Gut4Tennis
Hall of Fame
so the troll actually plays tennis. surprising
Mid-Atlantic Breaking away from USTA like ALTA
- Thread starter Gut4Tennis
- Start date
so the troll actually plays tennis. surprising
Gut4Tennis
Hall of Fame
Hi captains,
Sorry some of you did not get the notice about the meeting yesterday.
But a very good point was made, why doesn't every team just play both leagues. You don't really know what you are going to get as far as a USTA league, but you might as well play so that you get some sort of tennis this spring/summer.
Thank you,
Ingrid
Sorry some of you did not get the notice about the meeting yesterday.
But a very good point was made, why doesn't every team just play both leagues. You don't really know what you are going to get as far as a USTA league, but you might as well play so that you get some sort of tennis this spring/summer.
Thank you,
Ingrid
JRstriker12
Hall of Fame
I'd be sort of frustrated as a captain. It's not like both leagues are free then you have to sign up, schedule players, and make sure you have enough on the roster for two leagues.
If you can do it, good, but if not you will have to make a choice.
downs_chris
Professional
If Ingrid has all the courts -- where will the USTA Nova League matches be played?
dcdoorknob
Hall of Fame
It's become clear that this person didn't really consider these leagues as USTA leagues.
She viewed/views them as her leagues which she has in the past chosen to affiliate with the USTA and thus feels free to dissolve that association and yet keep possession of the leagues, and court times, etc.
I'm sure the USTA powers that be have a different view on the matter.
She viewed/views them as her leagues which she has in the past chosen to affiliate with the USTA and thus feels free to dissolve that association and yet keep possession of the leagues, and court times, etc.
I'm sure the USTA powers that be have a different view on the matter.
Cindysphinx
G.O.A.T.
The mere fact that one's husband is an attorney does not mean he knows what he is doing. There are many legal specialties; he may not know a thing about how to practice in this area or how to defend this sort of lawsuit.
The fact that she is no longer affiliated with USTA but has their logo pasted all over her web site suggests this may not be an especially sophisticated operation. Didn't they terminate their relationship with her months ago?
Again . . . I will fall over dead if USTA was dumb enough to associate itself with this woman and not have a contract with sufficient protections for itself. I mean, think of the onerous contract terms you have to swallow if you want to buy a song on ITunes. And this lady thinks she can waltz off with all of these courts and bring mighty USTA to its knees?
If she is successful, hats off.
schmke
Legend
Let's not go giving the USTA too much credit for being sophisticated then as she is still on the USTA Virginia Web-site listed as a league coordinator with her e-mail address and link to her Web-site.
cknobman
Legend
Interesting to hear how court time is managed in different parts of the country.
Here in my city USTA league in Texas we pick a facility as our "home" and tell the league coordinator.
The league coordinator then creates the schedules for all the teams by coordinating with each teams home facility.
The coordinator or USTA does not pay anything for the courts.
It is up to each team to pay their facility for the scheduled court time.
I've played on several different teams and each facility tends to handle this differently. Some facilities will just let you pay before each match. Some facilities want you to pay upfront for the entire season. Some facilities will let you do a payment plan.
Here paying for USTA court time is entirely up to the team captain and the individual facility. The only thing the USTA coordinator does is create the schedule.
In regards to the OP situation. If I signed up for a USTA team, that is what I expect to play on otherwise give me my money back.
Here in my city USTA league in Texas we pick a facility as our "home" and tell the league coordinator.
The league coordinator then creates the schedules for all the teams by coordinating with each teams home facility.
The coordinator or USTA does not pay anything for the courts.
It is up to each team to pay their facility for the scheduled court time.
I've played on several different teams and each facility tends to handle this differently. Some facilities will just let you pay before each match. Some facilities want you to pay upfront for the entire season. Some facilities will let you do a payment plan.
Here paying for USTA court time is entirely up to the team captain and the individual facility. The only thing the USTA coordinator does is create the schedule.
