Discussion in 'Strings' started by mikeler, Oct 8, 2010.
It might've. I don't quite remember.
Thanks to Mike, I can confirm that it does albeit not as strong.
Mikeler: have a customer who wants a pretty crisp and spin oriented multi, any suggesstions?
Is price no object? X1, RIP Control, Thunder Blast come to mind.
I liked the spin, pop and comfort I got from RIP. But it moved all over the place so I'd launch a cannonball once in a while. Today I played 1.5 hr of doubles. It was EXTREMELY HOT and humid (for LA anyway). I could feel my gut mains in gut/poly trampolining on hard shots and volleys.
So I switched to my Discho Microfibre (DM) stick at 52lbs. It was more consistent and I had better control on groundstrokes and volleys. However I got less pop on serves and spin on groundstrokes. At 52lbs I had plenty of control so I'm thinking I can go to 50lbs pretty easily on my dropweight CP with DM. This should give me more pop on serves. I can get pretty good amount of spin with DM but it's not as easy to come by as gut/poly or full poly.
Two things that really surprise me are how little DM moves and how durable it is. I'm thinking about hybriding with bhbr16. I loved ogsm/bhbr but it was tough on my arm and snapped in 3 hrs. If I can get 8 hrs out of DM/bhbr and it plays well, it may be a very good setup at $1.10/hr. More predictability than gut/poly and more comfort than syngut/poly.
The DM will start moving eventually. For the first 8 hours it does not move a whole lot but then after that it starts going all over the place. I still have only broken it once on a shank. All the other times, I cut it out because it looks like swiss cheese around the 15 hour mark.
I think I'll test out the white Genesis Thunder Blast tonight.
Good 18g multi for main
Mikeler: I am currently using full bed 17g string on my 18 x 20 racket. I want to put more spin and I am thinking of putting a thinner gauge like 18g on the crosses. What good 18g multi do you recommend? If I have a tension of say 50 lbs for the 17g, what's the tension for the 18g also on the mains assuming it is the same string? Also, I am not a string breaker. Hope you could give advise.
I mean on the "mains".
I've never used an 18g string, so I really don't know what to tell you. I've only used a few 17g strings. Check out post #1 of this thread for all the multis I've tried.
I played 5 sets last night with the new white Genesis Thunder Blast 16. The first 2 sets were singles against a left hander on clay in the wind. The last 3 sets were doubles with all right handers on a hard court under the lights at a different club with light wind. So I got to test it under 2 very conditions. BTW, I strung it at 60 pounds for an apples to apples comparison with the black version.
The white version is definitely softer than the black. It still has that crisp feel though. I don't think it is quite as good as net as the black version but I liked it better on all other shots. The strings do move around like crazy but that is the case with most multis. This is another string that could benefit from a slightly lower tension I think since it is low powered with lots of control. I have 1 more set left. If Bad Call does not take it, I may try stringing it up at 54# to compare it with the DM at the equivalent tension.
I forgot to mention that I used RacquetTune to measure tension loss. I got 8.4% loss with no play a few days after stringing and 9.6% after last night. That is pretty good for a multi.
I hope you would test a few 18g strings in the future. It would truly be a good help for us 18g users. Thank you for the reply.
I don't see myself using 18g multi strings anytime in the near future. They are not durable enough for me and I don't really like the feel of the balls coming off thinner strings. It seems like the lower gauges have more spring too which I don't like.
just for fun, what string would you say has the best durability, and what one does not?
I found Klip Legend natural gut to be about twice as durable as the best multis, which justifies the price for me.
Most durable multi? - RIP Control, Discho Microfibre, Prince Premier Attack, and Kirschbaum Touch Multifiber will last me between 10-12 hours. I'll give the edge to KTM because after 10 hours RIP and DM get mushy and PPA gets stiff. KTM is playable for a longer time. I'm only talking about 16 gauge.
Least durable multi? - Mantis Comfort Synthetic. It breaks in about 4-5 hours with no warning. Also, NXT gets honorable mention for least durabilty for the price.
