Mixed Doubles

[g4driver]

Thanks Schmeke -

Her team lost to us locally in 2013 and 2014 before going on to advance to Mixed Nationals in 2014, after they skipped the opportunity to go to Maui in 2013.

This Captain had no players on her team who played juniors , high school, or college tennis.

She had two former high school baseball players pick up tennis in their 40s.

I have lost to her and beaten her, and yep it is ridiculous form some player accuse her of cheating, and that is why I offered my bet.

Hope all is well with you in WA. My Dawgs are very excited about about your Lake Stevens HS QB coming to Athens!

 

[Deleted member 23235]

It isn't just not great for men, it $uCk$ for men.

RANT ON !

There are multiple men saying "No" to 8.0 mixed which helps limit the 8.0 mixed at our club which gives guys a more chances to play with men.

I hate 8.0 mixed more than 7.0 As a 4.0 guy everyone expects the 3.0 lady to struggle, but IMO there are way too many 4.0 women who hit too soft / no pace, and start that lobbying crap to deal with the spin and pace of 4.0 and 4.5 men. Those short lobs don't work vs 4.0 /4.5 men.

In two years at 8.0, there have been multiple times when the strongest female on the the court is a 3.5, whether as my opponent with her 4.5 male partner, or as my partner. There of plenty of 3.5 women who are better than 4.0 women in my area because they choose to stay at 3.5 rather than play up and get bumped up. This is basically a reflection of the shear number of weak 4.0 women in our area, which seems to affect our entire State.

IMO, the problem for 8.0 in my area is way too many soft hitting women who play up at 4.0 when they are 3.5 players and who then get bumped to a level that don't have the skill to compete. There is a team here that have multiple 4.0 women who won less than 20% of their 4.0 matches this spring. Some went winless. The matches are lopsided. When these women get on a court with 4.0 and 4.5 men, they simply can't handle the pace or the spin.

Q: How is it the 4.0 or 4.5 guys fault if he hits to a weak 4.0 lady who only got bumped up because she played up ? A: it isn't his fault she can't handle his pace.

There was a reason I turned down multiple requests to play 8.0 this year and won't play it next year unless I get paid to play. I was on four mixed teams that made trips to State last year, and was asked to play on multiple 8.0 teams this year. When I finally agreed, it took just one match with a weak 4.0 lady to get me to say "No Mas" - there is nothing worse in tennis than nearly losing an eye multiple times in one set because a weak hitting 3.5 lady played up at 4.0, got bumped to 4.0, and is now your partner throwing up short lob after short lob because she doesn't belong at 4.0. NO THANKS. When the 3.5 female Captain of the 8.0 mixed team starts apologizing as she and the rest of the team see my head nearly being taken off multiple times, I sat in disbelief. How many times have I heard "she is normally better "? "She had a bad night", or "give her another chance"

NO - no more chances !

Sorry, but I am done with 8.0 mixed. I will play 7.0 and 9.0, but never 8.0 again

And why are all the 8.0 mixed Captains 3.5 and 4.0 women? Because "I love the pace of 8.0 mixed." Give me a break.

Lol, I'd rather get my head taken off than not get a ball!
Generally I hate 8.0 mixed because it's a game of keep away (from me), and besides my serve and return, all other chances on the ball, I'm avoided,... so I actually don't get to play the ball. I'll often play net even if it might mean me getting drilled do to a short lob (or high drive),... if it means it will attract the ball, and give me a chance to play

 

[g4driver]

nytennisaddict,

I don't have a problem playing men's 4.5 tennis.

I just don't want to lose an eye and my medical license which would make me lose my career - when I have to turn for cover every time my 8.0 partner threw up a short lob, my opponents were hitting overheads too close to my head. Oh, I have won 8.0 matches with 3.5 females, but not with extremely weak 4.0 ladies who like to try and "rally" with 4.0 and 4.5 men.

Soft hitting 4.0 female partners don't return the ball like 4.5 male players- played 4.5 singles Wed night and 8.5 combo last night. No didn't have to duck one time last night, Because the. 4.5 guy didn't through up a short lob.

