Mixed Play Results

[Cindysphinx]

I am completely confused about how the computer handles players who play mixed doubles.

There is a guy I know of who self-rated at 3.0 for the fall 2006 6.0 mixed season. He played six matches (with ladies who are not very good) and lost them all. (At this point one would guess that he would have earned a "mixed exclusive" rating of 3.0, which is a computer rating, right?).

Then he played winter 7.0 mixed with high 3.0 lady partners. He went 2-4.

Then in the spring, he played mens 3.0 and 3.5. In 3.5 doubles, he went 1-4, with the one win being a blow-out of a No. 3 doubles team. He got killed in his only singles 3.5 match, and his doubles losses were competitive.

At 3.0, he won two matches (singles 0 & 1; singles 6-2, 7-5) and lost one doubles (6-2, 7-5).

The computer DQ'd him and he forfeited his two 3.0 wins.

Where are the strikes here?

And if he's computer-rated, how come they reversed his 3.0 wins? Our league says that DQs for computer-rated players are only the last match. It is only self-rated players who forfeit all of their matches.

I guess I'm trying to understand how the computer treats mixed results in NTRP. . . .

 

[Topaz]

Cindy, the computer completely ignores mixed results if the player plays seniors and/or indoor/outdoor. Since this guy did, the only results it will count are the men's team results.

Remember, it matters by how much he won, but also by who he beat.

Combo league results don't count toward ratings either.

 

[Cindysphinx]

But if he had a computer rating of "M", why would he have to forfeit all of his 3.0 results? The league rule is that a computer-rated player only forfeits the last match.

 

[Cruzer]

In our section if your rating is adjusted mid year due to a three strikes violation then all the matches you played at your lower/incorrect level become 6-0, 6-0 victories for your opponents.

 

[Cindysphinx]

That's not the rule in our section for computer-rated players. They forfeit only the last match.

So maybe an M rating is akin to a self-rating when you cross over and start to play non-mixed matches such that only computer ratings generated in non-mixed play are entitled to this favorable treatment?

 

[SJS]

Cindy,
In the Mid-Atlantic section if a computer rated player is playing "up" and is DQ'd it's the same as if he is self-rated and all the matches won at the lower level are forfeits.

 

[JLyon]

M usually means the player only played in Mixed League and did not play regualt adult leagues or tournaments. Have a local player who played 2 matches in 9.0 mixed and recieved a 5.0 Mixed Rating

 

[JSF1]

Another key point to this is that he may not have technically played a whole "championship season" year as a mixed player before the men's season, therefore he would have never had a chance to have a permanent mixed rating.

 

[10sfreak]

I am completely confused about how the computer handles players who play mixed doubles.

There is a guy I know of who self-rated at 3.0 for the fall 2006 6.0 mixed season. He played six matches (with ladies who are not very good) and lost them all. (At this point one would guess that he would have earned a "mixed exclusive" rating of 3.0, which is a computer rating, right?).

Then he played winter 7.0 mixed with high 3.0 lady partners. He went 2-4.

Then in the spring, he played mens 3.0 and 3.5. In 3.5 doubles, he went 1-4, with the one win being a blow-out of a No. 3 doubles team. He got killed in his only singles 3.5 match, and his doubles losses were competitive.

At 3.0, he won two matches (singles 0 & 1; singles 6-2, 7-5) and lost one doubles (6-2, 7-5).

The computer DQ'd him and he forfeited his two 3.0 wins.

Where are the strikes here?

And if he's computer-rated, how come they reversed his 3.0 wins? Our league says that DQs for computer-rated players are only the last match. It is only self-rated players who forfeit all of their matches.

I guess I'm trying to understand how the computer treats mixed results in NTRP. . . .

Hahaha! Some of y'all are starting to see what I've been writing about in regards to the NTRP system, and how screwed up that logirithm they're using must be. People getting DQed for seemingly NO reason whatsoever, even though they've been playing at the level assigned to them by the computer...
I hate to say "I told you so", but I told you so!!!