In regards to the OP situation. If I signed up for a USTA team, that is what I expect to play on otherwise give me my money back.
OrangePower
Legend
Same here in Norcal. The home team is responsible for arranging courts and any associated costs for home matches during the local league season. USTA just organizes the schedule (flights, which teams play which teams, and in what week of the season). Home team is responsible for setting the exact date and time for the match, within the scheduled week. Beyond local league playoffs (i.e. districts and sectionals), the USTA arranges facilities and so on.
I think it's done differently in other areas because it's not as easy to arrange for court time due to cost and scarcity of courts (especially indoors).
JRstriker12
Hall of Fame
Well local coordinators get ideas when leagues become serious cash cows.
For example she may have the local connections and juice to initially get the court reservations and may be betting that teams will play her league rather than face an unknown of not knowing where if a USTA league will play.
Had a similar issue with a guy who ran a local soccer league. IIRC, in the end he was ousted and the county gave the field reservations to someone else who created a new league, but it was a pretty long and drawn out process as the guy was a local soccer "institution."
schmke
Legend
In PNW, or at least the Seattle area, the scheduling is done by the LC with the facilities, and in fact the facilities get information from their members about how many teams there will be and who is captaining so they know how many teams to tell the USTA to schedule for and how many courts they need to set aside for league play. But the schedule is nailed down with specific times prior to the start of play.
Courts are then paid for at the time of the match which usually means the home team doesn't pay anything as it is at their club (unless their membership rules require it, or unless it is a public facility) and the visiting team pays a guest fee.
Cindysphinx
G.O.A.T.
Well, yeah.
Plus, around here many (perhaps even most) USTA teams are not affiliated with a club at all. I have never been a member of any club.
If you decide you want to captain, you sign up to captain and get your players to register for your team. You sit on your hands, and the league eventually gives you a schedule for the season. The matches can be any facility in the county that will sell its excess capacity to the league.
Then the captain collects money from players depending on how many matches each player plays. Players pre-pay for 5 matches, and at the end of the season the captain collects more from players who played more and issues refunds to those who played less. (The league will charge the captain for any fees above what was collectively pre-paid, so captains are motivated to collect!).
Assuming the NOVA indoor team captains already collected their $15 per person per match ($120 a week per team given two singles players and 6 doubles players, x 10 weeks=1,200 x 83 teams=$99,600), where did the money go? Ms. Clark better lawyer up heavy if the NOVA indoor league works like Cindy's and she, as league coordinator, collected even a portion of that much money from playes expecting to play USTA matches (not HCTL).
OrangePower
Legend
I hear you, but many teams here in Norcal are not affiliated with a club either. That just means the captain and team have to arrange for courts themselves. Typically this means working with the parks and recreation department for reserving public park courts, or a school district for using HS courts. Sometimes there is a nominal court usage or reservation fee involved, so every player on the team will chip in $30 or so for the season to cover these costs.
So I think the difference is not that we have a higher ratio of club teams to non-club teams or anything, but that non-club teams here still have reasonable ways to arrange for (outdoor) courts themselves. Whereas that's not the case in your part of the country where indoor courts are involved. (Gotta love California!)
The way we do it is maybe a bit more work and hassle up-front for a new captain to secure courts, but really that's just for a brand-new team starting up, since for subsequent seasons the team will typically keep using the same courts. On the flip side, the captain just needs to collect a single team fee from each player - no need to be a CPA as seems to be the case in your case!
Topaz
Legend
NOVA doesn't work that way. Cindy was discussing a different area.
Why would someone who hasn't broken any contracts need to lawyer up?
Nobody has collected anywhere near that amount of $.
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Topaz
Legend
From the little I've talked to with others about this, and from the letter the USTA president sent out, these things are true:
HCTL has the courts already contracted. USTA gave HCTL an offer to buy those courts. No idea what has come out of that, but since HCTL is planning to go ahead with their own season, then I would imagine that's where those courts are going.
