tennis conditioning, general nutrition, sports nutrition, drop 10 pounds to 185-190, do resistance leg exercises such as leg presses with one leg (unilateral for balance) and learn the special leg conditioning exercises recommended for tennis.
 
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No laughing here. I think what it comes to is, I don't feel terrible, in fact my blood pressure is 114/70. Not bad for a technically obese guy.

I just want to lose weight for tennis. Be it both fat and muscle. I don't really care. I wouldn't mind being 155-160lbs. I'm just trying to figure it out whether it's realistic for me. That's me losing like 40-45 pounds, like a quarter of my weight. Factoring my fat percentage being lets say 25%...that means I would basically be under 5% body fat. I think that's a bit ridiculous.

Though the average healthy weight so deemed by the experts would be around 155lbs. I'm sure it was the same experts that create BMI.

To be honest, it's not even about the way I look. I'm married and have a 4 month year old. My wife is gorgeous and she likes her hubby the way he is. It's just I want to move better for tennis.

I've picked up the bench press bar in the gym and it's 45lbs. Then I think, imagine what it would be to run around with this thing. Then I realize that's exactly what I'm doing be 200lbs when I should be 155.


You touch on many issues,: your wife's preferences, tennis, health, statistics...

It doesn't ultimately matter how you rank them, you are convinced (as am I) that your weight number needs to be lower. OK, so lower it. My guess is all of the above will improve when you do.
 
Why waste time on the bod pod, you're obviously realizing you need to lose weight so focus on that. Secondly, don't establish limitations before you even start. You say you'll never have a small build, it's not in your genes...have you ever dieted hard, done significant cardio, worked out regularly, etc? It doesn't do you any good to immediately have a mental limit before you even start.

As I said in a previous post, if you are disciplined and doing this safely, you should be losing 2lbs max per week meaning in 3 months you'll have lost 24 lbs.



I agree. I'm a built like a small tank. I can leg bench quite a bit. I know I'll never have a small build, it's not in my genes. Actually it's kinda odd for an asian guy. I traced my heritage to north of china, probably had some russian in here somewhere down the line...got hairy legs and arms too. (hmmmm.... Mom?)

Mesomorph, end, exo, everyone I talk to says it's a bunch of old BS (including people on this board). MY wife says start at a target of losing 20 pounds...down to 180 and then see how I feel.

I like what the other poster said about cleaning up my diet. I do eat big meals...especially when I have a match or hockey game. Maybe it's time to re-examine those meals...maybe the extra calories aren't really needed. I'm no Micheal Phelps.

Thanks for everyone advice. I'm going to look into the bod pod thing shortly...

Uhoh baby's crying....gotta go!
 
A thread about mesomorphs and endomorphs is like the threads debating whether a particular racquet is a player's racquet or a tweener --- debating arbitrary, obsolete, and not very meaningful distinctions.
 
No laughing here. I think what it comes to is, I don't feel terrible, in fact my blood pressure is 114/70. Not bad for a technically obese guy.

I just want to lose weight for tennis. Be it both fat and muscle. I don't really care. I wouldn't mind being 155-160lbs. I'm just trying to figure it out whether it's realistic for me. That's me losing like 40-45 pounds, like a quarter of my weight. Factoring my fat percentage being lets say 25%...that means I would basically be under 5% body fat. I think that's a bit ridiculous.

Though the average healthy weight so deemed by the experts would be around 155lbs. I'm sure it was the same experts that create BMI.

To be honest, it's not even about the way I look. I'm married and have a 4 month year old. My wife is gorgeous and she likes her hubby the way he is. It's just I want to move better for tennis.

I've picked up the bench press bar in the gym and it's 45lbs. Then I think, imagine what it would be to run around with this thing. Then I realize that's exactly what I'm doing be 200lbs when I should be 155.

I would be more concerned about your body fat % than your weight. The problem with BMI is that it doesn't distinguish fat from muscle. Some people are born with more muscle fiber and muscle bulk than others. Yes, 200 lbs at 5'8" seems too heavy for tennis. But, if it's all muscle then it's not, IMO. My advice would be to get in great tennis shape, get your body fat % down to 15% or less, and let your weight be what it is.
 
I would be more concerned about your body fat % than your weight. The problem with BMI is that it doesn't distinguish fat from muscle. Some people are born with more muscle fiber and muscle bulk than others. Yes, 200 lbs at 5'8" seems too heavy for tennis. But, if it's all muscle then it's not, IMO. My advice would be to get in great tennis shape, get your body fat % down to 15% or less, and let your weight be what it is.

To a point I am in agreement. However, in tennis it is far easier on the joints to carry less weight, whether or not that weight is fat or muscle.

I switched to tennis from powerlifting and bodybuilding, and was carrying 210+ pounds at <8% bodyfat. This was very hard on my ankles and knees. Once I hit 190 pounds, my ankles and knees no longer ached. Obviously much (most) of that weight loss was torso muscle which was unneeded in tennis, as I simply didn't have a lot of fat to lose.

If the poster is 5'8 and 200, I would recommend trying to get to, say, 180 pounds. Even if the 200 pounds is solid.

