Mixed Shootout - what am I doing?

[Dartagnan64]

So i signed up for a Club mixed doubles shootout. 2 groups 4.5 and above and 3.0-4.0. So I signed up for the 3.0-4.0 as I'm not in the class to play open level players. Schedules come out and virtually every woman that signed up was a bare 3.0. Maybe a few 3.5s and no 4.0's. The guys are a more reasonable mix of skill levels but there are also too many women to men so my first match will be playing with a 3.0 woman against 2 other 3.0 women. What have I done to myself?

I know that winning will require me to stalk the T and hit all the moonballs out of the air and likely scare the crap out of these ladies. Or i could just be nice, play 1 up 1 back tennis, accept losses graciously and get out of Dodge as fast as I can.

It's the kobayashi maru scenario of mixed.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

So i signed up for a Club mixed doubles shootout. 2 groups 4.5 and above and 3.0-4.0. So I signed up for the 3.0-4.0 as I'm not in the class to play open level players. Schedules come out and virtually every woman that signed up was a bare 3.0. Maybe a few 3.5s and no 4.0's. The guys are a more reasonable mix of skill levels but there are also too many women to men so my first match will be playing with a 3.0 woman against 2 other 3.0 women. What have I done to myself?

I know that winning will require me to stalk the T and hit all the moonballs out of the air and likely scare the crap out of these ladies. Or i could just be nice, play 1 up 1 back tennis, accept losses graciously and get out of Dodge as fast as I can.

It's the kobayashi maru scenario of mixed.

Well, Kirk figured it out and so can you.

 

[OnTheLine]

Don't forget that a lot of those 3.0 women are actually 3.5s right now ... as they weren't bumped at EOY 2020 and a 3.0 typically is on a steep improvement trajectory, especially if they play mixed.

Women are also not as afraid of a middle-aged 3.5 male's overhead as you seem to believe. They rarely need to be afraid of it ... it is typically just not all that good.

Be careful as you may just lose that first match. Most likely the two women that signed up to play mixed together are likely in the group of "not actually a 3.0"

 

[KamehamehaBackhand]

While they could just as easily be perennial 3.0s who are more in it for the social aspect, I think OTL's mindset is the right one to go in with. I find that if I go into a match thinking my opponents are no good, I play lazy, flat-footed, and unfocused. I think this is especially the case in doubles where the match isn't always on your racket and it may be easier to turn the ship around if things start out poorly.

Or if they do turn out to be on the weaker end of the scale, use it as an opportunity to poach more than you would in your normal doubles. Or work on other shots you wouldn't try in a more even setting. Then if you stay in the tournament long enough you may find some more exciting matches near the end.

 

[sureshs]

Women are also not as afraid of a middle-aged 3.5 male's overhead as you seem to believe. They rarely need to be afraid of it ... it is typically just not all that good.

LOL

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

Women are also not as afraid of a middle-aged 3.5 male's overhead as you seem to believe. They rarely need to be afraid of it ... it is typically just not all that good.

It may not be good but it might be poorly-controlled.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

Don't forget that a lot of those 3.0 women are actually 3.5s right now ... as they weren't bumped at EOY 2020 and a 3.0 typically is on a steep improvement trajectory, especially if they play mixed.

Isn't that dependent on how long they've been a 3.0? If they've been there for 10 years, chances are they're past the steep part of the curve. If they just picked up tennis and are athletic, there's a much better chance.

 

[Dartagnan64]

Don't forget that a lot of those 3.0 women are actually 3.5s right now ... as they weren't bumped at EOY 2020 and a 3.0 typically is on a steep improvement trajectory, especially if they play mixed.

Women are also not as afraid of a middle-aged 3.5 male's overhead as you seem to believe. They rarely need to be afraid of it ... it is typically just not all that good.

Be careful as you may just lose that first match. Most likely the two women that signed up to play mixed together are likely in the group of "not actually a 3.0"

I know all these members since it's a club event and I've played with most of them in a few mixers. I know exactly what I'm going to face. No one is surprising anyone. Generally in the mixers you are there for fun and just hanging out. In the shootouts, there are prizes to be won so people definitely try a little harder and in the past it would bring out a lot of the 3.5-4.0 women. Not so this time.