USTA season will most likely be truncated for 18+, and seeing how it already was shortened to allow for multiple 40+ seasons, most people I've talked to are planning to do both leagues, so they actually get to *play* tennis.
Remember, if you're not 40, then USTA in this area has limited your playing options. If you're not 40 and you're a Nationals player, might as well go play golf.
As far as $, in NOVA, captains pay a deposit equivalent to one match's worth of fees to register a team. 8 X $15 = $120 deposit by each team (if they actually made the deposit...if you've captained a long time and built a relationship with HCTL, then that deposit is often waived). If that deposit has been paid and the team remains to play with HCTL, I would imagine that deposit will then go toward that league. The deposit is paid to HCTL, not USTA.
However, many of us already registered on Tennislink, so I have not heard how that money will be returned if we opt to not play USTA.
HCTL has the courts already contracted. USTA gave HCTL an offer to buy those courts. No idea what has come out of that, but since HCTL is planning to go ahead with their own season, then I would imagine that's where those courts are going.
USTA season will most likely be truncated for 18+, and seeing how it already was shortened to allow for multiple 40+ seasons, most people I've talked to are planning to do both leagues, so they actually get to *play* tennis.
Remember, if you're not 40, then USTA in this area has limited your playing options. If you're not 40 and you're a Nationals player, might as well go play golf.
As far as $, in NOVA, captains pay a deposit equivalent to one match's worth of fees to register a team. 8 X $15 = $120 deposit by each team (if they actually made the deposit...if you've captained a long time and built a relationship with HCTL, then that deposit is often waived). If that deposit has been paid and the team remains to play with HCTL, I would imagine that deposit will then go toward that league. The deposit is paid to HCTL, not USTA.
However, many of us already registered on Tennislink, so I have not heard how that money will be returned if we opt to not play USTA.
Topaz
Legend
Cindy, we've discussed this before...but I HATE this method. I hate having to pay $140+ to just register for a team.
And if you don't play your 5 matches, good luck getting that money back. :-|
silentkman
Hall of Fame
It's stunning that tennis is so important. I live in the NOVA area and have played in leagues run by Home Court Tennis in the past. Tennis is an individual and not a team sport. I love the individualism of tennis and I abhor losing. I started playing almost 40 years ago. I wonder if other recreational sports have the same issues. I hope everybody gets what they are looking for.
Gut4Tennis
Hall of Fame
ever heard of doubles??
Ever heard of world team tennis?
Davis cup?
wow man just wow
singles is better for you since you're silentman, as you cant be silent when playing doubles, as you need to communicate
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silentkman
Hall of Fame
ever heard of doubles??
Ever heard of world team tennis?
Davis cup?
wow man just wow
singles is better for you since you're silentman, as you cant be silent when playing doubles, as you need to communicate
Doubles is excluded because you are with your partner. Don't like world team tennis, however I love and admire Billie Jean King. I do like Davis Cup. The point is that tennis is not a team sport like the other team sports. The reality is that Tennis all about singles on the pro tour and for the recreational players is mostly about doubles. You simply can't compare tennis to other team sports.
I appreciate the attack, its amazing that you can't have civil discourse anymore.
I have been playing ALTA for over 35 years so here's some information that may help.
1. go to altatennis.org and you can download league rules and captains packets - lots of good info here
2. ALTA does not arrange courts except for the league finals. It is up to each team to ensure they have 2 (or more) courts available for each league match. This means the league coordinators don't have to fork out money up front.
3. ALTA has an annual membership with dues of $25
4. Adult leagues are offered in several formats: men and women's over 18, mixed over 18, men and women seniors (45+), super seniors (55+), and mixed seniors and super seniors. They also offer junior leagues and singles ladders. All leagues are doubles now but they had a 3 singles/2 doubles format until the mid 80s or so.