Just my $0.02.
 
I agree on the low carb plan. Protein is a building block for the body. Fat/oil is both a building block (cellmembranes, brain etc) and a potential fuel. Carbohydrates are only fuel and burned first, BUT if in exess can be stored as fat. If you want to burn fat, you need to go so low in carbs that the body turns to the fat. And of course the smart carbs are the slow, low gi, healthy ones from greens and to an lesser extent fruit, berries and whole grain. So as little sugar and processed grains as possible, less grain overall, and more greens is the way to lasting weightloss in my experience. Of course it is also good to be concious about the amount and quality of fats and oils in your diet. And get proteins with every meal.
 
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I dropped 45 pounds (220 to 175) in 2011 in about nine months using a combination of low carb and calorie counting using Livestrong. It makes tennis (and everything else except walking through fire doors) so much easier. There are a number of websites that allow you to track what you eat - you enter the food and it computes the rest so you can just look at a pie chart to see where your carb, fat and protein percentages are.
 
I agree on the low carb plan. Protein is a building block for the body. Fat/oil is both a building block (cellmembranes, brain etc) and a potential fuel. Carbohydrates are only fuel and burned first, BUT if in exess can be stored as fat. If you want to burn fat, you need to go so low in carbs that the body turns to the fat. And of course the smart carbs are the slow, low gi, healthy ones from greens and to an lesser extent fruit, berries and whole grain. So as little sugar and processed grains as possible, less grain overall, and more greens is the way to lasting weightloss in my experience. Of course it is also good to be concious about the amount and quality of fats and oils in your diet. And get proteins with every meal.

All calories, consumed to excess, are converted to fat.

A low carb diet works, in general, because it restricts calories.
This is also why low fat or low protein diets can work.

A person can lose weight and build muscle with a very small amount of protein. Or with a larger amount. Really, in this case, it is what is a) healthy and b) works for your own taste

A final note...most Americans consume too much carbohydrate...and too much fat...and too much protein.
 
Doesn't matter what you are in terms of classification, you're main goal is to lose weight. Most people think they are a lower bf than they are, you don't need a bod pod. You can get calipers and do a 7 point fold check and it will be accurate enough.

Not to be Captain Obvious but if you want to lose the kind of weight you are suggesting, you need to be working out, doing significant cardio, and eating properly. The first thing you need to do is figure out what you are eating, a lot of people don't realize how many calories they take in between drinking empty calories and portion size.

So the first thing I'd do if I were you would be to write down or put in an excel spreadsheet what you generally eat on a daily basis and the macros (carbs, protein, fats) and total calories with each item. From there, assuming the food is relatively healthy, what you want to do is create about a 250-500 calorie deficit per day. You can do that with a combo of diet, cardio, and working out based on your schedule each day.

A lot of times, if the diet is sloppy, just cleaning it up will lead to a 250-500 caloric deficit. If that's the case then I'd still go for a bit more in terms of creating a caloric deficit, as in adding another 250 caloric deficit because those 250-500 calories that come from cleaning up your diet could generally be empty calories. For example, if you drank normal soda and got rid of 1-2 of those per day, your body won't miss those calories in terms of when you work out or do exercise. In contrast, if you are already eating pretty clean, then when you remove say a chicken breast that you may eat, that is high quality protein that your body would miss which could make further working out/body stress tougher to handle.

Also you need to figure out how active you are on a daily basis. You should shoot to work out maybe 4x a week and do cardio about 4x a week with a goal of upping the frequency and duration of cardio over time. Keep in mind this is based on your goal of losing about 40 lbs.

Most people can safely loss 1-2 lbs/week so don't try to kill yourself, it will take time and persistence.

This is great advice, I would follow it OP.
 
I agree on the low carb plan. Protein is a building block for the body. Fat/oil is both a building block (cellmembranes, brain etc) and a potential fuel. Carbohydrates are only fuel and burned first, BUT if in exess can be stored as fat. If you want to burn fat, you need to go so low in carbs that the body turns to the fat. And of course the smart carbs are the slow, low gi, healthy ones from greens and to an lesser extent fruit, berries and whole grain. So as little sugar and processed grains as possible, less grain overall, and more greens is the way to lasting weightloss in my experience. Of course it is also good to be concious about the amount and quality of fats and oils in your diet. And get proteins with every meal.

The body does not turn to stored fat for energy just by going low in carbs. You MUST create a caloric deficit or your body will not use stored body fat for energy. Why would the body use stored fat for energy if all the energy the body needs is provided by the diet?
 
Actually I am no expert. But logic tells me that as carbs are burned before fats, a low carb diet is conducive to weight loss. But ofcourse not if your caloric intake is too high. Do you have a source for proteins being stored as fat? And building muscle with a very low protein intake? Just trying to learn here.
 
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Actually I am no expert. But logic tells me that as carbs are burned before fats, a low carb diet is conducive to weight loss. But ofcourse not if your caloric intake is too high. Do you have a source for proteins being stored as fat? And building muscle with a very low protein intake? Just trying to learn here.