 

[swizzy]

i find doubles is the problem..unless you have 4 fairly equal players.. man or woman the weakest player gets most of the balls.. and the loss, and the frustration

 

[Deleted member 23235]

nytennisaddict,

I don't have a problem playing men's 4.5 tennis.

I just don't want to lose an eye and my medical license which would make me lose my career - when I have to turn for cover every time my 8.0 partner threw up a short lob, my opponents were hitting overheads too close to my head. Oh, I have won 8.0 matches with 3.5 females, but not with extremely weak 4.0 ladies who like to try and "rally" with 4.0 and 4.5 men.

Soft hitting 4.0 female partners don't return the ball like 4.5 male players- played 4.5 singles Wed night and 8.5 combo last night. No didn't have to duck one time last night, Because the. 4.5 guy didn't through up a short lob.

yeah i presumed you're a good player and have no issues staying in the thick of things with good players...

I understand the issues of staying at net with powder-puff-hitting-partner.

I was just saying that despite dangers of staying at net with a weak partner always setting up kill shots for my opponents, I'd rather die of getting hit by a ball, than die of boredom of never getting a ball

 

[corneliuscobb]

advanced 3.5 or 4.0

LOL. That's just a contradiction in terms. 3.5/4.0 is hack tennis central.

 

[eelhc]

LOL. That's just a contradiction in terms. 3.5/4.0 is hack tennis central.

Welcome to the board and the ignore box.

Unless you are in the top 100, you are a hack too... All depends on where you are looking up/down from.

 

[corneliuscobb]

Welcome to the board and the ignore box.

Unless you are in the top 100, you are a hack too... All depends on where you are looking up/down from.

Anyone outside of the top 100 is a hack? ROTFL.

So all D1 college players are 'hacks'? And all 5.0s and 5.5s...hacks too?

And you reckon the guy in the yellow is hack too since he's currently ranked 134.

Ryan Harrison (129) must be a hack as well as must James Ward (113), British Davis Cup player and Marton Fucsovics (189), winner of the boys title at Wimbledon as well as reaching Q2/Q3 in all the slams.

 

[Ironwood]

There is nothing worse than trying to be sporting hitting soft to a weak woman across the net, only to have her male partner intercept and put it away for a winner! Being punished for hitting soft is what frustrates me about mixed. But as my play is mostly club social tennis I play mixed often

 

[g4driver]

yeah i presumed you're a good player and have no issues staying in the thick of things with good players...

I understand the issues of staying at net with powder-puff-hitting-partner.

I was just saying that despite dangers of staying at net with a weak partner always setting up kill shots for my opponents, I'd rather die of getting hit by a ball, than die of boredom of never getting a ball

nytennisaddict, I am a hack. And no, I am not good enough to play with extremely weak 4.0 ladies. There are three 3.5 women I have won 8.0 matches with, but they all have either great lobs, or they can hit away from the net players with enough pace that I won't lose a retina.

Last week I beat my 4.5 lefty friend for the first time. He has kicked my butt since 2010 when I sold him my three Pure Drive + frames. Beating him was my greatest achievement this year. Having him lose in front of my neighbor's 8 and 10 year old neighbor's kids was the icing on the cake, as the 8 year starts singing the key words to Beck's masterpiece, "Loser"

and speaking of Cake

Last year when he was 7, his mom asked me, why her 7 year old son is singing Cake's "Short Skirt, Long Jacket"

I kid-sit them quite a bit, so these kids are listening to Red Hot Chili Peppers, Nirvana, and Foo Fighters probably a little before their mom would like.

 

[Topaz]

Topez best wishes at Nationals.

If our team makes it that far, love to meet you and your team for dinner.

Our 7.0 team went last year and skipped the chance to go to Maui in 2013

Oh yeah, definitely! Are you talking 18+ or 40+? The team I have going is 18+...which is scaring the crap out of me. Worried about some of the ringers I'm sure we will run into. I ask because I don't think 18+ goes to Maui...though that would be nice!

i find doubles is the problem..unless you have 4 fairly equal players.. man or woman the weakest player gets most of the balls.. and the loss, and the frustration

Haha, I used to think this too, and still stick to mostly mixed and singles, but I'm getting better at women's dubs. It is hard to transition between women's dubs and mixed.