Well, Kirk figured it out and so can you.

Kirk cheated. Not sure I can cheat my way out of this scenario.

 

[esgee48]

I have to play MXD with Da GF every once in a while. I am dragged into it kicking and screaming. Play at 1/2 speed and just going for angles. Most of the guys there know I won't unload one, so it's just for giggles and lunch. I would never sign up for something like this, so how did this happen to you? You probably had a Senior Moment.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

Kirk cheated. Not sure I can cheat my way out of this scenario.

I'm sure he characterized it as "changing the terms of engagement".

 

[Dartagnan64]

I have to play MXD with Da GF every once in a while. I am dragged into it kicking and screaming. Play at 1/2 speed and just going for angles. Most of the guys there know I won't unload one, so it's just for giggles and lunch. I would never sign up for something like this, so how did this happen to you? You probably had a Senior Moment.

Well TBH it's the first club event in the pandemic era so I was excited just to play a mini tournament. And in the past they were usually populated by the better women in the 3.5-4.0 levels and the 3.0 women tended to stay away as the events were a bit too competitive for their liking. But I guess that attitude changed.

I've decided to just play it like a mixer and not a competitive event. Nobody wins hitting hard volleys or strong second serve returns into women's bellies

 

[Cashman]

Play left handed

 

[esgee48]

Definition of a Gentleman

 

[Dartagnan64]

Well the first match was worse than I thought. My partner was an older lady who may have been a 3.0 30 years ago but certainly was not that level currently. I started off with the "you go stand up by the net" strategy but she didn't feel comfortable with that and quickly moved back to her mid court service line position where she proceeded to either miss every groundstroke or bunt back sitters that the opponents just fired back at her. Her serves were taken by our opponents at the service line making my poaching game very challenging as I had to give away my movement if I was to get to the ball in time. If the ball ever got past me, it was usually point over.

I made 5 unforced errors and 3 double faults and we still lost the pro set 5-8.

At least today my partner will be a true 3.0. Problem is we are playing a 4.0 male and a 3.5 woman so I suspect I'm in for a similar experience.

 

[Uncoil]

Stop playing mixed. It's not worth it.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

Stop playing mixed. It's not worth it.

I love MXDs. For one thing, it's my main league chance to face a 5.0 guy [as part of a 5.0/4.0 pair] and I enjoy those opportunities because I get to play against abilities that I don't normally see.

It's another dimension of tennis. But, just as some don't like doubles and stick to singles, not everyone enjoys it.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

Well the first match was worse than I thought. My partner was an older lady who may have been a 3.0 30 years ago but certainly was not that level currently. I started off with the "you go stand up by the net" strategy but she didn't feel comfortable with that and quickly moved back to her mid court service line position where she proceeded to either miss every groundstroke or bunt back sitters that the opponents just fired back at her. Her serves were taken by our opponents at the service line making my poaching game very challenging as I had to give away my movement if I was to get to the ball in time. If the ball ever got past me, it was usually point over.

I made 5 unforced errors and 3 double faults and we still lost the pro set 5-8.

At least today my partner will be a true 3.0. Problem is we are playing a 4.0 male and a 3.5 woman so I suspect I'm in for a similar experience.

You told her what to do without first asking her what her comfort zone was?

You can only do so much before your own game starts deteriorating. The only thing I might have tried is to move closer to the middle when my partner was serving and make random mad poaches occasionally. I'll get beaten DTL more often but I would hope to disrupt their returns.

I would also have cranked up the aggression on my serve, fully accepting that my DFs would rise.

 

[OnTheLine]

Well the first match was worse than I thought. My partner was an older lady who may have been a 3.0 30 years ago but certainly was not that level currently. I started off with the "you go stand up by the net" strategy but she didn't feel comfortable with that and quickly moved back to her mid court service line position where she proceeded to either miss every groundstroke or bunt back sitters that the opponents just fired back at her. Her serves were taken by our opponents at the service line making my poaching game very challenging as I had to give away my movement if I was to get to the ball in time. If the ball ever got past me, it was usually point over.