I actually pretty much agree with most of what you said - carbs are burned before fats, dietary fats that is. When calories are consumed and broken down the body selects its fuel based on its ability (or lack thereof) to store that nutrient. Carbs are burned first because the body has limited available storage for them whereas it has virtually unlimited storage capacity for fats. But all excess calories will be stored as fat whether it is from CHO or fat. Proteins generally won't get stored as fat. Excess protein is oxidized before CHO because there is no immediate available storage option for protein.

A low carb diet IS conducive to weight loss as long as a caloric deficit is maintained. A lot of people find it easier to maintain a deficit on a low carb diet, no doubt. But protein is very satiating and low carb diets are generally higher in protein. Maybe its the higher levels of protein and not the lower levels of carbs that has the effect. A low fat diet can be very satiating if it is high enough in protein, but this can be more difficult to sustain because it limits your protein selection only to low fat options. I like a mixed diet personally because you get some carbs and can still have higher fat proteins, just not as often, but I like low fat proteins too so it works out good and gives me the best variety of food options. But whatever your preference is, is just that, your preference because they all work if you maintain a caloric deficit.

I have no info on building muscle with a low protein intake. General rule - 1 g/lb LBM of protein daily.
 
Actually I am no expert. But logic tells me that as carbs are burned before fats, a low carb diet is conducive to weight loss. But ofcourse not if your caloric intake is too high. Do you have a source for proteins being stored as fat? And building muscle with a very low protein intake? Just trying to learn here.

Calories, consumed to excess, are stored as fat.
Calories are made up of protein, carbohydrates, or fat (or alcohol).

Muscle is comprised MOSTLY of water, NOT protein. Thus, 'logically', if one wanted to build bigger muscles, they would just drink gallons of water. Of course, that is silly. Just as it is silly to consume a drastic surplus of protein per day.

Let's assume you want to build 10 pounds of muscle in a year. A pound of muscle is roughly 800 calories ( a pound of fat is about 3500 calories). So, that means 8,000 calories a year for building 10 pounds of muscle. Assuming all of that should be protein (no, but for fun let's say it is), that is 2,000 extra grams of protein (4 calories per gram of protein)...over the course of 365 days, that is 5.5 grams a day. 2 egg whites would give you more than 5.5 grams of protein. Or 6 ounces of milk. Or 2 pieces of whole grain bread...or....

Thus, a person can build significant muscle with just 5.5 grams over the maintenance level of protein. Which means most people can build muscle with about 60 grams of protein a day (RDA is 56, and 56+5.5=61.5).

Clearly lack of protein consumption is NOT the issue for most Americans.

The issue is twofold:
1) dietary. I.e. too MUCH fat, too MUCH carbohydrate, and too MUCH protein.
2) exercise. Most Americans do not do enough to stimulate muscle growth and stimulate fat loss.

There are other factors here, of course. Metabolisms vary, and dieters ruin their metabolism with extreme diets. But that is part of my Fitness 201, this was just the 101 class :)
 
Be aware the above rationale - excess calories are stored as fat is likely a bit simplistic. A low carb 'diet' seems to work well for three basic reasons..

1) People seem better at naturally matching their intake with their caloric needs when they stick with low carbs.

2) The body seems reluctant to turn protein and fat into body fat - but very willing to quickly shuttle glucose into fat cells.

3) You tend to lower your sugar intake - which some would consider the secret 'x' factor in weight gain. It's thought by some that sugar will make you insulin resistant and thus make you more likely to store carbs as fat and less likely for those fat cells to 'release' their energy when your blood sugar is low.

I put 'diet' in quotes because carb restriction diets are not diets in the traditional sense - you don't have to restrict your calories. Instead you rely on the bodies natural ability to request as many calories as it needs depending on your activity level.

Think about being thristy. I don't have to track my water intake for fear of killing myself from drinking too much or dehydrating from drinking too little. My natural 'thirst' guides me very well most of the time..

It should be the same with appetite - and many people feel it is for them.
 
Calories, consumed to excess, are stored as fat.
Calories are made up of protein, carbohydrates, or fat (or alcohol).

Muscle is comprised MOSTLY of water, NOT protein. Thus, 'logically', if one wanted to build bigger muscles, they would just drink gallons of water. Of course, that is silly. Just as it is silly to consume a drastic surplus of protein per day.

Let's assume you want to build 10 pounds of muscle in a year. A pound of muscle is roughly 800 calories ( a pound of fat is about 3500 calories). So, that means 8,000 calories a year for building 10 pounds of muscle. Assuming all of that should be protein (no, but for fun let's say it is), that is 2,000 extra grams of protein (4 calories per gram of protein)...over the course of 365 days, that is 5.5 grams a day. 2 egg whites would give you more than 5.5 grams of protein. Or 6 ounces of milk. Or 2 pieces of whole grain bread...or....

Thus, a person can build significant muscle with just 5.5 grams over the maintenance level of protein. Which means most people can build muscle with about 60 grams of protein a day (RDA is 56, and 56+5.5=61.5).

Clearly lack of protein consumption is NOT the issue for most Americans.

