Mojo, Rabbit, Cat 8 VE vs T10 VE MP

[vin]

Mojo, Rabbit, or anyone else,

I'd appreciate some help narrowing down a decision between these two frames. I believe I hit more damaging shots with the T10 (surprising, but confirmed by my opponent tonight), but I think the swingweight is too high and I can get sloppy with it. I may not hit as hard with the Cat, but I think it's pretty close. I also felt like I could do whatever I wanted with this racket, but I didn't like how light it felt. I definitely want something in the middle of these two.

In general, I think the T10 increases the magnitude of my weapons while the Cat makes them easier to execute.

So here are a few questions.

1. Do you think I'd be better off adding weight to the Cat or trimming the bumper of the T10? They're demos, so there's not too much I can do to them, especially not bumper trimming.

2. The Tour 8 VE and Tour 9 VE seem to fall between the two as I seem to need, but they both seem stiff. I like the soft feel. I actually prefer the feel of my T10 VE Mid which feels softer than all of the above. Is it safe to say that I can rule the 8 and 9 out just based on stiffness figuring that I could achieve the same results with modifications to the Cat or T10?

Hey Rabbit, thanks for pushing the Cat. I would have never considered it otherwise.

Thanks,
Vin

 

[louis netman]

I've played with both the trimmed & customized VEMP (360g, 12pts HL) and a weighted/customized Cat 8VE (350g 10 PTS hl), both with gut hybrids. The trimmed bumper makes the VEMP easier to get around at the price of extra juice. IMO, the Cat needed the extra weight because I just can't get accustomed to lighter sticks. I couldn't deal with the sound and feel of the Cat, although my results were quite good. The VEMP is still quite a weapon with the reduced headweight and the feel was far superior to the Cat. If you don't mind the feel & sound of the Cat, it can be a fierce weapon with some customizing...

 

[NoBadMojo]

I think based upon what you say, yes I would rule out the other 8 series frame and the 9's.
As to the 10VEMP my experience is different than Netman's. I think I picked up juice by trimming the bumper guard, rather than loosing. I play mine w. the cut bumpers and leather and no lead. You really arent cutting out much mass by trimming the bumper, but you do signficantly lower the swingweight so i think what you gain in headspeed far outweighs the very small loss in mass. This also eliminated the feeling that the stringbed was inconsistent (it wasnt..i was just hitting late at times because i couldnt move the frame fast enough before). If you've hit the Gen2, you may think the 10VEMP with the modification swings a lot like the Gen2, but with a lot more juice..maybe around a 315 swingweight.
As to the Cat8VE, I mostly defer to Rabbit as he's got a lot more experience with it than I. I hit with it and liked it..it had some lead in the handle. I can see why Rabbit likes this frame coming from the C10 as it is a very soft hit. I just like my frames a touch firmer, and I think the Cat8VE is significantly less powerful stock than the 10VEMP.

 

[bcaz]

Hey, Vin, if I remember you've had shoulder problems in the past. The Volkl family is generally very arm-friendly. I've recently put leather grips on each of my V1s -- a 10-year ann version (backup) and my DNX game frame. They now weigh about 11.3 oz with the leather and an overgrip; I haven't checked the balance since putting the leather on, but I'm sure they're more HL than stock; I'm off lead tape for now. They're also 27", which is good for the arm, too. In spite of the firm leather and the RDC, whatever it means, these sticks offer a cushioned ride, great racquet feel, filthy spin, decent touch, and lots of power. I'm very happy with them. Don't write off the V1 as a tweener. It'll do whatever you want it to do.

 

[vin]

Thanks guys. I don't think there's an easy answer to this, but at least I've found two rackets that work well for me. I may buy one of each so that I can do all the customizing I want.

If the T10 truly swings like the Gen 2 with the bumper mod, then I should be fine with it. Even the Gen 2 feels a tiny bit heavy to me, but it doesn't seem to affect my play negatively. I mishit noticably fewer balls with the Gen 2.

bcaz, I haven't had trouble with my shoulder in almost two years (where's some wood to knock on?), but I am still conscious of it. Thanks for the suggestion on the V1. I've tried the Classic briefly and like the Cat 8 VE better. I don't remember the specs of the V1, but even in stock form, I liked the swing and contact of the Cat 8 VE more.

 

[Rabbit]

Thanks, mojo, as usual MOJO SPEAK TRUTH.

Vin - you're in the same boat I was. I loved the C10, just loved it. However, I began to realize that I played my best tennis with a lighter frame. Way back when I played with the Hammer 5.0, I was getting inordinate amounts of pace and spin on the ball. I strung it at 65 with ProBlend and my arm developed TE really badly. I had a really positive experience with the C9 too, but migrated to the C10 because of its flexiness, stability, and overall playability. I have noticed that I didn't get the amount of spin that I used to.