5. Alta rates and bumps up or down by team and never bumps an individual player up or down. This sounds like it might not work but it isn't so bad in practice. You sometimes have a 4.5 on B1 team but all in all it works. It allows players to play in their neighborhood and so Joe or Suzy or played college tennis can play with their friends in the 'hood who are a bunch of 4.0 and 3.5 players. make playoffs and you move up one flight, win the city and you move up 2 or more flights by team. The constant movement up or down balances out the competition.
6. Alta has a sandbagging rule that requires that a team play doubles teams in order of strength. Your line 1 should be the best you have to offer and your line 5 should be the weakest team. This is occasionally abused but in general it works too. There are more detailed rules too - like a winning team can only move down 1 line and can not have a losing team go above them. If you split a team, each player can only go up or down 2 lines. If you violate the movement rules, you lose points.
7. They do keep track of players performance during the regular season and assign a score to each player. The team captains must submit playoff lineup for review/approval by the coordinators who look at the players rating. The lower the score the better. If you play line 1 and win all your regular season matches, you will have a score of 1. Play and win all line 2 matches, and you will have a score of 2. You get 1 point for a line 1 win and 1.5 points for a line 1 loss. And then they just take the average to come up with your individual scores. This may not be exact but you get the drift. You playoff lineup must take the individual players ratings into account which prevent drastic sandbagging in the playoffs as you cannot take a player who has won all season at line 1 and drop them to line 3 unless you put him with player who had a really bad score.
8. Alta has a scheduled data/time for each match. You can play early if both captains agree but never late. Rain outs must be made up by the following weeks match.
9. Alta hosts the finals after usually 3 rounds of playoffs at a central location and pays for courts, balls, and has officials overseeing the matches. Nice pewter plates are provided to the winner and runner-up - bigger plate that says winner and smaller plate that says finalist. I have made my plates into hood ornaments for my car and necklace medallions I like to wear - just kidding.
10. Alta is all doubles in adult leagues with best of 3 tie-breaker sets. I wish they would go to champions TB for the 3rd set to avoid 2.5 matches and 6 hours team meets.
By the way, Alta did not break away from the USTA. Alta started league play in this area before the USTA offered leagues. I joined in the late 70s and I think the leagues first were offered in the mid-70s. We didn't have USTA in the area until the 80s. I am not aware of the USTA offering any leagues until after Alta started. If anything, I think the USTA was modeled after Alta.
1. go to altatennis.org and you can download league rules and captains packets - lots of good info here
2. ALTA does not arrange courts except for the league finals. It is up to each team to ensure they have 2 (or more) courts available for each league match. This means the league coordinators don't have to fork out money up front.
3. ALTA has an annual membership with dues of $25
4. Adult leagues are offered in several formats: men and women's over 18, mixed over 18, men and women seniors (45+), super seniors (55+), and mixed seniors and super seniors. They also offer junior leagues and singles ladders. All leagues are doubles now but they had a 3 singles/2 doubles format until the mid 80s or so.
5. Alta rates and bumps up or down by team and never bumps an individual player up or down. This sounds like it might not work but it isn't so bad in practice. You sometimes have a 4.5 on B1 team but all in all it works. It allows players to play in their neighborhood and so Joe or Suzy or played college tennis can play with their friends in the 'hood who are a bunch of 4.0 and 3.5 players. make playoffs and you move up one flight, win the city and you move up 2 or more flights by team. The constant movement up or down balances out the competition.
6. Alta has a sandbagging rule that requires that a team play doubles teams in order of strength. Your line 1 should be the best you have to offer and your line 5 should be the weakest team. This is occasionally abused but in general it works too. There are more detailed rules too - like a winning team can only move down 1 line and can not have a losing team go above them. If you split a team, each player can only go up or down 2 lines. If you violate the movement rules, you lose points.