Hey Mikeler! Tomorrow morning I am going to pick up 2 PK Ki5 315 racquets and have to decide how to string them for max comfort and playability. My arm is getting better slowly, so I still have to baby it with soft strings. I was thinking to either do full bed of XCel 16 or splurge and do a hybrid between VS Touch 16 and XCel 16. People say to string the Ki5 on the lower side. What would you string the Ki5 315 at with XCel 16 full bed, and in a VS/XCel hybrid? I usually ask for the crosses to be 2 lbs. lower than the mains and ask for the 4 knot method to keep the difference between the mains and crosses. So what do you think?
Agree with your most durable list except for KTM which is prone to shanking. Also not very durable are Tecnifibre MultiFeel, Dunlop Hexy Fiber and Tecnifibre Duramix.
I'm too lazy to look at the specs of your racket. I think 60 is always a good starting point for a multi and then adjust from there.
Well, I tried Discho Microfibre in full bed at 52lbs. I also tried DM/bhbr16 at 52/48. DM full bed is very comfortable (of course gut is even more so), has excellent control and feel. The only thing lacking was the heavy spin I get from full poly or gut/poly. So I tried DM/bhbr. Very nice pocketing, pop, control and spin. It was more comfortable than ogsm/bhbr. But after 1 hr of hard hitting, I can already foresee its death (DM breakage.) It may last another couple of hours but I doubt it will get past 3-4 hours.
So gut/poly is still king for me. TonicBF/Ltec 4s at 55/50 gives me very good comfort, spin, weight of shot, control, feel, etc. The only problem is it's been hot and humid these days and Tonic gut mains snapped on a flat serve at 4 hrs of singles and 3 hrs of doubles, which is not a lot of time. Gut/bhbr would probably cut the string lifetime by 30%-50%.
I also tried full gut. It is so comfortable and feels amazing, like butter. It's like DM + more comfort + better feel. But it's expensive and still doesn't generate spin like gut/poly and full poly. In doubles I'm fine with either full gut or full DM. But in singles with heavy baseline bashing, the spin from gut/poly is essential for me.
If you want to get away from the poly portion, it may be worthwhile to give Volkl Gripper a try. Then again, if your body isn't telling you 'no poly' like a lot of us, then stick with what works.
Keep track of how long your full gut setup lasts. You might be surprised at how economical it really is.
If my arm could handle it, I'd be using full poly. Since that's not the case I've gone gut/poly. But my elbow and wrists are sensitive to even gut/poly sometimes. Multi/poly is a little worse and I've given up on syngut/poly due to arm pain and having to restring every 3 hours. So I do want to get away from poly if possible.
I've used Rip Control 16 and it was pretty comfortable, and had good spin for a multi. Not quite poly spin but not bad at all. How does Gripper compare to Rip Control in terms of power, control and especially spin?
I wouldn't be surprised if full gut lasts longer than other setups and winds up being a great value considering its performance and longevity. However in singles I need that extra dipping topspin that gut/poly and full poly generate. I'm a completely different player with gut/poly's spin/control/angle.
I've changed my game to try and hit through the ball more so I'm not just trying to put super spin on the ball anymore. That is probably why I'm jiving with DM right now.
It's a fun way to hit. I'm assuming that the ball has lower net clearance than before but results in the ball jumping toward your opponent's upper torso now rather than over them?
I'm pretty sure I hit the same way and that's the result I usually get. The best part is I can attempt to adjust how much rotation I get with the WW motion to change the direction of the ball. Can't say it goes too well though.
I hear what you're saying. I like poly too except for the arm thing. I've pretty much decided that my game will have to rely on some type of non-poly setup. It's like dropping a bad habit, I guess. After a while, you don't miss it.
There are still a few hybrid type setups I will try in order to see if I get anything with more spin than full gut without hurting my arm (I've got way too many spare sets of strings). However, if they don't work out, I won't be too upset.
Played 2 sets of singles with DM followed by 2 sets with Thunder Blast (white). I'd be curious to test Thunder Blast at 54# but I still think DM would win out by a little bit. The new white Thunder Blast is definitely a nice multi.
Hey Mikeler, do you think the margin by which DM edges out TB is worth the $2.50 price difference? Also, does TB natural play differently than TB black? I have a few sets of TB with a set of DM on the way (backordered), so I can't compare the two just yet. Was curious about your impression/opinion, however.
You need to factor in the shipping costs when you analyze the price difference. DM has free shipping with no minimum order and I usually get strings from them in 2 days. I would say the price is practically the same.
The pack price is cheaper with ThB but the reel price is cheaper with DM. That is interesting that DM is on backorder. I'm glad I'm stocked up for now!
