Most Grand Slams won before turning 20 - sky was the limit for Monica Seles

[Julius Caesar]

Monica Seles 8
Steffi Graff 6
Margaret Court 4
Chris Evert 2
Rafael Nadal 2
Pete Sampras 1
Williams sisters 1
Martina Navratilova 0
Billie Jean King 0
Roger Federer 0
Andre Agassi 0
Novak Djokovic 0

 

[Cupcake]

One of the greatest tragedies in sports. And the guy never spent one day in jail for stabbing Seles.

 

[Julius Caesar]

She was stabbed twice. Once by the deranged guy and another one by her fellow partners at the wta that voted NO to freeze Monica's ranking. Gabby was the only one who didn't oppose to Seles being given a protected #1 ranking after what happened.

 

[Third Serve]

This is still an absolutely mindblowing statistic. Can't quite wrap my head around it.

 

[Julius Caesar]

This is still an absolutely mindblowing statistic. Can't quite wrap my head around it.

In 1992, 19 years old Monica Seles had a match record of 70 wins to only 5 losses

 

[Rafa4LifeEver]

The best teenage woman talent to have ever played tennis.

I feel so sad for her.

 

[Hoi Polloi]

One of the greatest tragedies in sports. And the guy never spent one day in jail for stabbing Seles.

That is a myth.
No idea why this gets repeated again and again.

What‘s next on the plate - “Steffi voted against Seles keeping her #1 ranking“?

 

[Hoi Polloi]

Monica Seles 8
Steffi Graff 6
Margaret Court 4
Chris Evert 2
Rafael Nadal 2
Pete Sampras 1
Williams sisters 1
Martina Navratilova 0
Billie Jean King 0
Roger Federer 0
Andre Agassi 0
Novak Djokovic 0

Hingis leads the list for most slams at age 16, 17 and 18.
But you calling Graf “Graff“ shows your true colors.

 

[Hoi Polloi]

She was stabbed twice. Once by the deranged guy and another one by her fellow partners at the wta that voted NO to freeze Monica's ranking. Gabby was the only one who didn't oppose to Seles being given a protected #1 ranking after what happened.

Ah, what about Steffi?
Come on, say it, spread the lie…

 

[Hoi Polloi]

In 1992, 19 years old Monica Seles had a match record of 70 wins to only 5 losses

In 1983 Navratilova had a match record of 86-1.
And in 1989 Graf one of 86-2.
Worlds apart….

 

[TripleATeam]

Yeah, biggest what-if in tennis by a long shot.

 

[mahatma]

30 years to this and still it feels so wrong - what happened.

 

[Julius Caesar]

Ah, what about Steffi?
Come on, say it, spread the lie…

McCook Daily Gazette - Google News Archive Search

6th paragraph

 

[BeatlesFan]

Monica Seles 8
Steffi Graff 6
Margaret Court 4
Chris Evert 2
Rafael Nadal 2
Pete Sampras 1
Williams sisters 1
Martina Navratilova 0
Billie Jean King 0
Roger Federer 0
Andre Agassi 0
Novak Djokovic 0

This is leaving out Chang, Becker, Wilander and Borg. Both Boris and Mats won 2 slams in their teens.

 

[Hoi Polloi]

McCook Daily Gazette - Google News Archive Search

6th paragraph

There is nothing about Steffi voting against Seles keeping her #1 ranking in May 1993.
Which is a nasty lie repeated again and again by certain Seles fans (says a lot about their character).

However there is something about Seles‘s ranking after her return in summer 1995 in that article. Steffi „according to a source close to the tour“ (yeah…. ) may have objected to a modus for Seles‘s ranking that probably would have relegated Steffi to #2 very fast.
So the #1 co-ranking was invented.
You didn‘t like that?

 

[WeekendTennisHack]

Would have been GOAT for sure. Imagine starting the decade age 20-30 with 8 slams already in your pocket. If she conservatively won an avg of 1.5 slams per year, that's 23 there already.

 

[TearTheRoofOff]

Love the fact that the 0s are in order.

 

[ibbi]

Martina Hingis - 5
Mo Connolly - 9

Women win young, that's what they do and always have done. Like, there is a very long list of women who were multiple-time champions before 20. She was the best of them in the Open era, but success young is no guarantee at all of success later.