Interesting that I see several mention that you have a better time in 8.0 with 3.5 women than with some 4.0s. Goes to show that the ratings are kind of whacked. You have to find the person, possible ignoring the number next to their name, that you gel with and work on playing as a team.

 

[g4driver]

Sorry Topez, yes it a 40+ team.

Maui was a one time deal it seems as the USTA had a hard time getting teams to commit.

And yes, I have had more luck at 8.0 with 3.5 women than all but one of the 4.0 women. The problem is see is this: soft hitting 4.0 women just doesn't work at 8.0. The 3.5 women all hit harder than the 4.0 ladies I was paired with. This is not a reflection on most 4.0 women, but rather our area does tend to have a crazy number of women who play up and get bumped up eventually.

My suspicion tells me that as they play up their DNTRP incrementally moved up quicker than it would have had they simply played at their given 3.5 level.

 

[g4driver]

Topaz,

On our 40+, we have two 3.5 women and two 3.5 guys. Both women will be bumped to 4.0 without question. One of the 3..5 guys is better than the bottom third of the 4.0 guys on our 4.0 team, and he should be bumped. He went unbeaten at men's State this year. The strongest 3.5 lady/guy mentioned above went unbeaten this year through playoffs losing an avg. of 4 games per match over 8 matches. They are considered our strongest team and play line 1 week in week out.

I played with a very quirky, weak 3.0 lady and a much stronger 3.0 lady. Another 4.0 on our team refused to play with weaker 3.0 in the playoffs. She was disappointed when she didn't play in the local playoffs, and my heart went out to her. It was clear she was upset. I don't enjoy playing with her either, and we haven't played much for the team, as she is seen as a liability. She was actually called that by a teammate

But to make her feel better, I volunteered to play a practice match two weeks after the playoffs vs our unbeaten 3.5/3.5 team when nobody else would accept their challenge match. I told her "we aren't supposed to win, but I hate losing. If you believe in yourself and listen to me, we have a chance. " Down 0-5 in the first set it looked grim as I began the sixth game. Hold, break them, hold, then they held. We lost the first set 6-3. But we lost three deuce games and we were closer than they wanted. Up 4-2 in the second, they were perplexed. After they lost their first set of the year 6-4, they were not focused and we beat them 10-6 in a TB.

The other 3.5 lady on the team is one of the 3.5 ladies I have won with at 8.0 mixed. She is a great friend and one of just two teammates besides our opponents to acknowledge the win. I don't want accolades, but this quirky 3.0 lady wants to play at least one match at State. What was most disappointing to me was the comment by other 3.5 guy, who plays on my 7.5 team. He viewed their lost as some type of ladder where we jumped over a reliable strong team. I told him, "that's ridiculous, it was an anomaly. I know we aren't better, and would lose 9 out of 10 times to them."

Considering none of our 7.0 teammates have beaten us in practice matches, and the top two combos have lost to us in practice matches, hopefully she gets a chance to play just one match at State. That is all she wants. One match with her is as much as I can handle. Lol One of our 4.0 guys hated hitting at her as a teammate, which explains the win over him. Our non-team opponents won't be as kind.

Do I like playing with her? No. But I work with her husband and it is called being nice.

 

[prestigeww]

I'm playing a mixed money tournament at the end of the month ~$1500 usd to the winner. I'm a 5.5 and my partner is a 5.0, but I still am not sure how it will go. I've never played mixed before but I have a feeling it will come down to who has a better woman partner.

I'm not really sure how to approach mixed doubles either, I mean I'm not going bomb 125 mph serves at the women i don't think. Who knows what will happen.

 

[Roland G]

Ive done it a few times under duress. I absolutely hate it but don't like to refuse when asked.
I never know whether to hit hard or soft?
What level of participation is required from the man?
The presistent targeting of the weaker player gets under my skin especially when the opposing man gets my partner in his cross hairs as he is well entitled to do. It annoys me probably because I refuse to do the same.
The game sucks the life out of me, makes my legs heavy and movement laboured. Find it hard to muster up any interest in it and often simply tank in games I get so frustrated.
Anyway thats about it. I think i'm going to forget about mixed in future.