The issue is twofold:
1) dietary. I.e. too MUCH fat, too MUCH carbohydrate, and too MUCH protein.
2) exercise. Most Americans do not do enough to stimulate muscle growth and stimulate fat loss.

There are other factors here, of course. Metabolisms vary, and dieters ruin their metabolism with extreme diets. But that is part of my Fitness 201, this was just the 101 class :)

A lot of studies suggest that the RDA amount of 56 g is insufficient.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18090656
http://sportsci.org/jour/9901/rbk.html
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2129150/

http://www.nsca-lift.org/HotTopic/download/Protein Needs.pdf
"The National Strength and Conditioning Association recommends athletes consume 1.5 to 2.0 g/kg of body weight of
protein to ensure adequate protein intake (20). Athletes involved in moderate amounts of intense training (2 – 3 times per
week for 30 – 45 minutes per session) should consume levels at the lower end of this range (110 – 130 grams/day for a 75kg
athlete) while athletes involved in high volume intense training should consume levels at the upper end of this range (130
– 150 grams/day for a 75kg athlete) (1). There has not been an abundance of scientific studies investigating the optimal
amount of dietary protein intakes for athletes. Of the few well-controlled studies that exist, there is a consistent observation
that 0.8 g//kg of body weight is not sufficient for supporting whole body protein synthesis or inducing a positive net protein
balance (8, 9, 17 – 19, 23)."


Adding 6 g/day to build 10 lbs of muscle assumes that all 6 grams of protein go directly to building muscle, which isn't necessarily the case.

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/mu...irements-for-strength-and-power-athletes.html

"An added issue is that solely looking at skeletal muscle may be missing pathways of importance to athletes. Immune system, connective tissue synthesis and a host of other pathways use amino acids; presumably athletes will upregulate those pathways. Meaning that true protein requirements, if you only look at what’s going on in the muscle, may be under-estimating what athletes truly need to maximize every aspect of performance."
 
Be aware the above rationale - excess calories are stored as fat is likely a bit simplistic. A low carb 'diet' seems to work well for three basic reasons..

1) People seem better at naturally matching their intake with their caloric needs when they stick with low carbs.

2) The body seems reluctant to turn protein and fat into body fat - but very willing to quickly shuttle glucose into fat cells.

3) You tend to lower your sugar intake - which some would consider the secret 'x' factor in weight gain. It's thought by some that sugar will make you insulin resistant and thus make you more likely to store carbs as fat and less likely for those fat cells to 'release' their energy when your blood sugar is low.

I put 'diet' in quotes because carb restriction diets are not diets in the traditional sense - you don't have to restrict your calories. Instead you rely on the bodies natural ability to request as many calories as it needs depending on your activity level.

Think about being thristy. I don't have to track my water intake for fear of killing myself from drinking too much or dehydrating from drinking too little. My natural 'thirst' guides me very well most of the time..

It should be the same with appetite - and many people feel it is for them.

There is nothing overly simplistic about excess calories being stored as fat.

I agree with point #1 if you say "some people" because it doesn't work out that way for everybody.

#2 - protein is least likely to be stored as fat, followed by CHO, then fat
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nutrition/excess-protein-and-fat-storage-qa.html
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nu...-nutrient-storage-and-nutrient-oxidation.html
" the size of a nutrient’s store in the body is inversely related to the body’s propensity to oxidize it after ingestion."

As far as resticting calories, it can be misleading to say you don't have to restrict them. This does not mean calories don't matter anymore, you can still eat too much, and some people do.
 
Let me put this in perspective. Despite a lot of claims to the contrary, the actual conversion of carbohydrate to fat in humans under normal dietary conditions is small approaching insignificant (a topic I discussed at least briefly in Nutrient Intake, Nutrient Storage and Nutrient Oxidation).

Blogger is talking about de novo lipogenesis. Which is just one metabolic pathway. FWIW he gets the science wrong here as its thought to be pretty common..

A diet weighed towards carbohydrates, especially if 50% or greater calories are carbohydrate, is sufficient to provoke plenty of DNL, even in slender people. DNL is a big part of the reason why low-fat (and, thereby, high-carbohydrate) diets result in higher triglycerides. DNL really gets turned on many-fold if the carbohydrates are “simple,” rather than “complex.”

However I wasn't talking about DNL - just the way insulin regulates glucose in the blood stream.

http://www.trackyourplaque.com/blog/2010/01/de-novo-lipo-what.html

See I can find bloggers too - at least mine is Doctor not some trainer wannabe.

Now back to the matter at hand - how the body deals with carbohydrates..most of the time.

When levels of blood sugar rise, whether as a result of glycogen conversion, or from digestion of a meal, a different hormone is released from beta cells found in the Islets of Langerhans in the pancreas. This hormone, insulin, causes the liver to convert more glucose into glycogen (this process is called glycogenesis), and to force about 2/3 of body cells (primarily muscle and fat tissue cells) to take up glucose from the blood through the GLUT4 transporter, thus decreasing blood sugar. When insulin binds to the receptors on the cell surface, vesicles containing the GLUT4 transporters come to the plasma membrane and fuse together by the process of exocytosis and thus enabling a facilitated diffusion of glucose into the cell. As soon as the glucose enters the cell, it is phosphorylated into Glucose-6-Phosphate in order to preserve the concentration gradient so glucose will continue to enter the cell.[1] Insulin also provides signals to several other body systems, and is the chief regulatory metabolic control in humans.