 

[big ted]

The WTA suggested that Seles's No. 1 ranking be preserved due to her absence from the stabbing, but the ranking was ultimately not preserved.[39] According to Seles's autobiography, all active tour players opposed the idea of preserving her number one ranking, except Gabriela Sabatini who abstained, voting neither yes or no.[40][41] A vote was held at a tournament in Rome in 1993, and 16 of the 17 top players who voted rejected the proposal – Graf did not participate in the tournament and was thus absent from voting. Of those who did vote, only Sabatini did not reject the idea of freezing Seles's ranking until her return, but she did abstain.[42] Seles did not play tennis for two years and suffered from depression as well as an eating disorder as a result of the attack.[30]

 

[big ted]

i hope i dont sound too non-sympathetic but i think seles could have and should have come back sooner than the 2 years off she took

 

[Tennfan123]

One of the most exciting periods in tennis.

 

[TripleATeam]

i hope i dont sound too non-sympathetic but i think seles could have and should have come back sooner than the 2 years off she took

She got stabbed, man. That tears muscles and causes permanent damage, let alone the psychological issues that come with playing a tournament and... being stabbed.

 

[big ted]

She got stabbed, man. That tears muscles and causes permanent damage, let alone the psychological issues that come with playing a tournament and... being stabbed.

it doesnt take 2 years to heal that so i assume her reasons were psychological.
kvitova got stabbed multiple times in the hand from an intruder and played 6 months later

 

[ibbi]

She got stabbed, man. That tears muscles and causes permanent damage, let alone the psychological issues that come with playing a tournament and... being stabbed.

She didn't tear any muscles, I'm pretty sure she was physically good to come back within a couple of months. The significant issues were entirely psychological.

 

[mike danny]

Monica Seles 8
Steffi Graff 6
Margaret Court 4
Chris Evert 2
Rafael Nadal 2
Pete Sampras 1
Williams sisters 1
Martina Navratilova 0
Billie Jean King 0
Roger Federer 0
Andre Agassi 0
Novak Djokovic 0

Nadal won 1 major before turning 20, not 2.

 

[Sampras-Bruguera 1993]

We'll never know. She could have gotten injured, went into a crazy depression like alot of women do, ... Who knows. Safin looked like the "Next Sampras" at around 20.. Didn't turn out too well. LOL.. Borg looked amazing too until Mac came along and demolished him.. Winning Longevity is rare in tennis

 

[martinezownsclay]

Maureen Connolly won 9. So not most slams as a teenager.

It is impressive but best at a certain age never means anything.

HIngis had the most slams in history before turning 18 and before turning 17.

Capriati was the most successful 14 and 15 year old in history.

Navratilova had less slams than DAVENPORT when both turned 25.

So yeah moving on.

 

[martinezownsclay]

She was stabbed twice. Once by the deranged guy and another one by her fellow partners at the wta that voted NO to freeze Monica's ranking. Gabby was the only one who didn't oppose to Seles being given a protected #1 ranking after what happened.

They didn't freeze it since no timeline was given. If it was something like "frozen for 6 months then points begin to come off" maybe some would have voted yes. The proposal as it was, when it was not even sure when she would return, or if she would, was absurd and rightly voted against by all the women, even some of her best friends like Navratilova and Capriati. Imagine if Seles never returned to tennis, she would still be ranked #1 today due to the frozen rankings, LOL! Then again I am sure some Seles fans (the nutty bunch they are) would see nothing wrong with that.

 

[Hoi Polloi]

Martina Hingis - 5
Mo Connolly - 9

Women win young, that's what they do and always have done. Like, there is a very long list of women who were multiple-time champions before 20. She was the best of them in the Open era, but success young is no guarantee at all of success later.

Connolly, Austin, Hingis, Seles won a combined 24 slams as teenagers.
But only 1 later (Seles, AO 96 - winning only because Graf wasn‘t able to compete).
Says it all.

 

[BauerAlmeida]

The reason Seles took so long to come back was mostly psychological, more than physical. The injury itself wasn't too big, but it's impossible to know how would others do in the same situation. Some players never return to their best from a normal injury, imagine from getting stabbed on court...

Unfortunately, we'll never know how her career would have gone.

We'll never know. She could have gotten injured, went into a crazy depression like alot of women do, ... Who knows. Safin looked like the "Next Sampras" at around 20.. Didn't turn out too well. LOL..

Didn't turn out too bad either. 99.99% of players would like to have 2 slams beatings GOATs in the way, World #1, 5 M1000, etc.

 

[Sampras-Bruguera 1993]

The reason Seles took so long to come back was mostly psychological, more than physical. The injury itself wasn't too big, but it's impossible to know how would others do in the same situation. Some players never return to their best from a normal injury, imagine from getting stabbed on court...

Unfortunately, we'll never know how her career would have go on.