I have just completed a Mixed Doubles League as Captain for our club and while I'm not yet ready to talk about it, you have just succinctly described how I now feel about Mixed. Will engage with this thread when I'm less P'd off.

 

[g4driver]

I'm playing a mixed money tournament at the end of the month ~$1500 usd to the winner. I'm a 5.5 and my partner is a 5.0, but I still am not sure how it will go. I've never played mixed before but I have a feeling it will come down to who has a better woman partner.

I'm not really sure how to approach mixed doubles either, I mean I'm not going bomb 125 mph serves at the women i don't think. Who knows what will happen.

I watched a 5.5 SEC 3 time MVP play 10.5 mixed last year. He was dating a friend of mine. He said he had never played mixed in all his years. He told us he was in shock from the "pace" and "no pace" he described it as the strangest tennis he had ever played.

And yes, he won the match. 5.5 players are pretty rare. He was the MVP his sophomore, junior, and senior year at Southeastern Conference School. You can't be a chump and be the MVP as a sophomore.

 

[g4driver]

Roland G- loved you post! you make me smile and I feel better knowing I am not alone

 

[prestigeww]

I watched a 5.5 SEC 3 time MVP play 10.5 mixed last year. He was dating a friend of mine. He said he had never played mixed in all his years. He told us he was in shock from the "pace" and "no pace" he described it as the strangest tennis he had ever played.

And yes, he won the match. 5.5 players are pretty rare. He was the MVP his sophomore, junior, and senior year at Southeastern Conference School. You can't be a chump and be the MVP as a sophomore.

I must admit I don't think i'm a true 5.5...my area is pretty weak as far as 5.0's go and i went undefeated this season and some grumpy guy appealed me. I'm sure Ill get bumped back down. But yes the contrast in pace will definitely be interesting!

 

[Startzel]

There is no point to try to do an analysis to convince Starzel. Regardless of what I might find that shows consistent play or not, or consistent growth over time but no strange ups and downs, he isn't going to conceded his point. He just apparently falls in the camp that thinks one has to cheat to do well in league play.

See what I just wrote on the Texas Sectionals thread (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/inde...-18-sectionals-aug-14-16.540043/#post-9531388) about the nature of artificial levels. Some people are just not willing to accept that they may not naturally be at the top of the artificial levels the USTA sets and choose to cheat to finagle a way to beat the teams/players that are.

Can you explain how two 3.5s matched up against two 4.0s would have an expected outcome of the '3.5 kicking their asses'?

I understand your argument when it applies to someone of the same rating. Just because one 3.5 always beats another 3.5 doesn't mean that 3.5 is really a 4.0. However, this isn't what is being discussed.

He gave an example of a 3.5 always beating multiple 4.0s. In his example we aren't discussing artificial levels between one rating. We are discussing the usta already establishing multiple players being 4.0s and several rated 3.5

If those are accurate ratings of ability, it doesn't seem plausible for the expected outcome of 3.5 vs 4.0 match to be the 3.5 winning easily. Otherwise there is a fault in the rating system.

 

[g4driver]

He gave an example of a 3.5 always beating multiple 4.0s. In his example we aren't discussing artificial levels between one rating. We are discussing the usta already establishing multiple players being 4.0s and several rated 3.5

Hey Startzel,

You have a short history on this forum, yet you continue to misquote people, and accuse people of cheating and lying. It is quite sad that you take this approach with people. I never used the words you wrote above, so don't twist my words, or the words of others. There are people who cheat and lie, but she isn't one of them and I am defending her as a player who has lost to her.

Here is my direct quote and I stand by it.

The female Captain of 7.0 mixed team who went to Mixed Nationals recently, and who turned down the Mixed "Invitational" in Hawaii in 2013 is a recent bump up to 4.0 and she and a few other 3.5 ladies were kicking theses 4.0 women's I am describing butts when she and her teammate were 3.5 players.

