Thundergod
Hall of Fame
Glad for Nishikori. I like watching him when he's not Injurikori. He really needed the ranking points.
Montecarlo 2018 SF: Kei Nishikori vs [3] Alexander Zverev
cc0509
Talk Tennis Guru
Nadal is just too good on clay when he's fit and healthy. He's simply a superior class to everybody else. It is what it is.
sportmac
Hall of Fame
Mainad
Bionic Poster
Always the danger with Kei (after all it's what he did when he had Rafa on the ropes in 2014 Madrid) but I hope he won't. Can't see him having much left to tackle Rafa though. Great for him to be back making Masters finals though considering he was still playing Challengers just a few weeks ago!
mike danny
Bionic Poster
So what will Nishikori's ranking be on Monday?
D
Deleted member 756486
Guest
I’ll take the humble Japanese veteran over the arrogant Russian kid who thinks he’s a big dog.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
You know it's a weak era when a Challenger-level player can reach a masters final.
cc0509
Talk Tennis Guru
Zverev needs a new coach, a fresh voice. He needs to tweak several areas and that will make the difference, IMO. Otherwise, he may stall. He needs to get somebody like Lendl in there.
Steve0904
Talk Tennis Guru
Don't really care about that either tbh. Zverev certainly seems like an attention seeker who can be a bit of a whiny brat at times, but I just laugh at it all most of the time.
Plamen1234
Hall of Fame
I think 20 or 21.He will have 1880 points
Mainad
Bionic Poster
Will definitely be back in the top 20 (by my reckoning about 17 or 18 if he loses tomorrow, 12 or 13 if he wins).
Plamen1234
Hall of Fame
D
Deleted member 756486
Guest
I wish Zverev would leave us alone and count his millions.
Steve0904
Talk Tennis Guru
Yeah, he needs someone who'll lay down the law with him because he seems to have a pretty big ego. A strong coach and not just someone getting paid to get shouted at. His FH and serve need work too. He should have a bigger serve, and he needs serious work on the FH. If he had a bigger serve he wouldn't need to grind as much and would likely do better in BO5.
Mainad
Bionic Poster
Whatever happened to the talk about him and Lendl getting together? I'm guessing it came to nothing as we haven't heard a dickey-bird about it since!
cc0509
Talk Tennis Guru
Shut up already!
You need some arrogance to succeed, no matter what profession you're in. Otherwise, he'll languish in the top 10 for eternity(which wouldn't be a bad career either.)
cc0509
Talk Tennis Guru
No idea. I thought you're on top of those things?
albertobra
Hall of Fame
I agree, and what really surpises me is how his serve is less effective today, say...to one year ago. Zvev had an amazing serve, so to @Meles include him in the "servebot" lot of players. His serve is so average today, it's almost a mistery, or perhaps other player 'exposed' his service motion and became predictable?
zagor
Bionic Poster
He has alway been superior on clay but he still had tight sets, matches etc. Now we're all predicting how many games the opponent will win. This field is comical. Give me back Almagro and Ferrer at this point, they'd challenge current Nadal more.
Rafa.the.Magnificent
G.O.A.T.
Bookmarked! Hitting the jackpot today, thank you @sportmac.
D
Deleted member 756486
Guest
I won’t shut up but you can always ignore me.Shut up already!
You need some arrogance to succeed, no matter what profession you're in. Otherwise, he'll languish in the top 10 for eternity(which wouldn't be a bad career either.)
Yeah, sure but Zverev acts like he’s one of the big dogs when he’s done nothing on the big stage.
cc0509
Talk Tennis Guru
He's won two Masters 1000s at age 20!
But it's true that he really needs to focus on improving at the slams at this point.
Mainad
Bionic Poster
I thought you were?
Seriously, lost track of Lendl's comings and goings after he split with Andy again at the start of the year. As I said, I haven't heard anything more after the initial rumours started circulating about him and Zverev so, either they're playing it close to their chests (which would be typical for Lendl) or it's all just quietly died the death. But let's agree to keep each other posted if either of us hear anything more.
Im(moral) Winner
G.O.A.T.
#22 (with a runner up) He'll tie with Raonic but Milos has won more important points so he stays ahead. #12 if he wins.
http://www.openerarankings.com/Home
cc0509
Talk Tennis Guru
Ugh. There's nothing more boring than a Ferrer-Nadal match or an Almagro-Nadal match but I agree that they fight better, particularly Ferrer. Almagro is a big choker though.