7. They do keep track of players performance during the regular season and assign a score to each player. The team captains must submit playoff lineup for review/approval by the coordinators who look at the players rating. The lower the score the better. If you play line 1 and win all your regular season matches, you will have a score of 1. Play and win all line 2 matches, and you will have a score of 2. You get 1 point for a line 1 win and 1.5 points for a line 1 loss. And then they just take the average to come up with your individual scores. This may not be exact but you get the drift. You playoff lineup must take the individual players ratings into account which prevent drastic sandbagging in the playoffs as you cannot take a player who has won all season at line 1 and drop them to line 3 unless you put him with player who had a really bad score.
8. Alta has a scheduled data/time for each match. You can play early if both captains agree but never late. Rain outs must be made up by the following weeks match.
9. Alta hosts the finals after usually 3 rounds of playoffs at a central location and pays for courts, balls, and has officials overseeing the matches. Nice pewter plates are provided to the winner and runner-up - bigger plate that says winner and smaller plate that says finalist. I have made my plates into hood ornaments for my car and necklace medallions I like to wear - just kidding.
10. Alta is all doubles in adult leagues with best of 3 tie-breaker sets. I wish they would go to champions TB for the 3rd set to avoid 2.5 matches and 6 hours team meets.
By the way, Alta did not break away from the USTA. Alta started league play in this area before the USTA offered leagues. I joined in the late 70s and I think the leagues first were offered in the mid-70s. We didn't have USTA in the area until the 80s. I am not aware of the USTA offering any leagues until after Alta started. If anything, I think the USTA was modeled after Alta.
To each, their own. I think tennis works quite well as a team sport. I think Cindy's idea is very good with all doubles leagues for adults and an individual singles ladder. Ultimate Tennis flex leagues administer over the internet work quite well for singles and USTA and ALTA type leagues work very well for adult doubles leagues. I have played on my current team for about 7 years now and made good friends. Over 50% of the team has remained constant for all 7 years.
Angle Queen
Professional
Oh my. Let me watch this one from afar.
I am definitely enjoying my personal break from USTA but none of this surprises me. Given the thread title, I was expecting more dirt on the entirety of Mid-Atlantic/MAS and MAS-VA vs. Virginia Tennis (which used to have the 'contract' to 'manage' USTA functions in our fair Commonwealth). That all blew up over the last 18 months and I am not surprised a very big player, all puns intended, has thrown down the gauntlet.
I do know the whole league/court/player/fees thing is very different up in NOVA and imagine many of the nuances of what can or will happen will depend on some of those very real details. I tried, to no avail, to convince some my tennis buddies here that USTA is a business. A very big business. And so is the League Coordination. They are businesses too. Or at least they were. Since the Section took over the District, I'm not sure where any of it stands. And since I like to know where my $$ is going and that I'll have decent representation for/about it, I've chosen to back off. Good riddance.
I continue to feel the Richmond area could flourish even more under an ALTA structure but know the USTA & geographic limitations in the Metro DC/NOVA/MD area might make it more difficult to implement. Condolences to those of you caught up in the mess but I send you my greatest hopes that, in the end, you all have even more competitive playing opportunities.
I am definitely enjoying my personal break from USTA but none of this surprises me. Given the thread title, I was expecting more dirt on the entirety of Mid-Atlantic/MAS and MAS-VA vs. Virginia Tennis (which used to have the 'contract' to 'manage' USTA functions in our fair Commonwealth). That all blew up over the last 18 months and I am not surprised a very big player, all puns intended, has thrown down the gauntlet.
I do know the whole league/court/player/fees thing is very different up in NOVA and imagine many of the nuances of what can or will happen will depend on some of those very real details. I tried, to no avail, to convince some my tennis buddies here that USTA is a business. A very big business. And so is the League Coordination. They are businesses too. Or at least they were. Since the Section took over the District, I'm not sure where any of it stands. And since I like to know where my $$ is going and that I'll have decent representation for/about it, I've chosen to back off. Good riddance.
I continue to feel the Richmond area could flourish even more under an ALTA structure but know the USTA & geographic limitations in the Metro DC/NOVA/MD area might make it more difficult to implement. Condolences to those of you caught up in the mess but I send you my greatest hopes that, in the end, you all have even more competitive playing opportunities.