What you fail to realize, is that as a player who is playing more and improving is rising, while their opponents are either not improving are sliding backwards, yes, lower rated players will beat the higher rated players when their paths cross. Sometimes with relative ease.

So when a player has been a 3.5C rated player for a period of five to ten years, and has been playing limited tennis as she raises kids, starts playing more and more she will likely improve. She can and did rapidly advance. Should she have been bumped in 2013? IMO, yes. She had already started winning at 4.0 in 2013, and had a 15-1 spring 3.5 record in 2013. She plays a lot of tennis. In 2014, she got even better, by playing more 4.0 women, some who beat her. One who beat her in 2014 was bumped to 4.5. In her first year at 4.0, her USTA record stands 15-3. So it stands to reason that in 2014, she was already playing at a respectable 4.0 level. The USTA's system which is often slow to bump someone up and even slower to bump people down. She is clearly someone who simply starting playing more and improving.

She didn't cheat, or lie on a rating frame back when she self-rated as a 3.5 and won a grand total less than 3 games per match.

Is it too much to ask for you to be more respectful in your postings?

 

[Startzel]

Hey Startzel,

You have a short history on this forum, yet you continue to misquote people, and accuse people of cheating and lying. It is quite sad that you take this approach with people. I never used the words you wrote above, so don't twist my words, or the words of others. There are people who cheat and lie, but she isn't one of them and I am defending her as a player who has lost to her.

Here is my direct quote and I stand by it.



What you fail to realize, is that as a player who is playing more and improving is rising, while their opponents are either not improving are sliding backwards, yes, lower rated players will beat the higher rated players when their paths cross. Sometimes with relative ease.

So when a player has been a 3.5C rated player for a period of five to ten years, and has been playing limited tennis as she raises kids, starts playing more and more she will likely improve. She can and did rapidly advance. Should she have been bumped in 2013? IMO, yes. She had already started winning at 4.0 in 2013, and had a 15-1 spring 3.5 record in 2013. She plays a lot of tennis. In 2014, she got even better, by playing more 4.0 women, some who beat her. One who beat her in 2014 was bumped to 4.5. In her first year at 4.0, her USTA record stands 15-3. So it stands to reason that in 2014, she was already playing at a respectable 4.0 level. The USTA's system which is often slow to bump someone up and even slower to bump people down. She is clearly someone who simply starting playing more and improving.

She didn't cheat, or lie on a rating frame back when she self-rated as a 3.5 and won a grand total less than 3 games per match.

Is it too much to ask for you to be more respectful in your postings?

So you acknowledge that her ntrp rating did not accurately reflect her ability?

 

[schmke]

So you acknowledge that her ntrp rating did not accurately reflect her ability?

For players that are getting significantly better or worse during the year, their year-end NTRP level from the prior year may not accurate reflect their rating. I don't think anyone is debating that. Any rating system where the rating is only updated once per year is bound to be no longer accurate late in the year when a player is ultimately bumped up or down when the new rating comes out.

However, the dynamic rating calculated for each player is updated after each match and should be a much better indication of the ability of the player at any given point in time. The USTA does not disclose this however, but it is used to calculate the ratings from each new match that is played.

So it is entirely possible for player 1 to be a 2013 year-end 3.5 and player 2 to be a 2013 year-end 4.0, and for player 1 to have gotten better during 2014 such that her dynamic rating is higher than player 2's dynamic rating and so player 1 winning would be an expected result. This is bound to happen from time to time as I described above, particularly when players are focusing on their game and improving.

But you made the accusation that the 3.5 had to be cheating in order to beat a legitimate 4.0. Are you thus taking the position that the 3.5 I described above is cheating? If so, we now know your definition of cheating and can interpret what you say appropriately. I think the vast majority of people would not say what the 3.5 I described above has done is cheating though.

 

[Startzel]

For players that are getting significantly better or worse during the year, their year-end NTRP level from the prior year may not accurate reflect their rating. I don't think anyone is debating that. Any rating system where the rating is only updated once per year is bound to be no longer accurate late in the year when a player is ultimately bumped up or down when the new rating comes out.