The only guy who could ever really challenge a fit Nadal on a clay court was prime Djokovic. But even though prime Djokovic was the best candidate to challenge Nadal at RG, he came up short when Nadal was fit/healthy/in good form. It's a daunting task. That's why unless Djokovic gets back to as close to his 2016 form as possible, he won't touch Nadal at RG.
As for the players today challenging current Nadal on clay, zzzzzzz. Forget about it. I recorded that Nadal-Dimitrov match and knew Nadal would beat him in straights but I didn't think the scoreline would be that bad!
Needless to say, I won't be watching that match!
Harry_Wild
G.O.A.T.
Nishikori' real play great clay court tennis today in beating Zverev! I think Rafa cannot wait to play Nishikori in the finals!
Winners or Errors
Legend
I know everyone is thinking of the score, but I'm just hoping Nishikori makes it through this tournament without coming up lame. He's just so shoulda, woulda, coulda...
Rafa.the.Magnificent
G.O.A.T.
@cc0509
As for the players today challenging current Nadal on clay, zzzzzzz. Forget about it. I recorded that Nadal-Dimitrov match and knew Nadal would beat him in straights but I didn't think the scoreline would be that bad!
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clayqueen
Talk Tennis Guru
So far, with reaching the final he'll be around #20.
Alba Barragan
Professional
Well, Alex addressed those rumors this week. He said: "He wasn't with me. My fitness trainer Jez Green and he are great friends. I have a good relationship with him, but there haven't been any discussion with him. Maybe in the future that's very possible but not for now." [Source]
It seems Becker also knows something about it, on Twitter a few accounts are reporting he said: "I know Sascha met with Ivan and they talked. But it's a question of timing, maybe also of budget and necessity." I don't have sources of this, most of them are in German and I don't understand it
Mainad
Bionic Poster
Okay, so he'll just get into the top 20 by making the final and get to about #14 if he wins?
Steve0904
Talk Tennis Guru
It doesn't matter anyway. We saw "off Nadal" today and he won 6-4 6-1. And that's BO3. Unless he gets run over by a bus (which I hope doesn't actually happen) he can sleepwalk to the RG title, and this isn't one of those stupid jinxes. I don't believe in them either.
Plamen1234
Hall of Fame
Yes he should. get into Top 20.Dont know whether if he wins he will get to 14 place but he is not winning anyway so it doesnt matter
Steve0904
Talk Tennis Guru
D
Deleted member 756486
Guest
I know fans get paranoid more easily when they are watching their favorite player. (I was a nervous wreck during the Fed-Berdych match at Wimbledon) but Nadal will be fine, he will sweep clay without much trouble imo.
ForumMember
Hall of Fame
yeah.. I also always thought that for his size his serve could be little bit better and FH should be a lot better.
sredna42
Hall of Fame
zverev's ego is fine, you need an attitude to succeed at the elite levels, in any endeavour,
federer had an attitude too at the same age. His temperament will mellow and even out as he grows, it'd be a bad idea to geld him. Tennis needs characters.
I think he needs to play far more attacking tennis from closer to the baseline. I think he is trying to in some ways, he looks to be coming into the net alot more, probably after working on it with his brother more, I just get this vibe that he is getting very frustrated when he thinks he is trying to win with this new approach or that, but it isn't working out, he just drifts back to grinding out rallies, just surrendering the option for initiative to the other player.
Someone above said he needs to refine his serve and fh, and they are right. He could have an Isner serve with his height.
It'd be good for tennis if he got it all together, though he may have corrupted his CPU by spending his formulative years playing grinding ball bashing tennis.
federer had an attitude too at the same age. His temperament will mellow and even out as he grows, it'd be a bad idea to geld him. Tennis needs characters.
I think he needs to play far more attacking tennis from closer to the baseline. I think he is trying to in some ways, he looks to be coming into the net alot more, probably after working on it with his brother more, I just get this vibe that he is getting very frustrated when he thinks he is trying to win with this new approach or that, but it isn't working out, he just drifts back to grinding out rallies, just surrendering the option for initiative to the other player.
Someone above said he needs to refine his serve and fh, and they are right. He could have an Isner serve with his height.