Didn't turn out too bad either. 99.99% of players would like to have 2 slams beatings GOATs in the way, World #1, 5 M1000, etc.

For what was predicted of him and his talent . it was a pretty rubbish career for Marat. 2 slams? Dude should have had 9-10 minium. At least something similiar to Agassi/Connors/Lendl

 

[FrontHeadlock]

The thing about Seles is that when she DID come back, she reached the final of the USO and then won the AO, but her consistency and level wasn't there, which suggests that she probably was due for a drop off anyway.

 

[CHillTennis]

Borg won two grand slam titles before the age of 20. So did Boris Becker.

 

[zvelf]

Maureen Connolly won 9. So not most slams as a teenager.

It is impressive but best at a certain age never means anything.

HIngis had the most slams in history before turning 18 and before turning 17.

Capriati was the most successful 14 and 15 year old in history.

Navratilova had less slams than DAVENPORT when both turned 25.

So yeah moving on.

Your examples aren't very good. Hingis succumbed to injuries that derailed her singles career. Capriati had psychological issues, got arrested, and didn't play full-time for 5 of her prime years.

 

[zvelf]

The thing about Seles is that when she DID come back, she reached the final of the USO and then won the AO, but her consistency and level wasn't there, which suggests that she probably was due for a drop off anyway.

But part of the reason for her drop-off was that she was never the same after the stabbing. Mental issues were clearly the reason she took so much time off, and her mental game clearly suffered after her return. But even if she were going to decline in the late 90s, she had won 8 of the last 9 majors she played before the stabbing at age 19. She didn't just lose any 2-1/2 years of her career but 2-1/2 years at her peak.

 

[martinezownsclay]

Your examples aren't very good. Hingis succumbed to injuries that derailed her singles career. Capriati had psychological issues, got arrested, and didn't play full-time for 5 of her prime years.

Oh please. Hingis was done winning slams at that point, injury or not. Anyone who followed tennis back then knows it. 2002 Australian Open (she had already not won a slam for 3 whole years at that point) and not closing that out, was curtains for her, especialy with Serena's peak about to begin. The Hingis example is very good since her injuries which partly contributed to her first retirement had virtually nothing to do with her slam winning slowing down/ending.

Capriati had psychological issues, yes you are right there. However she was also never destined to be even half as good as her potential at 13-15 implied, that is still clear.

 

[Azure]

Maureen Connolly won 9. So not most slams as a teenager.

It is impressive but best at a certain age never means anything.

HIngis had the most slams in history before turning 18 and before turning 17.

Capriati was the most successful 14 and 15 year old in history.

Navratilova had less slams than DAVENPORT when both turned 25.

So yeah moving on.

Or she could have gone on to be like Rafa in the women’s sport winning well into her late 20’s too. We will never know unfortunately

 

[buscemi]

I'd also add that Seles didn't turn 20 until December 2, 1993. So, she still had 3 more Majors to play before turning 20 if not for the stabbing.

 

[buscemi]

The thing about Seles is that when she DID come back, she reached the final of the USO and then won the AO, but her consistency and level wasn't there, which suggests that she probably was due for a drop off anyway.

Sorry, but that doesn't follow. A version of Seles who was traumatized by being stabbed on court and was out of the game for 2+ years was inconsistent and had dips in level. But that in no way tells us she was due for a dropoff if she weren't stabbed. Instead, she was looking better than ever and clearly improving as a 19 year-old in 1993 when she was stabbed.

 

[Azure]

The thing about Seles is that when she DID come back, she reached the final of the USO and then won the AO, but her consistency and level wasn't there, which suggests that she probably was due for a drop off anyway.

Hard disagree. There is no way of knowing if her drop in performance was because of self doubt/fear or not.

 

[zvelf]

Oh please. Hingis was done winning slams at that point, injury or not. Anyone who followed tennis back then knows it. 2002 Australian Open (she had already not won a slam for 3 whole years at that point) and not closing that out, was curtains for her, especialy with Serena's peak about to begin. The Hingis example is very good since her injuries which partly contributed to her first retirement had virtually nothing to do with her slam winning slowing down/ending.

Assertion is not proof. Even when Hingis wasn't winning majors in 2000-2002, she made 3 major finals and 4 major semifinals out of 10 played including beating Serena and Venus back-to-back. She retired at age 22! There's no way you nor anyone else could know for certain that she could never win another major if she were healthy.

Capriati had psychological issues, yes you are right there. However she was also never destined to be even half as good as her potential at 13-15 implied, that is still clear.

