Mixed doubles ladies complaining about ball being hit near them

Discussion in 'Adult League & Tournament Talk' started by Powderwombat, Mar 3, 2018.

  1. Dartagnan64

    Dartagnan64 Legend

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    I think mixed is best at 6.0-7.0 then sucks at 8.0 and starts to get better at 9.0 again. Anything where you can have a 4.5 male hitting at a 3.5 lady is going to suck.
     
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  2. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    At nationals on the day of the semis/finals they have this round robin section showdown thing for all the losers to play for fun.

    Long story short, at 9.0 mixed nationals I played a lefty 5.0 guy, and he hit his first serve about 115mph 4' long to my 4.0 partner. As he stepped up to the line to hit his second, I was like oh, this isn't going to be pretty.

    After my partner failed to make contact with the ball she says to me as I'm walking back to return "I've never seen anything like that in my life."

    J
     
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  3. Traffic

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    It'll be interesting when I play 6.0 mixed. I find that a 3.5 female has trouble with my kicker. A good 3.5 will return it smartly. But 3.0s have a tough time. Rather than a flat 1st serve, I just go with my kicker. It causes enough trouble for them, it's a high percentage for me, and if there are any questions, "it's my 2nd sever" should be a get out of jail card.

    Since the male should be 3.0, there is no need for me to attack the net player. Just keep hitting cc shots and wait for an UE.
     
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  4. LGQ7

    LGQ7 Professional

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    I go by the boxing rule: protect yourself, at all times.

    The ball goes anywhere it goes.
     
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  5. NTRPolice

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    The problem with "high level" 6.0 and 7.0 tennis is that there are people who can hit really, really hard, and cant control it like a solid 4.0+ could. This is why you can have 100+ mph shots that could go anywhere. I've seen a 3.0 guy try to crank a serve that almost beaned someone on an adjacent court. Just imagine this same guy trying to put away a sitter at the net in 6.0 against two clueless 3.0's who dont realize they should at least turn around if they see this guy coming.

    With that said, there are still 4.0 and 4.5 women who will complain about you hitting in their "general direction", so I dont really think it's about "skill level" more so than "temperament". I personally like to crack backhands at the net person if im playing the deuce side every few returns if they are targeting my backhand. If it's mixed and it's a female at net, then oh well. I've beaned people like that before, but it's just part of the game. It's a legit shot, and it's not like im taking a sitter and intentionally beaning someone with a ball I could easily put away somewhere else.

    In 6.0 and 7.0 "social tennis" you might wanna be careful with the direction of the ball. It's generally not socially acceptable to hit at the ladies when you're playing for fun, the same way you probably dont want to drop shot or lob senior citizens either.
     
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  6. PK6

    PK6 New User

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    If ball is hit to hard they shouldn’t be on court not playing.
     
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  7. Dartagnan64

    Dartagnan64 Legend

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    I don't see a lot of those types playing mixed. Probably because they've got in trouble for beaning people before. Mixed is a great social experiment that tends to weed out the bashers and the socially uncouth. At least that's how it works at our club. In club tennis you can be blackballed pretty easily, so you may not see the same social evolution in USTA.
     
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  8. Moveforwardalways

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    Funny how everyone thinks the “best” mixed doubles happens to be the level they play at. Hmm...
     
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  9. Dartagnan64

    Dartagnan64 Legend

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    Best mixed doubles is the open level at our club. Does that mean I’m suddenly an open level player?
     
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  10. NTRPolice

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    I think there are two major separations. Moderately skilled players know the best tennis is either at their level or higher. Lower level players know the best tennis is at their level or lower. Examples: A 4.0 might think 5.0+ tennis is amazing to watch and probably wont want to play with players significantly below them because it wont be fun. A 3.5 might think anyone who is better than them takes the game too seriously, and the best tennis is casual, sociable, tennis with players equal to or below their skill level.
     
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  11. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    If it's best at my level my heart goes out to everyone at the other levels.