I also began to notice that the pro that I take from uses a Pure Drive, he is an ex-ATP player. I buddy of mine who played DI tennis at my alma mata also plays with the Pure Drive. The pro has a bit of lead on his, but nothing out of the ordinary in terms of weight.

TW had sent me the regular V-8. I really really liked it, but feared the stiffness wouldn't be good for the wing. So, when the local pro shop got the Cat 8, they called and I demoed. It wasn't selling too well. I think I figured it out. The model number disuades higher level players from trying it. The look and head size are also turn offs to "players". Lower level players find it too underpowered and too heavy. Well, as Goldie Locks said, I found it just right. Other people, including some of the teaching pros, who've seen me play with it have tried it. To a person, they've all remarked in the positive regarding. It is a fine frame with great playing characteristics.

My recommendation is that you play around with a little lead at the 3 and 9 and maybe under the grip toward the top of the grip. Then, and this is really critical, put a leather grip on it. Trust me on this, it makes all the difference in the world. Drak, if he's still posting, can bear out this observation.

Hope this helps.

 

[vin]

Thanks Rabbit.

The leather grip is for weight, right? If so, weight is weight and I can just put lead under the stock grip, right?

Did you ever hit with the Tour 10 VE MP or the Gen 2?

 

[AndrewD]

Vin,

Ive switched over from the Gen2 to the t10mp v-engine and find, for me, the v-engine to be much better fit. The v-engine is slightly heavier due to its having a leather grip whereas the Gen2 has a synthetic. Both racquets have the bumper trimmed to almost the exact same spot, however, I find the v-engine swings lighter than the Gen2 even though, going on original swingweight, it shouldn't.

The V-engine allows me to produce a heavier hit, regardless of the amount of spin I apply. The added stiffness is a boon at the net but it still has more than enough flex to provide excellent touch. I dont feel the flex in the same way as I do with the Gen2 but I personally don't like an ultra flexy feel on the volley so it works out well.

Going purely on 'feel' - which is subjective- I find the V also provides a more solid response on all of my shots. I don't have a fast swing and dont generate huge amounts of topspin but I dont find that to hinder control. I aim to hit on the rise and utilise my opponents speed of shot which the firmer and 'meatier' V allows me to do better than the Gen2. If I want to chip and charge it seems to provide more weight through the shot, more stability and more control so I get greater penetration on the approach.

The only area Ive struggled a bit is the serve. Getting good power but not as much slice as Im used to. Kick is good but just not 'feeling' the slice yet.

 

[thejuice]

The only area Ive struggled a bit is the serve. Getting good power but not as much slice as Im used to. Kick is good but just not 'feeling' the slice yet.

I almost totally agree with Andrew's review except that I got great pace and spin on my serves with the T10 VEMP. I have been hitting a few different sticks lately and the VEMP is high on my list so far (I just happen to like the Technifibre 325 a little more). It could be that I am able to get more spin because I'm left-handed (however I don't believe in the myth that left-handed players get more spin on the kick and topspin serves).

 

[vin]

Hey Andrew,

That heavier ball has certainly caught my attention. Instead of always swinging at 90% with my VE Mid to get the power I want, I can take a more controlled swing with the MP at 70% - 80% and get MORE power. Slowing down my swing was the key for me in figuring out this racket. When I first started hitting with it, I was swinging away like I did with my mid and the results were not so great.

I think my liking of the Gen 2 is based on how well it works with the 90% swing, but swinging that fast that often is not in my best interest, and for me, the faster swing was required with this frame to get the power I wanted. So even though I like the feel of the Gen 2 more, I decided the VE MP was the better choice for my game between the two.

I serve well with all three frames, but noticed, with the VE MP particularly, that once I start arming the ball, my serve will start to deteriorate. This racket may be forgiving in terms of sweet spot, but I don't think it's forgiving at all with technique. It won't let you get away with arming the ball - on any shot. Or it at least doesn't let me get away with it.

 

[vin]

It could be that I am able to get more spin because I'm left-handed (however I don't believe in the myth that left-handed players get more spin on the kick and topspin serves).

I get plenty of spin and I'm right handed. But I was also getting good spin with my mid.

I don't know yet if I'd say that the Cat 8 VE has more spin potential, but so far, I do think it's easier to hit spin with. Not a big issue for me, but something I did notice.

 

[thejuice]

I get plenty of spin and I'm right handed. But I was also getting good spin with my mid.

I don't know yet if I'd say that the Cat 8 VE has more spin potential, but so far, I do think it's easier to hit spin with. Not a big issue for me, but something I did notice.