Cindysphinx
G.O.A.T.
My players who needed refunds received them last week.
Yes, we've discussed this before. Requiring a big payment up front favors captains. Paying by the match favors players.
USTA should favor captains over players every time.
I swear, every time I substitute-captained in NOVA I had to hear, "Oh, I didn't bring any cash, and I don't have any checks. I'll bring it next time."
Ugh.
Angle Queen
Professional
Generally, the same is done around here, except the home team is responsible for any court/guest fees. Think they had to do it that way as we have a true cross-section of facilities, from the highest of high-end country clubs to Park & Rec courts (we are unseemingly blessed with a lot of public, albeit, outdoor courts). I am fortunate that at our club, we do not pay for court time...for personal/intra-club member or league play, nor do we have guest fees for league play. USTA Team registration fees (done through tennislink) removed any money collection responsibility from the captains.
Our non-USTA league has similar court reservation/scheduling procedures but collects the very, very nominal league fee directly from the captains. Because of how our particular club works (no court or guest fees for league play), I owed my captain $14 for the entire 14-week season...and that included balls! Gotta love that. It's run ALTA style, with team relegation so I actually get to play with friends of varying abilities. They have liberal substitution policies and I've had the occasional and incredibly fantastic opportunity to play with much, much better players when they were desperate for subs. Oh sure, there's no Nationals. But we have a very nice end-of-season luncheon that I don't need airfare or hotel reservations to attend.
And maybe, if NoVA gets something like it...we could have an I-95 tournament...in Fredericksburg.
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schmke
Legend
I've often thought this would work better. Our guest fees don't vary that much so it isn't a big deal, but there are a few that cost more and one that does frankly is one of the least desirable to play at which seems out of whack.
Here the league coordinator sets up the sites. No deposit is made. If you play at a club non-members pay before playing. Lots of matches are held at city courts. Those are billed to the captain at the end of the season. If those fees aren't paid no one on the team is eligible to play USTA until the fees are paid.
Cindysphinx
G.O.A.T.
Oh, yuck.
I don't like that at all. I mean, if I join a team and pay my captain my court fees and she snorts it all up her nose, *I'm* banned from USTA?
Under that rule, the league is shifting the burden of collection from itself to the players, who have no power whatever to make sure the captain pays USTA. That is unfair.
Much better is to just assess each player some court fees upon registration. That makes sure the money makes it straight to the league.
After that, it is up to the captain and team to decide how to handle it. The captain/team could decide that everyone pays the same amount (5 matches) regardless of who plays more and who plays less, so there would be no settling up at the end of the season.
I would adopt such a system if I thought I could sell it to my players. Right now, players have no financial incentive to be available -- if they don't play they get their money back. If instead they just lost that money if they didn't play, I think a few folks' schedules would free up.
Cindy -- thinking about institute a requirement that all players must be available for 50% of matches during the season, and failure to do so means you lose your spot on the team
ever heard of doubles??
Ever heard of world team tennis?
Davis cup?
wow man just wow
singles is better for you since you're silentman, as you cant be silent when playing doubles, as you need to communicate
WTT and DC and FC all have singles too. Doubles is not taken seriously by good tennis players.
Yes, it is.
Gut4Tennis
Hall of Fame
dont feed the trolls
Topaz
Legend
AQ!!!! WHere have you beeeeeen?
And maybe, if NoVA gets something like it...we could have an I-95 tournament...in Fredericksburg.
Oh its on! Like Donkey Kong! Just give me six hours to get to Fburg on I-95!
Then schedules will need to be released sooner and they'd have to get rid of the 'we need so many players registered in a wee' thing. Because it isn't like I signed up for Moco thinking I'd only play a few...but when the schedule comes out and a bunch of matches are you know where, and a bunch hit on work dates for me, not much I can do about it.
silentkman
Hall of Fame
Excellent point, I agree 100%. This has always been an issue in NOVA.