That is not clear at all. There's no way whatsoever to know how much better she would have been had the pressure not broken her. Capriati at her best was a monster. She went 7-10 against peak Serena and won 3 majors in one of the toughest eras in women's tennis with not a single easy draw among those 3 wins.

 

[D.Nalby12]

Biggest what if story in Tennis.

 

[roysid]

She was stabbed twice. Once by the deranged guy and another one by her fellow partners at the wta that voted NO to freeze Monica's ranking. Gabby was the only one who didn't oppose to Seles being given a protected #1 ranking after what happened.

Do rankings matter that much. Its the tournament and slam wins that were missed forever.

I only wish that she wasn't affected that much mentally after that. She could have come that year only stronger than ever

 

[Hoi Polloi]

But part of the reason for her drop-off was that she was never the same after the stabbing. Mental issues were clearly the reason she took so much time off, and her mental game clearly suffered after her return. But even if she were going to decline in the late 90s, she had won 8 of the last 9 majors she played before the stabbing at age 19. She didn't just lose any 2-1/2 years of her career but 2-1/2 years at her peak.

The first 15 months after her return were great, comparable to pre-stabbing.
The difference was that Seles had to play Steffi in two USO finals. A Steffi who was far better in those years than in the early 90s.
Only from late 1996 Seles‘s form wen down, due to injuries and probably also because of her dad dying.
The “stabbing trauma theory“ was developed only then.

 

[buscemi]

The first 15 months after her return were great, comparable to pre-stabbing.
The difference was that Seles had to play Steffi in two USO finals. A Steffi who was far better in those years than in the early 90s.
Only from late 1996 Seles‘s form wen down, due to injuries and probably also because of her dad dying.
The “stabbing trauma theory“ was developed only then.

From October 1990-May 1993 (stabbing), Seles made the final of every tournament she played except the 1992 Lipton, winning every YEC, Australian Open, French Open, and U.S. Open. Plus, she made the 1992 Wimbledon final.

In her first year back after the stabbing, she lost to Majoli in the QF of Tokyo, Novotna in the QF of the French Open, Studenikova in the second round of Wimbledon, and Novotna in the QF of Atlanta. That's four pre-finals losses in 12 months after the stabbing vs. one pre-finals loss in the 31 months before the stabbing.

 

[abmk]

Connolly, Austin, Hingis, Seles won a combined 24 slams as teenagers.
But only 1 later (Seles, AO 96 - winning only because Graf wasn‘t able to compete).
Says it all.

Yes,
1. horse-riding accident caused serious injury to Connolly ending her career. She had won 9/9 slams she had played prior to that.
2. Seles was stabbed as she was hitting her peak

says it all.

 

[abmk]

Oh please. Hingis was done winning slams at that point, injury or not. Anyone who followed tennis back then knows it. 2002 Australian Open (she had already not won a slam for 3 whole years at that point) and not closing that out, was curtains for her, especialy with Serena's peak about to begin. The Hingis example is very good since her injuries which partly contributed to her first retirement had virtually nothing to do with her slam winning slowing down/ending.

Capriati had psychological issues, yes you are right there. However she was also never destined to be even half as good as her potential at 13-15 implied, that is still clear.

Hingis could have easily won AO 2002, no?
In the AO 2002 final,
Hingis led by a set and 4–0 and had four match points but lost in three sets.

 

[Hoi Polloi]

Yes,
1. horse-riding accident caused serious injury to Connolly ending her career. She had won 9/9 slams she had played prior to that.
2. Seles was stabbed as she was hitting her peak

says it all.

You see, injuries can come in a lot of different ways.
Plus I think that without the stabbing Seles‘ shoulder problems would have started in mid-94 and not in late 96.

BTW, it is a myth that Connolly could not have returned to the tour after her injury had healed. But she had moved on. Tennis was just an expensive amateur sport in her time.

 

[abmk]

You see, injuries can come in a lot of different ways.
Plus I think that without the stabbing Seles‘ shoulder problems would have started in mid-94 and not in late 96.

BTW, it is a myth that Connolly could not have returned to the tour after her injury had healed. But she had moved on. Tennis was just an expensive amateur sport in her time.

These aren't run of the mill injuries. Both would've won multiple slams if not for those unfortunate incidents. they were that good that's the point. how much is not possible to accurately answer. Lets just say some more.

Unless you want to insult Graf's greatest rival (&therefore Graf indirectly) by saying she couldn't have won more than 1 slam after turning 20 if not for the stabbing.

 

[Born_to_slice]

You see, injuries can come in a lot of different ways.
Plus I think that without the stabbing Seles‘ shoulder problems would have started in mid-94 and not in late 96.

Nah, thinking has nothing to do with it.