    J
     
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  12. OrangePower

    OrangePower Legend

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    I think the best mixed dubs is where the guys are at the level I play at, and the women at the next higher level.
     
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  13. Dartagnan64

    Dartagnan64 Legend

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    I think that is the key.

    The corollary is that the worst mixed doubles is where the guy is 1.0 NTRP higher than the woman. Men learn to protect themselves from 3.0 on, whereas women don't even think about it until upper 3.5 levels. So it's always best to get more advanced ladies in the mix. Sadly, the world of club tennis is dominated by billions of 3.0-low 3.5 ladies. It's a mad scramble to scoop up the few good 3.5-4.0 ladies to join your mixed group.
     
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  14. OrangePower

    OrangePower Legend

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    Agreed.
    Unfortunately, it's hard to find 5.0 ladies. So as a 4.5 male, I rarely ever play mixed.
    I do sometimes play with a friend (4.5 male), and his wife and her friend (5.0 ladies). It's good tennis and a lot of fun.
     
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  15. Dartagnan64

    Dartagnan64 Legend

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    Yes if I was 4.5 I'd probably rarely play mixed. At 3.5 it's not too hard to get some of the better 3.5 ladies to play with you as they find facing a man's serve at that level good practice for tournaments and such. I try to play as much on clay as I can with the women since it evens the playing field a bit more.

    I have a couple male 3.0 friends whose wives are 4.0-4.5 and playing mixed with them is interesting as "hitting to the woman" no longer works as a valid strategy.
     
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  16. NTRPolice

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    A 3.0 male with a 4.0 female is much better than a 4.0 male and a 3.0 female. You mentioned 7.0 being safe, but I have to disagree there. There are some younger 4.0's here who can hit 100 mph serves 70 mph ground strokes. Not consistent, but still. A 3.0 female has no chance against a 100 mph serve or overhead, or a ground stoke that's going 70 straight at them. At least a 3.0 guy, if he's athletic, might be able to turn around, or cover his junk and put his racket over his face. I've seen some 3.0 girls stand there like a deer in headlights when a guy is about to pound a ball right at them.

    When the female is higher than the males then the match plays more naturally. There's a 5.0 girl here who we play with once in a while (she plays 2H both sides) and she has this weird combination where her height plus her strokes always make it seem... like she's hitting right at my throat... lol... Head? You can duck. Body? You can block. Throat? Very awkward.
     
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  17. Dartagnan64

    Dartagnan64 Legend

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    The big problem is the USTA NTRP is totally skewed to give lower skilled women an higher ranking than they likely should have. If a 3.0 was truly a 3.0 then gender shouldn't matter. All 3.0's should be on equal footing. Then you wouldn't see these discrepancies.

    I agree that no 3.0 women should play with a 4.0 male as many women do not really learn self preservation before 3.5 in my experience.

    If you knocked every women's USTA ranking down a 0.5 level you'd see a lot more even distribution of skills in mixed and the general dictum of "hit at the woman" would apply less. Of course I'd buy popcorn to watch the show if someone in the USTA actually suggested that.
     
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  18. NTRPolice

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    Posted in the wrong thread, lol.

    Mods can delete if they so desire!
     
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  19. Topspin Shot

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    I did not invite you to the net.

    --Ivan Lendl
     
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  20. OnTheLine

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    I played my first ever mixed league match yesterday. Previously said I was not interested in playing mixed, but got cajoled into it. Playing 8.0, was supposed to have a 4.5 partner (I am 3.5) but schedules were messy so played with a 4.0 male against a 4.0 male and 4.0 woman. (everyone on court was C rated)

    Had a blast, my partner was super chill ... and we won handily (2&3). We broke 4.0 male's serve once in the first set (and his partner's naturally) and he was mumbling and talking to himself. I did not find his hard flat serve (to the T on deuce) difficult to return at all. Did not find his kick serve difficult either, when he finally switched to a slice, I struggled for a bit before resorting to chipping it. I held my serve in the first set, but not the 2nd set. I am not accustomed to losing my serve ... that is something to work on.