Cindysphinx
G.O.A.T.
AQ!!!! WHere have you beeeeeen?
Oh its on! Like Donkey Kong! Just give me six hours to get to Fburg on I-95!
Then schedules will need to be released sooner and they'd have to get rid of the 'we need so many players registered in a wee' thing. Because it isn't like I signed up for Moco thinking I'd only play a few...but when the schedule comes out and a bunch of matches are you know where, and a bunch hit on work dates for me, not much I can do about it.
Rant coming, not at you, Topaz . . .
I am sick to death of players agreeing to play and then backing out when they see the schedule.
I extend 20 offers to fill a roster of 20. I don't extend 22 offers or 28 offers. If a player accepts ane then decides not to play, that leaves me shorthanded.
How would players feel if they committed to the team and the captain told them on the eve of play she no longer had a slot open?
Matches are on week nights over a 12week period. Players, if you can't commit, don't squat on my roster and bail when the schedule looks arduous.
Gut4Tennis
Hall of Fame
honesty is the best policy. tell them this info before they join, cause if you do you will have almost nobody bail
dcdoorknob
Hall of Fame
Not to derail more, but since we've already had a bit of people saying how things are different in different parts of the country...
Here each league runs on the same weeknight each week. This of course means there is only 1 match a week, but it also means it is much easier to get people to be available for most matches, and also roster sizes are much smaller on average. My 18+ 3.5 men's team this spring just finished, we only had 11 people on it but we never defaulted a court. Although I did think 11 was cutting it close, most teams have 12-15 people on them and defaults aren't super common.
Also from what I'm gathering, there are less total matches for each team to play since they tend to break groups up into flights with no more than 10 or 11 teams (and all play each other just once) but as the majority of players on each team get to play each week, that might help bring the average # of matches played for each person back up some.
Here each league runs on the same weeknight each week. This of course means there is only 1 match a week, but it also means it is much easier to get people to be available for most matches, and also roster sizes are much smaller on average. My 18+ 3.5 men's team this spring just finished, we only had 11 people on it but we never defaulted a court. Although I did think 11 was cutting it close, most teams have 12-15 people on them and defaults aren't super common.
Also from what I'm gathering, there are less total matches for each team to play since they tend to break groups up into flights with no more than 10 or 11 teams (and all play each other just once) but as the majority of players on each team get to play each week, that might help bring the average # of matches played for each person back up some.
Cindysphinx
G.O.A.T.
Yes, I understand. But such a system would not work here.
Remember, our league buys whatever time is unsold at the facilities. There might be lots of time on a Tuesday and hardly any on a Friday. So if you promise the 4.0 women that they will always be scheduled on Friday, what are you going to do when you wind up with more teams than can squeeze onto the available Friday slots?
Also, the NOVA day league had dedicated days -- 4.0 women played Tuesdays. Fine, everyone kept Tuesdays open. There were two problems.
When there was a rain make-up on a different day of a week, it was hard to find players.
And if someone had a job where they only got one day off a week, they were shut out completely if that day didn't coincide with the day their level was going to play.
Back to my league . . .
What players need to decide is that they are either in or they're out. Either you are going to participate in an arduous league and be very tired at your job the next day, or you're not. Agreeing to do it and then bailing (or being available for just a couple of matches) is not going to cut it.
JRstriker12
Hall of Fame
I wish we could do that in this area. I might get to play leagues again...
FWIW - I really don't know why Fairfax hasn't built a tennisplex like MoCo. In fact I personally think the number of Fairfax county courts seem to be lacking. At least Montgomery county has about 2 indoor facilities. As far as I can remember, Fairfax has no county run indoor facilities.
Cindysphinx
G.O.A.T.
Montgomery County has at least four indoor public facilities: Fairlands (6), Germantown/Boyds ( 8 ), Cabin John (6) and Wheaton (6).
