Mixed 8.0
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Bdarb
Hall of Fame
You'll play "3.5" women and strong 4.5 guys. Generally 4.5 guys can dictate the match by not hitting to you or taking advantage of your partners serve. Get your volleys on point, at districts that was the biggest difference between strong dubs and weak, both partners were very good at net.
Ime anyway.
anubis
Hall of Fame
I played 8.0 mixed this year and it was the worst league I've ever experienced. My final record was 1-7. I'm a middling 3.5 and I was partnered with weak 3.5 women the whole time. Mostly played strong 4.0 guys with 4.0 women.
I wouldn't consider playing it again until I'm a 4.0 myself some day. I wouldn't mind playing with a 4.5 woman, but those are just so hard to find nowadays in my area.
I don't mind losing in a fair fight... but...
Why would you bring a 7.0 team to an 8.0 match and have any expectation other than to get beat ?
you two should find a 7.0 team next year (if neither gets bumped) and your record will probably be 7-1
Playing my first year of 8.0 mixed. You will have your normal teams and your strong teams.
As mentioned above your strong teams will have strong 4.5 guys paired with above average 3.5 girls and the guys will attempt to dominate the game.
Yaz
Rookie
Mixed 8.0 is an interesting league. I played a few seasons as a 4.5 and these are just my opinions only. I don't think you'll see a huge number of sandbagging 4.5s, as most of the ones I know don't enjoy playing 8.0.
The gap in skill between a typical 4.5 male and 3.5 female is huge. The 3.5 female may defer too much to the male, no matter how much you encourage her to go after shots. It's tough to rush the net because it's not too difficult to get a ball over the head or past the female and once that happens you're toast. So, you end up playing in no man's land in order to cover as much court as possible.
In my experience the best teams have always been 2 solid 4.0s because both can "handle" the 4.5s pace and spin. Even if it's just for a few shots, usually it's enough to eventually direct the ball to the 3.5f. Even a strong 4.5 (not saying I am one, but again just my opinion) will have trouble dominating a solid 4.0 pair. But, if you're a 4.5m and you're lucky enough to have a very strong 3.5f that's probably going to get bumped you're not going to lose too many matches. I came across a team like that in playoffs and we got clobbered.
Good luck!
JRstriker12
Hall of Fame
One fun pairing I had at 8.0 was playing with a 4.5 woman as a 3.5. I usually played singles at 3.5 and got bumped the following season so we were a fairly strong team.
However, if we ran up against combo with a 4.5 guy in it, it was usually a tight match but the 4.5 guy could generally dictate play.
However, if we ran up against combo with a 4.5 guy in it, it was usually a tight match but the 4.5 guy could generally dictate play.
chatt_town
Hall of Fame
Depending on how big the league is I suspect at least one 3.5 woman will get her head spun around at the net and start crying. At least one minimum.
At least one minimum.
anubis
Hall of Fame
Why would you bring a 7.0 team to an 8.0 match and have any expectation other than to get beat ?
you two should find a 7.0 team next year (if neither gets bumped) and your record will probably be 7-1
I wasn't the captain, I'm at his or her mercy when it comes to who I'm paired with.
Also another thing to keep in mind: if anyone is considering to play 8.0 mixed, look at the roster first. see how many potential pairings add up to 8.0. If the captain has fielded a roster that is 7.5 or worse, then I'd suggest finding another team to play on.
Unless, of course, you're in it just to hit and have fun. Then more power to you! But if you want to make it to the championships... I guess it's all a matter of perspective.
I played 8.0 mixed for the first time this winter with a friend of my wife who is 3.5 (so we are a 7.5 team). The first match was like two weeks after I got back from nationals in November and I was still physically and mentally exhausted, neither of us had ever played doubles before, and I don't think she had played doubles of any kind in at least 20 years. We got double bageled in that one, but we practiced a couple times after that (and my body/mind recovered over time...), and we won the rest of our matches. It was fun. I think we'll do it again next winter.
goober
Legend
My experience has been the opposite. All the top teams had strong 4.5 M paired with a 3.5F who could usually volley. I did some stats for several seasons in the league I was in. 4.5M/3.5F won 80 % of the time against a 4.0/4.0 pair. The only losses came when the 4.0m was at the top of his level and the 4.5m on the other team was a low end of 4.5. In this case having a solid 4.0 f made a big difference. But if you had a top end 4.5m the result was almost always a win against a 4/4 team.
D
dblsplayer
Guest
Format Needs to Change
I see this as a huge problem with combined mixed (7.0, 8.0, 9.0). USTA does not allow a 1.0 differential when playing women's or men's leagues. But for some reason, they allow a 3.5 woman to play against a 4.5 man in combined mixed; this isn't fair or fun and could be unsafe.
Another thing I see at some clubs is, the 4.5 guys will play with 3.5 ladies and now the 4.0 guys won't play, so they go to the 7.0 teams and play with 3.0 ladies. This is fine for social/club events but c'mon, how can a 4.5, or 4.0 guy think this is competitive.