    After my one experience, I was thinking about this thread and can't figure out what you all are talking about.

    If you know double's positioning, you aren't getting hit above the knees... if you are an idiot and just standing right on the net ... you might as well have asked for it.

    I did have one of his shots from the backcourt coming straight at me (seemed pretty hard and about chest level), footwork: move and BH drop volley, win point. Easy breezy tennis.

    Perhaps as I play more I will understand what you all have experienced.
     
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  21. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    It's the one idiot you will play that overtakes the memory of the 10 cool guys/gals.

    J
     
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  22. Dartagnan64

    Dartagnan64 Legend

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    I think it gets tougher when you face the 4.5 men. They tend to have the real kick serves or the big powered bombs. My wife is a mediocre 3.5 ladies player and has few issues when we play 4.0 men. But any higher and they have to lay off or it's no fun.

    But I agree that the danger level reported on this thread is overstated. Most ladies at 3.5 or higher that I've played with know self perservation. It's the 2.5-3.0 group where the deer in headlights seems to rear its ugly head.
     
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  23. OnTheLine

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    Next week, facing a team where every guy on it is a 4.5 and every woman is a 3.5 .... so I perhaps I will see a different serve. I was very surprised that I could handle a 4.0 male serve at all. If you had asked me beforehand, I would have said "doubtful at best".
     
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  24. Dartagnan64

    Dartagnan64 Legend

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    Thing i find from most of the 4.0 men I've played against is their first serve is pretty hard but generally in the middle of the box. The second serve throws some spin and placement but the ball doesn't take off like it does from higher level men. So it's possible for a 3.5 - 4.0 woman to get a bead on it and at least make a serviceable return. The female net player is also less likely to aggressively attack a weak reply so you can get away with a less robust return.
     
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  25. winchestervatennis

    winchestervatennis Professional

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    I expect the 4.5 male serve will be a bit tougher. A little better placement, a lot more spin. And unless he's a huge d-bag you probably won't get more balls hammered at you, but you may get more balls that put you at a disadvantage or on the defensive.
     
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  26. SGM1980

    SGM1980 Rookie

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    As a good 3.5 lady who plays a ton of mixed - and much of it with my 4.5 husband - I just sigh a lot when all you guys make all these sweeping generalizations about women playing mixed. Just like a$$holes, everyone has opinions about mixed.

    As the levels go up - especially at 8.0 and above - I find that mixed really self-selects the women who can handle it. Never in an 8.0 match has a 3.5 or 4.0 lady complained about getting a ball hit near her, although I am more likely to send one in her direction than my husband who has better control over his volleys and overheads.

    I have trouble with ROS on a 4.5 guy who has a really good kick serve, but I don't have any problems with the bashers. I think most women have more trouble with serves that spin since we don't see it as much since our opponents are usually shorter! Men would be a lot better served (pun intended) to try to spin their serves than try to power through the ladies.

    I can return pretty much anything hit by a 4.5 man from the baseline with enough consistency and placement to extend the point and avoid the player at the net. Honestly the harder you hit it and the more you think you're pushing me off the court the easier it is for me to return it. My quick-handed partner then wait for the weak return he can smash off the court or volley for a winner.

    Can I just suggest to all you guys who find playing mixed doubles SO HORRIBLE AND SUCH TORTURE AND GOD WHY DOES ANYONE DO IT that maybe you don't play it? And then maybe that you don't talk about it and how terrible it is when you don't want to play it anyway?

    I really do like this board, but it is just about the least-friendly place to women I've ever seen in my life.
     
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  27. OnTheLine

    OnTheLine Hall of Fame

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    +1
    Agree with your overall assessment.
    Agree with your description of handling men's serves. Practiced last night against a 4.5M/3.5F ... hard serve no problem, can return CC and deep, heavy spin serve: troublesome.

    The generalizations about women's tennis in rec land on this board is tiresome
     
    #77
  28. SGM1980

    SGM1980 Rookie

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    We should play ;-)

    Can I have ad side?
     