However, the dynamic rating calculated for each player is updated after each match and should be a much better indication of the ability of the player at any given point in time. The USTA does not disclose this however, but it is used to calculate the ratings from each new match that is played.

So it is entirely possible for player 1 to be a 2013 year-end 3.5 and player 2 to be a 2013 year-end 4.0, and for player 1 to have gotten better during 2014 such that her dynamic rating is higher than player 2's dynamic rating and so player 1 winning would be an expected result. This is bound to happen from time to time as I described above, particularly when players are focusing on their game and improving.

But you made the accusation that the 3.5 had to be cheating in order to beat a legitimate 4.0. Are you thus taking the position that the 3.5 I described above is cheating? If so, we now know your definition of cheating and can interpret what you say appropriately. I think the vast majority of people would not say what the 3.5 I described above has done is cheating though.

To clarify, I made two accusation that for a player the way he described to be able to always beat an opponent a level higher must be cheating.

The situation you describe above is similar to a cashier's mistake. If you paid with a $10 bill and the cashier gives you change for a $100. A lot of people say that's the cashiers fault. You didn't try to mislead the cashier. However, everyone with integrity will know you stole $90 if you just walk out without saying anything.

I think we both know this mentality is what leads to cheating. To make nationals you need several players who are better than the level they are rated.

Even you mention in your post her situation happens, "from time to time." For her and several of her teammates to be in the same boat seems questionable, no?

 

[PrestigeDave45]

I have just completed a Mixed Doubles League as Captain for our club and while I'm not yet ready to talk about it, you have just succinctly described how I now feel about Mixed. Will engage with this thread when I'm less P'd off.

You have my utmost sympathies!

 

[g4driver]

To clarify, I made two accusation that for a player the way he described to be able to always beat an opponent a level higher must be cheating.

The situation you describe above is similar to a cashier's mistake. If you paid with a $10 bill and the cashier gives you change for a $100. A lot of people say that's the cashiers fault. You didn't try to mislead the cashier. However, everyone with integrity will know you stole $90 if you just walk out without saying anything.

I think we both know this mentality is what leads to cheating. To make nationals you need several players who are better than the level they are rated.

Even you mention in your post her situation happens, "from time to time." For her and several of her teammates to be in the same boat seems questionable, no?

Please stop misquoting me and twisting my words to your liking.


Please show a post where I said this 3.5 player "always beat an opponent a level higher"

I quoted my post with my words and ask you to show me where I wrote anything near what you are twisting.

So you acknowledge that her ntrp rating did not accurately reflect her ability?

Yes, I admit that. That doesn't make her a cheater. And more importantly, it gives you absolutely no right to call her or me a liar or a cheater.

How about you ? Will you admit you recklessly accuse others of lying and cheating without facts ?

No her rating didn't accurately reflect her ability, nor did mine in 2013. That doesn't make either her or me cheaters. We faced off against each other in 2013. I lost to her. Later that year I got bumped. A year later the other 3 players from that match were bumped.

There are several 4.0 players on my 4.0 team whose ability doesn't react their rating. They are both unforced error machines that have and do get beaten by stronger 3.5 guys in doubles. Does that make the opponents cheaters ? Hardly. Many players who are near the threshold of a bump up or down aren't accurately reflected in their USTA rating. . Schmidt has been trying to inform you of this for quite some time.

Unlike you, who went to state and lost all three of your matches at singles, I had a very different experience. Did I cheat because I won?

I self rated as a 3.5 the spring of 2007, played three matches and was crushed in each. I think I won 3 games in one of the matches. I remember my last opponent smoking a cigarette after he beat me 0&1.

Then just a few months later, I blew out my back in Aug 07, and sat out of tennis for over two years. Was forced to self rate again and choose 3.5 since that was my last self-rating and I was an 0-3 3.5S who had hit his butt handed to him in 2007. I finally got a C rating at the end of 2010. Played 2011-2012 and 2013 with the C rating and bumped after going 5-0 in singles at State as a 3.5 in 2013

Did I cheat accordingly to your definition ?