All USTA has to do is change Mixed leagues to single ratings, (3.0-4.5). If like in all other seasons, a player wants to play .5 up, great, at least this won't allow players to play down a level.
I see this as a huge problem with combined mixed (7.0, 8.0, 9.0). USTA does not allow a 1.0 differential when playing women's or men's leagues. But for some reason, they allow a 3.5 woman to play against a 4.5 man in combined mixed; this isn't fair or fun and could be unsafe.
Another thing I see at some clubs is, the 4.5 guys will play with 3.5 ladies and now the 4.0 guys won't play, so they go to the 7.0 teams and play with 3.0 ladies. This is fine for social/club events but c'mon, how can a 4.5, or 4.0 guy think this is competitive.
All USTA has to do is change Mixed leagues to single ratings, (3.0-4.5). If like in all other seasons, a player wants to play .5 up, great, at least this won't allow players to play down a level.
schmke
Legend
I don't disagree with your recommendation, but the USTA does actually allow 1.0 differential in Senior/55+ and other combo leagues, so mixed being a "combo" league is consistent with that.
But I'd change the recommendation to still keep it a combo league but just require that doubles pairings be at adjacent levels (0.5 differential). I'd actually be ok with the female being 1.0 above the male, but some may not like the asymmetry with having a special clause like that.
The fundamental issue is that a 4.0 man and 4.0 women are not at equivalent skill levels. It is generally accepted that there is about a 0.5 difference between men and women, such that a 4.0 women is at a similar skill level to a 3.5 man, so by allowing a 1.0 difference with the male being the higher level, it is effectively a 1.5 rating or really 3 level difference. This is where it isn't consistent with the Senior/55+ or other combo leagues that are just men or women.
So another solution would be to have a universal rating, not one for men and one for women. Then a 4.0 is a 4.0 regardless of gender and a 1.0 difference would probably be ok.
--
NTRP Ratings FAQ
D
dblsplayer
Guest
Agreed, USTA should lose all leagues (combos) where a player can play down
dizzlmcwizzl
Hall of Fame
I think you will have fun ... I really enjoy mixed.
I think the most successful pairing occur when the guy controls the court. That could be a big serving 4.0 or a solid 4.5. To often control oriented 4.5s struggle at 8.0 mixed as they are not used to dominating the court and finishing points.
Additionally women that can volley are at huge premium. I don't care whether you are a 3.5, 4.0, or 4.5 ... If you can volley I will enjoy playing with you.
I think the most successful pairing occur when the guy controls the court. That could be a big serving 4.0 or a solid 4.5. To often control oriented 4.5s struggle at 8.0 mixed as they are not used to dominating the court and finishing points.
Additionally women that can volley are at huge premium. I don't care whether you are a 3.5, 4.0, or 4.5 ... If you can volley I will enjoy playing with you.
Cindysphinx
G.O.A.T.
I think that in mixed, everyone should have to be at the correct level.
Only 4.0s (and below) should be allowed to play 8.0 mixed.
Only 3.5s (and below) should be allowed to play 7.0 mixed.
I usually have fun, competitive matches in 8.0 mixed when I have two 4.0 opponents. When I have a 4.5 guy across the net, the match is not as fun.
Only the very strongest 3.5 women (i.e. women who are really 4.0 but who didn't get bumped up for some reason) get onto 8.0 mixed teams. That means you wind up with a mid-level to strong 4.5 guy with a strong 3.5. Two 4.0s will struggle against that combo.
Only 4.0s (and below) should be allowed to play 8.0 mixed.
Only 3.5s (and below) should be allowed to play 7.0 mixed.
I usually have fun, competitive matches in 8.0 mixed when I have two 4.0 opponents. When I have a 4.5 guy across the net, the match is not as fun.
Only the very strongest 3.5 women (i.e. women who are really 4.0 but who didn't get bumped up for some reason) get onto 8.0 mixed teams. That means you wind up with a mid-level to strong 4.5 guy with a strong 3.5. Two 4.0s will struggle against that combo.
dcdoorknob
Hall of Fame
I still think if they set up mixed where the woman has to be 0.5 levels above the man (e.g. 7.5 mixed with a 4.0 woman and 3.5 man on each team) would be the most fun.
AtomicForehand
Hall of Fame
USTA does have offer combo mixed. It's big in our area. 5.5 through 9.5 or 10.5 levels. Ever thought about starting a combo mixed league in your area?
Nostradamus
Bionic Poster
there are lots of 4.5 guys in there, that is true and 3.5 women who doesn't make silly mistakes and just fairly consistent. that works really well but sometimes it doesn't come out fair. There has to be a way to make this league more even match so team is more even
dcdoorknob
Hall of Fame
I've never heard of it. I don't think it's offered here, and I don't personally have any sort of connections to start any sort of USTA league on my own, the best I could hope for would be to aim an email at the right person about it I think. Does the woman have to be 0.5 above the man by rule, unless playing up, in these leagues?
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Cindysphinx
G.O.A.T.