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  29. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    If the two of you can return 4.5 men's hard serves and can return pretty much anything hit by a 4.5 man from the baseline with enough consistency and placement to extend the point and avoid the player at the net then how the heck are you still a 3.5?

    J
     
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  30. SGM1980

    SGM1980 Rookie

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    Well, I'd hoped not to be this year but I just missed it!

    I played a lot more singles last year than I'd wanted to and my court savvy is still a bit lacking, and my fitness last year wasn't where it needed to be. Also my net play has really improved in the last few months, but wasn't great last year. I'm far more comfortable hitting from the baseline.

    A smart 4.5 man can still get me, but it's not by hitting hard. And so many of them just try to beat me by hitting hard. I'm not saying we don't lose sometimes, or that I'm not the weakest player on the court. But 75% of the time I can do enough to continue the point. While the guys swing for the fences or go for crazy winners. And I'm blessed with a partner with crazy net savvy so he can really take advantage of anything good that I do.
     
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  31. winchestervatennis

    winchestervatennis Professional

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    I was thinking the same thing but didn't want to continue the trend of being unfriendly to women.

    4.5 men can have trouble dealing with other 4.5 men's services and groundstrokes, but somehow these two 3.5 women have no problem. I reckon sometimes 1+1=3.
     
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  32. SGM1980

    SGM1980 Rookie

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    Thanks, boys, that was fun.
     
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  33. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    No problem, I'll be that guy, I estimate that in 10.0 mixed less than half of my serves are returned by the girl, and maybe just over half by the guy unless he is a very strong 5.0.

    J
     
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  34. winchestervatennis

    winchestervatennis Professional

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    You should play with these two ladies at 8.0. Y'all'd never lose.
     
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  35. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    I'm not about that 8.0 life, I even quit 9.0 this year.

    J
     
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  36. jm1980

    jm1980 G.O.A.T.

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    Wait, what? You are a singles player who is comfortable enough from the baseline to handle pace (and serves!) coming from 4.5 men? Sounds like you should be playing singles in women's 4.5 or even 5.0
     
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  37. OnTheLine

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    Yes we should, and no, I play Ad :cool: (except in mixed) LOL

    It could be that I have not played against men with good serves for their level. My sample group in mixed right now is 2.

    I said in an earlier post that I did not think I would be able to return with purpose (strike the ball return deep with TS versus block it back) a 4.0 man's serve. I was surprised that in fact I could. I was equally surprised last night playing against a 4.5C man (yes, I checked afterwards), and I did need to block back more of his serves, but was able to strike with purpose a few.

    It could also be that these men were attempting chivalry and not serving their best to me ... I don't know.

    I do know that y'all typically underestimate the capabilities of women ... especially on a doubles court. Some of us are a little more athletic, a little more patient and a little smarter than others.
    Typically, we only need to handle 2 of your heavy shots from the baseline before our partner can get a poachable ball ... that is not that difficult and is a far cry from handling 4 or more of those same heavy TS shots in a singles match (which wouldn't happen)

    I also know that ratings are incredibly sticky. If you only play at level, even with a strong season with good margins in games, your likelihood of getting bumped is low as USTA I think tries to keep balance and doesn't move a lot of women into 4.0, at least around here.
     
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  38. Erlang

    Erlang New User

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    Singles and doubles can be different beasts. I used to play with a 3.5 woman who played 8.0 mixed and did pretty well there. When we played practice sets in singles I would win easily, but I reckon the 4.5 men she played would beat me just as easily. Or maybe in attempting to be "nice" I wasn't overhitting. Who knows?

    She really had no business playing 3.5 though, and did get bumped up to 4.0 next season.
     
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  39. BorgCash

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    I used to play mixed several times during club tournament. The surface was quite fast and my first service was flat and strong. Some of the opposite duos ladys started complain that i serve too fast on them. But these ladies were very experienced tournament players and if i will serve week on them i will loose a point. They just won't lost and began these "woman talks". By the way, the complaints were only from very experienced women who regularly played in tournaments. I told them that if i serve weak it will not be better for them and serve very slow and short. After that they began to attack mentally my partner in a manner that Johhnie Mac could only envy.I don't like this dirty games and quit to play mixed.
     
