Modern FH - comments?
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Bungalo Bill
G.O.A.T.
tlm said:
tLM,
I have watched several clips of all onehanders on Johns site. Very few clips have shown the player with a nearly complete backswing when the ball bounces. And all of these clip (the ones with the pro nearly completing the backswing at the bounce) the pro was hitting a slower incoming ball, so he had plenty of time to take his backswing.
In nearly every clip, the backswing was at its highest point BEFORE the ball bounced. When a pro was fielding a ball that was nearing his feet, the backswing was complete and a good portion of the forward swing was already performed.
I want to save you from mediocre tennis. You are a smart man and I am glad you are studying but you have yet to acknowledge the countless times the pros had their racquet back BEFORE the bounce. You have yet to do that.
If you want to play good tennis, you must have the backswing complete and ready to step forward into the ball BEFORE the bounce.
This sets you up for a couple things:
1. Taking the ball earlier
2. Taking the ball on the rise.
These two things are a sign of an advanced player. Completing your backswing and being ready to come forward at the bounce is paramount to advanced level tennis. Otherwise, you will be late and it will be difficult to time when you need to complete the backswing on the many different kinds of balls you will be hitting.
Completing the backswing BEFORE it bounces simplifies your forward swing to all types of balls.
Bungalo Bill
G.O.A.T.
tlm said:
tlm,
I have watched several clips of all onehanders on Johns site. Very few clips (two) have shown the player with a nearly complete backswing when the ball bounces. And these two clips (the ones with the pro nearly completing the backswing at the bounce) the pro was hitting a slower incoming ball, so he had plenty of time to complete his backswing when the ball bounced.
In nearly every clip, the backswing was at its highest point BEFORE the ball bounced. When a pro was fielding a ball that was nearing his feet, the backswing was complete and a good portion of the forward swing was already performed.
I want to save you from mediocre tennis. You are a smart man and I am glad you are studying but you have yet to acknowledge the countless times the pros had their racquet back BEFORE the bounce. You have yet to do that.
If you want to play good tennis, you must have the backswing complete and ready to step forward into the ball BEFORE the bounce.
This sets you up for a couple things:
1. Taking the ball earlier
2. Taking the ball on the rise.
These two things are a sign of an advanced player. Completing your backswing and being ready to come forward at the bounce is paramount to advanced level tennis. Otherwise, you will be late more often then not and it will be difficult to time when you need to complete the backswing on the many different kinds of balls you will be hitting.
Completing the backswing BEFORE it bounces simplifies your forward swing to all types of balls. We are not lying about this.
Marius_Hancu
Talk Tennis Guru
fastdunn said:
This was discussed in this similarly looking thread by me and Mr. Yandell several months ago:
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=43284
I called it then a hitch. Mr. Yandell called it an incomplete turn. Same thing, in effect.
And just by a happy coincidence, some of the other personages were present too
Marius_Hancu said:This was discussed in this similarly looking thread by me and Mr. Yandell several months ago:
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=43284
I called it then a hitch. Mr. Yandell called it an incomplete turn. Same thing, in effect.
And just by a happy coincidence, some of the other personages were present too
Thank you Marius for pointing this out.
I notice that hitch too but what is consequence of this hitch
that actually produces poor forehands ? I notice her contact
point is tad late and her upper body is not so quite.....
Marius_Hancu
Talk Tennis Guru
fastdunn said:
I read that somewhere that if any hitch is longer than 200 milliseconds, it becomes a problem. I never timed theirs, but I was able to detect it on TV, thus ...
I still don't know where I read that. Mr. Yandell asked me about the source then, still don't remember it. Perhaps next year
Anyway, if someone has a hitch on the serve, you can guarantee they don't maximize the speed and put more stress on the shoulder for example. Thus this is to be watched for in tennis.
tlm
G.O.A.T.
Okay bb you made the point that the backswing varys depending on ball speed,which i agree.+ i will say you did admit that on some of the strokes you saw the backswing was not complete before bounce.I thought i made point that i was talking more about the strokes they had time to set up on.bb i was under impression that i want the whole swing to be one takeback+forward swing together,so i think depending on ball speed like you pointed out, it will vary on how much backswing is completed before or after bounce.Tell me if that is incorrect.I thought if you takeback to fast on a slow ball then you would have to hesitate swing.The pictures of nadals swing sure looks like he is all the way back.But most of the clips i have seen do not show me proof of takeback before bounce.Tell me were to view these+ i will be glad to check them out.Some definitely show a % of takeback complete before bounce but not entire takeback.another thing bb would you comment on the clip of roddick, Am i wrong in saying that it looks like the last part of takeback is after bounce?I like to strike ball when it is starting to drop,if i have time instead of on the rise.Will that style get in the way of advancing your game?
Marius_Hancu said:
World Class Tennis Technique, page 163:
"Previous tennis literature indicated that there was a continuous acceleration from the backwsing through to contact with the ball. However, research has highlighted that a slight pause at the end of the backswing does occur during the production of the forehand stroke. Experts agree that this pause does not have a detrimental effect as long as it does not exceed 200 milliseconds. If the pause is any longer, the player will lose the accumulated energy."
This is in the Forehands chapter by Miguel Crespo and Jose Higueras.
Bungalo Bill
G.O.A.T.
tlm said:
Tlm,
I think we are getting there in how we are saying and perceiving things. We have to take the Wagner hat off because I think his wording is what is confusing the issue here. There is never absolutes in tennis, however, their are near absolutes. So here is what I saw and let's see if you agree.
I saw nearly all of the backswings completed on every stroke before or during the bounce. Only two of them went a little higher on the backswing which was more of a contribution of generating more swing speed for a slower ball. Remember for the most part, pros hit the opposite as us. They develop higher swing speeds on slower balls and slow down their swing speed for faster shots using the pace of the ball for power.
Getting back....all of the pros completed at least 95% (with the majority at 100%) of their backswing before the ball bounced.
Your are not wrong that on some of the shots the pro performed a very small portion of what was left of the backswing after or during the ball bounce. But this happened on balls that the pro arrived well ahead of the shot and on slower incoming balls. It usually happened on balls that the pro had to step into the court a little to get closer to the ball.
So yes, you are correct that this does happen, but you are not correct that it happens as their normal swing. This is something that happens on occasion and on certain balls which should be the case.
Addtionally, you have to realize this is not the norm for their strokes (to complete the backswing during or after the ball bounce) and should be taken as the exception rather then the rule.
To be a good player, use the rule to prepare early. Complete the backswing at least slightly before the ball bounces so you can put all your energy into the forward motion and be on time for all types of balls. This should look smooth and rhythmic which is were I believe the confusion lies.
Mercy, Oscar must really be enjoying this. Doesn't the title of his book (which has been changed although the content is basically the same) "Learn to Play Tennis in 2 Hours" (think thats close) tell you something? I'm having a hard time realizing that many are taking him so seriousely.
Marius_Hancu
Talk Tennis Guru
Vin,
Thank you for finding that reference
Thank you for finding that reference