We have it here, in the late summer.
It is not my favorite kind of mixed. As a 4.0, I do not feel ready for 8.5 mixed combo, so that leaves 7.5. I have to play with a 3.5 guy, and that is kind of weird. They can be really inconsistent and powerful at the same time, which is scary.
I may try again later this summer, maybe.
OrangePower
Legend
Completely agree. I have been quite disparaging of Mixed league around here. Much as I enjoy the social aspects of being on a mixed team, the quality of the tennis is just not good. At least 75% of the time, the guy is significantly stronger than the woman, enough so as to warrant abnormal shot selection when playing against the pair.
This makes so much sense. Which of course means that the USTA will never consider it
dcdoorknob
Hall of Fame
8.5 mixed, would that be with a 4.5 male partner? If so, it's still not really what I'm advocating. I want a league where the woman is required to be 0.5 higher than the male on all courts. Like in that 7.5 league, by rule the woman can have up to a 4.0 rating, and the man can only have up to a 3.5 rating.
Sorry you don't care for the 7.5, but one of my personal best tennis experiences was a non-usta mixed gender doubles ladder where I ended up on court with other 3.5 guys and 4.0 women most weeks. It wasn't so much mixed doubles as it was where gender wasn't even considered, and you ended up on court with other people of either gender that were evenly matched with you overall. It was the most competitive and fun mixed-gender tennis I've played.
chatt_town
Hall of Fame
What area is this and how would the different ratings translate at nationals? I ask because I'm about to play a 8.0 mixed league here. We will have a state and I assume a sectionals and nationals. Is this usta Cindy?
This makes so much sense. Which of course means that the USTA will never consider it
This only works when there are a theoretical unlimited supply of players in both genders at each level. Around here, there wouldn't be enough 4.0 or higher women to even have a league at these levels. I played 8.0 mixed and I was able to overpower 4.5 women as a 4.0.
OrangePower
Legend
I think you're saying that you're for the status quo because if you as a 4.0 male could only play mixed with women who are at the same absolute level as you, then you don't think there would be enough women to make this work? You postulate that you are at or above the level of what is currently considered a 4.5 woman. So you'd only be able to play mixed with what are now high 4.5 or 5.0 women, of which there aren't many.
Ok, but under the status quo, if you think you a 4.0 male is stronger than a 4.5 woman, what do you imagine to be the gap between a 4.5 male and a 3.5 woman? How is that imbalance in any way conducive to good tennis?
As an aside, I think you might be underestimating women players. I regularly hit with a 5.0, and she gives me a run for my money (I'm a middle of the road 4.5 male). And I know several 4.5 women who I'd put money on vs the average 4.0 in singles. In general I think the gap is about 0.6 NTRP.
I mean, yes, from what I've seen, you'd probably need at least good 4.5 level women to equal the men's 4.0. The ratio of 4.0 men to women who play at a men's 4.0 level is probably 10:1. How can you make mixed teams with that imbalance?
So, you're kind of stuck with the status quo with a weaker woman partner. I guess it might make sense to restrict 4.5 man - 3.5 woman pairings because of the extreme imbalance, but otherwise, there's not a lot else you can do and also sustain a league.
AtomicForehand
Hall of Fame
If the higher-level women are more at a premium, they'll be more in demand and get a little more respect. Also, it would encourage more women to try to step up and fill the void at the higher levels.
AtomicForehand
Hall of Fame
Why not 4.5 women to even with 4.0 men?
Again, it's just an availability issue. There are tons more 4.0 men than 4.5 women. It would be very difficult to construct teams that have to be more or less 50-50 with that kind of imbalance.
I don't get some of these complaints. If you want to play doubles where the players are all on an equal footing, play mens doubles.
Mixed is almost always going to involve a weaker female partner and a stronger male. Making it work is the essence of mixed, not complaining that your partner is no good.
I have played and seen plenty of open doubles with 5.0 or better men and 4.0 women. Like LeeD said, if the woman can volley and maybe return a few serves, she can contribute.
Mixed is almost always going to involve a weaker female partner and a stronger male. Making it work is the essence of mixed, not complaining that your partner is no good.
I have played and seen plenty of open doubles with 5.0 or better men and 4.0 women. Like LeeD said, if the woman can volley and maybe return a few serves, she can contribute.
AtomicForehand
Hall of Fame
At the lower levels of mixed, the team with the stronger man usually wins.
At the upper levels, the team with the stronger woman does.
At the upper levels, the team with the stronger woman does.
Combo Mixed is a USTA league in many areas. It's combined rating odd numbers (5.5, 6.5, 7.5, 8.5, 9.5) rather than even (6.0, 7.0, etc.). It's the mixed version of Combo Doubles, which is a very popular USTA league. Combo Doubles and Combo Mixed usually do not count toward year end ratings. That may depend on the Section. Most doubles partners are .5 rating difference, but it can be up to 1.5 in some Sections. I like the format, because I like playing with 4.0 men at 8.5 level. And it's fun to play with some 5.0 men at 9.5 level.