Check out my post at the top of the page for a comparison of the black and white ThB. I like the white better.
K, and I take it you're referring to Micronite when referring to DM in a reel, correct? If so, where are you seeing it cheaper?
Also, read the update on the ThB white.
HERE are the few I've tried and my findings for multis. The gist, imo Gripper is more comfortable, about the same spin wise and a bit more powerful, but is more consistent. RIP seemed to randomly trampoline a shot now and again for me. I went away from the hybrids to protect my shoulder and wrist.
My offical time for Klip Legend 16 is 32 hours! What's truly amazing for me is that it played well the entire time, and I even kept it in the closet for 2 months while my shoulder was healing. The only thing for me that plays better than natural gut is poly hybrids. I might try to experiment with some next after my shoulder feels better.
It was a DM reel. Had to get it thru Ray directly.
That is crazy durability!
I cant find it on the website
I had a short experience hitting w/ DM today. It is indeed comfortable and played well at the net. I don't perceive a big difference in spin compared to other multis. This isn't a negative on the string as I didn't expect it to immediately stand out as "superior!"
Overall, I'd say I liked Pro's Pro's Tornado for the first few hours (the spin did stand out in the first 2-3hrs) and Pro's Pro Hitech for comfort. I also tried Tecnifibre Multifeel and immediately disliked the feel (though objectively hit the ball well). I could be fine with either Hitech or DM(if Ray gets reels in soon.) I'd sent him an email and he said he'd let me know when they are in stock.
From what I've read DM retains it playing characteristic which is key for me. I'd really like to use Gut, but am traumatized from having gut snap during stringing! Looking down at the racquet and the lifeless strings, I felt like I had just taken a $20 out of my wallet and ripped it up...
Dear Mikeler! I am using currently b5e/thb hybrid and like it very much. I bought ThB while I was in USA and running out of it currently. Here it is not available, but I have good access to signum pro and gamma strings. What you may recommend instead?
Another question that if I can get ThB shall I go for new white one for hybrid or stay with black?
And one more, I have a reel of tour bite and spiky shark, what do you think when I am out of b5e, what is better to use instead out f these two mentioned above.
$20 is probably still considered a "cheap" natural gut string so you are taking a risk. Did you contact the supplier to see if you could get a replacement set?
I like the white version of ThB better. It will definitely soften up the stringbed more than the black. Plus, it does not bleed black marks all over the ball. I've never used Tour Bite or Spiky Shark so I can't comment on that.
Well I said $20 b/c it snapped during the mains, the price for the set was $40ish; it was a respected source of Gut not one of these transient **** dealers (auction site not the Fword).
I actually didn't consider returning or complaining about the string. I used the remaining half as either a hybrid and I think I put it in the crosses b/c I didn't want to run short or risk snapping it again on the mains!
I can see why you are discouraged with it after paying that much.
tried ppa based on mikes review and I have to say I was pretty disappointed. My go to strings are typically pacific gut/Hyperion or Hyperion/nrg2. This time I used Hyperion/ppa. Less spin, power and control. Luckily the price wasn't too bad.
Disappointed you haven't tried these mikeler. They would suit you ;-)
Sorry Torres, I don't do solid core.
You must be careful using mikeler's reviews as a guide to hybrids.
They are based on fullbed only.
Except for Thunderblast.
This is a better thread for multi crosses:
On the recommendation of this fine message thread, I bought a couple sets of Thunderblast for my Dunlop Bio 400 Tours. One full bed at 60 and one hybrid with Focus Hex at 53/57.
I use a Gamma x-2 machine and did not pre stretch the TB when I strung the frames. I found that with the string stretching while pulling tension there was between 3 and 5 feet left over from each 20 foot piece (depending upon main or cross use) that I used. Has anyone else had this experience?
Buying a reel (now that I like the string) has become an even more attractive proposition now that I know I can cut 15-foot lengths from the reel and have plenty for a hybrid cross and almost be able to cut as little as 33 feet for a full bed.
Thanks to all for the good advice and reviews!
Did you buy the newer white version? It did seem to stretch more than the black but not as much as you describe.
I tried the black because I think I ordered it just a couple days before the white became available.
The white is softer. I like it better but it still aggravated my sensitive arm some.
Separate names with a comma.