Muscle cells will take in glucose too - but in limited quantities. This is why its best to carb cycle if you are lifting. They become less resistant when you have just exercised. When you sit on your butt all the time at eat potato chips that excess glucose which is toxic to the body has to be moved - and its the fat cells that do the dirty work.

We have been through this before - and you still quote that blogger as if he was an actual authority.. Sedentary americans do great on low carb diets - its been well established now and it consistently beats calorie restrictive diets.

You can quibble about how YOU think the science doesn't explain that..but over and over low carb and high protein have been winning out. (And the two almost always go hand in hand - fat and proteins are very often found together in nature).
 
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As far as resticting calories, it can be misleading to say you don't have to restrict them. This does not mean calories don't matter anymore, you can still eat too much, and some people do.

The problem here is the assumption that 'thin' people do this masterful job of matching their intake and outake of calories via concious thought.

This is what I mean by 'restriction.' What I am saying is that if you eat the right foods your body tells you how much food you should eat. The 'feedback' loop works - just as it does for people drinking water..

You might not get 'ripped' with this method - but plenty of fat people will lose weight. The alternative theory is that it doesn't matter what you eat - you have to 'starve' yourself to the exact right amount..

If you sweat - you get thirsty. If you don't drink for a long time you get thirsty. But you don't worry (in general) that you will kill yourself with excess water if you just drink when you are thirsty.

Now you can believe that the body is incapable of regulating its fat levels if you like - I don't. The body is pretty good at regulating its internal systems - that's how you stay alive. if you eat the same foods that humans evolved to eat you will stay reasonably thin and healthy without calorie counting. Unfortunately for us we didn't evolve to eat lots of processed carbs.

Will you get ripped like a pre-contest body builder. No. You do have to do more to get yourself to that unnatural state. Like I said most people will achieve many modest goals by eliminating sugars and grains - two things that are recent additions to the human diet.

If you want to take it to the next level - sure concious calorie restriction would work - until you go off your diet and statistics say you will gain all the weight back and then some. Ya know like some bodybuilder in his bulk phase..
 
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Glad that I am not totally of, according to knowledgeable people here. And totally agree about the sateity thing, proteins sateitates(?) one (me) better than carbs, which often leave you wanting more, especially sugar of course.
Because of the hierachy in caloric burn and differences in excess storage, not all kj are created equal when it comes to putting together a diet that is conducive to weight loss or maintenance, imo.
 
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Blogger is talking about de novo lipogenesis. Which is just one metabolic pathway. FWIW he gets the science wrong here as its thought to be pretty common..



However I wasn't talking about DNL - just the way insulin regulates glucose in the blood stream.

http://www.trackyourplaque.com/blog/2010/01/de-novo-lipo-what.html

See I can find bloggers too - at least mine is Doctor not some trainer wannabe.

One of the studies your Dr. links to:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC185982/pdf/jcinvest00018-0200.pdf
Shows no significant DNL until CHO calories are 25-50% in excess, which is what I am saying. In normal healthy individuals CHO is only converted to fat in any significant amount when calories are in excess. There is minimal DNL occuring under the eucaloric diet, but there is still no weight gain because there is caloric balance. The study also says "Absolute rates of DNL were not quantitatively large even on excess CHO diets"

However, I wasn't really trying to talk about DNL either, it happen to be in the link, which wasn't really the link I wanted to post, just couldn't find the one I was looking for, this one - I was trying to show the oxidative hierarchy of nutrients which we were discussing, however this one discusses DNL too.

http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/3/1/25

"When digested foods enter the bloodstream there is an oxidative hierarchy. The macronutrient that is most easily stored (fat) is oxidized last, while macronutrients that can not be stored at all (alcohol), or that can only be stored under certain circumstances (protein) or in limited amounts (carbohydrate) are oxidized first [10]. Alcohol ingestion directly increases alcohol oxidation, which is maintained until all alcohol is cleared. Protein and carbohydrate oxidation closely follow intake. In contrast, fat intake does not stimulate fat oxidation. Moreover, fat oxidation is inhibited by high intakes of the other macronutrients [10-12]."


Now back to the matter at hand - how the body deals with carbohydrates..most of the time.



Muscle cells will take in glucose too - but in limited quantities. This is why its best to carb cycle if you are lifting. They become less resistant when you have just exercised. When you sit on your butt all the time at eat potato chips that excess glucose which is toxic to the body has to be moved - and its the fat cells that do the dirty work.

We have been through this before - and you still quote that blogger as if he was an actual authority.. Sedentary americans do great on low carb diets - its been well established now and it consistently beats calorie restrictive diets.

You can quibble about how YOU think the science doesn't explain that..but over and over low carb and high protein have been winning out. (And the two almost always go hand in hand - fat and proteins are very often found together in nature).