 

[Cindysphinx]

Cindy,
In the Mid-Atlantic section if a computer rated player is playing "up" and is DQ'd it's the same as if he is self-rated and all the matches won at the lower level are forfeits.

SJS, are you sure about this?

My theory is he got the mixed rating because the computer got a distorted picture of him. His low-quality partners at 6.0 mixed were making him lose, but the computer was blaming him and figured he was a legit 3.0 M. As soon as he started playing with better partners at 7.0 mixed, he started playing like the 3.5 he really is.

 

[JavierLW]

SJS, are you sure about this?

My theory is he got the mixed rating because the computer got a distorted picture of him. His low-quality partners at 6.0 mixed were making him lose, but the computer was blaming him and figured he was a legit 3.0 M. As soon as he started playing with better partners at 7.0 mixed, he started playing like the 3.5 he really is.

If I am reading it right, he would have a Mixed rating from 6.0 and 7.0 (since those were in the same year).

So he would of went into the next year with a possible high 3.0 rating from mixed.

Despite the rants of 10sfreak, you dont really give enough information to know where strikes would of occured because it all depends on what specific ratings his opponents have. Winning or losing matches doesnt really mean anything, because you can lose a match to even an average 3.5 player and if you did well enough in the game score that will get you rated up.

It also doesnt matter if someone was at #3 doubles or not unless it's obvious that they have 3.0 ratings and are playing 3.5. If they have a 3.5 rating and you blow them out that's going to give you a number that is way outside of having a 3.0 rating.

 

[JavierLW]

Hahaha! Some of y'all are starting to see what I've been writing about in regards to the NTRP system, and how screwed up that logirithm they're using must be. People getting DQed for seemingly NO reason whatsoever, even though they've been playing at the level assigned to them by the computer...
I hate to say "I told you so", but I told you so!!!

There isnt enough information given here to know it's for "NO reason".

If he's doing well at 3.5 (and doing well doesnt mean winning necessarily, not sure you are at that point of acceptance yet), there is no reason why he shouldnt be rated out of 3.0 no matter what the computer had assigned him.

I'll give this example again, in some sections you can play two levels ahead. If I play a bunch of 6.0 mixed, come back and play 3.0 and 4.0 and actually lose all my 4.0 matches but get at least 5 games in each of them, do you think I should really be playing 3.0??

This kind of crap happens all the time, Ive seen entire teams of ringers create 6.0 mixed teams, get M ratings and then go on to try to play 3.0 men or 3.0 women. I dont see you complaining about that.

 

[Cindysphinx]

If I am reading it right, he would have a Mixed rating from 6.0 and 7.0 (since those were in the same year).

So he would of went into the next year with a possible high 3.0 rating from mixed.

Despite the rants of 10sfreak, you dont really give enough information to know where strikes would of occured because it all depends on what specific ratings his opponents have. Winning or losing matches doesnt really mean anything, because you can lose a match to even an average 3.5 player and if you did well enough in the game score that will get you rated up.

It also doesnt matter if someone was at #3 doubles or not unless it's obvious that they have 3.0 ratings and are playing 3.5. If they have a 3.5 rating and you blow them out that's going to give you a number that is way outside of having a 3.0 rating.

No, his 6.0 play was fall of 2006. Then ratings came out. Then his 7.0 play (and everything else) came after that.

The other thing could be that a mixed exclusive rating is just much less precise than a regular rating.

But you make a good point. When you're above level, you know it. At which point, you should bow out of playing the lower level and play the higher level. If you decide to risk it and get nailed, that's too bad.

Another friend of mine just got a DQ on the eve of the 2.5 playoffs. In September 2006, she correctly (IMHO) self-rated at 2.5. She played 5.5 combo and lost a single 6.0 mixed match in 2006, so the computer didn't give her a computer rating. She played more combo in 2007 and took some lessons. She then played a bunch of 2.5 singles and doubles, winning handily.