I made 5 unforced errors and 3 double faults and we still lost the pro set 5-8.

At least today my partner will be a true 3.0. Problem is we are playing a 4.0 male and a 3.5 woman so I suspect I'm in for a similar experience.

Oh man .... you forgot the #1 rule in Mixed: If you win it is because the woman played well. If you lost, it is because the man played poorly.
(yes I am joking but I swear that many ascribe to this!)

I do not think I like how your club is arranging this mixer: You have a first match with a 6.0 pair vs a 6.5 (on paper) pair; a second match with a 6.5 pair vs a 7.5 pair. That is a mess.

Especially an older lady with a low rank, you simply cannot tell them to hug the net unless it is by mutual agreement. Many are simply not comfortable there because they no longer trust their reaction time.

Many men play from the baseline on their partner's weak serves. The next time you are in this position, I recommend starting there ... it gives you much more of a chance ... you will be defending 3/4 of the baseline but you have a shot.

 

[Moveforwardalways]

Women are also not as afraid of a middle-aged 3.5 male's overhead as you seem to believe. They rarely need to be afraid of it ... it is typically just not all that good.

As a higher level male, I am definitely afraid of 3.5 men’s overheads. They’re like a loose cannon that can go off at any moment, no control and hit as hard as possible.

 

[ChaelAZ]

So i signed up for a Club mixed doubles shootout. 2 groups 4.5 and above and 3.0-4.0. So I signed up for the 3.0-4.0 as I'm not in the class to play open level players. Schedules come out and virtually every woman that signed up was a bare 3.0. Maybe a few 3.5s and no 4.0's. The guys are a more reasonable mix of skill levels but there are also too many women to men so my first match will be playing with a 3.0 woman against 2 other 3.0 women. What have I done to myself?

I know that winning will require me to stalk the T and hit all the moonballs out of the air and likely scare the crap out of these ladies. Or i could just be nice, play 1 up 1 back tennis, accept losses graciously and get out of Dodge as fast as I can.

It's the kobayashi maru scenario of mixed.

Sounds like practice time for control/touch, footwork, and second serves.

 

[Dartagnan64]

Well Pro Set 2 and 3 went about as expected. Lost 3-8 to the 3.5/4.0 pairing then played with a 3.5 lady against a 3.5 male and 3.0 lady and won 8-3.

In all the matches there was always one person that just wasn't up to par and every point they got hit at relentlessly until they gave up an easy putaway or made an error.

In the pro set we won, we just went at the 3.0 lady as she hung at the service line again (what is it with 3.0 ladies and playing tennis from the service line?) and so I hit dippers at her feet . When she was back at the baseline we realized she could lob pretty well off a regular groundstroke so I asked my partner to hit short and soft to her and make her move forward while I hit big loopy heavy topspin moon balls. She couldn't handle either shot. Felt bad for the 3.5 guy because I don't think we hit to him at all once we realized his partner's weaknesses.

The best part about the tournament was watching the 4.5+ playoffs. Just beautiful doubles to watch. There was one point where the male player tracked down a lob, hit a beautiful tweener to keep the point going, after several shots more, got lobbed again but this time he climbed the ladder to hit a Pete Sampras style overhead smash winner. Amazing athleticism.

do not think I like how your club is arranging this mixer: You have a first match with a 6.0 pair vs a 6.5 (on paper) pair; a second match with a 6.5 pair vs a 7.5 pair. That is a mess.

That was indicated to the organizers. They really needed a 3rd category. The lowbie 3.0 ladies really dragged the format down and everyone I talked to after was complaining about the quality of the matches in the 3.0-4.0 group. A good 4.0 male is just not going to have fun with a low level 3.0 woman. It's too big a gap.

You told her what to do without first asking her what her comfort zone was?