Of course no one is saying sit on your butt and eat potato chips, which not only are high in CHO but also high in fat and total calories. While I agree that the research shows higher protein content is beneficial, You can eat high protein and high carbs if you are willing to cut the fat. If you dont want to cut the fat, yes, you should definitely cut back on carbs rather than protein. Protein is very satiating and preserves LBM.

I don't think low carb is "winning out", in fact, I didn't realize it was a contest. If anything, to me lately, it sounds like weight watchers is winning out.
 
The problem here is the assumption that 'thin' people do this masterful job of matching their intake and outake of calories via concious thought.

This is what I mean by 'restriction.' What I am saying is that if you eat the right foods your body tells you how much food you should eat. The 'feedback' loop works - just as it does for people drinking water..

You might not get 'ripped' with this method - but plenty of fat people will lose weight. The alternative theory is that it doesn't matter what you eat - you have to 'starve' yourself to the exact right amount..

If you sweat - you get thirsty. If you don't drink for a long time you get thirsty. But you don't worry (in general) that you will kill yourself with excess water if you just drink when you are thirsty.

Now you can believe that the body is incapable of regulating its fat levels if you like - I don't. The body is pretty good at regulating its internal systems - that's how you stay alive. if you eat the same foods that humans evolved to eat you will stay reasonably thin and healthy without calorie counting. Unfortunately for us we didn't evolve to eat lots of processed carbs.

Will you get ripped like a pre-contest body builder. No. You do have to do more to get yourself to that unnatural state. Like I said most people will achieve many modest goals by eliminating sugars and grains - two things that are recent additions to the human diet.

If you want to take it to the next level - sure concious calorie restriction would work - until you go off your diet and statistics say you will gain all the weight back and then some. Ya know like some bodybuilder in his bulk phase..

I understand what you are saying, and I agree to an extent. Processed carbs are lower quality carbs, no doubt. But if you eat quality unrefined carbs you can eat a relatively higher % of carbs and still not throw your body off. And some people have no trouble eating some refined carbs and controlling their caloric intake.

Why is starvation the only alternative you see to a low carb diet? You can cut back a bit on calories without starving yourself, and even on a low carb diet, calories do matter. And of course when you go off the diet and start consuming more calories you will gain weight, but if you go off your low carb diet, and start eating carbs and too many calories you will gain weight as well.

Personally I have switched from a diet of about 80 g of CHO/day to a diet of 200-250 g of CHO/day without any change in bodyweight (or LBM from what it appears). I felt an increase in the quality of my more intense running sessions immediately. My protein intake and overall caloric intake stayed constant. I have no trouble not eating too much and I eat things like flour tortillas, grits, rice, potatoes, sweet potatoes, white bread, oatmeal w/blueberries and brown sugar. More processed carbs than I would recommend to others, but it works well for me. I also eat plenty of whole eggs, chicken, beef, and cheese with these carbs.

So, sorry, I don't think there is anything special about a low carb diet compared to a high carb diet if protein levels are equal and CHO quality is high.
 
I understand what you are saying, and I agree to an extent. Processed carbs are lower quality carbs, no doubt. But if you eat quality unrefined carbs you can eat a relatively higher % of carbs and still not throw your body off. And some people have no trouble eating some refined carbs and controlling their caloric intake.

Sure. Many people can eat a great quantity of carbs and do fine. You see this often in children. Children can often eat almost any amount of carbohydrate and never gain any weight.

But with age and consistent carb intake you build insulin resistance. Until such a time your bodies internal systems get thrown off and you can no longer regulate your food intake if your diet is high in carbs.

So for those people lowering their grain/sugar intake allows them to better regulate their food intake as the bodies feedback mechanism should in fact work better.

This is because when your insulin levels are low your fat cells can start to 'give back' the energy they have stored. If you have chronic insulin elevation the fat cells are chemically signalled to stay 'greedy.'

Why is starvation the only alternative you see to a low carb diet? You can cut back a bit on calories without starving yourself, and even on a low carb diet, calories do matter. And of course when you go off the diet and start consuming more calories you will gain weight, but if you go off your low carb diet, and start eating carbs and too many calories you will gain weight as well.

Starvation makes it sound extreme. But anytime you 'diet' by restricting your calories you are in a sense 'starving' yourself. You are withholding food when you are hungry.

Low carb diets are UNRESTRICTED. You can eat till when you are full. You rely on your body to signal your mind that you have had enough calories.

I am talking about an entirely different mindset - that was the thrist example i gave. You do not have to consciously regulate the amount of water you drink to live. Your body signals your mind that you are thristy and if you listen to your body you will do fine.

People tend to think that only the conscious mind controls food intake. But when you are hungry your cells themselves can be starving in that they don't have the energy they need.

If you are on a high carb diet you could potentially be very fat - but your lean body mass cells would be starving for nutrients. If you are insulin resistant your fat cells end up "stealing" all the food.

Personally I have switched from a diet of about 80 g of CHO/day to a diet of 200-250 g of CHO/day without any change in bodyweight (or LBM from what it appears). I felt an increase in the quality of my more intense running sessions immediately. My protein intake and overall caloric intake stayed constant. I have no trouble not eating too much and I eat things like flour tortillas, grits, rice, potatoes, sweet potatoes, white bread, oatmeal w/blueberries and brown sugar. More processed carbs than I would recommend to others, but it works well for me. I also eat plenty of whole eggs, chicken, beef, and cheese with these carbs.