Fairlands is technically in Prince George's County although I know it is used for the Montgomery County leagues.
dcdoorknob
Hall of Fame
Yeah I think this is the biggest difference. Here, all courts are outdoor courts, and reservations are first come / first served, and in the case of league matches since schedules come out well in advance and matches take place at the same time time and night each week, it is easy for the league matches to be the 'first come' and reserve whatever times they need. Actually there may be a more formal type of agreement between most courts and the USTA, I've not been a captain or anything like that so I wouldn't know.
Sounds like there leagues are just scrounging for the leftover times to get matches in, and that would seem to make things quite a bit more difficult.
The other issues you brought (rain makeups, people who just can't play that night) come up here too, but people just deal with them as best they can, or at least they know not to sign up for a league on a night when they can't play. Overall it still seems like a less strenuous odeal with things set up to have the matches once a week on the same night and time.
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Topaz
Legend
She also might not have a team, since Moco requires a certain number of people to be registered by a certain date.
Then I guess I'll never be able to play for you, since if I'm very tired at my job the next day I might kill someone! :shock:
Topaz
Legend
Now that I do have more flexible work hours, I am favoring the 'set' day a week schedule that we have in NOVA day and DC.
That won't work for evening though, so again, it is nice that there is a mix of options in this area. Hope it stays that way.
Striker, you know there's a mens weekend league?
That won't work for evening though, so again, it is nice that there is a mix of options in this area. Hope it stays that way.
Striker, you know there's a mens weekend league?
forthegame
Hall of Fame
If I could move to the US, I would! You guys seem to have sooooo many options to play tennis, it's unfair!
I still think some of you take it too seriously though, LOL!
I still think some of you take it too seriously though, LOL!
Gut4Tennis
Hall of Fame
Some people show love for something by taking it seriously. no harm, no foul
Sup2Dresq
Hall of Fame
Hits "like" button
If we are talking about different leagues, here in Charlotte I was thrilled to find my club plays three different leagues.
The most serious league is interclub. For a club to be in the interclub league they must have 7 clay courts, as each match is 7 lines of doubles playing concurrently, with a nice lunch offered afterwards. The top 4 flights play on Tuesday mornings, the bottom 4 flights play on Thursdays. Teams that win a flight move up, teams that lose a flight move down. It is organized by the club pros, and players may be moved amongst teams inbetween seasons. There is a spring and fall season.
Second most serious league is Queen City, that is organized like ALTA. I play in the weekday division, which is awesome, as it leaves my evenings and weekends free.
Finally there is USTA, that is basically used as practice matches for the other two leagues. Here there is again a weekday division, so I don't have to play nights or weekends.
What a refreshing change from NorCal.
The most serious league is interclub. For a club to be in the interclub league they must have 7 clay courts, as each match is 7 lines of doubles playing concurrently, with a nice lunch offered afterwards. The top 4 flights play on Tuesday mornings, the bottom 4 flights play on Thursdays. Teams that win a flight move up, teams that lose a flight move down. It is organized by the club pros, and players may be moved amongst teams inbetween seasons. There is a spring and fall season.
Second most serious league is Queen City, that is organized like ALTA. I play in the weekday division, which is awesome, as it leaves my evenings and weekends free.
Finally there is USTA, that is basically used as practice matches for the other two leagues. Here there is again a weekday division, so I don't have to play nights or weekends.
What a refreshing change from NorCal.
Cindysphinx
G.O.A.T.
I understand if someone doesn't feel they can play late night matches.
If they cannot, that is fine. There are lots of good reasons not to play late matches. Just don't sign up for a league with late night matches, then.
I mean, this stuff tends to snowball. One person decides that late matches leave them too tired, so they refuse to be available. That shifts the burden to others, who now must play more than their share of late matches. So then they object and start refusing to play all these late matches.
And then we start defaulting courts.
Sometimes players should look at this stuff from the captain's perspective . . .