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  40. Shankadelic

    Shankadelic Rookie

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    I don't have a ton of league mixed matches under my belt, but the times I have played or watched, I have only seen one male (a 4.5) playing 8.0 really go for it on his serve when serving to the lady. Most guys I seen or have played against hit a spin or slice type serve, which seems to be more effective against them (and confirmed by the ladies responding to this thread). Is this not the norm for 8.0 play in your area?
     
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  41. Fxanimator1

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    Then it was not a "hard flat" serve.
     
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  42. OnTheLine

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    Oh, okay ... it was the hard flat serve he used ... just out of curiousity, if a male had described someone's serve as "their hard flat serve" would you believe that?
     
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  43. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    I'd believe the flat part and take the hard part with a grain of salt.

    There are maybe a handful of 4.5s around who actually serve hard and maybe 50% of 5.0s serve hard.

    J
     
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  44. Fxanimator1

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    What's gender got to do with it? Actually, I had to go back and read that you are probably a female.
    You said you're a 3.5, and that you easily returned a 4.0-4.5 flat, hard serve. I'm not questioning if you returned their serve or not, but as J011yroger put it, I take the "hard" part with a grain of salt.
     
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  45. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    Former 4.0 and current 3.5 here, with many 8.0 mixed matches in the books

    First, the misogyny on this board is longstanding and tiresome. Just sayin’.

    Second, I don’t know what kind of 4.5 servers you are dealing with, but I can’t do a thing with the serve of a 4.5 man. Getting it back any old way isn’t good enough because they will come in and volley or overhead.

    I don’t struggle with the serves of 4. 0 men because they tend to be predictable or inconsistent or both. So either they follow an ace with a DF, or they send a screamer to the middle of the box and don’t follow it in, so I get a good idea where to stand.

    That said, I may be unusual because my volleys are better than my groundstrokes generally, so dealing with the extra pace of mixed makes life difficult. My record in 8.0 mixed is not good, and I did it for the training and never had fun. I just re-joined a 7.0 mixed team, and I think that will be more my speed.
     
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  46. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    I think we are having that regional issue we had a few months ago.

    A 4.5 man is three levels higher than a 3.5 woman. Three. If she gets a racket on his serve, the next ball will be him crushing it back at her assuming he is not already coming to net with fierce slice. And she is then going to hit something strong enough that he will cough up something poachable?

    When I played 8.0 as a 4.0, we knew we had no chance to break the 4.5 man unless he suffered a mini-stroke. We focused on returning the woman’s serve and getting to net to isolate her. If that didn’t work, we were toast. The very few wins I had came when my partner was a beast ready to be bumped up and I had an exceptionally good night. And even then we barely won.
     
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  47. OnTheLine

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    For clarity ... the league match was against a 4.0 guy .... practice match against 4.5 guy. For the 4.5 guy, I do not know if he was dialing back his serve to me, that was just a pick up match, not league.

    I have watched plenty of men's matches and am certain that there are a lot of those serves thtat would simply go past me ... just not the ones that I was receiving this past weekend ...
     
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  48. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    Excited to see the Vegas 3.5 ladies capture national glory!

    J
     
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  49. OnTheLine

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    I think the regional difference is only at 3.0 and low 3.5 and purely a factor of our region having robust 2.5 leagues whereas yours do not ... thus diluting the 3.0 level terribly and pushing some 3.0s into low 3.5 .... JMO

    In terms of Nationals ... a lot of our teams at 3.5 are a little diluted, but a few are stacked ... I can think of 2 teams in our current flights that may do well at sectionals ... but in our region, the teams from Colorado are very strong and as sectionals is played there at that very high elevation they tend to do well and advance.
     
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  50. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    Off topic, are the Colorado courts grippy or fast?

    J
     

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