And there are many individuals like you. But its people like you who probably shouldn't be giving weight loss advice. Because what works for your internal chemistry at your stage in life might now work for the OP who wants to lose a few pounds. LIkewise I am sure there are plenty of young smokers who can beat me in a race. You have a better functioning body then another individual might.

Ideally what should happen is you eat your food - excess calories get stored as fat. Your insulin levels FALL - your body needs additional fuel. But instead of just getting hungry your fat cells 'share' their fuel. Even if you had a high carb diet you MIGHT NOT be insulin resistant. That's why I said sugar is considered the x factor. If you at a low sugar high carb diet your whole life you might do fine.

So, sorry, I don't think there is anything special about a low carb diet compared to a high carb diet if protein levels are equal and CHO quality is high.

Quality of CHO doesn't matter that much for someone trying to fix chronically high insulin levels. Truth is even if the carbohydrates are complex they can still spike insulin levels. They might not spike it as rapidly but even if they are more slowly released into the blood they are spiking it.

The point of eating fat instead of carbohydrates is that medically they are proven not to cause much of an insulin response. So IF you suspect you are somewhat insulin resistant (and most pudgy overweight americans are) the the logical reponse is be careful about eating things that crank up your insulin levels. And taken to the next level you try to "time" your insulin spikes.

Insulin is a good thing too. People who can't produce any insulin (type I diabetes) can't gain any weight and need the insulin to live. It can help boost your muscle cells too. So elite athletes etc try to spike their insulin right after working out to jam nutrients into the muscles.

Its a hormonal theory of weight gain - and directly in conflict with the mental view of weight gain which posits that fat gain is a problem of 'sloth'. Certainly the sloth view is more ego fulfilling for people of good health but that doesn't mean its correct.

So in contrast to the eat x amount of calories - and do y amount of exercise and you will lose weight. I am saying let your body take care of itself. Eat the right foods and eat different foods at different times - and your you can right the ship. THis is the theory anyway.

And its actually way more complicated then this. There are tons of hormones that control nutrient partioning. For example its quite possible to take steroids - eat more - and get stronger and leaner WITHOUT working out. This is because the steroids make the fat cells 'giving' and at the same time the muscle cells become very accepting of nutrients and grow.

Hopefully in like six months I can tell you how well it all works in practice :P So far so good..about 12 pounds down for me. But not in like bragging shape yet. :P
 
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Low carb diets are UNRESTRICTED.

Yes, except for the carbs. Not really unrestricted.

And there are many individuals like you. But its people like you who probably shouldn't be giving weight loss advice. Because what works for your internal chemistry at your stage in life might now work for the OP who wants to lose a few pounds. LIkewise I am sure there are plenty of young smokers who can beat me in a race. You have a better functioning body then another individual might.

I shouldn't be giving advice because it MIGHT not work? MIGHT? And telling someone the diet is unrestricted, eat til your full! MIGHT not work either. Maybe you shouldn't be giving advice, it MIGHT not work. I've lost 60 lbs and kept it off, I'm 39, 2 years older than the OP. I've dropped 10 lbs in the last 2 years after losing 50 lbs and keeping that off for 7 years. My experience MIGHT be a good one to share.


Its a hormonal theory of weight gain - and directly in conflict with the mental view of weight gain which posits that fat gain is a problem of 'sloth'. Certainly the sloth view is more ego fulfilling for people of good health but that doesn't mean its correct.

So in contrast to the eat x amount of calories - and do y amount of exercise and you will lose weight. I am saying let your body take care of itself. Eat the right foods and eat different foods at different times - and your you can right the ship. THis is the theory anyway.

And its actually way more complicated then this. There are tons of hormones that control nutrient partioning. For example its quite possible to take steroids - eat more - and get stronger and leaner WITHOUT working out. This is because the steroids make the fat cells 'giving' and at the same time the muscle cells become very accepting of nutrients and grow.

Hopefully in like six months I can tell you how well it all works in practice :P So far so good..about 12 pounds down for me. But not in like bragging shape yet. :P

I understand the hormonal theory, I have studied it in detail for many years now. I have not seen this view supported in well controlled studies though and I did not experience any advantage with it myself. Even if I am lucky enough to be able to eat more carbs if low carb is better I still should have seen slightly better results from it compared to the higher carb approach. I actually think my bodyfat is lower now on the higher CHO. I really have no proof, just a suspicion. On the higher levels of CHO I should be storing substantially more glycogen and water yet my weight is the same. Possibly I have lost a couple more lbs of fat and replaced it with glycogen/water storage.

A few thoughts:

Protein is key, set your protein levels 1st and build the diet from there. Protein is satiating and preserves LBM. 1 g/lb LBM is a good start.