 

[schmke]

The situation you describe above is similar to a cashier's mistake. If you paid with a $10 bill and the cashier gives you change for a $100. A lot of people say that's the cashiers fault. You didn't try to mislead the cashier. However, everyone with integrity will know you stole $90 if you just walk out without saying anything.

I don't see the analogy at all. Are you suggesting a player that improves their game to the point that they think they may be bumped up at year-end stop playing completely so they aren't "cheating" the competition? Would you DQ a player in the middle of the year as soon as their dynamic rating exceeds the top of their level?

I think we both know this mentality is what leads to cheating. To make nationals you need several players who are better than the level they are rated.

If you are saying any player that works on their game and improves and ends up being bumped up at year-end is cheating, I and most others would disagree. But at least we now know how to interpret your use of the word (e.g. ignore it).

Even you mention in your post her situation happens, "from time to time." For her and several of her teammates to be in the same boat seems questionable, no?

If it happens year after year, sure, and I'd look for any indication that the lower rated players were throwing matches to maintain their low rating. But if it happens for one year and those players are bumped up at year-end, no, not suspicious at all. When a player finds time or decides to work on their game and they improve, they typically do it with a few friends that they play with. So it seems reasonable that they would be in the same boat.

 

[Startzel]

I don't see the analogy at all. Are you suggesting a player that improves their game to the point that they think they may be bumped up at year-end stop playing completely so they aren't "cheating" the competition? Would you DQ a player in the middle of the year as soon as their dynamic rating exceeds the top of their level?


If you are saying any player that works on their game and improves and ends up being bumped up at year-end is cheating, I and most others would disagree. But at least we now know how to interpret your use of the word (e.g. ignore it).


If it happens year after year, sure, and I'd look for any indication that the lower rated players were throwing matches to maintain their low rating. But if it happens for one year and those players are bumped up at year-end, no, not suspicious at all. When a player finds time or decides to work on their game and they improve, they typically do it with a few friends that they play with. So it seems reasonable that they would be in the same boat.

It doesn't do us any good when you make an example that doesn't match what is being discussed.

G4driver has stated she spent an entire season where she was better than her rating. This isn't a case of her gradually improving as the season came along. Your argument would be valid if that were the case. While the year is long, the individual seasons are very short.

 

[g4driver]

It doesn't do us any good when you make an example that doesn't match what is being discussed.

G4driver has stated she spent an entire season where she was better than her rating. This isn't a case of her gradually improving as the season came along. Your argument would be valid if that were the case. While the year is long, the individual seasons are very short.

You continue to twist words and quote me with things not only that I haven't written, but you can't find the quotes that you claim I make.

Please tell us how she didn't gradually improve from 2002 when she first self-rated, to 2006 where she won 7 games as a 3.5 Self-Rated player to 2013 when she and her team of players that had zero junior, high school or college players on her team isn't gradual improvement.

2002 to 2013 is a period of 12 years. A period where a player played sporadically in the early portion of that time, and a lot of tennis in 2011, 2012, and 2013. Yet somehow in the your mind she cheated? Got it.

 

[PrestigeDave45]

Give it up folks! Drive on forget it!

 

[Startzel]

You continue to twist words and quote me with things not only that I haven't written, but you can't find the quotes that you claim I make.

Please tell us how she didn't gradually improve from 2002 when she first self-rated, to 2006 where she won 7 games as a 3.5 Self-Rated player to 2013 when she and her team of players that had zero junior, high school or college players on her team isn't gradual improvement.

2002 to 2013 is a period of 12 years. A period where a player played sporadically in the early portion of that time, and a lot of tennis in 2011, 2012, and 2013. Yet somehow in the your mind she cheated? Got it.

We aren't discussing 2002-2013. We are discussing 2013-2014 where you acknowledge she was already above level at the start of 2014. There was no improvement needed to get to a 4.0 level during that calendar year.

I'm not twisting anything. You're just talking out of both sides of your mouth. You say she was kicking these 4.0 ladies butts when she was a 3.5. Then you get defensive and argue she wasn't beating ten every time.

We both know she took advantage of a inherent weakness in the system.