For me this thread is ironic because a guy I played with last night (a solid 4.5 player) was demoing a couple of sticks and was really pounding the ball with a Pure Drive. It is definitely a lighter frame than the FP Radical he also has been demoing. The differences were like night and day as he was able to produce some really heavy topspin with the PD. He commented that he likes more traditional, heavier frames but we couldn't ignore the oomph he was putting on the ball. Maybe it is the same deal with the Cat 8 vs. the T10.

 

[vin]

Maybe it is the same deal with the Cat 8 vs. the T10.

Depends on which T10. I think the T10 VE MP has MORE 'oomph' than the Cat 8, but also has the more traditional heavy racket feel. With the other T10's, I'd say it's similar deal with the Rad vs PD, at least with the Cat 8 at stock weight. Maybe with some lead the Cat 8 will match the power of the T10 VE MP. We'll see. Hopefully the maneuverability won't suffer much.

I tried the Flexpoint Radical also. Not a bad stick. Much better than the LM I thought. It swung easily for me, but for some reason I still got sloppy with it after a while. Based on the specs, I'm not sure why. I want to say because it's not that head light, but the Cat 8 is only 3 pts HL and I haven't gotten sloppy with it.

 

[Rabbit]

Thanks Rabbit.

The leather grip is for weight, right? If so, weight is weight and I can just put lead under the stock grip, right?

Did you ever hit with the Tour 10 VE MP or the Gen 2?

No, actually the leather grip changes the feel of the grip somewhat. I find it a much better hit with leather.

Yes, both. I liked the Tour 10 VE MP a lot, it had better feel than the Gen II, but not as good as the C10. The Gen II I found to be stiffer, more mainstream than the usual Volkl. I didn't think it was anywhere close to the C10 in terms of feel. The 10 VE MP is a great racket.

 

[Rabbit]

For me this thread is ironic because a guy I played with last night (a solid 4.5 player) was demoing a couple of sticks and was really pounding the ball with a Pure Drive. It is definitely a lighter frame than the FP Radical he also has been demoing. The differences were like night and day as he was able to produce some really heavy topspin with the PD. He commented that he likes more traditional, heavier frames but we couldn't ignore the oomph he was putting on the ball. Maybe it is the same deal with the Cat 8 vs. the T10.

That is exactly it! I liked heavier frames as well. But, results are what counts and I find mine significantly better with the 8. Most of the guys around here are migrating way from the traditional heavy player's frame to what is called a tweener. The Pure Drive continues to be the most popular choice, I just find it too dadgum stiff.

 

[vin]

I liked the Tour 10 VE MP a lot

Why did you choose the Cat 8 VE instead?

Edit: Nevermind, I missed your previous post which I think answers this question.

With the .5 oz you added to your Cat 8, I'm thinking it would be pretty close in weight to a T10 VE MP with a trimmed bumper.

 

[Rabbit]

Because the T10 VE didn't have as good a feel as the C10. The Cat 8 comes closer IMO to what I love about the C10. Also, I decided that I was looking to lose a little weight in my frame to help with manueverability and spin potential. the Cat 8 is custom built for that, lighter weight, but still of some heft. It is a great platform for adding lead, I've got 1/2 ounce on each. The frame also has an open 16X18 string pattern which helps with spin potential.

The main thing is how I play with the Cat 8. I just play better with it. I've said many times on here that it volleys better than anything I've ever hit with. It has done wonders for my net game. I play mostly doubles and the 8 is great in that respect. It has also added a little extra pop to my game. All in all, it is a more user friendly frame.

 

[NoBadMojo]

Vin if I my suggest..you've chosen two good frames here and have talked about both of these frames a bit and played with them a good amount i presume? they are two pretty different frames..one of them should be more appealing to you from a feel and performance standpoint. dont think how they might play if you tweak them up..think of which one plays best stock and go with that one...you can always tweak later. Also, as you evaluate frames, pay attention to what the ball is doing after the bounce rather than what it is doing in the air...thats' a lot more revealing. so pull the trigger on one of these frames and call it a day...they're both really good choices. no need to over process

 

[mark1]

That is exactly it! I liked heavier frames as well. But, results are what counts and I find mine significantly better with the 8. Most of the guys around here are migrating way from the traditional heavy player's frame to what is called a tweener. The Pure Drive continues to be the most popular choice, I just find it too dadgum stiff.

the exact reason that i am about to move to the C9 pro. i need a little less weight for my arm and to be consistent through a long match, but wanted to still have the flexy feel of volkl and the low power. I actually feel like the c9 pro has less power than the c10 and is more flexy. Definately less power than the T10MPVE thats for sure. Rabbit you used to play with the c9 right? How does that compare to the cat 8 v-engine?