Once protein is set,there are 3 options to obtaining the rest of your calories.:

High CHO/low fat
High fat/lo CHO
moderate CHO/moderate fat

There are advantages and disadvantages to all 3 choices. Choose the one that has the most advantages and least disadvantages to you and your specific situation. Maybe you need CHO for intense training. Maybe CHO makes you hungry. Maybe you love grits. Maybe you love bacon and sausage. Maybe you aren't sure and need to experiment. There is all different types of people obviously and I don't think only one of these choices is appropriate for everybody. But whatever choice is appropriate for you will work if you:

Make quality food choices and maintain a caloric deficit to achieve weight loss.

That is my dietary advice. Pretty simple and it just MIGHT work :shock:
 
Its a hassle to count calories imo. 10 years ago i was 10 kilos more than now. I got interested in the subject of food and mood, and realized that quick carbs (the toast and honey/jam at breakfast, etc) fatigued me, so I cut down on the sugars and whites. And as a fortunate consequence/biproduct, I started loosing weight, apart from bettering my energy level. And I did not count calories. The weight has stayed of and I am still not counting.
Btw, agree that whole grain also can be a carb challenge, for me anyway. But still better than refined/whites imo.
To explain it visually, I say, if you look at your plate with chicken (proteins), greens and rice (starches/sugars), cut the rice to half, and have more of the greens and proteins. If you want to be more extreme, cut the starches/sugars completely, and you are more or less on the paleotologic (spelling?) diet. I have not gone that way, allthough it is interesting. Just my experience and 2c.
 
It is a lot easier to count calories today compared to ten years ago with the free websites that do most of the work for you.

Btw, if you do a lot of cardio, too low a carb diet can result in kidney issues.
 
Its a hassle to count calories imo. 10 years ago i was 10 kilos more than now. I got interested in the subject of food and mood, and realized that quick carbs (the toast and honey/jam at breakfast, etc) fatigued me, so I cut down on the sugars and whites. And as a fortunate consequence/biproduct, I started loosing weight, apart from bettering my energy level. And I did not count calories. The weight has stayed of and I am still not counting.
Btw, agree that whole grain also can be a carb challenge, for me anyway. But still better than refined/whites imo.
To explain it visually, I say, if you look at your plate with chicken (proteins), greens and rice (starches/sugars), cut the rice to half, and have more of the greens and proteins. If you want to be more extreme, cut the starches/sugars completely, and you are more or less on the paleotologic (spelling?) diet. I have not gone that way, allthough it is interesting. Just my experience and 2c.

It can be a bit of hassle at first counting calories (once you get used to it - took me 2 weeks - its not too difficult, and it has forced me to prepare my own meals and eat out 99% less to make it easier. Now I don't really have to count, I just know), but as you discovered, you can still create a deficit just by eyeballing the amount of food on your plate. To lose those stubborn last few lbs you may need to more accurately track calories, but for general weight loss the visual method is very effective, and its more effective with better quality/more unrefined food choices.

Nice job on your weight loss and keeping it off.
 
shouldn't be giving advice because it MIGHT not work? MIGHT? And telling someone the diet is unrestricted, eat til your full! MIGHT not work either. Maybe you shouldn't be giving advice, it MIGHT not work. I've lost 60 lbs and kept it off, I'm 39, 2 years older than the OP. I've dropped 10 lbs in the last 2 years after losing 50 lbs and keeping that off for 7 years. My experience MIGHT be a good one to share.

Counting calories certainly works - but let's be realistic here. If the OP can meet his goals simply by choosing to ignore sweet foods and cutting down on 'obvious' carbs (eliminating breads, cakes, corn, grains) isn't that alot easier?

I think it is - and studies like the A to Z diet study prove it.

http://jama.ama-assn.org/content/297/9/969.abstract

The OP just wants to lose a few pounds - and very few people have the willpower to maintain any kind of counting calorie diet. The 'failure' rate on diets is 95 percent.
 
> The OP just wants to lose a few pounds - and very few people
> have the willpower to maintain any kind of counting calorie diet.
> The 'failure' rate on diets is 95 percent.

Counting calories is not the same as a counting calorie diet though one is require for the other. Counting calories alone does a few things for you: it shows you the amount of calories in what you are eating and it shows you how much you are eating per day and you can set a target if you wish so that you see what you have remaining.

So just the mere act of tracking can change your behavior.

> Counting calories certainly works - but let's be realistic here. If
> the OP can meet his goals simply by choosing to ignore sweet
> foods and cutting down on 'obvious' carbs (eliminating breads,
> cakes, corn, grains) isn't that alot easier?

Well, you can do A that may work, B that may work or A and B that may work in some additive combination. I really don't think that counting calories is that hard and it would certainly keep one honest about avoiding certain foods if you recorded everything that you eat.

> The 'failure' rate on diets is 95 percent.

It looks like we may have turned the corner.

At any rate, you can't succeed if you don't try.

WASHINGTON, D.C. -- Slightly fewer American adults were obese in 2011 (26.1%) than in 2010 (26.6%) and 2009 (26.5%). This decline was largely offset by a slight increase in the percentage of Americans reporting a normal weight -- increasing to 36.1% last year from 35.4% in 2010 -- while the percentage overweight, but not obese, showed less change.
 
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