It's a shame. I seriously doubt many captains would have even taken her onto their 3.0 teams, so she didn't have much choice about playing 2.5. And now her team goes to districts and she sits home.

Ah, the pain of the self-rated player!

 

[SJS]

SJS, are you sure about this?

My theory is he got the mixed rating because the computer got a distorted picture of him. His low-quality partners at 6.0 mixed were making him lose, but the computer was blaming him and figured he was a legit 3.0 M. As soon as he started playing with better partners at 7.0 mixed, he started playing like the 3.5 he really is.

Cindy,
Yes, I'm sure. It's why I'm always a little nervous when my players play "up". Here's the rule from 2007 USTA/MAS League:

a. During local league: that player shall be disqualified, and if the player is self-rated, all matches played at that level shall be forfeited. If the player is computer rated and ONLY competing at that level and not a higher level, then only the last match played shall be forfeited. If the computer rated player is also playing at a higher level, then all matches played at disqualified level shall be forfeited. The player may register on a team at the higher level if otherwise eligible to do so. The Sectional office shall issue notice of NTRP disqualification promptly to the player and the Team Captain as designated on the TennisLink team roster, with a copy to the District League Coordinator.

 

[JavierLW]

No, his 6.0 play was fall of 2006. Then ratings came out. Then his 7.0 play (and everything else) came after that.

The other thing could be that a mixed exclusive rating is just much less precise than a regular rating.

But you make a good point. When you're above level, you know it. At which point, you should bow out of playing the lower level and play the higher level. If you decide to risk it and get nailed, that's too bad.

Another friend of mine just got a DQ on the eve of the 2.5 playoffs. In September 2006, she correctly (IMHO) self-rated at 2.5. She played 5.5 combo and lost a single 6.0 mixed match in 2006, so the computer didn't give her a computer rating. She played more combo in 2007 and took some lessons. She then played a bunch of 2.5 singles and doubles, winning handily.

It's a shame. I seriously doubt many captains would have even taken her onto their 3.0 teams, so she didn't have much choice about playing 2.5. And now her team goes to districts and she sits home.

Ah, the pain of the self-rated player!

I think the Mixed Exclusive rating would of only counted from 6.0 then. Here 7.0 results are probally meaningless.

Im not sure if the M rating is like the self rating (where it doesnt get averaged into your actual match results) but if not it should be. Whole diffrent game and it's easy to get misrated from it.....

Hey, at least she got to play a lot of tennis over the entire summer. That's my big problem with all the crying about this. For most of us we are playing league tennis because we want to play 10 matches (or more in your case) during the year, but most of the people who are crying about it are only focused on what happens in 2 or 3 weekends out of the whole year (which they know they are usually going to be there for)

Is it really worth it to play an entire year of mostly easily won matches just for 2 weekends?? Maybe it is to some people but then you ought to have some risk associated with it.

 

[JavierLW]

Cindy,
Yes, I'm sure. It's why I'm always a little nervous when my players play "up". Here's the rule from 2007 USTA/MAS League:

a. During local league: that player shall be disqualified, and if the player is self-rated, all matches played at that level shall be forfeited. If the player is computer rated and ONLY competing at that level and not a higher level, then only the last match played shall be forfeited. If the computer rated player is also playing at a higher level, then all matches played at disqualified level shall be forfeited. The player may register on a team at the higher level if otherwise eligible to do so. The Sectional office shall issue notice of NTRP disqualification promptly to the player and the Team Captain as designated on the TennisLink team roster, with a copy to the District League Coordinator.

I like this rule. Although in our league we have now changed it so you lose all of your matches no matter what so we dont need it.

In most leagues your team plays 10 matches or less, that's not really enough to think that someone is going to just get unlucky and get better during that time and get DQ'ed. Id challenge anyone to find a player who started out the season slow, and then somehow started whipping people in the end and got DQ'ed.

(it's almost mathmatically impossible because your last 3 rating results get averaged in with your last match result)