 

[vin]

Those are good suggestions Mojo, thank you. If I don't have a clear decision after a few more times out, maybe I'll flip a coin. I agree, I'd like to call it a day and move on with life ASAP. I hate demoing. It's too much for my analytical mind to obsess over.

I'll let you guys know what I choose. Thanks for all the help.

 

[Marius_Hancu]

The V-engine allows me to produce a heavier hit, regardless of the amount of spin I apply.

The only area Ive struggled a bit is the serve. Getting good power but not as much slice as Im used to. Kick is good but just not 'feeling' the slice yet.

I play-tested the 10 V-Engine Mid today against O3 Tour, RDX500 MP and my own Tour 90 and PC600.

The Volkl holds his own against all from the baseline in terms of generating topspin and keeping the ball within bounds. It is amazing in this latter aspect. Much better control than O3 and a little bit better than RDX500 MP.

However, yes, on serve, it's not too impressive.
I am serving harder with both my Tour 90 and PC600.
Perhaps because my usual rackets are 380g minimum, thus have more lead at 3 and 9.

But the V-E might be on a par with RDX500 and the O3 in terms of serving.

This is an important consideration-the serving. In this respect only, if he hasn't done it already, I'd suggest Vin to test the V-E against LM Prestige. Otherwise, they might be comparable.

 

[vin]

I'd suggest Vin to test the V-E against LM Prestige.

I already did Marius. Nice stick, but not enough power. If I were to use this racket, I'd still have to be swinging at 90% most of the time to get the power I want. The only improvement then from my VE Mid would be the bigger head size. With the two rackets I'm deciding between, I get both the bigger head size and the power I want from a 70% or 80% swing, which is much easier to reproduce over and over.

I know I initially said in another one of my threads that I like the idea of taking big swings without worry, which the VE Mid and Prestige allow, but I'm coming to realize that it's not what produces the best results. Through the VE MP, I'm starting to appreciate and enjoy the idea of letting the racket help out and getting good power from a more controlled swing. Less mishits that way too!

For what it's worth, I serve pretty well with the VE Mid. But I serve even better with the VE MP.

 

[louis netman]

the exact reason that i am about to move to the C9 pro. i need a little less weight for my arm and to be consistent through a long match, but wanted to still have the flexy feel of volkl and the low power. I actually feel like the c9 pro has less power than the c10 and is more flexy. Definately less power than the T10MPVE thats for sure. Rabbit you used to play with the c9 right? How does that compare to the cat 8 v-engine?

I still have half a dozen c9's left and have them weighted to the same specs as my C10 (364g 12 pts HL) and they have a bit more oomph than the c10 due in part to the stiffer hoop. USRSA has the power rating of the stock c10 at 1762 and the stock c9 at 1773, so statistically, a mere stock c9 should even have more power than the c10. Add some weight to the hoop and handle of the C9 and you've got a juiced-up, orange-flavored, Halloween wand!

 

[Rabbit]

Rabbit you used to play with the c9 right? How does that compare to the cat 8 v-engine?

It is very close. It is more flexible and has a slightly larger head. I think it does everything as well as the C9 except volley. In that respect, it is a wand.

I also agree with Louis about the Halloween graphics. That was one thing I never cared for.

 

[max]

Netman: that's just what I've done. . . albeit, weighted to 349 grams. I'd still like a bit more power though.

 

[SliceServe]

Interesting Rabbit.

Cat8 more flexible (or plays more flexible) than the C9. The C9 rated a 60 RDC by TW (racquet finder) where the Cat 8 is a 63.

Volkl must have engineered a nice flex pattern into that frame. I was staying away from it, because I have found that I generally have problems with modern racquets with a RDC rating over 60. Maybe worth a playtest some day.

I played for 8 months with the Cat10. Shots hit in the middle to lower 2/3 of the racquet face were great. Shots hit in the upper third were very harsh and caused me problems.

How would you compare the flex of the the CAT 10 to the CAT8?

 

[Rabbit]

I think the 8 played more flexible than the 10. The 10 had a unique feel to it. At the time I hit with it, I attributed that to the catapult system. I don't think so now and just wonder if it was different layup that made it feel that way. The 8 feels like it has more flex in the head and is about as stiff through the shoulders and below.

 

[vin]

I just realized that the Catapult technology actually involves real moving springs. Is this a cause for concern in terms of feel and performance of the racket changing over time?

 

[Rabbit]

Nah, probably not. Besides, you'll probably change frames before that even becomes a consideration.

 

[NoBadMojo]

The Cat10 used a unique catapult spring..it was different than the other catapult springs. this frame was an almost, but not quite in my estmation.