Actually no. I asked her what she felt best at and she said baseline lobbing (which she ended up being terrible at BTW). I said we'll try to get her back doing that as much as possible but on my serve I asked her to hug the net. We were only playing against a pair of 3.0-3.5 women, so I didn't think it was a big ask to get her nearer the net.

As some others have said I probably should have just put her on the baseline. My reason for having 3.0 women hug the net is that even if they frame every thing that comes their way, most of them will go over. Do a few of those and the returns start coming to me. Whereas any position away from the net is going to get the return back at them because "weakest link".

In my next pro set I did get the 3.0 woman to successfully stand at the net and the 3 games we won were my service games.

 

[Moon Shooter]

As a higher level male, I am definitely afraid of 3.5 men’s overheads. They’re like a loose cannon that can go off at any moment, no control and hit as hard as possible.

As lower level male I also vouch for that. I am not even a 3.5 yet and I find it very hard to resist hitting uncontrolled overheads as hard as possible. Seeing that floater, I'm like a dog seeing a squirrel. I tend to go barreling over anything in my path to rip into it. Then I watch in delight (or horror) to see where it lands.

I hope to be playing some mixed doubles too, but I haven't yet heard back from the captain confirming he has an extra spot for me.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

As lower level male I also vouch for that. I am not even a 3.5 yet and I find it very hard to resist hitting uncontrolled overheads as hard as possible. Seeing that floater, I'm like a dog seeing a squirrel. I tend to go barreling over anything in my path to rip into it. Then I watch in delight (or horror) to see where it lands.

I hope to be playing some mixed doubles too, but I haven't yet heard back from the captain confirming he has an extra spot for me.

Do some drills where you win a point for an OH winner [feeds are all lobs] but lose 5 for making an error. That will change your behavior right quick.

 

[CosmosMpower]

Sounds awful, 3.0 3.5 level mens league tennis is already horrible enough.

 

[zaskar1]

So i signed up for a Club mixed doubles shootout. 2 groups 4.5 and above and 3.0-4.0. So I signed up for the 3.0-4.0 as I'm not in the class to play open level players. Schedules come out and virtually every woman that signed up was a bare 3.0. Maybe a few 3.5s and no 4.0's. The guys are a more reasonable mix of skill levels but there are also too many women to men so my first match will be playing with a 3.0 woman against 2 other 3.0 women. What have I done to myself?

I know that winning will require me to stalk the T and hit all the moonballs out of the air and likely scare the crap out of these ladies. Or i could just be nice, play 1 up 1 back tennis, accept losses graciously and get out of Dodge as fast as I can.

It's the kobayashi maru scenario of mixed.

dart
i feel your pain. in our sunday morning social, the 3.5 ladies are ok and not afraid. the 3.0 ladies, cant run or are intimidated by any ball with decent pace hit in their direction, if you hit an overhead on their side, they say "hey, isnt this suppose to be a friendly game"
you are reduced to practicing drop shots and lobs, as well as no pace groundstrokes.
but hitting these offspeed junk balls makes you a better player
z

 

[J D]

Many seniors stand at the service line. That way they can cover drop shots and lobs. The good seniors get very adept at taking the ball out of the air or half volleying from this position.

3.0 ladies with 4.0 guys is difficult in any competitive format. I would still have played but had a very “social tennis” mindset going in.

 

[Dartagnan64]

Many seniors stand at the service line. That way they can cover drop shots and lobs. The good seniors get very adept at taking the ball out of the air or half volleying from this position.

3.0 ladies with 4.0 guys is difficult in any competitive format. I would still have played but had a very “social tennis” mindset going in.

That's pretty much what I did as soon as I realized my partner wasn't all in on trying to win. Let her play, do my thing and let the chips fall.

I agree that the less mobile you are, the further back you need to play if you don't have a partner that is mobile. I try to tell my senior and lady partners to get to the net and I'll cover the lobs. But they are too used to "My side my lob" doubles.

 

[Deleted member 776614]

I say, fake an injury. It sounds like a recipe for disaster (based on my recent experience.)