It'd be good for tennis if he got it all together, though he may have corrupted his CPU by spending his formulative years playing grinding ball bashing tennis.
veroniquem
Bionic Poster
But nowadays it’s almost always the opposite that happens.
veroniquem
Bionic Poster
Players do that when they’re a bit tired too. He’s played a truckload of 3 setters this week and finished late yesterday. ITA with your 1st paragraph.
And given his usual results at MC, semi is rather encouraging actually.
Some arrogance not Zverev-sque arrogance. Oh, and Federer only found real success since 2003 when he becams less arrogant.
Also, Edberg and Rafter would have to disagree with the whole "arrogance is necessary" argument.
Other guys like Sampras (whether having inner arrogance or not) opted to simply let the racquet do the talk quietly instead of behaving like a d***.
cc0509
Talk Tennis Guru
I'm not bothered much by Zverev's brattiness. I think he makes up for it because he seems to be pretty dedicated to achieving results. There are other players who are much worse, IMO. Plus, you can't have a tour filled with robots. You have to have some players who express themselves in different ways. I also think he'll grow out of it as he matures. He's only just 21.
Also, who cares what Edberg and Rafter say? Are they self-appointed tennis hall monitors? Edberg and Rafter had to have had some degree of arrogance in order to achieve.
Forehand_Slice
Semi-Pro
Kei beating World No. 3 and 4 back to back... Almost unthinkable for him back in the Big 4 times.
Jumps to 14th in the race and up to World Rank of 22.Defends nothing after Cincinnati, return to the the Top 10 certainly achievable.
Jumps to 14th in the race and up to World Rank of 22.Defends nothing after Cincinnati, return to the the Top 10 certainly achievable.
Dolgopolov85
G.O.A.T.
Still for the clay season per se, would rather see Nishikori do well. Like Djokovic he has a brilliant DTL backhand. Exactly what does Zverev have that could possibly bother Nadal on clay? Zverev can't match Nishi's power, what was he going to do against Nadal anyway except roll over?
Dolgopolov85
G.O.A.T.
I don't think his serve was serve bot level last year either. That was just typical Meles hype. Was it better than this year? Maybe, but as you speculate, it may simply be the tour catching up after he made a splash with two masters titles last year. They are probably also playing more to his forehand realising that it's not quite as offensive as can be and he is probably more comfortable attacking with the backhand. Anyway, not like he was super bad yesterday. It was a closely fought contest with long service games on both guys' serve in the third set. Came down to two bad errors at a critical juncture in the game at 5-4 third set. It's just that people so prematurely crowned Zverev that now losing a tight three setter to Nishikori is seen as a disappointing outcome which it shouldn't be because Nishikori is very strong on clay and had beaten Cilic to get to Zverev.
zagor
Bionic Poster
IIRC Meles started calling him Zedbot because of his ability to handle big servers (against whome he does match-up well despite his Miami F loss to Big John this eyar), not because he was a servebot himself.
But yeah, some of it is just the tour analyzing his game to bits after he announced himself on the scene, a problem many young players face after their breakthrough year of sorts. I do remember reading an article lauding Zverev's improvement regarding 2nd serve (or 2nd serve points won to be more precise) last year:
http://baseline.tennis.com/article/68546/alexander-zverevs-second-serve-making-it-all-happen
In essence, Zverev was top 10 last year in 2nd serve points won, this year he's #30 (so far, it's a smaller sample size obviously). No question, he's getting his serve broken far too often even on clay. He was giving away his serve games at MC this week like they were candies.
In men's tour, unless you have a stable serve game it's hard to contend for the big titles. It's one of Novak's biggest problems currently too.
albertobra
Hall of Fame
Interesting article....
Makes sense to say it's due to his young age and to fall from top 10 to 30 as 2 serve points won says it all. He became insecure on second serve. Many times with DF when wants to push it, we saw this in some important points vs Nishi. And even more times just putting the ball on the other side at slow speed, just inviting Nishy to the party.
Meles
Bionic Poster
Zedbot has been Zedrotting since last Fall. I'm rather amazed that Jez Green and the family haven't sorted out the malady with the serve. I'm pretty sure the velocity was really suffering by the 3rd set with Nishikori. The amazing think is Zverev is winning with an off serve. This is kind of like the illogical Nadal swoon in 2015 and 2016 which was due to his serve weakening with age when it should have become more of an asset. The psychobabble on TTW about Zedrot's attitude is comically off the mark. In fact all other facets of his game are probably improving.