You can insult me losing at state if you want. But I lost because the guys were better than me, I don't think any of them were playing below level. So don't even try to argue I think anyone who beats me is cheating.

I could have legally self rated a level below the one I did. I would have breezed through that level. But it wouldn't have been any fun. I'd know at the end of the day my results were a sham because I cheated.

Maybe all you care about is winning. But some of us play sports with honor.

 

[Topaz]

Ah, yeah, I do remember people saying that the trip out to Maui, while an awesome idea, was very expensive. That was the first year of 40+ and I was not old enough yet. Haha, the good old days.

My 40+ mixed team got a WC to states, so we have been given another chance!

 

[g4driver]

Starzel,

You insulted a lady who beat me fairly. I believe you have twisted my words, and the truth. You can't comprehend how she got better from 2002 to 2013 all at the same 3.5 level over the course of 12 years. I specifically referred to her kicking "these" as in the weak 4.0 female partners that I found in 8.0 mixed.

Schmidt has tried with exasperation to explain to you, but you are blaming her for the USTA not bumping her up? That is terrible logic.

I wasn't trying to insult you about your losses at state, if my words came across as such, then you have my sincere apology. You posted your results another thread that I made a post in. I made a post here stating that I won 7 games in three matches in 2007. In the last match, I had a guy beat me 0 & 1 then smoked a cigarette after he beat me and I wrote that for everyone to see.

I then went on to described how I played and improved just like the lady you have called a cheater did. Both she and I took a lot of losses on the way and kept working. In the end we both had 3.5 ratings. She went to Nationals on a mixed doubles team. I didn't. I did have a good run at state, but winning means nothing if you have to cheat or abuse the system. I called one of my on shots out at at Sectionals in front of the opposing team, when they played my ball as in. I lost my serve after I made that call. I called a ball in at State that would have put my team in the Finals in front of 20+ people. I had people who didn't know me tell me "Hate to tell you, but that ball was out." I didn't see the ball out, so I called it in.

You don't know me and I don't know you, but the only time I have accused anyone of cheating is when I had proof of it, and I posted it with pictures of what an opposing team did. It was clearly cheating and multiple readers on here saw what the other team / teams they did. (They built Fake/Phantom teams in a neighboring league where the team that was going to state spilt in half for the purpose of losing to each other when the Fake teams "played" each other.") It was quite an elaborate ruse.

I have no ill well towards you Starzel, I just don't appreciate you calling my her a cheater. At the time, she was just my opponent. She beat me, and later we become friends.

I hope you accept my sincere apology if you thought I insulted you about losses at state. That wasn't my intent. I don't know how long it took you to get to State, but I know it isn't easy to get there from my area. I was merely trying to paint a picture of how long it took me to go from losing badly to winning at State.

You get the final word. I won't respond to your reply. If you accept my apology, my response to you would be "Thanks. Let's forward with civility"

 

[tennis tom]

I'm not really sure how to approach mixed doubles either, I mean I'm not going bomb 125 mph serves at the women i don't think.

Just hit your top-spin serve to the ladies and you won't look like a bad guy.

 

[tennis tom]

Will you guys get a room already, I'm having trouble concentrating on my porn.

 

[Topaz]

Just hit your top-spin serve to the ladies and you won't look like a bad guy.

SHHHHHHHhhhhhh!!!!!

(its true, we'd rather you hit flat serves than spin)

 

[OrangePower]

The problem with Mixed isn't the gals per se, but the fact that USTA does not use the same rating scale for men and women. Meaning, a 4.0 woman for example is not going to be competitive (generally speaking) with a 4.0 guy, etc.

As a result, there's potential for large differences in actual ability between the players in a mixed match, which leads to not the best tennis and other issues.

If USTA used a unisex rating scale then there would be no issue. Mixed would be more like same sex combo, in terms of the tennis. But for various reasons unisex ratings are not going to happen.

I stay away from league mixed, but will happily play social mixed where the players are close in level. For example I often play with a 5.0 female friend (I'm a 4.5 male) against a 4.5 friend and his 5.0 wife, and it's great tennis - because we're all similar in actual level. But in USTA mixed, it's all over the place.